FCP P2 offload question

[Johnny Bueno]

Hey everyone,

I've been doing research on the procedure of dumping footage off of P2 cards and am a little confused on a couple of things. First, I've read a lot of people saying to "Not use Finder to drag and drop the contents of the card over." I've hear this over and over. The only problem is I have no idea what that means so that I can even avoid doing it. Can anyone clarify what that means? Is it the same as opening FCP and using the "Log and Transfer" option? Second, I've read a lot of people saying to use the P2CMS or Raylight or both to offload your footage from the cards. I understand that the reason is for ease of archiving and to keep original MFX files and metadata in tact. My question is, aside from using the P2CMS and raylight, will I have problems or risk hurting my footage by opening FCP and using the "Log and Transfer" option for bring my footage into FCP off of the mounted P2 card instead? Is that an incorrect and harmful way of doing it? Any help clarifying these questions would be greatly appreciated. Again I've done some research and read the stickies but these questions are still a little unclear to me. Thanks

Johnny

[Dick Campbell]

You can bring P2 directly into FCP using L&T. FCP makes MOVs. What you lose is the original files and metadata, but if that's not important, no biggee.

Using Finder to D&D means connecting the cam via F/W, and mounting the cards in the Finder, then dragging the files to a folder. Many people do this, and do not have a problem. The key is to retain the exact files structure that was on the P2 in the new folder without renaming anything. It would be prudent to check out the file integrity before reformatting the card. The advantage of this is you always have your raw files for archiving, includng metadata.

Raylight allows you to use MXF natively without L&T. P2CMS allows file management options also. I've never used either of these.

My workflow is slightly different. I use a duel adaptor to dump the cards off camera, and archive the raw file to a hdd. But I have done the L&T on occasion for small clips.

[Johnny Bueno]

Thanks Campbell. So if you use the Camera to offload and use Finder to D&D it is only bad if you dont make sure that you retain the file structure of the P2 card? But it can be done correctly that way, but just not advised? So P2CMS and raylight just avoid the hassle of you having to worry about retaining the P2 card structure? That being said, thats only the case if you drag & drop? So using L&T isn't the same as D&D? with L&T it auto retains everything of the card correctly? So if I understand, the only difference is that L&T doesn't keep metadata and converts the footage to different file type than MXF? Sorry if Im not being clear and for the questions. But am I understanding correct now?

[Barry_Green]

Log & Transfer doesn't retain anything of the original card's folder structure. It extracts only the video and audio, and converts it into a quicktime movie, discarding the original footage.

Drag & drop, when done properly, retains the entire contents of the card structure. There's the potential for user error here (sometimes folks go in and just copy out individual files, thus rendering their copied footage inaccessible).

The problem with drag & drop is that while it works fine for many, it doesn't work perfectly for all people all the time. We have had dozens of reports of "glitches" happening in the footage when doing a simple drag 'n' drop, especially when dropping files to an external FW hard disk.

We also have reports and I've seen instances of the same "glitching" happening when doing a L&T directly from the cards.

The recommendations you see are to prevent any potential of glitching. Use a file-verified copy program (such as P2CMS with verification turned "on") and you will avoid any glitching.

The glitching is not prevalent, in fact it seems to be quite rare. Many people get along just fine without ever experiencing it. A few do not. We don't know why it works great for most but not for all. So the question you face is one of your tolerance level for data corruption. If you absolutely cannot conceive of ever having your footage glitched, and you're willing to double your transfer times, then use P2CMS with data verification, and you will be assured of never ever having any glitching. If you don't care if the occasional frame gets glitched a little, then go right ahead and use drag 'n' drop, the odds are in your favor that you won't have a problem.

[Johnny Bueno]

Seeing as I'm not clever enough or know that much about computers enough to be able to retain the card structure on my own, I will more than likely never use the drag and drop option. Especially when many including yourself Barry have advised against it. That being said, I will be shooting weddings and if for any reason I have to dump footage mid ceremony I'll be using a Duel Adapter which I just recently purchased. I've never used it and was wondering what would my workflow be like and the process of using the Duel Adapter to dump footage? Would I have no choice but to use either D&D or L&T with it? Or can I dump the footage into the P2CMS? Which I do have on my computer as of recently.

Do I just connect the Duel adapter to the computer. Then place the card in the Duel Adapter and wait for it to appear on the desktop? And then what? Thanks for the help so far everyone.

Johnny

[Johnny Bueno]

Also, I understand completely why I would use P2CMS or Raylight. But I'm wondering, if I where to just be shooting weddings and simply editing them in FCP for distribution to only the bride and groom, would L&T in FCP be an ok workflow seeing as I dont need to worry about metadata or redistribution through any other NLE? But I still risk the very rare footage glitch with L&T? Now if I where shooting a movie which I will eventually do, then I would definitely want to use the P2CMS to keep the original files and metadata.

[Barry_Green]

Yes, L&T would be just fine if you don't ever anticipate needing to be able to use the footage on other platforms or needing the metadata.

The "glitch" happens (rarely) when reading directly from a P2 card and transferring to an OSX-based computer. The way to avoid it is to make sure you have a data-verified copy program. It's pretty simple to do; P2CMS is a free download, so I think you're overly worried about it; just read the sticky on P2CMS offloading and you'll be free of any worries or issues.

[Barry_Green]

The bigger question for you is: are you running Snow Leopard? Because if so, be aware the Duel adapter doesn't work with SL.

[Johnny Bueno]

Nope I don't run Leopard. I have Mac OSX 10.5.8. So I guess I should be good. Hey Barry would you or anyone else by any chance be able to explain the exact process of using a Duel Adapter? I just bought it. Is it ready to go out of the box? And what are the steps to using it and dumping footage off it? Or perhaps a link to a good tutorial would be very helpful. I cant seem to come up with anything in my searches. Thanks again for all the help.

Johnny