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View Full Version : ProRes LT vs DVCPro 30p on MacBook Pro



senomar
12-04-2009, 10:35 AM
Hey guys... I searched and searched, but couldn't find an exact answer about these 2 codecs compared against each other. Right now, I'm using the GH1 for a YouTube series, and my current workflow is as follows:
Log and Transfer -> lay out all the clips on a DVCPro 30p timeline, and export that whole thing into its own clip -> edit -> export full rez movies -> export "appleTV" in quicktime pro ->upload to YT...

The full size ProRes files that come from the log and transfer are too large for my little laptop, and it gets bogged down as soon as i have more than 1 video track... The DVCPro 30p runs smooth as silk...

Obviously, this is an extra step i wouldn't have to take if i upgrade to FCP 7, and log with ProRes LT... But I've been real happy with the image results the way i'm doing it... it just takes soooo long because I'm logging 5 hours of footage at a time.... So I'm wondering if the PRLT would produce as good or better results? Also, do you think ProRes LT will edit as smoothly with my setup: MacBook Pro 2.33 Intel with 4gig of ram FCP 6....

Thanks
Cody

Ben_B
12-04-2009, 11:07 AM
Why 30p? What setting are you shooting on?

senomar
12-04-2009, 04:13 PM
30p cuz it takes up less space, and cuz that's what youtube runs at... seems like a good match to me. not doing any cinema- just simple instructional videos...

shooting 720/60 sh mode...

Ben_B
12-04-2009, 04:17 PM
Even if you're editing the clips in a DVCPro HD timeline the files are still pro res and still take up the same amount of space...anyway if it's working for you keep doing it. I think for windows there is support to transcode directly into DVCPro HD and hopefully that comes to the mac for things like this....you could also try using ProRes Proxy or Apple Intermediate Codec if full quality is not your highest concern...they do a decent job. AIC is probably enough for you and takes up a fraction of the HDD space of ProRes. LT seems to take up something like 30% less than standard PR.

senomar
12-04-2009, 11:10 PM
thanks for trying to help...
I'm definitely not editing the full ProRes...I lay the ProRes out on a DVCPro timeline, and export that [I]after[I] i capture... it's a 2 step process before i'm even cutting the video... so i end up editing 1 long DVCPro 30p clip.

Basically, all i need to know is if my machine will handle a 2-3 layers of video if i use ProRes LT...
Because, from what I understand, it seems like the quality should be as good or better than the DVCPro route i'm going now...

onion
12-05-2009, 02:19 AM
It's not that great an idea to edit footage on your main drive (ie the same one your OS and/ or applications are on). Can you use an external drive as a scratch disk? Or do you wish to stick with the simplest setup possible? If you use an external, storage issues become moot, and you can use ProRes 60p etc.

It's probably worth experimenting with your pre-existing setup, and if it doesn't work out, getting a fast external hard drive (firewire 800). If you have an express card slot, you could get an eSATA drive or RAID instead - but this may be overkill for your needs! Even if you stick with DVCPro, using an external drive as a scratch disk will probably boost performance compared to your current setup

senomar
12-05-2009, 09:06 AM
I'm sorry- i must be doing a terrible job a communicating what information I need. I am working off (2) 500gig 0 raided external eSATA drives via pcmcia slot in my MBP....

The full ProRes media that FCP creates is still too big for this drive or FW800 when it comes to dropping frames... i can only play for a few seconds, before it gives me the classic dropped frame window....

anyway- i appreciate everyone's help, i guess i'll have to pick up FCP7 and see what happens...

onion
12-06-2009, 02:33 AM
No worries
I have FCP 7, having upgraded from FCP 6, using an external FW800 drive with a mac mini core 2 duo 2Ghz 4GB RAM with 7200rpm main drive. I imported as Apple prores 422

So I suspect my setup is less powered than yours. But I haven't had dropped frame issues. With either FCP 6 or 7. I think there might be a problem with your setup somewhere

Ben_B
12-06-2009, 02:20 PM
thanks for trying to help...
I'm definitely not editing the full ProRes...I lay the ProRes out on a DVCPro timeline, and export that [I]after[I] i capture... it's a 2 step process before i'm even cutting the video... so i end up editing 1 long DVCPro 30p clip.

Basically, all i need to know is if my machine will handle a 2-3 layers of video if i use ProRes LT...
Because, from what I understand, it seems like the quality should be as good or better than the DVCPro route i'm going now...

Woah woah woah! There is a muuuuuch easier way to do that!

Use Media Manager!

File->Media Manager

You can use it to completely rencode all of your clips to DVCPro HD (still as clips) into a new project and scratch folder....just set it up and watch it go!

Ben_B
12-08-2009, 11:22 AM
Woah woah woah! There is a muuuuuch easier way to do that!

Use Media Manager!

File->Media Manager

You can use it to completely rencode all of your clips to DVCPro HD (still as clips) into a new project and scratch folder....just set it up and watch it go!


Bump.

Did this help?

Ben_B
12-10-2009, 11:22 AM
I'm sorry- i must be doing a terrible job a communicating what information I need. I am working off (2) 500gig 0 raided external eSATA drives via pcmcia slot in my MBP....

The full ProRes media that FCP creates is still too big for this drive or FW800 when it comes to dropping frames... i can only play for a few seconds, before it gives me the classic dropped frame window....

anyway- i appreciate everyone's help, i guess i'll have to pick up FCP7 and see what happens...

You're saying it's too big to be pushed through those pipes w/o dropping frames? The limiting factor here is not FW800 and for sure not eSATA. I edit Pro Res from the GH1 all the time on my old Macbook and white iMac with no problems through firewire 400!

dvbrother
12-11-2009, 09:24 AM
"I edit Pro Res from the GH1 all the time on my old Macbook and white iMac with no problems through firewire 400! "

Ben,

I thought the same thing as I edit Pro Res GH1 footage without problems all the time on my iMac with an external Firewire 400 drive. But it occurred to me I'm always editing at 23.98 fps. When I try to play Pro Res footage at 60fps, it chokes and drops frames. Maybe 60fps is too much for his external drive to handle. Although an eSata Raid shouldn't have that problem.
Anyway, the Media Manager solution should save time.

dvbrother
12-11-2009, 09:27 AM
Another thought occurred to me. Instead of transcoding to DVC PRO HD 30, can you try dropping the original footage into a Pro Res timeline that is set to 29.97fps instead of 59.94 fps? That will cut the bandwidth in half and not require a transcoding step.

dvbrother
12-11-2009, 09:30 AM
Doh! Upon reading again I see that you also have a space issue on your drives, in which case my above solution is worthless.
Media Manager it is!

Ben_B
12-11-2009, 10:05 AM
"I edit Pro Res from the GH1 all the time on my old Macbook and white iMac with no problems through firewire 400! "

Ben,

I thought the same thing as I edit Pro Res GH1 footage without problems all the time on my iMac with an external Firewire 400 drive. But it occurred to me I'm always editing at 23.98 fps. When I try to play Pro Res footage at 60fps, it chokes and drops frames. Maybe 60fps is too much for his external drive to handle. Although an eSata Raid shouldn't have that problem.
Anyway, the Media Manager solution should save time.

Nope, 60p too.... Shouldn't matter though the data rates are the same and I think the file sizes on the 720/60p pro res might be a little smaller but I am not sure. But going backto the op problem-converting footage to dvcpro in the manner described is really not the best way to do it. Media manager all the way.

senomar
12-11-2009, 03:50 PM
hey guys! haven't checked this in a couple days... thanks for all the suggestions. As I type this, I'm transferring w/ fcp7 to 422 lt, so we'll see how it goes.

I can't imagine there's a problem with the computer. There are no other signs of problems, and it's been a rock (knock on wood) for almost 3 years now.

I like the idea of trying the ProRes in a 30p ProRes timeline, therefore not having to transcode.

Using media manager is fine, but it doesn't take me more than a few seconds to lay out on the timeline, so I'm not sure that would save me any time....

But hopefully all my problems will melt away with 422 lt....

Ben_B
12-11-2009, 06:45 PM
hey guys! haven't checked this in a couple days... thanks for all the suggestions. As I type this, I'm transferring w/ fcp7 to 422 lt, so we'll see how it goes.

I can't imagine there's a problem with the computer. There are no other signs of problems, and it's been a rock (knock on wood) for almost 3 years now.

I like the idea of trying the ProRes in a 30p ProRes timeline, therefore not having to transcode.

Using media manager is fine, but it doesn't take me more than a few seconds to lay out on the timeline, so I'm not sure that would save me any time....

But hopefully all my problems will melt away with 422 lt....

Because once it's in the timeline and exported you have to recut it out of the timeline to get your clips back! With media manager or even batch export you could have all your clips transcoded and in a new folder.