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View Full Version : Neat video is awesome for the GH1!



Kellar42
12-09-2009, 11:01 AM
Hey guys...

I had heard about Neat Video Noise Reduction plugin and done some reading about it, but except for one comment to the contrary, I got the impression it would do nothing for the fixed pattern noise we get on the GH1.

Nonetheless, I did a little extreme low-light testing the other night and decided to go ahead and pick up the Neat Video plugin.

I am amazed and thrilled by the results. It really knocks out the green and purple banding I was getting at extremely low exposures, as well as handily taking care of high-ISO noise.

Definitely worth the $100 bucks. I've only been using it for an hour, too, can't wait to keep experimenting.

I'm attaching two grabs, of a very dark moment, the before and after should be fairly obvious.

Also this video, which I just replaced with a few NEat Video filtered sequences. I didn't apply it everywhere, so there is still some noise around, and it doesn't kill all banding (it works best on the purple green lines, which were plaguing me), but we're are talking DARK here folks. Sorry no before and after: http://www.vimeo.com/8047536

tflak
12-09-2009, 12:40 PM
In these two stills it appears to have removed a significant amount of detail along with the unwanted artifacts. But certainly if the shots were unusable without the correction it might be a worthwhile tradeoff.

Have read good reviews on the Neat Video plug-in.

Ryan McCarvill
12-09-2009, 03:00 PM
In these two stills it appears to have removed a significant amount of detail along with the unwanted artifacts. But certainly if the shots were unusable without the correction it might be a worthwhile tradeoff.

Have read good reviews on the Neat Video plug-in.

It looked to me like it had softened the image quite allot, howevever if the detailing that I could see was false detailing then I guess that's acceptable.

Kellar42
12-09-2009, 03:26 PM
I guess maybe these weren't the best stills to post. Yes it softens the image. In this case to remove horrible banding, I pushed it even farther than normal and the somewhat detailed shirt became kind of smooth. However, without direct comparison, especially with night shots, I don't think it will cause a problem on most shots...anywhere in the video that had white shirts had lots of green and purple lines, they look a lot better now.

I'm happy with it, anyhow. :D.

Ian-T
12-09-2009, 03:30 PM
I've been using Neat Video for a bit and I know you should be able to tweak it without removing detail. In this case though it looks like you pushed it quite a bit.

ChipG
12-09-2009, 03:39 PM
Try making 3 passes on a low setting.

mkeep
12-09-2009, 04:20 PM
It looks like a median filter.

ChipG
12-09-2009, 04:22 PM
It looks like a median filter.

It is with a better algorythm.

Kellar42
12-09-2009, 10:15 PM
Thanks Ian and Chip, and yeah, it was definitely an extreme situation.

Park Edwards
12-09-2009, 11:19 PM
yeah, neat video is a great utility, used it for the d90, but for the gh1, i dont' even see it even necessary unless it was badly shot on accident and just had to have that particular shot. otherwise, good tool, wouldn't bother using it with the gh1.

ChipG
12-09-2009, 11:54 PM
I think it could work great for any footage BTW. Tools are good, know when to use them, Neat has saved my life for noise in the past.

Kellar42
12-10-2009, 09:04 AM
The point here was not so much normal noise but the nasty color banding (fixed pattern noise) that we are seeing mostly with the GH1 when underexposed, but also specifically on white shirts or walls. This really helps...

Park Edwards
12-10-2009, 10:18 AM
then don't shoot under exposed ;)

ChipG
12-10-2009, 11:23 AM
Yea Keller42, carry a light kit around with you at all times.

Park Edwards
12-10-2009, 11:08 PM
i get where you were going with that, but my comment was just being realistic. i wouldn't for a second depend on neat video to fix a shot for me. i get all the run'n'gunners here might. but for narrative or even documentary filmmaking, stick to properly exposed shots or else you'll be sorely disappointed when editing you see your footage.

John Caballero
12-10-2009, 11:33 PM
Yea Keller42, carry a light kit around with you at all times.

That sounds like good advice because that is the ways pros go about their shooting. No matter what you are shooting you need light. Nowadays with the LED portables lights there is no excuse not to be able to carry some with you at all times.

ChipG
12-10-2009, 11:49 PM
That sounds like good advice because that is the ways pros go about their shooting. No matter what you are shooting you need light. Nowadays with the LED portables lights there is no excuse not to be able to carry some with you at all times.


Great! all you PRO's have fun with your little travel cam and light kits for run n' gun stuff. Excellent!

John Caballero
12-11-2009, 01:10 AM
Great! all you PRO's have fun with your little travel cam and light kits for run n' gun stuff. Excellent!

Thank you.

Kellar42
12-11-2009, 08:14 AM
I'm starting to pick up a couple of the smaller LED lights and I agree that they are required for most things. And in the banding thread, I've said as much to several people complaining about banding.

The only trouble with the GH1 is that there are shots that would be acceptable where you want most of the frame dark but your subject has a white shirt on, and then the green and purple banding can get pretty intense. Neat video seems to help that. That's all.

I'm practicing, testing, disciplining myself for something more planned (and stable!) down in this neighborhood. I just thought I'd share something that helps a little, as often post processing things do more harm than good. Here is the night before last, over dinner and a stroll...you can see why I might not have had a light kit (or a tripod with me) http://www.vimeo.com/8113529

With all that, I'm not a huge fan of these internet test videos and wish to quickly graduate to something else...

sammysammy
12-11-2009, 09:43 AM
Kellar, i thank you for letting me know about this great software

IanB
12-11-2009, 10:24 AM
I for one think you are doing great work. It took a very long time to get this type of quality testing in the HV20 world (where I came from) so I applaud your effort and finding a tool that might work for this issue.

I have a situation where I will be shooting a nativity scene on Christmas Eve (in near darkness my son will be Baby Jesus, and it is a once in a lifetime shot as he will be to big next year to play a 'baby') so I can use all the tips/tools I can get to help the GH1 through the torture. If I end up with the banding, this might be the solution.

Again, thank you for contributing. The GH1 to me is a situational camera, it can go into a room and not disturb anyone, because they think you are taking pictures! That means you can't have a light kit strapped to your belt blinding everyone with 1200 lumens to boost up your footage.

Good work!
IB

Nitsuj
12-11-2009, 11:05 PM
Hmmm I don't get it. So you get rid of the banding by trading in for the out of focus, compressed, artificial look? I'd just scrap a shot instead of going through other measures like that. If you want that low light look then you gotta use lights. Trust the old saying... you need a lot of light to make it look like low light. Use lights and properly expose for darker situations. Just my 2 cents.

JThi
01-08-2010, 01:48 AM
Could current users of Neat Video give me some tips? I want to minimize my chances of losing detail or slowing down the process. I haven't used it yet but will be installing it soon.

Any settings or workflow advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

Jesse Brauning
10-04-2010, 07:59 PM
There is somethign incredibly frustrating about the DVXuser community: and it is so very present in this dead thread that I simply must comment.
Different people from different walks of life use video cameras for different purposes, and talk about their techniques here. And then they get berated by people using those same video cameras for a different purpose and using different techniques to suit their purpose.

Not ever shoot is a controlled narrative shoot. That's just silly. People filming things in their life with a camera around their neck and nothing else should be just as welcome here, and not subject to beating over the head with advice like "scrap the shot".

How can you scrap the shot when there's no other shot and that's the shot you have?

reggietelly
10-04-2010, 08:07 PM
I was so amazed at what Neat Video could do I immediately bought it. For certain shots it's a real life saver. I often get old footage that needs sprucing up and this is a great first step in cleaning crappy footage.

I have to agree the example looks rather aggressive but at such a low light I'd say this was a good example of the GH1's less than stella performance in such conditions. have you tried shooting with standard settings? It seems to definitely help with banding issues.

all the best

Richard

reggietelly
10-04-2010, 08:14 PM
The GH1 to me is a situational camera, it can go into a room and not disturb anyone, because they think you are taking pictures! That means you can't have a light kit strapped to your belt blinding everyone with 1200 lumens to boost up your footage.

Good work!
IB


This is such a good point. The whole thing about low light capturing at the moment is the use of available light. This is what's getting ultra pro DP's excited about the current technology. If you watched them on the Zacuto shootout, this came over as one of the things they were most amazed and shocked at. The fact you could light someones face to the point of over exposure with a bic lighter blew them all away. One guy said imagine shoting in real moon light. So I think low light photography i.e. available light photography is the way foreward. Yes you can tease an extra ounce of light into a shot to make it sizzle, but it's not about great huge lights anymore I think. Here's a new Nikon short commissioned for the D7000 that exemplifies this shooting with available light really well


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMbBKukJzBk&hd=1

all the best

shaveblog
10-05-2010, 03:45 AM
Well said.


There is somethign incredibly frustrating about the DVXuser community: and it is so very present in this dead thread that I simply must comment.
Different people from different walks of life use video cameras for different purposes, and talk about their techniques here. And then they get berated by people using those same video cameras for a different purpose and using different techniques to suit their purpose.

Not ever shoot is a controlled narrative shoot. That's just silly. People filming things in their life with a camera around their neck and nothing else should be just as welcome here, and not subject to beating over the head with advice like "scrap the shot".

How can you scrap the shot when there's no other shot and that's the shot you have?

TempTag
10-06-2010, 10:37 AM
Anyone have any experience regarding the quality of the Neat Video plugin versus Red Giant's new MB Denoiser product?

http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/magic-bullet-denoiser/

texasranger000
10-11-2010, 01:31 AM
Anyone have any experience regarding the quality of the Neat Video plugin versus Red Giant's new MB Denoiser product?

http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/products/all/magic-bullet-denoiser/

My understanding is Neat Video is better albeit slower. Here (http://dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?222967-Filter-for-noise-removal-from-Red-Giant) is a thread that sheds just a little light on the comparison. I just started using it and it seems great- and actually not that slow to render at all.

Svart
10-11-2010, 07:27 AM
The GH1 to me is a situational camera, it can go into a room and not disturb anyone, because they think you are taking pictures! That means you can't have a light kit strapped to your belt blinding everyone with 1200 lumens to boost up your footage.

Then you aren't using the right tool for the job. You can't claim to be professional and use a tool that has a known problem in a way that will show that problem. That's like having a car with no brakes and then expecting it to stop before an accident.


How can you scrap the shot when there's no other shot and that's the shot you have?

Then I say you haven't planned properly. All (serious) shoots need contingency plans. Everybody has extra batteries and extra SD cards but does anybody think about blowing shots and what they can do to mitigate that possibility? I do. Most people who do this for money do. Most folks run multiple cameras or do multiple takes in addition to making sure they have the right tools for the job at hand.


And then they get berated by people using those same video cameras for a different purpose and using different techniques to suit their purpose.

Well obviously their "technique" must be to get banding in all their shots because they are knowingly shooting underexposed. IF you know that your camera has a banding problem in low light, which we all do, and you refuse to use lights to get your shot exposed properly then you have no right complaining about banding.. Complaining about a problem you know you'll have is unprofessional. If you have to get an underexposed shot in some kind of situation where you are unwilling to use light, then you aren't using the right camera and need to use something else. There is NO free lunch, you have to use the tools that are right for the situation if you expect perfect results.

shaveblog
10-11-2010, 07:29 AM
Neat Video is like any other signal processing plugin -- a little goes a long way. The example in this thread looks overaggressive to me, as if the user felt that raising all the sliders to max would really get those scrubbing bubbles into every nook and cranny. Myself, I'm very happy with just the default settings in Neat Video for FCP -- all I need to do is select an area of a frame which is relatively uniform, let the algorithm train itself to the noise pattern, and then go have a cup of coffee while the NR chews through the footage. With my octocore Mac it doesn't take that long.

I can see how overzealous cranking of this plugin could lead to criticism of soft, smeary output, but left at the default settings Neat Video is capable of miraculous results. It's the only NR plugin I've tried that actually makes a net improvement.

TempTag
10-11-2010, 06:28 PM
Thanks for the link - interesting read - will check Neat video out


My understanding is Neat Video is better albeit slower. Here (http://dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?222967-Filter-for-noise-removal-from-Red-Giant) is a thread that sheds just a little light on the comparison. I just started using it and it seems great- and actually not that slow to render at all.