Could it finaly be true??

[l1v32r1d3BmX]

Theres a Nikon event on the 10th and firmware updates are expected, for what i have no clue but they are coming... lets keep our fingers crossed

http://nikonrumors.com/2009/12/05/firmware-updates-coming-in-december-according-to-nikon-europe.aspx

Pablo

[iHartVideo]

Meh... keep your expectations low, it's Nikon.

[Adam J McKay]

My level of hope...11

My expectation...1

[mhill310]

If my d5k got manual controls. I might just cry.

[damonb]

Meh... keep your expectations low, it's Nikon.

If you only know Nikon from having just arrived onboard the dslr video boat, I can understand what you mean. Otherwise, that's a pretty ignorant statement. Yeah?

[mhill310]

I get so excited each time there is a rumor like this. I guess others arent excitable any more.

[iHartVideo]

If you only know Nikon from having just arrived onboard the dslr video boat, I can understand what you mean. Otherwise, that's a pretty ignorant statement. Yeah?

I've known Nikon for much longer than that.
Other than the recent D3/700 they consistently fail to impress and really don't seem to consider what users want. 24MP for $8000, is one of the latest examples, not to mention the D3s with crippled video.

[Zim]

Crippled video?


I've known Nikon for much longer than that.
Other than the recent D3/700 they consistently fail to impress and really don't seem to consider what users want. 24MP for $8000, is one of the latest examples, not to mention the D3s with crippled video.

[Starshine Video]

I've known Nikon for much longer than that.
Other than the recent D3/700 they consistently fail to impress and really don't seem to consider what users want. 24MP for $8000, is one of the latest examples, not to mention the D3s with crippled video.

from the 1960s until the the DSLR Nikon made some of the best cameras on the market, the choice of working pros worldwide. They are designed to be comfortable in hand and easy to use while still giving as many usable options as possible. You seem to be ticked that your Digital Still Camera isn't a fully functioning video camera and somehow not embracing this tiny little sub segment of the market is consistently ignoring what the users want?

[iHartVideo]

from the 1960s until the the DSLR Nikon made some of the best cameras on the market, the choice of working pros worldwide. They are designed to be comfortable in hand and easy to use while still giving as many usable options as possible. You seem to be ticked that your Digital Still Camera isn't a fully functioning video camera and somehow not embracing this tiny little sub segment of the market is consistently ignoring what the users want?

Canon is certainly addressing this "tiny subsegment"... you honestly think they are doing it over a handful of users?

I am ticked that:
1. Canon has a 24mp still camera for < $3000, Nikon's is $8000
2. Sony has a 24mp still camera for < $2000, Nikon's is $8000
3. Canon has a 24mp still camera with awesome video for < $3000, Nikon has nothing like this.
4. Canon has a 18mp still camera with awesome video for < $2000, Nikon has nothing like this.
5. Canon has cameras with fully manual video operation, Nikon does not.
6. Panasonic has cameras with fully manual video operation , Nikon does not.

And thats just off the top of my head. I have many reasons to be disappointed in Nikon. Sorry I'm not a fanboy that clings to how great they were in the 60's.

[Vinyl Stax]

Canon is certainly addressing this "tiny subsegment"... you honestly think they are doing it over a handful of users?

I am ticked that:
1. Canon has a 24mp still camera for < $3000, Nikon's is $8000
2. Sony has a 24mp still camera for < $2000, Nikon's is $8000
3. Canon has a 24mp still camera with awesome video for < $3000, Nikon has nothing like this.
4. Canon has a 18mp still camera with awesome video for < $2000, Nikon has nothing like this.
5. Canon has cameras with fully manual video operation, Nikon does not.
6. Panasonic has cameras with fully manual video operation , Nikon does not.

And thats just off the top of my head. I have many reasons to be disappointed in Nikon. Sorry I'm not a fanboy that clings to how great they were in the 60's.

it gets harder and harder to disagree !

[Adam J McKay]

So why don't you buy a Canon? Get the tool for the job. I agree that Canon has been pumping out lots of incentive to make the switch, at least coming from a photography and video perspective, but to say Nikon is somehow sub par is ridiculous. I do also think that in 2010 Nikon is going to have to start playing the MP and video game a little better or they are going to lose a lot of new customers to Canon. That being said, I also think, Canon at least, is going to wait until Scarlet is released or close to before releasing they XL bodied large sensor video beast.

Time will tell.

And you never know. We may still get manual controls for Nikon...

[Jim Klatt]

Ummm, the D3s has complete manual control. You can even alter/control aperture and iso while recording. The D3s video looks better than all of the other DSLR's out there. It's just very expensive. :)

(It's also an insanely amazing stills camera that trumps all of Canon and Panasonic's).

[BradM]

Ummm, the D3s has complete manual control. You can even alter/control aperture and iso while recording. The D3s video looks better than all of the other DSLR's out there. It's just very expensive. :)

So far I haven't seen any footage that shows what you are talking about ... any links for the great footage you speak of ? or raw files etc.

I am in, if it is that good:cheesy:

[Zim]

that will be a big step. I hope the next models allow that too.


Ummm, the D3s has complete manual control. You can even alter/control aperture and iso while recording. The D3s video looks better than all of the other DSLR's out there. It's just very expensive. :)

(It's also an insanely amazing stills camera that trumps all of Canon and Panasonic's).

[Zim]

Brad after watching 100's of DSLR videos all of them have good and bad points. Even the 7D. But when the Nikon is shot right it just has a great "film look"
As far as the D3s goes it just came out. Give it some time


So far I haven't seen any footage that shows what you are talking about ... any links for the great footage you speak of ? or raw files etc.

I am in, if it is that good:cheesy:

[morgan_moore]

Canon is certainly addressing this "tiny subsegment"... you honestly think they are doing it over a handful of users?

I am ticked that:
1. Canon has a 24mp still camera for < $3000, Nikon's is $8000
2. Sony has a 24mp still camera for < $2000, Nikon's is $8000
3. Canon has a 24mp still camera with awesome video for < $3000, Nikon has nothing like this.
4. Canon has a 18mp still camera with awesome video for < $2000, Nikon has nothing like this.
5. Canon has cameras with fully manual video operation, Nikon does not.
6. Panasonic has cameras with fully manual video operation , Nikon does not.

And thats just off the top of my head. I have many reasons to be disappointed in Nikon. Sorry I'm not a fanboy that clings to how great they were in the 60's.

I dont want to be too much of a nikon fanboy but for shooting stills the D3, and I assume D3s and D3x, are fanstastic cameras

I have been using my D3 virtually every day since it was released a couple of years ago probably 100k frames

The ergonomics and build quality, the AF that is spot on every time, the intuitive controls, usale 1600, two card slots etc make it an awesome camera that delivers in front of clients every day

As a stills tool it is in a different league from anything but the top line canons that are $5k too

As for the video - Im yet to be convinced

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38151 shows some footy

OK the video is 720 but what is a canon actually resolving ? 600 for the 7d and 800 for the 5d ?

Nikon just dont overspecify like canon do

Im really looking forwrd to a decent side by side test

Again if you look a nikons digital history it is slow to develop, the D1 was a year behind canon and nikon D1x etc hung around the 4-6mp mark while canon were doing 12+ mp, but when nikon caught up they really caught up

S

[iHartVideo]

So why don't you buy a Canon? Get the tool for the job.

Perhaps you have infinite dollars, but I don't. It's not a simple economic decision to switch brands.

I have a lot of money invested in glass, unfortunately it's of the Nikon variety. That said, if Nikon doesn't up their game with the D400/D4/D800 (whichever comes first) then I will, indeed, eat some of that investment and switch to Canon. I truly prefer the Nikon ergonomics but at some point the benefit of raw features outweigh the benefit of ergonomics. The next iteration is where I'll be making my decision.

[iHartVideo]

Ummm, the D3s has complete manual control.

I didn't know that - I will have to look into this. I thought it was exactly the same as the D300s feature set (but on a full frame sensor).
If that is the case then I would have to think that they will continue to offer this feature in all future models since the software has already been written.

This is encouraging.

[killacam]

Ummm, the D3s has complete manual control. You can even alter/control aperture and iso while recording. The D3s video looks better than all of the other DSLR's out there. It's just very expensive. :)

(It's also an insanely amazing stills camera that trumps all of Canon and Panasonic's).

wow that's really cool. I'm really surprised the d3s has flown under the radar then- honestly I think I might have gotten it a little confused with the d300s (similar names and released pretty close together) but also its high price and only 720p (and no 60p) might have made it less appealing. still, with complete manual control and vastly improved rolling shutter it should be getting more mention. also not to mention its best feature- its low light ability. it supposedly has an ISO of up to ISO 102,400 (which makes it similar to the 1dMarkIV which caused all the hubbub with its low light performance). its 12 megapixels on a full frame sensor is actually an advantage for video, and should make it at least around twice as light sensitive as a 5d. the 1dmarkiv is actually slightly cropped (at 1.3x) which makes the d3s more appealing.

here are two clips from the same guy, the first shows how the rolling shutter has improved (although it might have already with the d300s):
7943765
and the second its low light performance:
7911829

personally I actually lprefer the nikons' color tones and dynamic range- I think the footage tends to look more organic compared to the canons' video which can look a little plasticky. if you're right about the manual control I'd say the d3s is pretty sweet.

[Adam J McKay]

That is actually fairly amazing... It's a shame I don't have 5500 of disposable cash lying around for the d3s

[hepabst]

I think any camera that has full manual controls for shooting stills should have manual controls on the movies. But I don't work for a camera company. I'm not a Nikon fanboy but over the years I've collected a number of Nikon lenses that I just could not buy again if I had to change to Canon. So I like my D90 for stills and it's movie side is also fun but frustrating.

I wonder if Nikon feels that manual controls is only a high price feature or a feature they didn't put in the earlier models (D90, D5000, D300s) because they had not worked that out for those models and will add in with a firmware update.

My artisitic budget is very low on the food chain in my house so my hope is Nikon does in fact do the firmware fixes. But in the mean time I'm going to keep coffee canning some money for the next best thing.

[jonE5]

I hear ya hepa im largely in the same boat. Ive had plenty of shots where you can tell that the shutter speed is not set to an optimal rate (close to 48fps), and as such it just doesnt look right. Especially shooting anything not in direct sunlight its really frusterating.

Im at the point that my last short suffered because of this (shot much of it at night), and if i had say a Canon 7D it would have turned out a little better.

Its hard to justify spending that much, and im wondering if its worth it to make another project with my D90, or upgrade.

Ughhh, its just so much :(

jon

[Zim]

The test look good. Did you have some type of support when you were moving around?

[djkarn105]

I'm not a Nikon fanboy but over the years I've collected a number of Nikon lenses that I just could not buy again if I had to change to Canon.


You can use your Nikon lenses on the canon.

[Starshine Video]

I didn't know that - I will have to look into this. I thought it was exactly the same as the D300s feature set (but on a full frame sensor).
If that is the case then I would have to think that they will continue to offer this feature in all future models since the software has already been written.

This is encouraging.

So because you are ignorant of a companies product lineup, I am a fanboy stuck in the 60's :cheesy:

[iHartVideo]

So because you are ignorant of a companies product lineup, I am a fanboy stuck in the 60's :cheesy:

LOL... "ignorant of a companies product lineup"

Did you even read that Reduser post?
Manual operation is NOT in the manual, has NOT been mentioned by Nikon and was only found by fluke. I am as up to speed on the Nikon product line as Nikon allowed me to be. I would bet that you didn't know it either, since you didn't mention it before.

Beyond that most of my complaints hold, with the exception that Nikon has undocumented features for manual video in a $5000+ body.

Still lame.

Hopefully they rectify this with the next iteration.

[William_Robinette]

You can use your Nikon lenses on the canon.

No AF is a big setback. Not a deal if you are shooting video, but for stills it hurts.

[Jim Klatt]

LOL... "ignorant of a companies product lineup"

Did you even read that Reduser post?
Manual operation is NOT in the manual, has NOT been mentioned by Nikon and was only found by fluke. I am as up to speed on the Nikon product line as Nikon allowed me to be.

Um, actually it is. This is from MaxaMillion on reduser:

"the manual even says the camera controls shutter and aperture".

[Zim]

Kind of a waste of a lens if you ask me.


No AF is a big setback. Not a deal if you are shooting video, but for stills it hurts.

[iHartVideo]

Even then.. my gripe is about functionality at a price point.
Nikon doesn't have it. I honestly hope they implement it in the next iteration but I don't hold out much hope for a firmware update. A firmware update makes the 90/300s much more competitive at their price point.

I truly hope Nikon makes me eat my words and they add it to a Dec 10 firmware update. I own a 300s, after all, I have no reason to be disappointed in such an update.

[Jim Klatt]

I've known Nikon for much longer than that.
Other than the recent D3/700 they consistently fail to impress and really don't seem to consider what users want.

The D90 is an exceptional stills camera for its price, and is the first digital camera that has exceeded my expectations. Not to mention they have awesome lenses.

The ergonomics of the 2 dials for aperture/iso control(or others if you want it), is the best in the business, if you ask me.

[Jim Klatt]

I truly hope Nikon makes me eat my words and they add it to a Dec 10 firmware update.

You questioned somebody else's research, stated your claims in capital letters, and were incorrect about both. You have already eaten your words.

[mhill310]

Nikon really pushed the video capability on the D5000, in commercials and on the website. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw firmware for that as well.

[iHartVideo]

Um, actually it is. This is from MaxaMillion on reduser:

"the manual even says the camera controls shutter and aperture".

Actually, you get to eat your words, not me.

"total control... I was so surprised... the manual even says the camera controls shutter and aperture... I was trying to come up with a work around... maybe exposure lock or something." means that the manual says that the camera automatically controls these variables, not the user.

Re-read the Reduser post.

[iHartVideo]

The ergonomics of the 2 dials for aperture/iso control(or others if you want it), is the best in the business, if you ask me.

Agreed. Thats exactly why I haven't jumped to Canon yet.

[Tracey Lee]

I will sell my 7D if they put a firmware out for full manual video control.

[Jim Klatt]

mmmmm, they taste good. :)

[damonb]

Graciously done, Jim. My words have been tasty from time to time also, with a cabernet sauvignon.

But someone needs to sit down with one of these cameras and gently offer to help. They must feel like harried parents when we go from the LV to the OK button.

[Lammy]

Nikon support just emailed me.


“For your information, there is no D90 firmware update announced or planned.
In either case, we have forwarded your enquiry to our Design and Quality department for further review and consideration when developing future products and updates. At this moment, however, we are not able to guarantee if and when such functionality would be implemented.
We apologise for any inconveniences this may have caused you.”




So likely, if there is a firmware update tomorrow it's for coolpix or d300s. maybe. I suggest everyone log in to their Nikon Support page, and email nikon for Manual control of ISO and Shutter in D-Movie mode for their d90 and d300s. Maybe enough requests may get through, maybe not.

[hepabst]

I have friend that is a professional videographer. He gives me a hard time about my "little" cameras (HC1, HV20 & 40, D90). He does like my shorts and other projects I've done but he doesn't like the quality of the images and lack of standard video features on the cameras (he uses a CineAlta all the time). So I fire back and tell him to give me the "Money". I like the D90 the best, it's just fun to use plus it's tapeless. A firmware update would be great but I keep trying to make things with it as is.

I don't believe my cameras will keep me from creating "video art" for the web. But I also want to go beyond the web and that's where I'm not sure about my equipment. My friend harps that "you can't waste time when you got people waiting around" with these non-standard cameras. Nevertheless I keep moving forward with what I have.

[damonb]

hepabst, you are correct in thinking that your video art will not be restricted by your equipment. As I'm sure you know, some of the greatest film makers used and loved 8mm and 16mm equipment at a time when this equipment was denigrated or regarded as a family memory device. One of the greatest films of all time consists of stills except for one brief moment, and I'm sure you know this film also.

The first great dslr film is yet to be made. But it will come from someone somewhere soon. Your friend is also correct - some people won't wait around. But who are these people? They're not the ones who saw that film composed of still images. They're not the ones who will recognise the great dslr film. So who is your audience? And is it really about image quality for your friend? A good 35mm film camera buries his CineAlta so deep no light would penetrate. Does your friend dismiss Anger, Jarman and others because the image quality isn't there?

You might die poor, but the equipment you now have will do the job if art is your aim. Besides, sound is at least three times more important as image.

If commerce is your aim, then that's a whole other set of considerations.

[illusivethanos]

I don't believe my cameras will keep me from creating "video art" for the web. But I also want to go beyond the web and that's where I'm not sure about my equipment. My friend harps that "you can't waste time when you got people waiting around" with these non-standard cameras. Nevertheless I keep moving forward with what I have.

As you should (keep moving forward).
Sometimes, besides technical gadgetry (and this coming from a gadget freak), the only thing you need is the one that makes you feel good, confident, creative, maybe for no other reason than shallow DOF or color response. The Nikon look does that for me. (D90, I am hoping to jump to D3s when I have the cash, since I need two).
My DOP was very sceptical at first, giving me a hard time as well. We have worked together with various equipment, from DV to HD, and almost all makes of hardware. After one day's shoot with the D90, he is a convert. Maybe he is as crazy as me, to pursue a project with thousands of Euros at stake not with a "Pro" imaging system, but a low-grade, DSLR one.
Then again, it's not what you have, but what you do with it. And if you feel good doing it as well.
Keep up the good work.

[Michael Carter]

I've been playing with my D90 for a couple weeks now. Much as I'd like manual ISO and shutter, using older manual lenses really isn't killing me. Heck, I can key the D90 footage far far better than DV, and rezzing it down to SD can be gorgeous. I have plenty of lights, and if you follow the "trick it into manual-ish" steps, all you need is plenty of light to kill the grain.

I'd MUCH prefer to see better compression from the thing, now that we have solutions to stairstepping and some decent manual tricks. And AF in liveview.

The D90 has made me rethink future purchases to the point that wireless follow focus is seeming like a really handy thing. Then again, that's a lot of cash, and I do believe we'll have the Scarlet this summer, which for under $5k looks simply amazing - and with the included redmote, focus looks pretty slick.

Best thing you can do for your D90? Get on eBay and get some non-cpu AI lenses. Nikon series E, older Vivitar primes, etc. The better aftermarket lenses from back-in-the-day have all the sharpness you need considering the compression, they give better f-stop control, and the focus tens to be far better damped than AF lenses.

[BradM]

Then again, that's a lot of cash, and I do believe we'll have the Scarlet this summer, which for under $5k looks simply amazing - and with the included redmote, focus looks pretty slick.


Hmmm correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the Scarlet's ruff schedule delayed to possibly the following summer at least ? Also isn't it going to be well above 5k?

not sure ... but that wait could be quite a bit longer then expected.

[Michael Carter]

Visit this thread (http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38274) on Red user and scroll down a bit.

Scarlet fixed-lens version predicted at $4750. Expected release may-june 2010.

Massive changes since the announcement a year ago. Fixed lens will include 8x Red zoom, remote, battery pack, heated EVF, etc. It's a 3K camera. Focus manually, AF, or by touch screen on the lcd.

Supposedly Red is hiring over a thousand people for manufacturing. The release was delayed some time due to (a) advances they made in RedCode compression, and (b) a total revamp of the design & feature set. They've seriously upped the ante since it was first described, a year or more ago. They're describing the lens as stellar.

As with all-things-Red, change is normal. They sound pretty serious though, and this week stated that manufacturing/machining is running, and they expect to have good stock quantities upon release.

Me, I have some bills to pay by summer...

[BradM]

that is great news !

[mhill310]

Looks like no firmware yet. It was only a lens.

[Adam J McKay]

Ya, I don't think Nikon will ever give D90 users fill manual controls....ever.

[jeracravo]

If Nikon does the firmware upgrade on any of the DSLRs giving full manual control... I'll get one (3Ds not included...)

[Michael Carter]

Overall it looks like Nikon's not interested in the firmware. Also, keep in mind that D90 video is really an afterthought - since they had an HDMI capable feed going to LiveView, someone said "why not be able to burn it to the card as well". And since its the Live View feed, it's optimized for what the LCD needs. My guess is that Canon's implementation happened to be easier to add controls to, and that for Nikon it's a major hurdle. Again, it's that the implementation wasn't really designed for pro video needs.

Scarlet, on the other hand, is a 3K video camera that supposedly has first-class still imaging designed in from the start. If their claims are true, you'd supposedly need just one camera for both uses. I haven't even glanced at their still specs though. If Scarlet finally happens - and it really looks like we'll be able to buy 'em by summertime - it's looks like a real game changer, possibly a moment-in-time that will be discussed by film scholars ten years from now. Maybe that sounds like red-hype, but read the specs for the damn thing and tell me if that sort of democratization of tech could lead to another "golden age" of cinema (and yes, an ass load of crappy zombie flicks with terrible acting, lighting and sound), the same way home recording led to the amazing array and quality of indie music right now (which you need web radio and Paste magazine to find, sadly). (Though Dallas just got an NPR affiliate "indie" radio station - hallelujah!)

[bwwd]

Manual shutter control is not really a pro video need, just numbers tapped on some keypad in their factory and put all together into menu.I will never believe that its soooo complicated to use current video shutter speeds available in nikon cams but give manual control to switch between them and lock them when you want to.

[Tracey Lee]

it's not complicated...Canon did it...now Nikon just needs to do it. Why are they not?

[Lammy]

Well the Nikon team aren't the smartest of bunch, and their reasoning is lazy and rubbish for the most part....



The frequency of the electrical grid in Europe is 50Hz. While this is not normally visible to the human eye, all mains-powered lights (particularly fluorescent ones) do flicker at this very frequency (50 cycles every second).

Now, when you overlap the 24fps speed of the D90 video with the 50Hz flicker of the lights, as 50 is not an exact multiple of 24, it causes interference that to a smaller or greater degree manifests itself as you can see in the sample clip that you have attached. It is a natural occurrence and one of the artifacts that can not be avoided without either compromising the camera's functionality and the video quality, or unreasonably increasing the price of the camera itself. We believe that the benefits of the 24fps video functionality greatly exceed the minor drawback that come with it.

For your information, adjusting the ISO and the shutter speed (actually exposure time) would not remove the flicker as it is not related to those parameters. Increasing the exposure time could slightly reduce it, essentially by the effect of motion blur - however this would have also affected every moving object in your videos. For your information, there is no D90 firmware update announced or planned.

I corrected them, obviously, but they see no problem with having auto control and they don't care or really know anything about exposure time and frequency of electrical grids, as well as being oblivious to what competitor video DSLRs and actual camcorders are capable of.

My suggestion is to just bombard them with questions and demand answers until R&D get enough complaints ;)

[Zim]

They are saying the D3s is,,,,,so hopefully more models will follow


it's not complicated...Canon did it...now Nikon just needs to do it. Why are they not?

[iHartVideo]

Nikon wants to force people to buy into the next iteration.
Do they ever release updates with new features other than bug fixes?

[Zim]

Seeing how they out sell Canon I'd say they are know what they are doing a good job. It looks like they put manual controls on the D3s and probably they next cameras will do the same.


Well the Nikon team aren't the smartest of bunch, and their reasoning

is lazy and rubbish for the most part....




I corrected them, obviously, but they see no problem with having auto control and they don't care or really know anything about exposure time and frequency of electrical grids, as well as being oblivious to what competitor video DSLRs and actual camcorders are capable of.

My suggestion is to just bombard them with questions and demand answers until R&D get enough complaints ;)

[BradM]

Seeing how they out sell Canon I'd say they are know what they are doing a good job.

Exactly!

The bottom line for Nikon and most companies currently is sales, and as far as that goes they are doing quite well. There are enough people out there that don't know what manual control is, care or even want video yet and this has not shown in the sales yet. It will eventually and the companies who have video divisions will understand what is a stake here will show major gains. Nikon is just barely ahead of Canon in the 2009 market sales of DSLR's so it won't take much to drop.

again the masses want auto focus, stabilization and 60 minute recording time way ahead of 1080p, a great codec and manual control. Nikon as a new comer to video is going to deliver what the masses want...

[Adam J McKay]

I agree, I actually would rather not have 1080p. Full manual control, a better codec and improved Jello is all that I want really. I don't really care for auto focus, if it's there great but it would never be a deal breaker for me.

[Zim]

I agree with you.


I agree, I actually would rather not have 1080p. Full manual control, a better codec and improved Jello is all that I want really. I don't really care for auto focus, if it's there great but it would never be a deal breaker for me.

[damonb]

If Scarlet finally happens - and it really looks like we'll be able to buy 'em by summertime - it's looks like a real game changer, possibly a moment-in-time that will be discussed by film scholars ten years from now. Maybe that sounds like red-hype, but read the specs for the damn thing and tell me if that sort of democratization of tech could lead to another "golden age"

It kinda does sound like Red hype. The moment in time you speak of has already happened. Whatever anyone thinks of the D90, it was the first large sensor interchangable lens camera that shot stills and video and at an insane price. All the Red or any manufacturer can do now can do is improve on the dslr/video hybrid. It's the D90 and probably the 5D that the scholars will identify as the beginning.

[Tracey Lee]

Film makers that use 35mm film cameras or similar (RED, Viper) that use Cine Prime lenses, do NOT have auto focus function. I would love to see the day when so called film makers stop whining about DSLRs having auto focus when in video mode. It's not as reliable as setting your marks like a real film maker...I always preferred full manual control (including focus) even when using camcorders...the auto focus function is not as deliberate as the human focus puller. :)

I know i shouldn't waste my breath ranting...peace and happiness all.

[Duke M.]

Tiny indies don't usually have enough crew for a focus puller. When you're the cameraman, DP, director, prop guy, costumer, grip, gaffer, etc. it sure is nice to have your camera have auto focus and take one whole job off your hands.

[Tracey Lee]

Tiny indies don't usually have enough crew for a focus puller. When you're the cameraman, DP, director, prop guy, costumer, grip, gaffer, etc. it sure is nice to have your camera have auto focus and take one whole job off your hands.

You're right, I find myself in that situation all the time. It's just funny to me because the times I have used manual focus myself, I get the focus better than when I use auto focus. But hey, the Scarlet will have the touch focus screen...once it exists.

[damonb]

Yeah duke, I hear what you're saying about crew, but it really depends on what you're trying to shoot. And what are you using your grip gaffer for on your no-person shoot? Most productions would prioritize focus over most of the occupations you list.

octopi, I agree that people whine about auto focus. Focus is itself and has always been another - creative - means of achieving creative aims. Strange anyone would want a machine to make such creative decisions for a film maker.

[Michael Carter]

It kinda does sound like Red hype. The moment in time you speak of has already happened. Whatever anyone thinks of the D90, it was the first large sensor interchangable lens camera that shot stills and video and at an insane price. All the Red or any manufacturer can do now can do is improve on the dslr/video hybrid. It's the D90 and probably the 5D that the scholars will identify as the beginning.

But in that case you could call the DVX "the beginning". Scarlet's importance has nothing to do with still capability & "hybrid" nature - if the specs are correct, we're looking at the first ultra-affordable true cinema camera, with multiple frame rates, 3K resolution, and DSLR/Film look and quality vs. video, professional synched audio capture, and some innovations that will be envied by top of the line cameras. The D90 is the opposite - an amazing still camera with "afterthought" video, no useable audio, horrible compression and Jello shutter. (And as a still cam, it's in no way revolutionary or even that evolutionary). Yeah, you could shoot a feature on a D90, but the most compelling reason to do that would be so you could mention it in the press release. (Hey, I just shot a concert with the D90 and love the look - but it's a nightmare camera to control, and half of the handheld footage looks like a Jello mold that's been pushed around with a finger - I'm throwing away a LOT of shots because of that subtle wobble that's invisible on the LCD)

The Scarlet looks, to me, like the start of a new era - everything under $10k to date I'd think of as a "video" camera or an SLR with video - Scarlet specs out like a cinema camera. People use the word "hype" when discussing Red, but... they came up with an AMAZING camera system, without huge-corporate intervention, WITH the input of their on-line and user community... in a couple of years. And even the Red One is, by any standard you want to judge its capability, shockingly affordable. (Esp. when you compare to renting a Panavision for a shoot).

I'm not a Red owner (yet) but many people forget that they've done a tremendous amount of the things they set out to do, in a very short time. And what they've done is pretty unheard of for a US, or even global, manufacturing business.

[Jim Klatt]

Can we have a moratorium on using the word scarlet until it is actually a product for sale? Please? All of this Scarlet fever is making me nauseous.

It seems like the 21st century model for marketing is to fully turn consumers into advertisers without them even knowing about it. It's like facebook and how they have actually found a way to have friends be advertisers to friends.

I cannot help but see an "advertisment" when I see people incessantly talking about a product for the last how many years and they have never touched it, used it, or even have a place to buy it.

I don't think people even realize that they are doing it, but for many of us, we become more and more repelled by the mention of even its name, because it seems more like an advertisement or hype, rather than a review or recommendation.

[Tracey Lee]

Scar...what? Okay I will agree to that! I have gotten almost physically ill loving, then hating, DSLRs for video...wanting more. I finally had to just mentally remove myself from it all and start shooting things and doing some projects I like and forget about technical garbage.


Can we have a moratorium on using the word scarlet until it is actually a product for sale? Please? All of this Scarlet fever is making me nauseous.

It seems like the 21st century model for marketing is to fully turn consumers into advertisers without them even knowing about it. It's like facebook and how they have actually found a way to have friends be advertisers to friends.

I cannot help but see an "advertisment" when I see people incessantly talking about a product for the last how many years and they have never touched it, used it, or even have a place to buy it.

I don't think people even realize that they are doing it, but for many of us, we become more and more repelled by the mention of even its name, because it seems more like an advertisement or hype, rather than a review or recommendation.

[Michael Carter]

Point taken, when I feel the urge I'll type "sc*rl*t", as if it's profanity.

Though I am excited about it, and my money is on a lot of happy shooters this summer - it did take the november announcement to make me feel that this is a probable outcome - R*d is certainly known for blowing past deadlines. but I'll take the chance of skipping some sort of P2 cam purchase for a season.

A lot of this is human nature - if Nikon announces an upcoming D950 (D100 was used years ago) or whatever, with full manual controls, great compression, and reduced Jello for under a grand, you'll see the same sort of fevered predictions while everyone waits. On the other hand, if they'd announced "DMovie" six months before the D90 came out, we'd have seen a lot of 35 adapters on eBay, followed by a lot of disappointment.

[damonb]

if Nikon announces an upcoming D950 (D100 was used years ago) or whatever, with full manual controls, great compression, and reduced Jello for under a grand, you'll see the same sort of fevered predictions while everyone waits.

Maybe you would, because this is a D90 forum, not a RED forum, and it would therefore be highly relevant news. Michael, you're better off making films with the D90 than waiting for another camera that may not materialize. Actually, you're better off making films with any camera.

[Michael Carter]

Agreed - I just spent a crazy night shooting a crazy music event with the D90, with a range of old manual lenses and even the big 80-200 2.8. Handheld (on a fig rig), focusing on the fly, jumping through all the hoops to get modern glass to work manually, etc. Other than the occasional horrendous jello, I'm very very psyched about the overall footage quality - even the low-light stuff is very, very pretty. And the lens flares with wide lenses - SWEET and really controllable.

It's the first time I've made footage I simply "loved" with a "video" camera, and it's VERY strange... now, when we have a foggy morning or there's a cool sunset, I'm imaging the D90 video version of it - kind of "seeing" things through the camera. Haven't had that feeling since I was shooting fast tungsten film (and pushing it for grain), or Velvia. It's nice to feel a little inspired, especially after shooting for for a living for years & years.

That's what veered this thread over to other manufacturers - musing about a camera that may possibly do all the things I imagine (for me, 120 fps and film-like highlight rolloff, and plenty of DOF would be nice). But I've worked with the D90 enough to be developing a feel for what works and what doesn't, and I'm very excited, visualizing upcoming projects with the D90 workflow and look in mind.

I also just completed a still product shoot with it, and I agree with the reviewers that claim its color rendition beats every other current Nikon. Doing extensive Photoshop tweaks, I was really thrilled with what I was seeing color-wise, and the overall sharpness and image rendering is a noticeable jump from the D80/D200 era.

And one final note - pressing that "info" button and getting the top LCD on the BACK PANEL - genius. I'm getting old enough that the top LCD is really hard to see in low light (or when shooting on a ladder). That was just a "hell yeah" moment for me - for you video-only guys, it's a quick way to tweak in your white balance.

People are all over the map on video quality, from "it sucks" to "it's amazing". I think it's pretty and useable, but as a still camera, it's worth every penny - very well done.

[Lammy]

Seeing how they out sell Canon I'd say they are know what they are doing a good job. It looks like they put manual controls on the D3s and probably they next cameras will do the same.

It doesn't give Nikon the excuse to be wrong about issues like the 50hz thing and manual shutter control. Nikon have always been reknowned for being abit quality and less featureful. They're like, a Mac and Canon are like PCs.

And I know about the D3s, I've got access to one and I was one of the first people here to confirm it had manual control. I guess the real reason why is that Nikon do not believe it's a priority for entry/prosumer DSLRs. If the d90 did get manual control, it would be the cheapest and lovable option. ah well.

[Lammy]

And again to show that Nikon are quite confused and aren't even sure themselves (outside the coverted secret agent headquarters of R&D japan heh)



Nikon D3s with manual video control (http://nikonrumors.com/2009/12/13/nikon-d3s-with-manual-video-control.aspx)

By [NR] admin (http://nikonrumors.com/author/admin/) | December 13, 2009

Update #2: Another reader reported that slashcam.com (http://www.slashcam.com/news/single/Nikon-officially-confirmed-D3s-with-manual-setting-8056.html) got an official confirmation from Nikon Professional Services on the D3s manual video control (Google translation):
Once the Live View mode is the host menu to “stand” and the camera to manual mode (M) has been made, it is possible before and during the video aperture, shutter speed and ISO value set manually, or to pretend. An automatic focusing is possible on the AF-ON button (even during the current recording). In addition, optimal exposure is available to the video on the camera monitor on the right edge of an exposure range available.
Update #1: A reader just submitted this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcEaFHMgM-o) where James Banfield (Nikon UK support an training manager) clearly says there is no manual control in video mode (5:59 mark). Anyone from Nikon care to clarify this for us? Thanks.
Multiple readers have asked me about the manual video control of the Nikon D3s (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SQKVD0?ie=UTF8&tag=nikorumo-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B002SQKVD0). The camera has a full manual video mode (ISO, shutter, aperture)… and this is not in the manual – on page 66 of the manual it says (http://www.nikonusa.com/pdf/manuals/noprint/D3S_ENnoprint.pdf) “The camera adjust shutter speed and ISO sensitivity automatically”, but if you put the camera in manual mode and hit the OK button you can manual adjust at will. I am not sure why Nikon did not advertise this clearly from the very beginning and why they did not make it clear in the manual.


Guys, bombard your Nikon Support with how it's a great idea for M mode on the camera to actually be an M mode for video too. Otherwise, lol, it'd be a funny day if there was a D3s firmware update that made video auto-iso-shutter-focus-everything...