View Full Version : After effects is my fav NLE
Dan_Lahav
04-09-2004, 02:57 PM
I dont know about you guys but I love after effects more than any other NLE. I only use vegas to put footage together for final renders and also edit audio... but all the cool stuff i do in AE! How about you guys?
I guess it depends what sort of projects you do. I edit a lot of long-form stuff (documentaries, films, etc.) so I wouldn't even think of using AE for this. I edit these in a program more suited to editing.
Actually, even for short projects, I would edit in Vegas before bringing it into AE for compositing. That sounds like what your doing too. IMHO, AE is not really an NLE (except in the most general sense), it's more of a compositor.
skettalee
04-09-2004, 08:05 PM
I agree as AE is not really used as a NLE. It wasn't even built for that, stick with something like FCP, Avid, Vegas or something. But I understand where you are getting the cool from. It is cool. Check this little thing I created from the help of Trish :
http://www.damienbenoit.com/videos/20comm.html
Dan_Lahav
04-09-2004, 09:41 PM
True true. I guess im getting em mixed up. Although sometimes I do use it as an NLE for very short projects.
BTW, slick design Skettalee. Some nice work you've done there!
;D
Hey Dan-
I also use it for simple, short form projects (:30-2:00), etc. No, it's not meant to be an "editor", but I like the complete manual control, and just the pure control you have in it. I use FCP for longer edits, but AE is always a factor.
PurposeDriven
04-12-2004, 09:10 AM
Anything in Moderation is what I say. Kai, manual control is exactly what AE is, good description. I love AE, and with Adobe Premiere Pro, I can open my Premiere Project files into AE, edit in AE, then go back to Premiere with out a snag. One thing Adobe has done well. :) But don't worry, Avid is still the best. 8)
ha. No, Discreet Smoke, Flame, and Inferno are the best 8)
Taylor Moore
04-12-2004, 01:33 PM
If you edit in a goodprogram then export via Automatic Duck, you have alot of power...
KAI don't forget Shake.
PurposeDriven
04-12-2004, 04:33 PM
Avid is still the best NLE. Smoke, Flame, Inferno, and Shake are great compositors, but NLE, yeah... AVID.
skettalee
04-12-2004, 05:31 PM
i agree. I love me some AVID!
Actually Smoke is an NLE.
PurposeDriven
04-13-2004, 11:24 AM
My bad. Never used it before. But I take it that it has been around a while and yet, Avid is still numero uno. I will definitely read more about it. I don't want to say anything till I learn about it, but Avid has been the leader in NLEs for quite some time. At least in professional popularity.
Smoke hasn't been around for too long, no, but it's on the high end.. high high end. used on many a feature films & commercials. I liken the Avid thing to the Yamaha NS-10 studio monitors back in the day. They were the most popular and "standard" studio monitors in pro studios.... wanna know why? Because Yamaha gave them away to all the big studios, so they were everywhere. People just assumed "hey these things are everywhere, they must be the best!" (even though they sounded like crap, people assumed they were the standard). I'm not saying Avid is crap by any means... I've used Media Composers, etc, and wouldn't mind having one for the marketability it offers, but I'd rather have many more suites based around cheaper non-proprietary seats than one avid. Many studio owners are reluctant to refit their studios with cheaper, faster, better systems because "Hey, I just dumped $100k+ on this Avid!!!!" I'd take a smoke over most of them....
That's why I do all my editing and compositing on an Etch-A-Sketch...
http://www.kylestauffer.com/dvx/etcheditor.jpg
Guest
04-13-2004, 12:23 PM
yeah, Avid would great if they changed up the interface they've been using for...let's see...FOREVER!
We use 844/x's, and it works pretty well as a real-time NLE/Compositor, but it still has a way to go before I stop using AfterEffects completely. Plus you can get AE for less than a grand, while you'll have to shell out about $40 G for an 844 suite.
http://www4.discreet.com/smoke/
PurposeDriven
04-13-2004, 12:43 PM
I wouldn't bash the Interface. They created, or at least were one of the founding fathers of that interface. There is no real reason to change it. It's like me saying, I'm tired of my "A" button being on the left hand side, I want to change it up. There is no good reason. It works, well. From looking at the specs of smoke, it does have impressive features that I would like to learn more about. However, I still don't have that much faith in Discreet's products to put all my NLE work on it. Combustion gave me problems, 3DS max is working well for me.
I understand people like different things, but can you honestly say that smoke is going to change the way we edit and will, in time, be the driving force in Major Motion Picture editing? I will try to get my hands on a student copy to learn more. But do you think Avid is like the Yamaha speakers Kai? Avid hands them out so that's why they are considered to be the best?
Let's also not forget that Avid owns Pro-Tools, which is the standard for many recording houses. Avid has a lot going for them. I don't honestly see FCP or Smoke or any other NLE taking away too much of their thunder in the professional world.
You can't get a "student copy" of Smoke... it's a high-end system running on Unix/SGI machines. Look to drop about $70k if you want to "get a copy". Then you have to add the system and storage to it.
Your comments on Discreet products (3dmax, combustion) were referencing their low-end "prosumer" offerings. Inferno, Flame, Smoke, etc are all high end, and used in most of the high end studios in the world. Watch TV and the movies... you're seeing Discreet's products at work.
My comment about the NS-10's and Avid was to point out that if there are enough people using one particular thing, everyone will automatically assume it's "the best", when in reality, it may not be. Cold Mountain being cut on FCP is a perfect example that it doesn't take an Avid to produce perfectly professional work anymore. In the old days when Avid was all you had, yes. Now, that's not the case.
PurposeDriven
04-13-2004, 02:12 PM
Easy there Kai. The white flag is up. I can see that you take this to heart. I am sorry about the student version thing, I assumed you could as with more applications. With that said, Avid has proven itself time and time again. I work at a post house with nothing but Avid Media Composers. We do 7 screen 7 source shows, up to 25-30 layers of timecode locked video with effects applied to many of them, pushing the limites on an NLE. Now, i know that FCP handles its rendering differently then an Avid. Avid will only ask you to re-render something if you have affected a frame, and you will re-render that frame. While FCP will ask you to render the entire sequence with the effect. That's my experience with FCP. Now, I don't use it often, but at least here at my work, FCP couldn't cut it.
wwww.mbaproductions.com
lol. no after I re-read my post it did look a bit harsh. Sorry. No hard feelings on all this. It's all just ones & zeros and the tools we use to create em. :)
You should check out some of the FCP offerings out there now... Realtime HD with certain hardware setups (check out cinewave, etc).. pretty amazing stuff. Avid relies on hardware also, so to compare a full blown hardware-supported avid to a software-only out of the box FCP, is a bit unfair. That's a given a Media Composer will smoke it lol. :)
Guest
04-14-2004, 01:49 PM
Good call, Kai. I work on a $60,000 844/x SDI & xBlur suite at work & use a $5,000 FCP 4.1/G4 setup at home, and it's amazing how many times I bring things from work home just because it's easier to do on the Final Cut.
Considering it handles SD, HD, film, and even SDI (with an Io for less than a grand!), Final Cut is an amazing piece of software for the price.
I stopped using Avids when I graduated from college & I pray that I never have to again.
I stopped using Avids when I graduated from college & I pray that I never have to again.
HA that's precicely about the time I stopped using them too :)
PurposeDriven
04-15-2004, 09:34 AM
I don't understand why you all have this negative viewpoint on avid. You have to pray you never use it again? I respect your opinions, and yes, FCP does do a lot for the price. But, Avid is still a powerfull tool, and the standard for professional editing. Like I posted earlier, it would take a lot for FCP to do what we do here at work. I just don't see it catching up anytime soon. Also, why hinder yourself by saying you never want to use it again, avid has intergrated features the FCP doesn't, such as in NLE multi-cam editing, also Avid handles rendering effecte files better. Also, Avid builds their own hardware, made by them for that system. Rather than having to buy another companies hardware for the NLE.
Bottom line, both are great, and yes, in the end you could do pretty much the same things, but I think in the end, Avid has the professional leg up on FCP. FCP is cheaper then a media composer, but Xpress Pro is only 600 more, and is well worth it in my book. But, you all do great work, and in the end, all that matters is that.
Taylor Moore
04-17-2004, 10:40 AM
Lets be frank here,
I have had the fortune or misfortune of working on a variety of editing systems from cutting film on a flatbed to compositing on a Flame to using a Dvsion, to suffering through Premiere to being impressed with Vegas.
I am presently working on a AVID. All systems have there disadvantages and advantages, AVID I/0 for effects work has always sucked, but they do have the industry standard on interface and by far the largest user base in the world, and the most credits.
FCP is great but still has a way to go it's ability to cut long form content or series with alot/hours upon hours of content.
As I have said before each system has it's advantages and dis advantages, you just have to work hard and research to get around the short comings...thank god for new products such as www.automaticduck.com for get files in and out of these systems and into compositing systems.
My 2 cents.