Z-Finder makes it harder - am I nuts?

[Jester2138]

So I was playing with the Z-Finder on a 7D and was expecting to be totally blown away by how much it helped me find focus.

Actually, I thought it made it harder. The pixels were so huge I could hardly see what I was looking at. The corners were hard to see unless I strained my eye around. All in all I thought the screen was waaay to close to my eyes for comfort.

Am I crazy? With all the raving going on about Z-Finder's I was surprised to find that I found it significantly easier to judge focus without the thing on.

There's always the LCDVF. With the 2x magnifier as opposed to the 3x maybe I'd like that one more.

[Thomas Lew]

Yikes that doesn't sound helpful at all if you have to look around to the corners.

:bath:

[david_p]

here is a suggestion. do a test of some very critical "rack focusing" using *only* the simple LCD then do the same test using the Zfinder. import the files blow them up to full screen and see which is better.

my guess is the Zfinder will win. if your shooting shallow DOF where focus is in the 1"-6" range for whats really in focus then i will predict that the NON Zfinder clips wont look as good after judging then up close. im not saying that all people should be the same and this is only based on my experiences. i thought i had shots in by looking only at the LCD but after seeing them up close i missed my mark the majority of the time. with the Zfinder i can see when im missing and there are no surprises afterwards.

on another note...yes the image is big with the Zfinder but i believe its still better than the Hoodloupe but...the lesser magnification type of eyepiece still works so maybe that would appeal to you more. i wear glasses and dont have any problem seeing the full image through the Zfinder though..no problem at all but on the Hoodloupe i did have a problem seeing the edges unless i pressed hardly to the eyepiece. not very comfortable to me. also, are you sure that you have the diopter adjusted correctly for your eye?

good luck
david
www.davidprobst.com

[Chris Santucci]

I ordered the Hoodman HLPP3 Hoodloupe and the Redrock microfinder mount after ruling out that overpriced Z finder thing.

This was helpful:

http://www.cameratown.com/articles/dslr_cinematography.cfm

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[f64manray]

So I was playing with the Z-Finder on a 7D and was expecting to be totally blown away by how much it helped me find focus.

Actually, I thought it made it harder. The pixels were so huge I could hardly see what I was looking at. The corners were hard to see unless I strained my eye around. All in all I thought the screen was waaay to close to my eyes for comfort.

.

Thank you so much for posting! This is exactly what I was afraid of. I've asked a couple of times about the pixels on the Zfinder and being able to see nothing but pixels in a couple of forums and people just reply that it's just a sharp image. I've got a 4X loup which I've used for the 5DII LCD and it's rediculous trying to judge anything by it. I had concerns that the 3X on the Zucuto would definitely be better than 4X but still suffer from the same issue. It sounds like the 2X on the LCDVF will be just right. Better than the Hoodman but still less magnification than the Z finder.

Again, thanks !!!!!

[f64manray]

I ordered the Hoodman HLPP3 Hoodloupe and the Redrock microfinder mount after ruling out that overpriced Z finder thing.

This was helpful:

http://www.cameratown.com/articles/dslr_cinematography.cfm

.

How do you like your Hoodman? It seems like I continually read that people have used it but don't like it. Bloom has probably single handedly killed sales for that loupe.

[Chris Santucci]

I just ordered the HLPP3 last night so I'll have to return to this thread and let you know how it is when I get it. I had a Hoodman unit (not a loupe) for my Nikon DSLR that was a piece of junk, so I'm no huge fan of Hoodman, but the thing seems reasonable (looking). I'd have a hard time believing it's much worse than the $400. unit that has to attach with an adhesive (no thanks) or some rubber bands.

I'm guessing Zacuto builds marketing costs into the price of the Z finder so they can pay bloggers to rave about it. It's interesting on this comparison site (http://www.cameratown.com/articles/dslr_cinematography.cfm), there's an ad for the Z finder and the short comparison video (http://www.cameratown.com/reviews/zacuto/zfinderv2/)makes the Hoodman unit look like a total piece of junk while they devote like 90% of the piece to the Z finder.

If I need the Zacuto unit, I'll get it. But I'm not starting with it.

Oh also, there are a bunch of positive comments for the Hoodman unit on here:

http://www.amazon.com/Hoodman-H-LPP3-HoodLoupe-Professional-3-Inch/product-reviews/B001N0KEWU/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?ie=UTF8&coliid=&showViewpoints=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

And here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/573167-REG/Hoodman_H_LPP3_HoodLoupe_Professional_LCD_Screen.h tml#reviews

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[david_p]

I just ordered the HLPP3 last night so I'll have to return to this thread and let you know how it is when I get it. I had a Hoodman unit (not a loupe) for my Nikon DSLR that was a piece of junk, so I'm no huge fan of Hoodman, but the thing seems reasonable (looking). I'd have a hard time believing it's much worse than the $400. unit that has to attach with an adhesive (no thanks) or some rubber bands.

I'm guessing Zacuto builds marketing costs into the price of the Z finder so they can pay bloggers to rave about it. It's interesting on this comparison site (http://www.cameratown.com/articles/dslr_cinematography.cfm), there's an ad for the Z finder and the short comparison video (http://www.cameratown.com/reviews/zacuto/zfinderv2/)makes the Hoodman unit look like a total piece of junk while they devote like 90% of the piece to the Z finder.

If I need the Zacuto unit, I'll get it. But I'm not starting with it.

Oh also, there are a bunch of positive comments for the Hoodman unit on here:

http://www.amazon.com/Hoodman-H-LPP3-HoodLoupe-Professional-3-Inch/product-reviews/B001N0KEWU/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?ie=UTF8&coliid=&showViewpoints=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

.

actually Zacuto doesnt need to pay people to rave about the Zfinder. people that have it use it and appreciate it will speak highly of it becuase it *is* good and thats what people do on these forums and the internet.

its fine to not want to buy the Zfinder and i dont really care but you obviously have used *none* of the above mentioned items so your comments are *only* impressions from what you have seen and read on the web and cant seem to see past the $400 price tag.

i probably wont ever buy another Zacuto product since i think most of their rigging it a bit high for my tastes but the Zfinder is another story. the vast majority of people that have used the various loupes tend to agree that the Zfinder is the best bet right now. i happen to agree and i did use the Hoodloupe for months before i stepped up to the Zfinder.

price? $400? you get what you pay for. the hoodloupe is worth its price tag IMO and works pretty good. the Zfinder is worth its price also and is better than the Hoodloupe. the extra $300 may not be worth it for some but for me that wants the best...well worth paying for.

also..the adhesive you are whining about is not a problem in the least. your making assumptions that you have no real hands on experience with. there is *NO* stickiness left on your camera in the least and yes...i have taken it off and put it back on to see for myself.

buy what you want and be happy.

for others though i would suggest that you seek out peoples opinions on the net (google search) that have actually used the eyepiece loupes being discussed if you want the real story.

david
www.davidprobst.com

[yoclay]

I've used them all, the Z-finder is good and solid, but it sounds like you would prefer the LCDVF. It's good as well as does not overexaggerate the pixels. It's worth the relatively inexpensive price. The hoodloupe is garbage next to these two finders.

Personally I think the most important tool of all doesn't need a viewfinder. The pixel-assist is terrific.

[david_p]

I've used them all, the Z-finder is good and solid, but it sounds like you would prefer the LCDVF. It's good as well as does not overexaggerate the pixels. It's worth the relatively inexpensive price. The hoodloupe is garbage next to these two finders.

Personally I think the most important tool of all doesn't need a viewfinder. The pixel-assist is terrific.

except that the pixel-assist is worth nothing if the scene is changing and subject moving that you need to stay focused on.

its very faithful and handy for initial focus though.
david
www.davidprobst.com

[Chris Santucci]

actually Zacuto doesnt need to pay people to rave about the Zfinder.


And yet they do.

For 400 bucks, that's the best they could come up with to attach the thing? Adhesive, and rubber bands (that they charge for)? And I'm "whining?" I think we all know by now that adhesives, velcro, and rubber bands are short term solutions and I'd say it's pretty weak from a design standpoint.

It looks great, I admit, but there's just no way possible I'm going to wrap rubber bands around my camera to hold a 400 dollar piece of gear on there.Not happening.

And let me ask you this: In terms of value, design, craftsmanship, and cost, how does the Z finder compare to the Redrock Micro mattebox? That's stuff I think about when I decide whether I want to support a company that designs and manufactures this kind of gear, so no they're not my first option either.

And, I know very well "the real story" of how the interweb works and I take full advantage of it for research purposes. And when I see a veritable movement of epic proportions spring up around one tiny piece of gear made out of plastic with every single video tech blogger doing backflips over it, sorry, I get a little leery (even though I'll admit it may very well be warranted).

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[ronscuba]

Cost aside, I have one and like it. From what I've read, those that have it, like it and if you believe the reviews, it's currently the best option out there. If better options come out it will be interesting if Zacuto drops their price.

[f64manray]

Cost aside, I have one and like it. From what I've read, those that have it, like it and if you believe the reviews, it's currently the best option out there. If better options come out it will be interesting if Zacuto drops their price.

Well, they already have (it's coming) the Z finder junior without the diopter adjustment which will sell for $200 which I'm sure is a response to the LCDVF.

[david_p]

And yet they do.

For 400 bucks, that's the best they could come up with to attach the thing? Adhesive, and rubber bands (that they charge for)? And I'm "whining?" I think we all know by now that adhesives, velcro, and rubber bands are short term solutions and I'd say it's pretty weak from a design standpoint.

It looks great, I admit, but there's just no way possible I'm going to wrap rubber bands around my camera to hold a 400 dollar piece of gear on there.Not happening.

And let me ask you this: In terms of value, design, craftsmanship, and cost, how does the Z finder compare to the Redrock Micro mattebox? That's stuff I think about when I decide whether I want to support a company that designs and manufactures this kind of gear, so no they're not my first option either.

And, I know very well "the real story" of how the interweb works and I take full advantage of it for research purposes. And when I see a veritable movement of epic proportions spring up around one tiny piece of gear made out of plastic with every single video tech blogger doing backflips over it, sorry, I get a little leery (even though I'll admit it may very well be warranted).

.

my opinions of the Hoodman and Zfinder are based actually user experience.

you have adverse feelings about the way the Zfinder mounts? ok, to each his own and were all entitled to our opinions. but in your case you cant say from 1st hand experience. what i dont get is that you cleanly dismiss all the options but you have tried none of them but still are solidly conclusive against.

i would agree that to determine that rubberbands looks stupid you dont really need to have one in your hand to determine that but in the case of the adhesive...i was a little skeptical but chilled once i saw that it did work nicely.

the adhesive bracket from Zacuto does actually work and i can say from first hand experience...but i dont expect you to take my word for it. i personlly think the rubber band idea is the worst. initially thats what i did with the Hoodloupe until the below example.

i did the rubberband thing with the hoodman until DP Norman Bonney turned me on to this...
http://www.normanbonney.com/hoodloupe.html
this was the best of all options for me while i used the Hoodloupe. not sure i want to cut into my Zfinder yet though but i want too. probably would void my warranty.

i think for video purposes the adhesive bracket is brilliant. with that said i dont like having it on there and in the way for shooting photography, so i guess we cant have it all.

by the way even with the simple velcro that i used to hold the Hoodloupe didnt leave any residue once taken off.

now, if im correct i think you are asking me to compare a Zfinder to a RR mattebox...? i dont think i get the question especially if i take it literal. if you meant to say how does Zacuto compare to RR? if that was supposed to be the question then i have some feelings but no tangibles since i have never seen in the flesh or either systems in action....

i suspect that Zacuto is premium quality and of course at a major premium price. from the bundles of post and comparisons i have read i gather the RR is very near in quality to Zacuto for a more reasonable (but still not cheap) price.

i **think** i would be happy with an EYESPY rig from RR someday but im just not that hungry for that kind of rig yet and i like what im using for now. i wish i could try these systems for real. id have to drive 5 hours to get my hands on one of the brands at least. someday i will probably have to do that.

one observation i have noticed is that i have...NEVER...EVER...heard/read even one comment from a person saying that they didnt think that their Zacuto rig was anything but top notch. all seem to accept that they basically paid for top notch quality. paid dearly but still happy it seems. whether i or you like that...it does speak volumes for the company IMO.

i have seen many that say they think the RR rigs are near 90% of the quality of the Zacuto. people tend to feel that the Zacuto will survive a lifetime and are happy. some mix parts between the 2 systems. my *impression* is that i would be happy with a RR eyespy rig when ready to buy. wish i could touch them though

there is right now only one product from Zacuto that i have interest in and thats the Zfinder. i would have paid a lot more if i would had to. for other items i dont expect i will go the Zacuto route though. i will probably have to make the best guess with RR.

what amazes me is all of the general outrage that someone should have to pay $400 for a simple little nothing eyepiece?...??? IMO that mere $400 is really the KEY element to allow all other things to fall in place with the shooting experience. compared to my 4 pro DSLR's, bundles of canon L glass and nikon glass plus my investment in my EX1 and HMC150 plus acs...blah blah...etc....a ***$400 purchase*** isnt even on my radar for the benefit it brings to the shooting experience. i think people need to put it in perspective a bit before the typical knee jerk reactions that many seem to have.

if you think im harping on you then i will say right now that im sorry and is not my intent... but rather to consider opening up your mind a little for your own benefit. i hope your happy with the Hoodloupe but i think you will have spent near a $100 and find that it will fall short and then what...start over with another eyepiece? i think that if your vision is good then the LCDVF looks very good as a quality but cheaper alternative. i need the diopter so its a no go for me and i already bought the Zfinder a long time ago. i think the 2X on the LCDVF will be good. would i like it better than the 3x on the Zfinder? i dont know because i would have to look thru both to really judge. my gut feeling is that both would be a bit of a wash as far as 2x vs 3x. i am happy now with what i have and just go and shoot with no fear of being able to grab focus.

again, not trying to be combative but rather just offer some first hand experience. hope the Hoodloupe works out for you!

david
www.davidprobst.com

[Chris Santucci]

No, it's all good, David. I want something that works just like anyone else, but as someone who does some design and fabrication, and someone who (like most of us on here) is trying to do more with less, I tend to regard the Z people much differently than companies like Redrock Micro, Shoot 35, Coollights, etc.

I mention the Redrock Mattebox because that's an example of a crucial piece of gear that was engineered well that's affordable. Regular folks can afford it and I'm pretty sure from an R&D, manufacturing, and materials standpoint the Z finder pales compared to the RRM mattebox and yet it's close to the same cost.

If the hoodman proves to not be sufficient enough for my needs, I'll probably get one of these (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=ProductDetail&A=showItemLargeImage&Q=&sku=616830&is=REG) and put it on this (http://www.adorama.com/catlite.tpl?op=large_image&sku=SR67MN.JPG).

.

[yoclay]

Hey Chris,
i grew up in Buffalo. Live in Paris now. Nice to see that Buffalo's got a budding indie/film community. Very encouraging.


PS> sorry to have briefly hijacked the thread

[Vince K]

No, it's all good, David. I want something that works just like anyone else, but as someone who does some design and fabrication, and someone who (like most of us on here) is trying to do more with less, I tend to consider the Z people much differently than companies like Redrock Micro, Shoot 35, Coollights, etc.



why don't you do a DIY version to your fave specs then? There are a bunch out there.
Just a thought...

[jagstang]

Am I crazy? With all the raving going on about Z-Finder's I was surprised to find that I found it significantly easier to judge focus without the thing on.

You might be crazy but your not alone :)

I just got one and posted a review - I had the same initial thoughts about it.

http://www.pauljoy.com/gear/zacuto-z-finder-v2/

Be interested to know if you think the view simulation matches what you see?

[mcgeedigital]

Love my Zfinder so much I just bought a 2nd used one from someone who was so obviously disenfranchised with it as some of the posters here.

[david_p]

Love my Zfinder so much I just bought a 2nd used one from someone who was so obviously disenfranchised with it as some of the posters here.

so, how much does a used Zfinder go for?

david
www.davidprobst.com

[Jester2138]

You might be crazy but your not alone :)

I just got one and posted a review - I had the same initial thoughts about it.

http://www.pauljoy.com/gear/zacuto-z-finder-v2/

Be interested to know if you think the view simulation matches what you see?

I had the same thoughts you did. Your images do a pretty good job of showing the issue with the ginormous pixels. Basically I found that if I couldn't focus with the LCD screen then I couldn't focus with the Z-Finder. All it does is make it BIGGER, not more detailed. You can already see all the pixels with the bare LCD, so the Z-Finder just makes it harder by blowing the thing up so big. I'd love to see a LCDVF and see if it's easier on the eyes.

[f64manray]

You might be crazy but your not alone :)

I just got one and posted a review - I had the same initial thoughts about it.

http://www.pauljoy.com/gear/zacuto-z-finder-v2/

Be interested to know if you think the view simulation matches what you see?

Thanks fot the review. In your review you state:


The biggest problem for me is that it magnifies the LCD on my 5DmkII so much that the resulting image is so low in resolution it makes focusing harder than it is without it fitted. The magnification is so high that every pixel and the gap around it is clearly visible.

I totally believe your experience. What I can't understand is why you and the OP of this thread are the only people to have stated this opinion after months of the Z Finder being in the market place. Looking at your example in your review of what you see through the Z finder is totally unacceptable. I have no idea why more people haven't mentioned this! It looks like my 4X Mamiya loupe when I've tried to use it on the 5DII, and it's total sh*t to judge anything by.

I would rather use the 10X magnification of the 5DII than suffer trying to judge focus with that. I have a Small HD external monitor and that is excellent to judge focus by, but I want another option for when that isn't practical.

I'm hoping the 2X of the LCDVF that I've ordered works. I'm wondering if the Hoodman in conjunction with the magnification feature of the 5DII may not be the best option of all.

I'm not really sure why I'm so pissed off by this, but I am! :-)

[jagstang]

I have no idea why more people haven't mentioned this! It looks like my 4X Mamiya loupe when I've tried to use it on the 5DII, and it's total sh*t to judge anything by.

Actually I've read a few reviews today where people felt the magnification was a little strong for the 5D2. In reality the Z-Finder is doing it's job perfectly, if the LCD were higher resolution it would work a treat. The problem is that it's not so I can't help feeling that a Loupe with lower magnification would be better, at least in the case of the 5D2.

It's really not sh*t though, if you can get used to focusing using the pixelated image it's perfectly usable. I just prefer to not see the image pixelated.

[david_p]

no matter what eyepiece magnifier you use you will realize that the resolution on the LCD is not great enough to be notably sharp. the sooner you accept that the better it will be for you to adapt and move forward.

with that said the Hoodloupe 1-1 ratio vs the Zfinder 3x leaves you in exactly the same the same place....an image that isnt really as sharp as you want it to be.

i see it as....you have to ****LEARN**** how to *feel* focus with *what you have* looking thru any of the eyepieces. its not perfect at anytime and no one magnifier will make it perfect. if you cant accept that then you are in denial and will never adapt.

for me when i use the Zfinder vs the Hoodloupe i can see and focus on the *smaller* things in the frame much better than when using the lesser magnification. still though its all technically lacking in resolution. but still using the resolution available i can easily see when its *in or out*. i did notice the pixel thing when i first got it and it and was a little un-nerved by it but got over it after a few minutes becuase i found it to be way better than the 1-1 ration of the Hoodloupe. but then that is me and for some they may do better with the lesser magnification. it really just a serious of trade offs i believe.

i think you havent heard people complain about this because they have accepted that the LCD's are not very sharp to start with and moved on with the best bet available since there are no other choices...at least... until the LCD's are made with twice the current resolution. that wont happen anytime soon though.

maybe an external 7" HDMI monitor would be better suited for a few of you. larger to deal with but would be sharper and very nice to look at but just cant be as easily mobile.

david
www.davidprobst.com

[jagstang]

for me when i use the Zfinder vs the Hoodloupe i can see and focus on the *smaller* things in the frame much better than when using the lesser magnification.

If your focusing during a shot then I agree, it is possible to pick out a bit more detail by pushing / pulling focus using the Z-Finder than without it at all, but my point was that maybe slightly less magnification would be a better middle ground. What I found was that its difficult to look through the Z-Finder and judge if a shot was is focus without pushing / pulling around the focal point once or twice. That might be something that you have to learn, and in fact I think I'm already starting to somewhat.

Everyone has there own preferences though.

[david_p]

If your focusing during a shot then I agree, it is possible to pick out a bit more detail by pushing / pulling focus using the Z-Finder than without it at all, but my point was that maybe slightly less magnification would be a better middle ground. What I found was that its difficult to look through the Z-Finder and judge if a shot was is focus without pushing / pulling around the focal point once or twice. That might be something that you have to learn, and in fact I think I'm already starting to somewhat.

Everyone has there own preferences though.

ive havent tried the 2x so i cant say but i would guess that the LCDVF might be just as effective as the Zfinder even though lesser x. it wasnt available when i got the Zfinder but i wouldnt have gone that way anyway since there is no diopter. besides that though it looks to be a very competent unit.

the lack of resolution is a reality on these LCD's. i feel it on the Hoodloupe and Zfinder. i still get better focus on the Zfiinder and i like the close up vibe where everything is big and the i dont even really notice the pixel thing after the first bit of working with it.

the good thing is that there are more choices than 6 months ago and soon will be more. maybe LCDVF will eventually come out with a model that has a diopter. it would give the Zfinder a good run for its money.

david
www.davidprobst.com

[PSA1]

For me Z-finder is a must, can not shoot without it, some of you don't make sense, you said all it does is magnify and not make the picture any sharper, well if the edge of an object is bigger, it is easier to see when it is at the sharperst than a smaller picture, can't you see that, do you know why they have a 5x and 10x magnify button on the camera to help you focus, any other video camera also have magnify button to help focus because when a object is larger it is easier to see the edge or contrast is at the max or not, I think some of you need to learn how to focus before start making reviews.

[jonE5]

z finder or any other finder over the price of $20 would be hte last thing i would ever buy.

So many other important pieces you need first.

Good tripod, rig, steadycam, slider, etc... etc...

Do your research before you buy.

[david_p]

z finder or any other finder over the price of $20 would be hte last thing i would ever buy.

So many other important pieces you need first.

Good tripod, rig, steadycam, slider, etc... etc...

Do your research before you buy.

what good is all of that other gear if you cant get your shots in focus?

interesting! :grin:

david
www.davidprobst.com

[PSA1]

what good is all of that other gear if you cant get your shots in focus?

Interesting! :grin:

David
www.davidprobst.com (http://www.davidprobst.com)

amen.

[jonE5]

lol, most of these DSLR have a 3" screen or bigger.

I dunno, i use a 50mm 1.8 all the time, and have no issues focusing. Id say maybe 1 or 2% of shots might come out SLIGHTLY out of focus, if even that. And im talking pulling focus by hand all day. I was at a wedding over the weekend, and took some video all hand held with my d90, and of course used the 1.8 at full wide, so DOF was very small. As i panned around the room, i had to change focus by hand at each persons face. I checked the footage on my 50" panny and it looked fine (other than my shaky hands, lol)

Again, didnt mean to say it wasnt important or useful, just meant to say that there are MANY other pieces of equipment you should have in your bag first.

[Jester2138]

what good is all of that other gear if you cant get your shots in focus?

interesting! :grin:

david
www.davidprobst.com (http://www.davidprobst.com)

My point is that I have no trouble keeping it in focus without the $400 Zacuto thing on there and actually find it harder with it on. I'm sure we all have our own preferences, but I'll almost certainly be going for a LCDVF.

[Chris Santucci]

My point is that I have no trouble keeping it in focus without the $400 Zacuto thing on there and actually find it harder with it on. I'm sure we all have our own preferences, but I'll almost certainly be going for a LCDVF.


Interesting! :thumbsup:

.

[hdimages.ca]

I just got the lcdfv and works great. when i use it run and gun ,i use the eye as a contact point but fogs up right away. I was thinking it would be great to put a little 1/2 inch doughnut pad on the eye piece . i will be trying some anti fog but need to get some distance eyeball and glass.

[Chris Santucci]

Yeah, I read somewhere that people are putting an eyepiece chamois (http://www.filmtools.com/eychamsmal.html) on the hood to help prevent the fogging.

.

[Kholi]

My point is that I have no trouble keeping it in focus without the $400 Zacuto thing on there and actually find it harder with it on. I'm sure we all have our own preferences, but I'll almost certainly be going for a LCDVF.

No knocks against the Z-Finder as it looks like a great piece of equipment, but, I agree.

If the 7D's screen was articulating I would have little-to-zero need for an extra monitor.

As it stands, a 150.00 SD LCD on Ebay will do just fine.

[OPHERBA]

I got both the Z-finder and the LCDVF.
If you don't have glasses go with the LCDVF, there in absolutely NO justification buying the Z-finder now that the LCDVF is out.

Spinning the wheel in the Z-finder which supposed to be the diopter does very little (unlike in a normal or pro video camera) so everything stays in focus all the time. The bigger problem is the thread. When turning the diopter the thread is out of the Z-finder body exposed for dust or send.

And like others wrote, the LCD on the 7d is low res and any magnifier out there is magnifying its limitation...


Thanks.

Johnnie

[jagstang]

For me Z-finder is a must, can not shoot without it, some of you don't make sense, you said all it does is magnify and not make the picture any sharper, well if the edge of an object is bigger, it is easier to see when it is at the sharperst than a smaller picture, can't you see that, do you know why they have a 5x and 10x magnify button on the camera to help you focus, any other video camera also have magnify button to help focus because when a object is larger it is easier to see the edge or contrast is at the max or not, I think some of you need to learn how to focus before start making reviews.

I don't think your really grasping what were talking about here. Using a cameras built in expanded focus is very different to magnifying the LCD with a viewer.

By using the 5x / 10x button on the back of the camera the resulting image is still displayed using the LCD's maximum pixel density, and is extremely helpful for focusing. Enlarging the LCD display with a magnifying viewer though only makes the screen look bigger, it does make the object look bigger but the information visible remains the same - just bigger. Once the individual pixels become visible I think it starts to then become harder to focus.

After a certain point It's like standing with your face right up to a 50" plasma TV, the pixels are bigger but it doesn't make it any easier to see the details.

[mrogers]

I have been reading this thread and thought it was about time I chime in. At Zacuto, we prefer the 3x magnification (critical focus is difficult with DSLR's) and many of our customers prefer the 3x magnification as well. However, some people are interested in a 2.5x magnification so we have decided to manufacture a 2.5x optic. By the end of March, customers will have the choice to purchase a z-finder with a 2.5x magnification or a 3x magnification. There will be an upgrade path for customers who own the 3x magnification z-finder and would rather have a 2.5x magnification. This is a personal preference but Zacuto is a company that responds quickly to customers requests. If your going to be at NAB, stop by our booth and try both out for yourself!

[Ron Rodenmeyer]

I might need 3x magnification to read that black on grey text!

[Chris Santucci]

I might need 3x magnification to read that black on grey text!


:grin:

.

[andrew00]

Today I was filming some bands with three lenses, all canon's, 50 1.4, 28 1.8, 85 1.8.

I used the z-finder for the first song and it was the only time I used it.

No way I could get accurate focus on it, everything was just too soft, the lcd might be small but at least I can see the focus.

Somewhat at a loss with the z-finder, cost a lot of money and loved by everyone...except me.

[david_p]

I have been reading this thread and thought it was about time I chime in. At Zacuto, we prefer the 3x magnification (critical focus is difficult with DSLR's) and many of our customers prefer the 3x magnification as well. However, some people are interested in a 2.5x magnification so we have decided to manufacture a 2.5x optic. By the end of March, customers will have the choice to purchase a z-finder with a 2.5x magnification or a 3x magnification. There will be an upgrade path for customers who own the 3x magnification z-finder and would rather have a 2.5x magnification. This is a personal preference but Zacuto is a company that responds quickly to customers requests. If your going to be at NAB, stop by our booth and try both out for yourself!

curious why 2.5x and not 2x. seems like having more seperation from the 3x would keep a lot of people happy having another option. is the one you speaking of the Zfinder Junior? just really curious why the 2.5x and not just a little lower.

im a happy user but obviously there are others here in this thread that want less magnification.

thanks
david
www.davidprobst.com
most recent music video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4sQfHD_b_E

[mtan]

weird, i have the Cavision wth 6x magnification and can focus great with it. But I don't like it for a variety of other reasons and will probably get the lcdvf, if possible. :)

[Chris Santucci]

I have the Hoodloupe and I can't imagine how the z finder is worth over 300 bucks more. Maybe if it had a varifocal lens on it, I could see it. The Hoodloupe offers no magnification at all - it's a 1 to 1 magnification ratio and has a really wide diopter range. So wide, I can use it with or without my glasses and I have a pretty healthy correction with my glasses.

In just the few minutes I spent messing around with the Hoodloupe, I seemed to be able to focus accurately and I imagine once used to the screen, it'll get even easier to judge focus.

I'm not sure magnification is the way to go with these devices but it seems to make a lot of sense to use a lens that allows a moderate range of magnification ranging from 1 to 1 up to maybe 3 to 1.

.

[david_p]

i think the only fair conclusion to draw from all of this debate over eyepiece loupes is that different things work for different people. some like it big, some want a little less magnification, some want that 1 to 1 thing, some just like the to use the LCD, some dont like anything at all and they all suck, some like rubberbands to hold it on, some like stick on thingys. its almost as pointless as discussing politics of dem vs repub vs indie...but

for those of us that have settled on a paticular loupe i guess were lucky because we now have perfect focus. the only thing left is the poor guys/girls that havent made up their minds yet and have to sift thru our blabber...lol!

good luck to those people!

david
www.davidprobst.com

now go and buy the Zfinder because ITS THE BEST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

only kidding...really!

[Jester2138]

for those of us that have settled on a paticular loupe i guess were lucky because we now have perfect focus. the only thing left is the poor guys/girls that havent made up their minds yet and have to sift thru our blabber...lol!

good luck to those people!

I bet you 10 bucks I can get just as accurate focus on the bare LCD screen as you can get with your $400 piece of plastic :D

[mikeshu]

And for 600 bucks you can get an ikan 5600 to focus at HD resolution :-P

A rig is best to mount something like that on though, so not so good an option for bare shooting. For looking cool, having it mounted on a redrock microshoulder mount with matte box impresses the ladies.

[andrew00]

Yeah that's why I'm hoping the firmware upgrade for the 5d increases the resolution when recording to 1080i, like the 7d. I was all ready to sell my z-finder and try the lcdvf but have decided to wait and see if the res changes for recording. In the meantime I got in on the group buy at cinema5d and have one of those cheap monitors on the way to give a go, at least I can articulate it!

[david_p]

I bet you 10 bucks I can get just as accurate focus on the bare LCD screen as you can get with your $400 piece of plastic :D

ill bet my dad can beat up your dad! :nads:

:2vrolijk_08:

i think this thread has run its course.

its been sooooooo fun though!:grin:

david
www.davidprobst.com

[Jester2138]

i think this thread has run its course.

its been sooooooo fun though!:grin:

Why? Are you afraid there are more people with less than stellar experiences with the Z-Finder?
:huh::grin:
We aren't saying it's bad, we're just stating our experience - that it hasn't helped one bit with focusing. Maybe other people find it helps, but we sure don't.

[david_p]

Why? Are you afraid there are more people with less than stellar experiences with the Z-Finder?
:huh::grin:
We aren't saying it's bad, we're just stating our experience - that it hasn't helped one bit with focusing. Maybe other people find it helps, but we sure don't.

if there is more to add to this thread then please keep posting. for anyone that hasnt purchased a loupe yet and cant test one in person to try, all they can do is read internet threads to try come to conclusion of which one to buy...or not use one at all.

there are back to back threads here right now with good info on all the loupes and good cases of people preferring to use none at all. these two threads have probably been the best balance for all of the options that i have seen so far. everyone made a case for their preference which gives people that have no experience with loupes something to think about from all side.

the fact that you dont like the Zfinder is quite alright with me. everyone should use what works.

david
www.davidprobst.com

[mhood]

I have the LCDVF and while I'm undecided how much help it is with focusing, I certainly appreciate the help seeing the LCD in bright sunlight. It also seems to help me be a bit more steady handheld.

[Chris Santucci]

I'm good with the Hoodloupe for now, and only plan on using it when shooting outdoors in bright ambience hand held if I cannot use an onboard monitor with a hood which I think will be far superior even at SD resolution.

I'm not convinced a pixel enlarger is really helpful since it's groups of pixels that show unsharpness, not the pixels themselves.

I'm hopeful the new firmware will have some good things.

.

[f64manray]

I just got my LCDVF. I'm relieved to say the pixels don't seem huge or distracting as was reported about the Z finder earlier. It really seems just right in that regard.

I have a little trouble seeing things up close (perfect vision otherwise) and was hoping the LCDVF would work, but it seems just a hair off for my vision. This was easily overcome. I went to Wal-Mart and bought a $7 pair of +1.00 reading glasses and popped out one of the lenses and tucked between the supplied red eye cup cushion and the black rubber eyecup of the LCDVF. I'm surprised at how well this stays in place. If you do this, I would look for reading glasses with a bigger lens as I think it will stay in place better.

One of the things I really like about the LCDVF is that when the viewfinder is removed, the metal bracket that the LCDVF attaches to isn't really noticable and certainly doesn't get in your way when using it as a still camera. I haven't tried it but the bracket on the Z Finder seemed like it could get annoying when used as a still camera. Just a little detail but it was a consideration.

So, for me 2X is better than 3X magnification and the attachment mechanism is better and less intrusive than the Z Finder.

[Chris Santucci]

They say it has "about 2.8x" magnification and there's no diopter correction.

For $160., I'm not so sure about that configuration...

.

[f64manray]

They say it has "about 2.8x" magnification and there's no diopter correction.

For $160., I'm not so sure about that configuration...

.

They say no diopter correction but it's still usable fom +1 to -4. It only cost me an extra $7 to get the optics to where I need it.

[f64manray]

Just wanted to add a quick update to my LCDVF experience for those that may not have perfect vision.

I decided to bump the inserted lens to a +1.50. It seems pretty sharp and then if I lift the loop maybe a 1/4 inch or so away from the LCD screen, it gets even sharper. I'm still fiddling with it trying to decide if bumping lens up to +2.00 would help. I think it would help if LCDVF made a bracket that actually shimmed the view finder just a little further away from the screen. I think Zacuto is already doing this with their Z Finder.

[david_p]

I have the Hoodloupe and I can't imagine how the z finder is worth over 300 bucks more. Maybe if it had a varifocal lens on it, I could see it. The Hoodloupe offers no magnification at all - it's a 1 to 1 magnification ratio and has a really wide diopter range. So wide, I can use it with or without my glasses and I have a pretty healthy correction with my glasses.

In just the few minutes I spent messing around with the Hoodloupe, I seemed to be able to focus accurately and I imagine once used to the screen, it'll get even easier to judge focus.

I'm not sure magnification is the way to go with these devices but it seems to make a lot of sense to use a lens that allows a moderate range of magnification ranging from 1 to 1 up to maybe 3 to 1.

.

wearing glasses with the Hoodloupe didnt work for me because then i couldnt press in close enough to see the full LCD frame. when i tried by pressing hard to get close id end up with oil and persperation from my skin on my glasses from muching it all together. glasses suck.

even though my vision isnt the best without my glasses when using the Hoodloupe i was able to get good focus so the diopter is very effective even for vision that is far from perfect like mine.

ive seen a few people put a different eyepiece cushion than the one that comes on it. that could change the result? an important thing to consider with the Hoodlooupe is that the diameter of the Hoodloupe glass is not very big which is why you need to get as close as possible to see the full frame.

david
www.davidprobst.com

[Chris Santucci]

I wear glasses and I can see the whole LCD with the Hoodloupe, no problem. But yeah, it's not advisable to use the thing with and without glasses since the oils get transferred to the front of the eyeglasses.

.

[david_p]

I wear glasses and I can see the whole LCD with the Hoodloupe, no problem. But yeah, it's not advisable to use the thing with and without glasses since the oils get transferred to the front of the eyeglasses.

.

i actually liked using the Hoodloupe without glasses more but i tended to misplace them too many times by forgetting to pick them up again. argh!

david
www.davidprobst.com

[shortguy]

I have not used any other loupe so take this as you will. I thought the z-finder was definitely overpriced. However, with a nice large Christmas bonus just burning a hole in my pocket, I decided to take the plunge and go for it. My first look through the z-finder, I was seriously amazed! I brought it up to my school and several other classmates and teachers were also in awe of how great it looked. Fast forward to a real chance to try it out for a music video...I found it was extremely helpful. Focusing was a breeze, especially using my Nikon 50mm 1.2 and it's shallow DOF, I had no room for error. Using the expanded focus in conjunction with the z-finder helped me out immensely. That being said, I'm sure any loupe would help, however, I liked how close to the screen the z-finder allows you to get. Even having lasic eye surgery and better than perfect vision, it's still helpful. Overall, was it worth it for me? Yes, I would buy it again in a heartbeat. The quality is great! The only complaint I have is that the lens sometimes fogs up, but that is a problem that can be easily solved with some anti-fog spray. Will I ever buy any Zacuto product again, maybe. Just because I love my Z-finder doesn't mean I agree with the pricing on their other equipment.

[Jester2138]

Yesterday I remembered I had a bunch of close-up filters from my 35mm adapter days. They were sitting right next to some cardboard and I kinda put two and two together and thought, "Hey... DIY project coming up." Anyway so after using the Z-Finder and finding the 3x too much, I found a combo of filters (+4 and +10) that did it for me. It's certainly less than the Z-Finder but still fairly significant. Whatever level of magnification it is is perfect for me. I'm now planning on making a new DIY loupe thata isn't wrapped in duct tape or attached with rubber bands... It more or less does the exact same thing as a commercial loupe like the LCDVF or Z-Finder but didn't cost me a penny, just fifteen minutes. Yay for DIY!

[deadfish]

dude just get a LCDVF - if you don't wear glasses it's perfecto and cheap and cheerful
if you do Z-finder might be the one.

[mtan]

I wear glasses and the LCDVF works great for me