5600k and 3200k flouro websites.

[Neil Rowe]

heres some links to sites where you can buy 5600k and 3200k flourescents. just thought i would share the ones i know of to date.

http://shop.barbizon.com/

http://www.atlaslightingsupply.com/fullspectrum.html

http://lightbulbguy.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?14X323865

https://secure.tcinternet.net/buylighting/shoppingcart/f40t12fullspectrum.html

## Note : this next site also sells compact flouros in 56k (5550k)for replacing practicals!!! and after ordering some bulbs from here(T8- 4'- 5550k- 93CRI- 2960 Lumens!!), i found out that the engineer for the company is actually the same guy who invented the "KINO-FLO" brand of lighting.. AWSOME!!!
http://www.full-spectrum-light.com/s_lightbulbs.cfm

theres also new t12 electronic ballasts availabe which use less energy, and are super quiet with no flicker at all. *heres one set that i like for building your own kits. it takes t8 or t12 , but the t12 bulbs in 56k are generally easier to find, and cheaper..!!

http://www.esuweb.com/cardfile.asp?ItemNumber=AF917&IDProductRelationshi p=29

[Phil]

## Note : this next site also sells compact flouros in 56k (5550k)for replacing practicals!!! AWSOME
http://www.full-spectrum-light.com/s_lightbulbs.cfm


whats your feeling towards these? sounds like a good idea. should i buy a couple?

[Neil Rowe]

..they are just very very usefull if you dont want to mix color temps in a scene, and you need to replace you practical bulbs with somthing that outputs alot of light, but wont start the fixture on fire.. florescents as you know run very cool. you can even grab the bulb after its been on a while. so you can pop these into your practical sockets, and not worry about mixing color temps, and output alot more light if you want to. i think they are always good to have on hand..if not just to supplement some actual sunlight indoors by placing them just offscreen.

[Kandinsky]

Hey Iam, i was shopping fluorescents last week here in quebec city in places such as Home Depot and Wallmart. I don't have a very deep knowledge in lighting and I didn't have much success, of course i found some 5000k "daylight" tubes with a CRI of 92, which is very good, but it's only 40 watts and something like 2000 lumens! I am looking for tubes that are going to be able to serve as a key light, I would have needed 4-6 of those to do so !

Maybe you could give me a few advices on this matter. Thank you.

[Neil Rowe]

..well, i actually think you would be suprised at how much light just 2 4' 40 watt florous will put out .. its enough light when used within an 8 foot distance to the subject (unless you prefer the bright as the sun type lighting setups). but yes, i would reccomend just buying a 4 bank fixture, or 2 of the 2 banks for a larger scene. but when using 4' florous you almost really only need them for key and fill lighting, especially if you have 2 of the 2 banks. the light is so soft that it wraps around everything just like indirect sunlight on a cloudy day. so alot of time you need very little or no fill at all. i would suggest just ordering sme of the 56k bulbs from the above links, and deciding whether you want to go with t12 bulbs, and pay 50.00+ for the fixture with nice electronic ballasts, and 7 bucks a bulb... or you can buy the T8 fixture for 8 bucks with an electronic ballast, but youll pay like 15.00 per bulb. the T8's are also more energy efficient, and you can run more off a generator. at any rate, what you should do is experiment first to see how much light you will need. if you can find a place with a single flourescent fixture, with 2-4 bulbs, take your cam there, and test out your exposure, and light levels, one 4 bank is alot of light, a 2 bank is often sufficient for any smaller scene like a small bedroom or bathroom or somthing in addition to any practicals, or sunlight. 2 of the 2 banks is nice all around, or 3 of the 2 banks is really nice. i wouldnt use it as a main light for any night scene unless it was supposed to be outside.. the light is way too soft for my taste for "dark" interior scenes. but again, just do some testing under a 2 or 4 bank (you can take out the outer 2 bulbs in a 4 bank, and the inner 2 will still run, so you can just use that for testing). i think youll find that 4 bulbs will do most jobs, and 6 to 8 has got your soft lighting covered for even greenscreen type stuff.

[Phil]

thanks for the info!

[Zoomforce]

do those 56k lightbulbs flickker? has anyone bought them?

[Terry_Lasater]

Here are a few more links for fluorescents.

http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/

http://www.buylighting.com/full-spectrum-lightbulbs.htm?source=google&campaign=12&group=1

http://rewci.com/ultraluxlamps.html

http://www.solux.net/

[Kandinsky]

Thanks for the info Iam. I had 2 banks of 2 bulbs of 40 watts, but with the tests i've made it wasn't satisfying. I was trying to start from no light at all in a bedroom and see if a key light like this would work, but everything looked quite dark. So i made my own conclusions and told myself that maybe it wasn't the best choice for key lighting, but it's definitely the cheapest and i would love to find a way to make this work. Maybe with higher quality bulbs, those i had were "home depot's" Phillips 40 watts - 92 cri - 5000k, looked nice but only 1500-2000 lumens. It claimed to be "daylight" types of fluos, so i figured it work fine.

I also have a few questions concerning a few terms im not familiar with. The difference between T8, T12, etc? Is it just the diameter of the bulb? And also what are the advantages of an electronic ballast vs a magnetic one?

Most of the links from the US do not ship to Canada, maybe Jarred you would know an alternate solution for canadians who wants to buy fixtures/ballasts/bulbs ? ;D

Thanks alot guys.

[Neil Rowe]

any flourescent bulbs will flicker or not soley pending the quality of the ballast your using (or in the event the bulb is bad), if your using a T8 bulb, they all use electronic ballasts, which have 0 flicker, and virtually 0 hum noise. they are ultra quiet. you cant really hear them unless you get very very close, and are very still. they do make electronic ballasts for t12 bulbs now too, but t12s use more energy, and put out the same or less light..so whats the point.. buying the electronic ballast for them is also more expensive.. they were made before electronic ballasts existed, and so the ballasts have been made to retrofit thier fixtures..t8's are the way to go . magnetic ballasts vary in quality too. but they all hum to some degree.. some are very loud. and the good ones wont flicker, but cheap ones will. again, if you go with a t8 setup, you never have to worry about either of these things unless a bulb goes bad. t8 electronic ballasts are also generally smaller, and only weigh about 1/4 of the wieght of a magnetic. and yes, t8 bulbs are smaller in diameter.

now the links i put up are all for either 56k (5500-5600) or 3200k bulbs they are not just "daylight" bulbs, as most daylight bulbs are between 5000 to 5250k and wont really be white balanced with your 5600k preset. which is the whole point of using the 56k color temp. they will however match most daylight, because daylight isnt a set 56k, it varys pending region, and time of day.. between 5000 - 12000k pending where you are and the time of day. its quite obvios that sunset isnt the same color temp as noon, so it varies alot no matter where you are. but again using exactly 56k or 3200k allows you to be sure of your color temp being consistant with your white balance preset, and you wont have to check your whites all the time.

now, im really suprised that you didnt find 4 4 foot 40 watt bulbs to be sufficient enough light for you. i have a room in my place that only has 2 of them, and i have to iris down , or face alot of overexposure.. now granted thats cuase i like to shoot wide open, but dont we all..(to get that shallow DOF) granted if your walls in the room are dark , and absorb light, it wont be as bright, but remember that with flouros, you can always put the fixture as close to the talent as the shot allows if you want, because they are not hot. but again i would recommend at least 4 bulbs for most soft stuff, and 6-8 will cover almost anything.. the only bad thing about the flouros, is that they dont throw light very far.. its not a focused beam. its very soft, and diffused, so it wont travel very far. when using soft lights. you need to generally be closer with the light than you would with a hard light by far. but as cheap as they are, you can buy alot of them and go to town if you need more light.

[Neil Rowe]

ok..this is hilarious.. after looking far and wide for a cheap fixture that can handle t12 bulbs on an electronic ballast, out of all places, i find it at ...

wal mart.

they carry a "lights of america" brand fixture that will run 2 4' T12s OR! T8s off an electronic ballast.. only 14.00 . its hard enough finding electronic ballasts for t12s in th first place for under 40.00 but to find it for 14.00 AND! have the ability to run t12s or t8s is just outstanding.. WAL MART.. you have truley made a difference..lol

[Terry_Lasater]

That cute li'l smileyface just keeps rollin' back the prices... ;)

[Neil Rowe]

yeah .. and he gest to just fly around the store dressed up like action hereos , and busting stuff up... must be nice

[Kandinsky]

Thank you very much for the detailed info Iam, i really appreciate. I just found some T12 around here at 5700k, 92 CRI, something like 2900 lumens. It Looks almost like something perfect for what i need, i couldn't find any decent T8s tubes or electronic T12 ballasts (the "kind of" fluorescent specialist around here said that it didnt exist hehe)...

But if i buy high quality magnetic T12 ballasts, i've heard that it should also work fine. What do you guys think about this solution?

[testyza33]

an exact model/make on those electronic ballasts from LIGHTS OF AMERICA would be appreciate, local walmart doesn't have them, and couldn't find them at lightsofamerica.com or using domain only search for thanks

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/wiring/msg0321302315127.html
references the fixtures being optimize for the more effecient t8 bulbs...

anyone with a walmart and these ought to check 'em out with the bulbs 93cri ~3000lumens bulbs iamloser referenced above.. walmart lets you return stuff forever.....later


for reference, kino flos themselves for daylight are 5500k, 40 watts and 2330 lumens, 95 CRI
http://www.kinoflo.com/sales_catalog_2004/lamps/001_lmp/truematch.html

[Neil Rowe]

a high quality magnetic ballast fixture should work fine, but your using more energy.. waiting longer for thr bulb to reach its full luminance, and could possibly deal with some hum or flicker on occasion still pending your power scource. i would test it out if possible. but t12 electronic ballasts do exist.. in large quantities.. in fact i posted a link to one above. and that one runs t12's or t8 too. and its for a fish tank.. lol but they do make them for any fixture. ..

anyway, its just a generic Lights of America shoplight with a stainless steel backing .. heres all i could find at thier site:

http://www.lightsofamerica.com/sl.htm

and that doesnt even say it has an electronic ballast, or that it can run t8s.. ill try to post the info here later when i can look at the box.

[testyza33]

i don't get it, the forums says TODAY at 5:55am, iamloser replied to this topic, but i don't see anything, posting this to see if shows up...now it did, and NO, there was no PAGE 2 link for me... hehee, keeping this here for now, strange, willk remove it later

might as well add this...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=ShowProduct&index=Y&kw=KIFF200FS&Q=&O=&sku= 258722

if you do it yourself, it almost looks like you could add your ow * *ectronic ballasts/fixtures inside there..

in addition found:
CRI 98: Crompton LA29347, Osram Dulux/12, Philips F32T8/TL950, Kino Flo
K55 482-S
CRI 95: GE Cinema 55, Philips 'TL'D 36W /950, DuroTest Vita-Lite Supreme
http://www.gelighting.com/na/downloads/cinema32_55_usa_en.pdf

can't find where to buy the ge 55's looking for the rest now

[Neil Rowe]

hey it shows up now.. :P

[Neil Rowe]

heres a pic of the lights of america fixture, it is stainless steel, and only weighs about 2 or so pounds. it wont run t12s quite as bright as *it will t8s of course due to the power consumption required by t12s, but blah blah heres the link

http://www.zoomforce.com/dvxuser/photos/images/134153313.jpg

[ruester]

Well, here may be an annoying newbie post, but here it goes:
To round out a decent , albeit, minimal (low budget) lighting package, What should I consider in flourescents for lighting (more specific the better)

I see talk of buying from Wal Mart (which would, of course, be great for me!) Should I get 2 four banks, and what other equipment do I need for them to give me light without flicker or greenish sickness (BTW I'm not going for any crazy lighting looks, just natural daylight or indoor night stuff, no fancy dream sequences and stuff) Thanks alot, oh and feel free to assume I know nothing (which isn't far from what my friends say) :-/

[magicdavek]

Does it make sense to pop some of those 65watt fluoros (300 watt incadescent equivalent) from a couple of those sites you mentioned into $15 photoflood reflectors with sockets, mount them on stands, and use them like traditional lighting indoors during the daytime? (Of course do manual white balance, maybe add an umbrella, etc).

[Terry_Lasater]

Yup, I do it.

[testyza33]

lowes has the lights of america available online, the model number is 8055ss
for the record, lights of america has the worst customer service on earth, emailed back and forth for awhile till they responded with the info, because their site doesn't contain it...

*** anyone have success using these or other models "cheapo electronic ballasts" *when shooting at 24p... or happen to know if the ballasts operate at 25khz or 60khz?
if you had success, and do not know if it's 25khz/60khz what was your shutter speed?
(from what i could find all electronic ballasts are 25khz, which makes them flicker free.... just want to verify this with users)

later gaters :-]

[Neil Rowe]

..if i remember correctly the fixtures im using run between 50-60 hz with the electronic ballasts.. but no flicker at all. the hum is so quiet you have to stick your head in the fixture to hear it, and just one of the 2 banks comined with the 56k (5550k) t8 3000 lumen bulbs im using is well enough to use as a soft key light . with 4 bulbs running. i have to throw nds on. shooting with 1/48th shutter in 24p.

[testyza33]

thanks for the getback, actually found a 8055 ss lights of america fixture at a different walmart.... this one hums quite loudly, seems like just another fixture
however, the box was obviously a return, had tape on it and everything

again,maybe it's a defective product, or aged

if you're doing music videos, or sound is not really vital...definitely usable,

someone picked me up another ballast, will have a review tomorrow :)

don't forget real kino-flo t12's will work in these ballasts....

[Everdene]

Just wanted to throw in that I've been using that same light fixture IAL found for a couple of months. Bought it at Lowes for $14. The bulbs I'm using are 5000k Sun Sticks (not always great when mixed with incandescents), but awesome when there's a little bit of daylight coming in a window). The Sun Sticks (Sylvania?) have a CRI of about 92. I've loved the slight warming they give to the 5600k daylight color balance setting.

What do I like about those Lights of America fixtures? They look nice on a light stand. I like the fact that they don't look much like a shop light. I hang them off the stand from one of their chains or use bungie cords to help with the setup. It's also easy to throw one on a chair next to someone being interviewed.

What do I dislike? I don't think I would start with this fixture if I wanted to add a new balast or something because there aren't any screws or easy ways to take it apart. Also, the electronic balasts do hum quite a bit. The hum isn't bad for location work (you probably won't notice with a small amount of ambient noise), especially if you stuff a sock or muffle in the right place on the fixture, but I wouldn't use them in a studio and a your sound guy (if you have one) might not like them. But hey, at less than $30 (fixture and bulbs) I have great 5000k soft lighting.

I'm currently looking for some lights to compliment this fixture with the 5000k sun sticks, to brighten up a room, add fill, etc. I've been trying to find those fluorescent fluorex work lights that run at about 6000k, but haven't seen them around for a while. Anyone use those? They're made by lights of america, too.

[Neil Rowe]

i use them with the 3000 lumen 56k t8 bulbs. they didnt hum at first, and then started to, but still dont do it all the time.. but like you said.. i dont really notice. .. untill this mon i was in a small bathroom with them.. then i could hear it ambiently, but i was shooting *mit sound anyway. but it *wouldve annoyed me a little *if i was trying to do important dialog or anything. it wasnt loud enought o make them unuseable, but just loud enough to make it annoy me that it was there. it seems to vary based on what type of bulbs im running as well. im looking at other fixtures to put the bulbs in for close quarter lighting and dialog like that. cause when the light is close to the mic in a small environment like that bathroom it woul be nice to have a quieter ballast. but for everything else theyve worked fine so far.. so lightweight.. like 1or 2 lbs or somthing probably so i hang them from whatever i want. with the hooks and chains they come with..

[Everdene]

Yeah, IAL, you just reminded me of the other thing I like about them. They are lighter weight than most of the other shop lights I thought about buying. That was a huge plus for me.

And, like you said, I bet these LOA shop lights don't hum much with the T8 lights in them. I hadn't thought of that. It's probably my T12 Sun Sticks that are causing them to hum louder than most people report. Hmm. Maybe I should try to find some high CRI T8 lights. And maybe if I get some 3000k T8 lights I'll be able to use practicals or my Halogen lights with this fixture easier (without the color temp problems I have between my Sun Sticks and practicals). And if the fixture doesn't hum much with T8 bulbs, I'll probably buy another one, because besides the hum I like them a lot.

Back to Lowes for some T8 bulbs!

[magicdavek]

I have the LOA work light I got from them online (see color temperature and worklights thread in this section) for about $35. It has one funny looking bulb - not the long fluoro bulbs most people think of.

Anyway, no hum. 300 watts equivalent (65 watt actual draw). (The box says 500 watt equivalent, but someone on this site did a test and it is closer to 300). 6500K. It is closer to sunlight at other times in the day other than high noon clear sky (which is 5600K).

[magicdavek]

Okay, I got two of the daylight balanced 5000K 65 watt (300 watt equivalent) fluoros (at $28 a pop). Like everything else under the control of Murphy's Law, my excitement was turned to dissapointment to find that they won't fit in my reflectors! I take off the reflector dishes around the socket and it fits, but the light is not directional at all, and not suitable for the use I want. I guess I have to try some other reflector dishes.

Update - I found a solution. For $2 at the hardware store, find those socket extenders (I don't know the proper name) which you put in a socket which has electric sockets on the side, you know the kind you put in an overhead light socket in the basement so you can run a power cord to something else. Place that in the light socket of the traditional photoflood reflector and it extends it far enough so these huge fluoros fit in the reflector.

[magicdavek]

I've also purchased a big, collapsible reflector (not the dishes I just referred to, but an actual reflector designed to reflect existing light). The nice part of this is that matching color temperature is not an issue because it reflects existing light, it doesn't get hot (like halogens), it reflects very well (it should, I paid $60 for it!), there are no cords to trip over, is appropriate indoors and outdoors, assists with indoor shooting during the day, and takes only a second to position and reposition to get a shot (assuming a person is operating it, and it's not mounted on a boom). The downside is getting the right distance relative to the field of view in the shot, not having control of where the sun is (or isn't) at any given moment, and it may require an extra person to operate (unless you want to buy a holder for it to mount on a stand - I have five kids, roughly translated as five potential reflector holders).

Overall, I feel like this will be an very important addition to my lighting possibilities (I've been playing with it for the last couple of days - nothing on tape yet).

[Terry_Lasater]

... I'll probably buy another one, because besides the hum I like them a lot.

Back to Lowes for some T8 bulbs!


Did you find any high CRI T8s at Lowe's?

[Everdene]

The best I could find is 86 CRI Philips T8 bulbs at Home Depot (the Lowe's around my place only had one generic T8 bulb). Anyway, these Home Depot T8 bulbs are quite bright, brighter that the T12's I've used, even though they are only 30 watts. They have nice color. They come in 5000k and 3000k. The 3000k match nicely with halogens and the 5000k work well with sunlight coming in from the outside.

My fixture (that LOA shop light) still hums a little too much, even with the T8 bulbs. No change on the hum between the T8 and T12 bulbs.

[Reidwriter]

Okay, I'm finally gearing up to build my own floros and have absorbed a lot of the info here.
Next question: For those with floro panels, how are you mounting them? Are you using C-stands or some other variation.

I want to be able to take them to locations (not run and gun stuff of course) but I want them to be at least marginally portable.

Or is there a guerrilla version of the c-stand that I'm overlooking.

[magicdavek]

I did a little field test with the $35 Lights Over America fluoro work light. I had my DVX hooked up to my TV in our family room. In the afternoon, that room gets only minimal light from the sun because it faces east. I set up that light to come from the direction of the window into the room on one of my kids sitting on the couch. Wow, my family members who typically yawn while I do video work were quite impressed that it looked like sunshine coming in the window! (I white balanced, of course). I would say that these lights are the real thing. Also, I tested two other daylight balanced fluoros. They had a very similar effect, once white balance occured. It was so convincing that I question why I'd ever pay more than that to create that effect (consider that a single HMI light could cost $1,000 to $4,000 or more). Even in the 5600K preset, they looked pretty good.

One of the two other fluoros just mentioned was from:
http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/compact.htm. I used the 65w (300 watt equivalent), which doesn't fit in the standard photoflood reflectors - you need to get a socket adapter/extender at your local hardware store in order to fit it in the reflector socket. The third fluro was a 100 watt equivalent (24 actual watts) from Samigon which I got from a local photo store for $15. Inside a photoflood reflector, this puts out fairly well, especially if it is a close up shot and you can get fairly close to the actor. The other two worked from across the room (both 300 watt equivalent).

I was left with the impression that these compact work lights and fluro bulbs (as opposed to getting into the long fluoro tubes and ballasts, etc.) can really do the job to brighted up indoor shots during daylight. I'm impressed.

The CFI rating on the Lights Over America was not as high as the other two, but all seemed to work pretty well. I didn't notice much difference in color, but I wasn't watching for that - nothing obvious jumped out at me. I spent a lot of time investigating the daylight balanced fluoros, and bought three different types, and it was only this past weekend I gave them a real test on a NTSC monitor/TV, and I have to say, they performed better than I was even expecting.

[matthewd5]

ok how about really small/short fluorescents??

i found these Gyoury bulbs on b&h that are like a foot or less long and they would be great for some in-car shots i have coming up but i don't know squat about ballasts

these bulbs come in 3200k and 5600k with an "amphenol" connector, but i have to figure out where to get a small ballast for the application.

plus i need to run it off of a 12v dc / ac invertor.

matthew

[Jim Brennan]

A couple of things:

I use my halogen work lamp stands for a lot of stuff. They aren't as tall as a good C-stand, but I paid 15 bucks a piece for them (with the halogen head), they are pretty solid and collapse small, and I'm pretty sure you could figure a way to hook up a fluoro to it fairly easily. Which is something I'd like to test if I can get another recommendation for an inexpensive 4' fluorescent fixture. I looked at wal-mart for the one mentioned earlier and they didn't have it. I know I can just buy a few different ones to see which one is quietest, but I was wondering if anyone had another specific recommendation. Thanks

[Jim Brennan]

If anybody is still looking for those LOA 8055SS Fluoros, I found them at Lowe's for 15 bucks.

[Jim Brennan]

Okay, a couple of questions.
I bought some 48" 3000K bulbs with a cri of 85. When I look at the bulb, it looks a lot different than my 3200k halogens. I'm having a hard time judging how different the color temp of the light they are throwing is. Is looking at the bulb itself a good way to judge?

Second, all of the screw in fluoros I can find do not list a color temp or cri. They just say cool and warm. I've tried Lowes, HOme Depot and WalMart. ANy suggestions on that?
Thanks.

[dmitriandsnow]

Jim, the color rendering index of your bulbs does not meet the requirement of 91CRI for film/video. Most likely the colors will not be as acurate and you will have a significant amount of green peeking out. There is no way you can judge a bulb of its temperature just by taking a look. Your brain will automatically white balance the bulb and everything else around it. Try lighting a piece of white wall while adjusting your incam options. Also when buying bulbs for film/video make sure they squeese a good amount of lumens.
Take a look www.fullspectrumsolutions.com
I have the t12 48" 93 CRI, 2500 Lumens, 5900K bulbs and they do have a slight green tint but you can overrun that via incam settings.
Good luck!

[Jim Brennan]

Thanks. That sight looks great, except I'm trying to match my halogens at 3200K, and they don't list any. If anybody knows where to find a 3200k 48"bulb with a CRI of <91, I'd love to hear about it.

[Barry_Green]

I assume you mean >91?

Kino Flo

[Jim Brennan]

Damn Catholic Schools!