Canon 500D close-up lens for DVX-100

[chinadan]

Hi, just bought a 500D achromatic diopter in 72 mm since the Century Optics is about 300 USD more. So far, it seems to work quite well, although I am really looking for extreme macro shots.

When I find some time, I will post some screen shot

Cheers!

[ddh]

chinadan, how is the canon 500D working out? Just curious as I'm looking into the same thing.

[chinadan]

Well, I have to admit that I have not been able to test it much yet. Plus, I really do not know a good comparison shot to show the difference.

So far, I can say that the 500D allows me to get about the same macro magnification you would get if you were to remove the lens shade and get as close to your subject as possible - only now for a comfortable distance.

So the macro effect hasn't actually changed, it is just now available from a distance.

The reason I bought it is that I often shoot videos in our factory for training purposes and to get the close-up I needed, I literally had to interfere with the line workerand hold the camera close the the particular machine I wanted to capture.

Now, I can leave the camera on the tripod and get the same detail over the worker's shoulder...I hope this doesn't sound to confusing...

By the way, the 500D resulted ina very narrow DOP, so it may actually have other desirable effects for non-macro use.

ddh, if you can imagine a good comparison shot I will try my best to do it and post it here.

As a final thought I would like to amend that I don't think the Century Optics diopter does anything more, it just costs 3x.

[Beat Takeshi]

I bought a close up lens too off of ebay ust to try it. I think it gives me about a 10-20% increase in zoom but I have only tried it indoors. It seems to focus ok too. I put it up to the lens by hand and took it away to get a sense of how much it works. I dont know the numbers of the lens and its some no name brand, I just wanted to see if it would work.
OPp...

[ddh]

chinadan,
The only thing I'd like to check out is the DOF - say six feet to the subject and six feet beyond to a background. Then 10 feet from the subject with about the same in background. That would give me a good idea about DOF in a practical sense. thanks.
???

[chinadan]

I'll try to get something done by this weekend.

Cheers.

[ddh]

Hey, Chinadan,
anything on DOF?

[chinadan]

Sorry DDH-

I have been to busy/lazy to do anything (I did not even play with my new AKG shotgun).

But to give you some taste of what I will probably be reporting, read the following thread over in the cinematography forum.

http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=1065759027

I am afraid that they are right...zooming in reduces DOF, and the diopter dramatically amplifies this. Eventually it will act like a macro lens an only provide a very shallow DOF, maybe a couple of millimeters but your subject will be magnified.

I will try to play around with it tonight and see if there is any possible use for DOF (e.g. by increasing the distance to the subject).

Sorry again for being such a bum... :-[

[ddh]

Hey, thanks.

[Zoomforce]

Super Macro :)


http://www.dvxuser.com/image/lego.jpg

[J.R. Hudson]

She's fucking hot! :o

[Taylor Moore]

Hey Zoom,
Do you think this will work the same as a achromatic diopter?
For building the crazy Mini35/alt version where you put a 35mm still lens in a shorttube then attach it to the DVX with this Canon 500D closeup lens??

If so what was the cost of the Canon 500D.

[Zoomforce]

She is a he with lipstick.. Gotta love Lego and diopters :)

As for the mini35, i doubt it will work... would probally work for making a film transfer camera though.

Dont know the price on the 500d.. that lego dude was shot with a +10 behind a +1 Diopter though..

[Guest]

The right arm of the Lego dude seems a bit blurred. Is that because it's a bit further away from the camera i.e. is the DOF this narrow?

Jan

[Zoomforce]

yes.. the depth of field with that setup is about 1mm, maybe even less.

[Taylor Moore]

Hey Jarred,
What is the minimum focus distance..from the front of the DVX and where on the DVX zoom or focal length?

Thanx

[Zoomforce]

It all depends.. I have 4 or 5 different powered Diopters so I can get as close as a few cm... on all of them though its hard to lock focus past about a 70 or 80 zoom level... but Diopters are basically big magnifying glasses so, as you can see with lego dude, if you want any more zoom you gotta put a bigger diopter on...

[Zoomforce]

here is an idea how close the depth is:


http://www.dvxuser.com/image/coin.jpg

[kai]

WOW :o

[Zoomforce]

yeah.. and diopters arnt only for macro stuff.. they help give depth with out needing to be at the end of the lens like this:

http://www.dvxuser.com/image/maryd.jpg

[Barry_Green]

Hey Jarred,

Since you've got a set of close-up lenses, and people are interested in making the Agus35, can you do a quick test and see what power of diopters would be necessary to fill the DVX screen with a 24 x 18 frame?

...especially at as wide-angle as possible... the wider you go, of course, the faster the lens becomes, and the biggest problem I had with the mini35 was that we were losing 4 stops of light. If we could use it on wide-angle and buy back 1.5 stops of light, that would be phenomenal...

[Zoomforce]

hey not sure exactly what you want me to do... can you be more specific?

[Barry_Green]

Sure... draw out a box on a piece of paper, 24mm x 18mm. Then see if you can get the camera to focus sharply on it while filling the entire frame with that box. It'll take some close-up lenses but I don't know what combination would be the right set, or what magnification it'll require.

Furthermore, I'd like to see if you can fill the screen with that 24mm x 18mm box, but have the camera be on a fairly wide angle setting on the zoom. I'd like to see if, through the combinations of wide angle plus close-up diopters, you can fill the screen with a 24mm x 18mm rectangle while retaining an f/1.6 on the lens.

If that's possible, that'll be a big step forwards towards making a functional Agus35 or other mini35 type of device.

[Taylor Moore]

Right on Barry Great test...
looking forward to the results, Jarred.

[Zoomforce]

oh sorry Barry I thought you wanted me to actually make the thing lol... I can do that test no problem.

[Zoomforce]

http://www.dvxuser.com/image/micro1.jpg

[Barry_Green]

Ha! No, that would be asking a bit much, I think...

... "hey Jarred, when you get a spare minute, can you work up a complete clone of the mini35 for us?"

No, man, I just want to know what the usable diopter setting would be. I've got some close-up lenses, some Tiffen 4.5" +1, +2, and +3's, but they're useless on the DVX, so I can't test it myself, that's all...

Thanks! And thanks for working up that deal on the Quickstream! And thanks for working up the battery deal! Dude, you're all right!

[Zoomforce]

Yeah.. that macro shot makes me wanna buy a new printer :)

[Barry_Green]

So was that 24mm x 18mm? And what power diopter did you use? Looks like it's about, what, 70% or 80% of the way towards filling the screen, right?

[Zoomforce]

yeah it wasnt as easy as I thought it would be lol... it is 24x18, and I had no problem filling the frame But I lost focus at the edges.. I tried about 4 different combinations unitl I kinda gave up for now.

[AbracadabraFilms]

When the 500d is mounted on the DVX100a, and the camera is focused on a person from waist to top of head, is it possible to zoom in at all and rack some of the background out of focus while still mainting focus on the subject? In other words, would the 500d be suitable to give the background some blur while shooting an interview in tight quarters? Thanks, Craig

[Bill__Turner]

Just in case anyone is unclear, Diopters shift the camera lenses focus from infinity to a closer point, based on their power. The power is the focal length of the diopter divided into one meter, so the higher the power the closer one can focus. The 500d is a reference (I believe) to the actual focal length of the diopter, so it is a +2. Infinity on the lens becomes 500mm (about 20"). You will not be able to focus on object greater than 20" away except with in the limits of the depth of field for the focal length and F stop you are working at.

If you focus sharply at full tele then you can zoom thru the range and maintain focus, the only caveat being vignetting could occur near wide angle based on the diameter of the diopter and the focal length of the camera lens.

Depth of field is EXACTLY the same as if the lens was focused at the actual distance to the subject, in this case two feet. As you focus from Infinity to minimum it will focus a bit closer but the range is limited and becomes smaller as the power increases.

The advantage of the two element achromatic diopter of the single element types commonly sold (which are MUCH less expensive) is that they maintain good edge to edge sharpeness and color correction. The single element type tend to be unsharp at the edges and exhibit noticeable color , especially in the greater strengths.

If you simply wish to experiment , or are only interested in the center of the field, standard diopters are a good value.

They absolutely are not a way to decrease depth of field at a given working distance and focal length.

Bill Turner
Schneider Optics
Century Division

[AbracadabraFilms]

Bill. Thanks so much for your informative reply. There never seems to be a free lunch with lenses. I was hoping to cheat out a bit more brokeh without resorting to a mini 35 approach. It doesn't sound like the 500d will do it. I have Canon 24-70L and 70-200 IS lenses for my Canon 20D and thought I might get an additional bang for the buck with the 500D. I'll give it a try at the local camera shop just for fun and report in the results. Thanks again, Craig

[Barry_Green]

A close-up lens doesn't do anything to change the depth of field, that is true. However, it can be employed in certain circumstances to get you shallower DOF than you otherwise would have, in close quarters. If you're shooting with a DVX100, the minimum object distance is 3'. If you're trying to shoot a tight closeup in close quarters, you wouldn't be able to zoom in and still be able to focus. Using a close-up lens can change that -- you can get closer to the subject, zoom in, and still be able to focus. The DOF will be shallower because the camera is closer to the subject.

Not really relevant for DVX100A cameras, because they already allow for much closer minimum-object-distance. But it can be used on the DVX100. Only useful for ECUs though.

[ericyoung]

Any more info on the 500D. Does it vignette at the wide end? If it does, any reason why you couldn't buy the 77mm version and tape/support it in front to avoid vignetting?

And when the 82mm filter threaded HVX200 comes out, the 77mm version could be supported in front somehow and the camera zoomed in less than with the 72mm version? Or maybe there will be an 82mm version by then. Just don't want to buy twice for the occasional ECU I want to do!

[TheChief]

Hi,
I work with a Century wide angle and the camera , a DVX 100 has a Vocas DV Mattbox MK 11 on it that I use a very neutral density square lense with. More or less it protects the Century wide angle. So I want another lens that can do good close ups with good dof. any suggestions?

Also there are a few on camera lights to choose from, some very expensive and I am considering getting one. any suggestions?

The deal is I have to film some historical memorabalia and it is in an old mansion. I don't want a lot of glare coming back at me from the glass and I've done ok before but the place was pretty well lit. Just thinking out loud and since you guys are around ....