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Shawn Storm
12-17-2009, 07:22 PM
Hi People,

I apologize if this has already been covered. I did a search and couldn't find an answer to my question.

I am now using Final Cut Express instead of iMovie (thank god). I am mostly using AVCHD 720p / 60 fps with my GH1. It doesn't appear that I can work with 60 fps footage in Final Cut Express. Is this true? Does this mean I will need to upgrade to FCP to be able to edit at 60 fps?

I am also wondering about Slow Motion in FCE. When I slow down my 60 fps footage to 50% it ends up doubling the frames even though I am working in a 30 fps sequence. I was hoping it would simply cut the frames in half and create a smooth slow motion effect (as many of you are doing). Is this not possible with FCE? Do I have to upgrade to FCP to be able to do this? :(

Thanks in advance for any help that comes my way!

-storm-

pailes
12-17-2009, 10:14 PM
How do you import your footage? I assume you're transcoding to .mov with AIC codec? If so, how do you transcode the footage?

Shawn Storm
12-18-2009, 09:14 AM
I have been simply plugging my camera in and importing footage using "Log and Transfer". It appears to convert the MTS files from the camera into AIC files stored on my HD.

When I look at the imported footage in the FCE browser the files show up as 1280 x 720, 59.94 fps, AIC format, 48 KHz audio.

Shawn Storm
12-18-2009, 09:53 AM
By the way - I just tried calling Apple Technical support and they were no help. I spent 20 minutes arguing with the guy about whether my camera can capture 720/60p footage! He kept saying that there is no such thing as 720/60p footage and kept telling me that my footage is interlaced! I read him the tech specs from the manual and he finally came around to believing me. :)

Anyways - he couldn't answer my questions and he even went on to claim that Final Cut Pro can't work with 720/60p footage. Is that true?? I thought lots of people in this forum are using FCP for 60p footage?? He must of had no idea what he was talking about?

pailes
12-18-2009, 09:58 AM
Don't trust the tech support guy, he doesn't know sh*t. The thing is Final Cut adjusts the framerate of your video to the sequence settings. If you have a sequence for 720p with 30 fps it will reduce 60 fps footage to 30 and if you try to slow it down it will double the frames for 30 fps rather than just leaving the original footage as it is.

So basically you have two options:
1. Cut your entire sequence in 60 fps and do regular 50% slowmo and afterwards reduce to 30 fps if you really need it.
2. Get Final Cut Studio, cut your sequence in 30 fps and if you want to have a smooth slowmo, take the clip into "Cinema Tools" and conform the clip to 30 fps and re-import that clip into Final Cut Pro.

Shawn Storm
12-18-2009, 12:09 PM
Thanks for the suggestions Pailes.

Unfortunately I cannot have a sequence set to 720p/60. It simply isn't an option in FCE. I can import 720p/60 footage into the browser and it will show it at 60 fps in the viewer, but as soon as I place it on the timeline it is converted to 30 fps.

I would love to get Final Cut Studio, but I just bought FCE and I simply cannot afford to upgrade to Studio at this point.

There *MUST* be a way to get smooth slow motion from my 720p/60 footage and be able to edit it in FCE. Has anyone out there specifically done this? (Or perhaps you are all using Final Cut Studio) Maybe there is a simple program out there that will simply take the 720p/60 AIC file (or MTS file) and convert it to smooth slow motion in 720p/30? Quicktime Pro? Shareware program? Any way other than having to spend my life savings on Final Cut Studio? :)

If I am understanding properly, the way that the smooth slow motion is created is simply by taking the 60 fps footage and converting it to 30 fps while retaining ALL the original frames? Am I correct? So a 1 minute 720p/60 clip would become a 2 minute 720p/30 clip in smooth slow motion at 50% speed right?

-storm-

dvbrother
12-18-2009, 12:22 PM
I believe JES Deinterlacer, which is a free program many GH1 owners are using to deinterlace 1080 29.97 footage to 24p, also does re-timing. I would investigate that. It may allow you to change the speed of the clip just like Cinema Tools does. After that, bring it into your timeline in FCE.Voila! Smooth Slo-Mo.

Shawn Storm
12-18-2009, 01:29 PM
Thanks for the tip dvbrother, I will check it out.

I am coming across another weird thing that I can't figure out. When I import my footage using "log and transfer" the browser says the footage is 1280x720, but when I look at the media file using Quicktime Pro it says the actual pixel size is 1248x702. I called Apple about this and they said it is because the GH1 is not supported by FCE or FCP. Do any of you folks using Final Cut Studio have this happen? I was under the assumption that "Log and Transfer" is the same on FCE as it is on FCP so I would assume you would?

Shawn Storm
12-18-2009, 01:42 PM
I tried out JES Deinterlacer but was unable to figure out a way to convert the 60p footage to a smooth slow motion file in 30p. If anyone in this forum has specifically used JES to do this I would love a step by step description oh how to go about it while retaining maximum image quality. :)

Shawn Storm
12-19-2009, 03:21 PM
After many many hours of searching the internet I finally figured out why QT is saying my 720p footage is 1248 x 702 pixels in size!

Everyone take note (this is QuickTime issue, not a FCE issue): Quicktime has a new feature called "Conform Aperture" which can be accessed by showing movie properties and selecting the "Presentation" settings. It defaults to the "Clean" setting which automatically crops the image based upon the aperture setting (to avoid fuzzy edges?). Weird stuff. Here is a link to find out more about the "Conform Aperture" feature of QT:

http://support.apple.com/kb/TA24215?viewlocale=en_US

I am very happy to know that my footage is really 1280 x 720 and there isn't an issue with my import tactics. :)

I am still looking for a good way to get smooth slow motion from 60p footage using either FCE or an external program that I can then import the footage to FCE.

Thanks!
-storm-

Shawn Storm
12-21-2009, 10:29 AM
Hi People,

I ended up contacting the creator of JES Deinterlacer and found out how to use that program to achieve my desired results! Here are the instructions for anyone else that wants to be able to do this:

It is actually very simple. Select Standards Conversion, click 1270x720 60p, click Custom, change frame rate to "29.97". Set the speed to "0.5". Select output format (like Direct Photo-JPEG) and click OK.

This creates a file that is twice as long, half the speed, and retains all original frames. I also found the quality to be almost identical to the original (when outputting to AIC format at least).

-storm-

Sean Jeong
12-21-2009, 06:57 PM
If I have recorded footage in full HD mode and converted it to 24p using voltaic hd can I just create slowdown in Premiere by using the clip speed/duration tool or is there a right way of creating slow motion smoothly?

Shawn Storm
12-22-2009, 01:05 AM
Hi Sean,

You may want to start another thread for that question. I will give it a shot though. My understanding is that full HD mode is shooting at 24p in a 60i wrapper. I assume that means once you have it back to 24p (using Voltaic) that you have all the original frames.

So anyways - I believe the answer is "Yes" - you are probably doing it the right way if you want to be using the 1080p footage. Perhaps there are settings you can play with such as "frame blending" and such. If you want smoother slow motion you will need to use the 720/60p footage I think.

I am not an expert by any means so if my answer isn't enough then perhaps start another thread and maybe one of the more experienced folks will chime in. :)

-storm-

Sean Jeong
12-22-2009, 10:38 AM
Thanks Shawn. Your post was very helpful. Now I know to shoot in 720 for better slowmo effect.

Shawn Storm
12-22-2009, 11:57 AM
Sean,

Check out this thread for more information:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=180797

jtopp
12-24-2009, 06:12 PM
Thanks so much for the tip, looks sweet.

Jonathan12uiz
01-03-2010, 09:46 AM
you asked the question i was about to post about. I'm a low budget hobbyist and i cant afford fcp so i was condering how to slow mo smoothly, although my log and transfer isn't working with my GH1... PM me maybe you can help me with my problem.

j1clark@ucsd.edu
01-04-2010, 10:23 AM
I am still looking for a good way to get smooth slow motion from 60p footage using either FCE or an external program that I can then import the footage to FCE.

Thanks!
-storm-

Buy After Effects... I had After Effects years ago, and when I started thinking about 'live video', I bought Final Cut Express to do the splicing and dicing of live video, then export/import into AE for 'fancy stuff'... one of which is removal of pulldown, 24p and 24pA, as well as frame rate changes, as well as time remapping for rates that are not based on the original shooting speeds.

As it is now I've got the Production bundle that includes Premiere, so I'll be seeing how that works with the AVCHD from the GH1. (On my hardware, I've not gotten satisfactory AVCHD performance, and need to transcode to something that can be played during editing...).

One of the things I want to check is why get a reverse telecine 'tool' when Premiere and Affter Effects have the removal function... is there something more going on with these other tools... one item I've noticed is some of the tools 'interpolate' 4:2:2 from 4:2:0, which may not be done in CS4 P/AE.

Shawn Storm
01-05-2010, 08:55 AM
you asked the question i was about to post about. I'm a low budget hobbyist and i cant afford fcp so i was condering how to slow mo smoothly, although my log and transfer isn't working with my GH1... PM me maybe you can help me with my problem.

Not sure I can be of much help other than to outline exactly what I do:
(This is applicable to 720p/60 AVCHD footage on the GH1 using a Mac)

1> Go into FCE and go to "Log and Transfer"
2> Attach GH1 to computer using USB cable (I use a card reader)
3> The footage on the camera should then show up in the Log and Transfer window and you then choose the desired footage and "Add to Que".

If the footage isn't appearing in the L&T window then make sure your GH1 is mounting on your desktop when you plug it in. If you have a PC then I can't really help much, but others in this forum should be able to since I think FCP and FCE both have the same "Log and Transfer" function.

Jonathan12uiz
01-05-2010, 07:03 PM
Not sure I can be of much help other than to outline exactly what I do:
(This is applicable to 720p/60 AVCHD footage on the GH1 using a Mac)

1> Go into FCE and go to "Log and Transfer"
2> Attach GH1 to computer using USB cable (I use a card reader)
3> The footage on the camera should then show up in the Log and Transfer window and you then choose the desired footage and "Add to Que".

If the footage isn't appearing in the L&T window then make sure your GH1 is mounting on your desktop when you plug it in. If you have a PC then I can't really help much, but others in this forum should be able to since I think FCP and FCE both have the same "Log and Transfer" function.

my camera is detected, i've also tried copy and pasting the "private" folder onto the desktop and adding that folder to log and transfer. the problem is not finding the files, Its that it crashes when I add anything to que.

Shawn Storm
01-06-2010, 09:04 AM
my camera is detected, i've also tried copy and pasting the "private" folder onto the desktop and adding that folder to log and transfer. the problem is not finding the files, Its that it crashes when I add anything to que.

I'm afraid I can't be of help since I have never encountered that issue myself. If you purchased FCE recently I would recommend calling Apple tech support (I believe you get 90 days of free phone support).

If you want any suggestions from people in this forum you will need to provide a lot more information such as:
*What kind of computer you are using (and its specs such as RAM, speed, etc)
*What operating system you are running.
*What exact version of FCE you have (you should be using the newest version).
*What kind of media files you are trying to import (720p/60 AVCHD??)
*An exact description of the issue you are having (with error messages, etc)

This forum may not be the best place to seek an answer to your issue. If you can't call Apple Support (for whatever reason), then I would suggest searching the web for a Final Cut Express support forum. I would also suggest looking through the FCE support page here:
http://www.apple.com/support/finalcutexpress/

Good Luck!

j1clark@ucsd.edu
01-06-2010, 09:27 AM
my camera is detected, i've also tried copy and pasting the "private" folder onto the desktop and adding that folder to log and transfer. the problem is not finding the files, Its that it crashes when I add anything to que.

I just used FCE 4 (with whatever current patches are out...), and had no problem copying the 'PRIVATE' folder from the SD card to my desktop (and then to an external hard drive), then using the Log and Transfer, adding the new location, got the AVCHD files to be transcoded to AIC files.

On startup of FCE (or when creating a new project) I selected the AVCHD 1920x1080 60i project setup.

My first test shots are in 1920x1080 mode. So perhaps I'll try 720p mode today.

But for my setup, I was able to transcode then use the JES tool to do the inverse telecine operation.

I'll be posting results soon.

Doctakay
01-08-2010, 12:07 AM
Thanks for the thread and figuring out about the JES deinterlacer facts! This is great.

I do have one question: how are you going about choosing the inputs on the JES interlacer? Are you choosing the MTS files, or converting them in log & transfer first or...?

I'm pumped that FCE actually seems to work pretty well with my new camera (HMC150) footage despite all the hype knocking the software. The 60p footage looks nice after being dropped into the 30p timeline, and it's kind of funny that the 30p is sped up.
If only Apple got over the blocks on sharing FCE projects with FCP...

Thanks again Shawn!

Shawn Storm
01-08-2010, 11:05 AM
Thanks for the thread and figuring out about the JES deinterlacer facts! This is great.

I do have one question: how are you going about choosing the inputs on the JES interlacer? Are you choosing the MTS files, or converting them in log & transfer first or...?


I have been using the AIC file that is created through the Log and Transfer process. I don't think I have tried using the MTS files yet.

I have been really enjoying FCE and feel that it is a great program for the price, but I am already starting to feel limited by it. I am hoping to get FCP in the near future. In the meantime I am having a great time with FCE despite its limitations.

-shawn-

sean guerrero
01-08-2010, 02:36 PM
shawn, sometimes on youtube there are some tutorials for what your trying to do.
Ive seen some that mention if you bring your clip for slow,mo into motion and modify this gives you a nice effect so you dont have to reduce the timerate in f.c.p.
check it out on youtube f.c.p. tutorials youtube search.

Doctakay
01-09-2010, 08:37 PM
Awesome, thanks man. I'm not that worried about it, but I was wondering if the log & transfer maintains the 60 "frames". Either way, the JES slow motion looks promising.

On FCE: Yeah, it is great to just work with some footage on almost-the-same platform until I can fund FCP and one of those new iMacs to support it. For now, on my macbook, FCE is the bomb.

Shawn Storm
01-11-2010, 09:25 AM
Awesome, thanks man. I'm not that worried about it, but I was wondering if the log & transfer maintains the 60 "frames". Either way, the JES slow motion looks promising.
.

Yes - it does ingest the footage at 60 fps. If you open the AIC file that is created by log and transfer it is definitely retaining all the frames. It isn't until you drop that clip onto a sequence that it gets converted to 30 fps.

-shawn-