Can someone help me out with a couple HMC40 Questions Please??

[JJ011412]

Hey all,

Alright, so like many other users who are in the market for a new camera, the HMC40 is a VERY good possibility at around $2200-$2400 with XLR and mic setup. Now heres the part I don't understand.. Call me a "noob" or whatever you'd like but I figured I'd talk to some people who know about the camera before I invest $2400. Now what is the whole situation about format changing? I have both, a Macbook Pro with FCE, and a PC with Vegas Pro 9.0. Will the footage from the HMC40 work on these machines or what is the deal with the formats and changing them? Also, what is the deal with the cards, and mini DV? Sorry for the "noobish" questions, but this is going to be my first HD camera (Shooting with a Canon GL2 now..) and with me shooting weddings and such, a good camera can make a memory in someones life. If someone could just help me out, I'd really really appreciate it.

Thanks for your time everyone

[rich_r]

Well I am not sure exactly where you are going with your questions, but I will throw out some answers. Please try again if I have misunderstood your question(s).

I use Vegas Pro 9.0 with my HMC40. I have "played" with the free Edius Neo Booster, but I am still more comfortable with Vegas. Here's my normal workflow.
1. Shoot video onto a 16GB SDHC card (I have two 16GB SDHC cards and two 4GB SD cards as backup).
2. Create a project directory
2. Copy just the mts files onto my local harddisk (in a subdirectory of the main project directory).
3. Make a backup copy of the mts files on an external USB harddisk.
4. Convert the local mts files to AVI using Cineform Neoscene (in a different subdirectory of the main project directory)
5. Edit the avi files in Vegas - the Vegas project files and the resulting render go into the back project directory
6. When finished copy the entire project directory to a (different) external USB drive

I have at times used native mts files in Vegas (but generally only 720/24p). On my rather wimpy dual core laptop I can manage native AVCHD editing, but just barely.

I can't speak about a Mac workflow, but we have several Mac users that I am sure will chime in.

"Also, what is the deal with the cards, and mini DV?" --> No mini DV on the HMC40 only SD cards (one at a time).

As for weddings. Well that's another topic I cannot speak to directly. BUT I suspect the HMC40 may not be your best choice. It is relatively poor in low light and CMOS which does not react well to the typical low light and flashing at a wedding reception. Again, I am sure some other members will chime in on this one.

[BobDiaz]

In terms of a MAC, I'm using a 2.4GHz iMAC and FCE. I find that TOAST is about the best way to work with the files from the HMC40. I use the conversion software with Toast to take the files and render them as AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec). I tried Quicktime files, but I feel that AIC provides better performance.

When using FCE, you are limited to 1080/60i (1080/30p) and 720/30p. The camera supports 1080/60i, 1080/30p, 1080/24p, 720/60p, 720/30p, and 720/24p. The first number is the resolution:

1080 = 1920h x 1080v
720 = 1280h x 720v

The second number is the frame rate:

/60p = 60 frames per second (progressive)
/60i = 60 FIELDS per second, 30 "frames" per second (interlaced); avoid using this
/30p = 30 frames per second (progressive)
/24p = 24 frames per second (progressive) (the same as movie film)

Because of limits in FCE, 1080/30p makes sense and 720/30p makes sense. However, IF you shoot 720, shooting at 720/60p may be the better choice, it will still convert to 30p and the conversion software on the MAC seems to like to 720/60p over the 720/30p.

You might thing that higher resolution is always better, BUT shooting at the lower 720 resolution does offer less compression (thus slightly better quality) and is less work for your MAC. (Less pixels to have to fiddle with.)



Bob Diaz

[JJ011412]

Thanks for the fast responses everyone. Sorry for kind of "dancing around" the questions.. Does the workflow turn into a pain/about how long is the process I guess would be a better way of putting it. Also, would a on cam light help out enough in low low light to get a decent shot? This camera seems to be everything I could want and more for the $2000 range, and if possible, I'd MUCH rather spend the 2 grand rather than the 5 new, and around 3 used on the hvx..

Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate the help.. most forums are full of people just bashing on each other but this one seems a LOT different.. :thumbs up:

[GrahamH]

... how long is the process

Depends on how much computer power you have available.

With a i7 920, for example, editing the HMC40's AVCHD is faster than with a tape-based DV or HDV camera, because you can download and convert the clips faster than realtime, whereas tape logging from DV and HDV is always done realtime.

[v3rlon]

I am on a Core i7 Win64. I am dabbling with the demo of Vegas 9, and it is not that much trouble.

I import the files using the Windows importer and then point Vegas at them and go.

Short clips can be a little misleading as the response times are much faster when you don't have 30 minutes or more in the pipe. This was trues with HDV, too, though not as extreme.

The lowlight thing is... well you will have to look at what you are shooting and the product you deliver. If you have a local retailer who carries them, you can get your hands on one and explain what you're trying to do. They will probably be able to demo something to give you a good idea of what to expect.

There have been a few lowlight videos posted. See if you find them acceptable, and pay attention to whether or not they used the 'lownoise' or default (or unspecified) settings.

[JJ011412]

hmm alright.. thanks alot guys..

[ShugPro Digital Studio]

My workflow is as follows:

1. Copy contents of card to external USB hard drive using Panasonic AVCCAM Viewer software (into a new folder for each project)
2. Use Final Cut Pro to "import" the clips into a new project as AIC or ProRes quicktime files (onto a different external drive)
3. Edit

Regarding shooting weddings/low light performance:
I just shot a wedding a couple weeks ago that had some very low light situations. I used an Anton Bauer Ultralight 2 and the HMC40 had no problem seeing in those scenes.

While the camera does produce some video noise in lower light situations, most of my work is still delivered on SD DVDs, and still looks 100 times better than a lower resolution camera with better low light sensitivity would look. (in my opinion, of course) if i was delivering on HD, I'd be more concerned about the noise.

[ddixon]

I use my school's HMC40 with Final Cut Pro on both my school MacBook Pro and my home Mac Pro. I am not a pro, so just import from my cards (using a card reader, not the camera) as ProRes in FCP and don't back up the original clips.

My MacBook Pro is a Jan. 2009 2.8 ghz dual core w/4 gb of RAM - on this my import/conversion into FCP is about 2/3 real time - a six minute clip would take about 4 minutes to import.

My MacPro is a Jan. 2008 dual quad core Xeon 2.8 ghz w/6 gb of RAM. On this 8 core Mac the import/conversion is about 1/3 real time - a six minute clip would take about 2 minutes to import.

On both of these the editing works very well after the import, and I often even use a fast Firewire 800 portable drive as my project drive. Again, I'm in Final Cut Pro, not Final Cut Express. I have downloaded the Panasonic utility for backing up the original clips, but have not used it yet. That would add some time to the workflow.

Hope this helps

[BobDiaz]

I just use a SD/SDHC card reader on my iMAC to read in the data. I copy all the car with every folder onto a sub-directory on my MAC.

Then I use TOAST to convert the file into AIC format that FCE seems to like.


Bob Diaz

[Alejo_NIN]

I just use a SD/SDHC card reader on my iMAC to read in the data. I copy all the car with every folder onto a sub-directory on my MAC.

Then I use TOAST to convert the file into AIC format that FCE seems to like.


Bob Diaz
can't you just do the same with iMovie? to convert to the AIC?

i am currently editing AVCHD directly into FCP3, but mang, for the video to play correctly from the timeline it has to have the following settings.
i have to lower the "playback framerate" to "quarter"
otherwise i get the dreaded pop-ups about RT.

[ShugPro Digital Studio]

FCP doesn't do native AVCHD, you're either converting it into ProRes or AIC when you import it.

I'd mess with your real time settings, i've never gotten an error like you're describing..

[ZFHProductions]

Is your hard drive pretty full? I notice that as the hard drive that I am editing off of gets closer to maximum capacity I start to run into more of those messages.

Also, just for clarity, if you are using Final Cut Studio 3, the it is Final Cut Pro 7.

[BobDiaz]

can't you just do the same with iMovie? to convert to the AIC?
...

I can't because I don't have the latest version of iMovie. My older version don't allow for that.

It's not a big issue, because TOAST works so well for me.


Bob Diaz

[Pavel+]

Why AIC rather than pro res?

[BobDiaz]

Why AIC rather than pro res?

The only reason I use AIC rather than Pro-Res is that I'm using FCE. I understand that FCE doesn't work in Pro Res.

Now, if I win the Lottery, I could afford to upgrade to FCP and I'd switch to Pro Res. :D


Bob Diaz