HMC40 and Century 0.5x Wide Angle [PICS]

[MrPolarBare]

**EDIT** - As you'll read in the replies below, vignetting is NOT an issue after removing the inner lens hood. Please read comments below for more info on this :)

Just did a real quick test to see how the Century Optics 0.5x Wide Angle works with the HMC-40. I keep a Tiffen UV Filter on my camera for protection, but it caused excessive vignetting. I removed the filter and it reduced it quite a bit, but not totally. The pics below show all of the different situations. The comparison at the end is I guess what the final result would be at the end of the day, once the vignetting is removed in post.

Images were originally shot in 720/60p mode, then reduced 50% and desaturated in Photoshop.

I would've posted this in "Footage/Stills", but figured this is modified footage, and might be more appropriately posted here. Moderate as you see fit :happy:

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/12351/1263507054.jpg

http://mikemclin.com/files/uv_and_wide.jpg

http://mikemclin.com/files/wide.jpg

http://mikemclin.com/files/wide_cropped.jpg

http://mikemclin.com/files/compare.jpg

[BobDiaz]

In reading about this lens, it looks like one can zoom slightly to crop the image slightly. I'm not sure how far you can go, but that would make an interesting test to see how far you can push it.

When you mount the wide angle lens, do you have to keep the outer lens hood off?

Is the image still sharp OR does it appear to go fuzzy in the corners?

Do you notice any problems with increased CA?


Sorry for all the questions, but some sort of wide angle adapter is going to be my next purchase....


Bob Diaz

[Bic Parker]

I originally almost overlooked this in the HMC40 owner's manual (see page 16), but you need to take off the INNER HOOD also if you attach a wide angle lens to prevent vignetting.

You can't use the outer lens hood with a conversion lens.

I noted only a very mild CA on zooms. It is there, however (I'm an amateur astronomer and you end up noticing these things out of habit).

[ravencr]

I have the panasonic .7x wide angle with no vignetting without a filter.

Chris

[Barry_Green]

MrPolarBare, can you try it again after removing the inner lens hood? It's possible you'd get no vignetting at all with the inner lens hood removed.

And yes, if you can't do that and there's always vignetting, I'd recommend just zooming in a little; the results will be the same (as per field of view) as the cropping, but the overall image should be sharper/better than the cropped image would be.

[BobDiaz]

I did some searching on what the specifications fro the Century Optics 0.5x Wide Angle says...

According to their specifications, one should be able to zoom in to about 1/3 of the zoom range before it goes out of focus. Even if we were limited to 1/6 of the zoom range, that would be enough to crop out the black corners. (My guess....)

http://www.samys.com/common/images/products/main/CENU0HD05WA43x250.jpg


Here's a low-cost, HD wide angle solution. The .5X Wide Angle Adapter offers a lightweight single-element design that allows the user to go substantially wider without noticeable distortion. This adapter increases the angle of view and it allows close focusing — right up to the lens front — on many camcorders. When this adapter is attached, angle of view is increased by 50%. Partial zoom adapter, allows zoom capability from wide angle to about one-third of the zoom range when using the camera in auto focus mode.

Filter Size: 67mm Length: 1.77" Lens Diameter: 0.37" Magnification: 0.5x Mount Diameter: 43mm Weight: 4.6 oz (131g)
As you can see from the photo, is a 67mm thread where we could put a lens hood on the wide angle lens. Interesting.... it appears to cost around $160.


Bob Diaz

[MrPolarBare]

Removing the inner lens hood (didn't know this was possible) removes vignetting completely :)

I was able to zoom to Z50 and still keep focus. Beyond that is a no-go. Once again this was the same settings I used before, and the same lighting/location that you see in my pics above.

I have a duplex I need to rent out, and will be doing a quick video virtual tour to help promote the property. I'll post the video here so you can see the wide angle in action. Video should be done mid-next week.

[Barry_Green]

Thanks for re-testing! Glad to hear you can avoid the vignetting problem entirely.

I'd love to see some comparison photos at the same basic focal length, with/without the adapter, so we know how much of an effect it has on the image too. So put it on, zoom to maybe Z35 or so, take a shot, pull the adapter off, zoom out to where you're framed about the same as you were with the adapter at z35, and take a second shot, and let's compare.

I think a lot of folks are going to want a wide-angle adapter on their HMC40, so it'd be great to get some user feedback on how the various ones work and which ones have the cleanest image.

[BobDiaz]

The fact that one can zoom up to Z50 is a real plus for the Century Adapter. Assuming CA and any other problems aren't too bad, the Century looks good.

I just wish I knew more about how the Raynox Adapters performed....



Bob Diaz

[dcloud]

ive used the raynox 6600. works great on an hv20 and im sure itll work with hmc40 perfectly. i think its around 120 bucks. pretty cheap imo

[BobDiaz]

You're right, it's about $120. See message #6:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=196675



Bob Diaz

[MrPolarBare]

As I promised, here is a clip using the adapter in a virtual tour I just shot (my first time using the HMC40...yay!)

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=1870300#post1870300

[Alejo_NIN]

subbin for coolness.

[BobDiaz]

The concept works well, but I wish I could see a video with a short pause in the movement. In this video, I'm seeing some blur due to movement, so I can't really judge how sharp the adapter is.

Is there any way you could post a full sized freeze frame? :dankk2:


Bob Diaz

[Robert M Wright]

That's way, way too much bowing for me.

For those who are fine with the image distortion, there's simply no way on God's green earth that you'll be able to tell, from a YouTube video, if the glass is good enough to resolve detail at anywhere near the level an HMC40 is capable of recording, even if there's no motion in the footage whatsoever. YouTube can take 800+ lines of resolution and cut it dang near in half with their brutal compression!

[MrPolarBare]

there's simply no way on God's green earth that you'll be able to tell, from a YouTube video...

I also posted a higher quality MP4 below the clip for download. I can upload the MTS if requested as well.

There definitely is some bowing. I assumed that that was a trade-off that almost had to be taken when switching to such a wide angle. Are there other adapters out there that have reduced bowing? Or is that not possible with a fixed lens camcorder?

[Robert M Wright]

Apparently there is very little distortion (bowing) with the Raynox. I've never used one myself though.

[BobDiaz]

I also posted a higher quality MP4 below the clip for download. I can upload the MTS if requested as well.

There definitely is some bowing. I assumed that that was a trade-off that almost had to be taken when switching to such a wide angle. Are there other adapters out there that have reduced bowing? Or is that not possible with a fixed lens camcorder?


Sorry, but I don't see the link either here or on YouTube. I know you can put links within the description of the video, but links in comments are rejected.

A still frame from the video will do, if you can capture that and post it somewhere.


Thanks,

Bob Diaz

[JoeJITSU]

ive used the raynox 6600. works great on an hv20 and im sure itll work with hmc40 perfectly. i think its around 120 bucks. pretty cheap imo
Ill be receiving mine on tuesday. Ill be able to post some pics the following day. stay tuned

[Robert M Wright]

This should be the link Bob:

http://mikemclin.com/files/HMC40_Century_0.5x_FlowPod.zip

[BobDiaz]

I was going to start a new thread, then I remembered we had this one already, so I'm posting images from the Century 0.5x Wide Angle Adapter.

SUMMERY OF TESTS:

While you can zoom into the image up to about 52 to 53, the corners of the image go soft. The more you zoom, the worse it gets. You might be able to do a zoom 10, but beyond that, it really gets soft in the corners. Just use this adapter at the widest angle setting for sharpest results.

At close to wide open at the widest setting, you can see a bit of softness in the corner. (Look at the grass in the lower right corner.) As you close the iris to F4.5, it's not bad and by F10.5 it looks normal.

F10.5:
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f103/KQ6WQ/HMC40/WA_Adapter-F105.png

F4.5:
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f103/KQ6WQ/HMC40/WA_Adapter-F45.png

F1.9:
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f103/KQ6WQ/HMC40/WA_Adapter-F19.png


Bob Diaz

[Bic Parker]

Bob,
The other noticeable aberration, and I noticed with mine also, is the chromatic aberration, which in your pictures is most prominent against the power lines (purple fringing), though you can see it elsewhere.

[Alejo_NIN]

is not bad...i'm hoping to get one myself soon

as always, thnx bob for great TESTS!

[BobDiaz]

A friend of the family is getting married next week and I'm shooting the video. IF there are shots in the reception where the WA Adapter might be needed, I'll use it.


Bob Diaz

[Alejo_NIN]

you better do, and come back and shows us what comes out!

[Bic Parker]

Bob,
I use mine a lot since I am shooting outdoor stuff at the Comanche Springs Astronomy Campus. I have some success avoiding too much visible CA by watching my shooting angles, but sometimes it just can't be avoided (you can minimize it a bit in post). A polarizing filter, mentioned later here, can help, though. Generally here are my lessons learned with this WA adapter:

1. you have to be just slightly zoomed in a bit (about 10 or so) if you have a polarizing filter on the front or you will have some vignetting.
2. Like you mentioned, if you zoom in too much, you will have some severe coma around the edges (the blurring stuff). You just can't do it much with this adapter on. However, this is where having a steadicam type mount (Glidecam in my case) works well so you can just move in or out instead of zooming. It isn't a perfect substitute, but can give some dimensions and movement to the zoom.
3. Brightly lit scenes with dark sharp edges against lighter shades will make the CA (purple) really apparent. A polarizing filter can knock that down plus just carefully planning your shooting angles. A warming filter can be effective with this in some situations, especially if you are getting yellow CA (which can show up in sunlit, lighter contrast spots). Sometimes it just can't be avoided, though.

[Den Hartogh]

I was wondering whether anyone can advise on the use of a teleconverter on the HMC40, which I'll need to shoot action shots at distance.

Thinking of getting a Century Optics 2.0 (58mm) and use a step-up ring 46-58.

Will this reduce vignetting at all, due to the larger lens size?
How will the camera balance with a 500 g lens on the front?

Or would it be better to use eg. Canon TL-H46 (does not have external filter ring).

Thanks

[brapoza]

I just bought the Century 0.5 adapter. You can zoom through to about 50%. Also if you remove the so called inner lens hood you will get no vignetting. Looking for some type of matte box lens shade since the original no longer fits with this adapter

Look at page 16 of the operating manual for the HMC40

[Dendron]

I was reading this topic and I found out that the HMC40 has an inner lens hood. I've been trying to remove it, but I can't get it to budge. I looked at page 16 in the PDF guide, but all it shows is that it can be detached without unscrewing.

Is there something else I have to remove first before trying to remove the inner lens hood? The outer lens hood is obviously removed; no filters or additional lens are on the camera. I can see two tabs going through two holes and I tried using leverage with a few tools to lift up the larger tab from the bottom to no avail (I tried the other side also). This inner lens hood better not be simply just too tight because I don't want to use more force for fear of slipping and scratching the lens. So, any insight on this would be a great help.

[Luis Caffesse]

Dendron - the inner lens hood does in fact require unscrewing.
The outer ring of the hood will rotate, while the hood portion will remain in place... just keep unscrewing it until the entire piece comes off.

[Dendron]

That was the very first thing I tried; it didn't seem to even be able to do that. What sort of tool must I use? Just now, I tried a few square/rectangular items that would fit in between the outer ring and I tried twisting to unscrew it. I tried twisting counter-clockwise, which is the correct rotation direction, correct? If that's not the issue, what should I do? It would be helpful to see a video of the process to make sure I'm doing this right.

[Mike Beckett]

WIth mine, I just screw it counter-clockwise, gently, to remove. The two little spigots don't really come into it at all, they just help you to align it when putting the inner hood on.

Filters do get stuck sometimes. In these cases, I use a pair of rubberised gloves (like you use for dishwashing) to try to get more grip on the filter. It can also help to use the palm of your hand and try to unscrew it with that.

I would strongly recommend not to put any device in there to try to loosen it other than a proper filter wrench (which any photo store should have).

I'll try to post a video shortly, though it ain't easy without a second video camera!

[Mike Beckett]

Not exactly my production of the year, but it may help:

http://www.mikeb.org.uk/hmc41hood.zip

Approx 9MB zipped MPEG4 file.

[Dendron]

Thank you for the video. After trying several times with my bare fingers again, I looked for a rubber glove. I donned it and did my best in getting the inner lens hood free. Just when I was about to give up with intense pain coursing through my fingers, the inner hood finally gave. I stored it, never to use it again. I tried on my cheap telephoto and wide angle lenses on and they seem to do a better job now. The cool thing is that I can just leave the step-up ring and still be able to put the outer lens hood on.

Thanks!

[Mike Beckett]

Good job. :)

I had the same problem over Christmas here when I was out filming. The extreme cold weather must've done something to a screw-on ND filter and I couldn't get it off, so the struggle and techniques were fresh in my mind!

[Ogrus]

Ill be receiving mine on tuesday. Ill be able to post some pics the following day. stay tuned

Any news?
Im thinking of getting it... I need a honest review!