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Psynema
11-23-2009, 12:48 AM
I read that slower than 1/30th must be in 720 P mode, but in 1080 mode

If i set movie expsoure to S (shutter mode) and press the dial down I can bring it down to 1/4th of a second.

Odd thing is, the video records just fine (it's not blurred or streaky like typical slow shutter speeds). Seems like it's giving you the EV of a 1/4 shutter but without the blur?

WTF is going on? Is it just upping the ISO and disguising it as a shutter speed setting when I press the dial down? It still says 1600 ISO at the bottom no matter what.

Martti Ekstrand
11-23-2009, 12:54 AM
As soon as you are not in creative movie mode but start video from any of the still modes it goes to automatic exposure. Hence always use creative movie mode if filming...

Psynema
11-23-2009, 12:56 AM
As soon as you are not in creative movie mode but start video from any of the still modes it goes to automatic exposure. Hence always use creative movie mode if filming...

?

I was in movie mode

Martti Ekstrand
11-23-2009, 01:03 AM
Oh sorry, misread. Never used anything but manual in movie mode. Don't want the camera to play around with exposure once I'm shooting. Seems like the camera give you false information in this circumstance. Don't have it here to test the thing you have run into but the info given about shutter speeds below 1/30 when the firmware came out was that it'll only work in 720 - in 1080 1/30 is the slowest it will go.

Psynema
11-23-2009, 01:16 AM
Oh sorry, misread. Never used anything but manual in movie mode. Don't want the camera to play around with exposure once I'm shooting. Seems like the camera give you false information in this circumstance. Don't have it here to test the thing you have run into but the info given about shutter speeds below 1/30 when the firmware came out was that it'll only work in 720 - in 1080 1/30 is the slowest it will go.

Odd, the only thing I can think of if it's just pushing the ISO and saying it's shutter speed compensation.

So to clarify if anyone wants to chime in
1. Set the camera to 1080 Full HD
2. Set Exposure mode to S (Shutter) IN THE MENU ONLY NOT THE DIAL. THe DIAL STAYS ON MOVIE MODE.
3. Push the dial in and on the bottom of the screen you'll see the shutter dip below 1/30th as you turn the dial and it will stop at 1/4th of a second. The image gets brighter as you turn.
4. Video is not blurred at 1/4th of a second, but has the EV Value.

As I said before, I'm assuming it's "Lying" and actually boosting the ISO but claiming it's shutter speed (I have firmware 1.2 btw).

BUT it only goes up to 3200.

On 1600 ISO going from 1/30th of a second to 1/4th of a second would take me well beyond 3200 ISO and the camera keeps getting brighter as I go. the ISO number remains the same.

Odd little camera, but I'm stoked knowing it now has way more low light capability than I originally thought.

At least I can shoot in near darkness now and get an image (an ugly one with plaid sensor stripes, but I'll take it for $800). Hell it actually looks nice brightened in post and in B&W, so I can make a Pi inspired short sans lighting gear LOL.

Barry_Green
11-23-2009, 01:17 AM
Read Martti's post again -- he said to only use "Creative Movie Mode". You can record movies in any mode, including shutter priority -- but it's not really doing what you want, you don't have total manual control, unless you're using specifically the "creative movie mode" (which is the setting on the dial with the movie camera and the "M")

Psynema
11-23-2009, 01:23 AM
Read Martti's post again -- he said to only use "Creative Movie Mode". You can record movies in any mode, including shutter priority -- but it's not really doing what you want, you don't have total manual control, unless you're using specifically the "creative movie mode" (which is the setting on the dial with the movie camera and the "M")

I AM USING THAT MODE!!!

BY SHUTTER PRIORITY I DO NOT MEAN THE DIAL...I mean in the menu's movie recording mode.

The dial is set to MOVIE MODE with the camera and the M

My aperutre is fixed at 1.4 (manual lens) and my ISO maxed out at 1600 and displayed 1600 ISO the whole time.

Martti Ekstrand
11-23-2009, 01:25 AM
Nice find indeed! Instead of going 'WTF my camera is lying to me. Damn Panasonic, damn their eyes!" as some would do, you realise it can be utilized as a hack to pump the ISO in video mode. Have to test this - as I said, I haven't explored any other mode but full manual. Do you do this with the kit lens or a adapted one?

Psynema
11-23-2009, 01:28 AM
Nice find indeed! Instead of going 'WTF my camera is lying to me. Damn Panasonic, damn their eyes!" as some would do, you realise it can be utilized as a hack to pump the ISO in video mode. Have to test this - as I said, I haven't explored any other mode but full manual. Do you do this with the kit lens or a adapted one?

Adapted Pentax 1.4 Asahi so the aperture was in no way moving. And again 1600 is the ISO displayed the whole time. Going from 1/30th to 1/4th of a second takes you beyond 3200 ISO, so I'm baffled what's going on. I'm glad I found this out, but still odd. Obviously it's not really a 1/4 sec shutter since it's not blurring and obviously it's not the aperture, and obviously the ISO doesn't go up to 6000...so yeah :Drogar-Shock(DBG):

12000 ISO equivalent then I guess. I might make a video to clarify things

noirist
11-23-2009, 03:15 AM
I've tried that with the GH1 kit lens but can't get below 1/30 shutter in creative movie mode, FHD, exposure mode S, regardless of where the focus knob is set (AFS, AFC, or M). Pushing the dial in switches between shutter control and exposure adjustment. Are you sure you're in FHD instead of SH? Can you do what you're doing with the kit lens or does it only work with your Pentax lens?

Psynema
11-23-2009, 03:18 AM
I've tried that with the GH1 kit lens but can't get below 1/30 shutter in creative movie mode, FHD, exposure mode S, regardless of where the focus knob is set (AFS, AFC, or M). Pushing the dial in switches between shutter control and exposure adjustment. Are you sure you're in FHD instead of SH? Can you do what you're doing with the kit lens or does it only work with your Pentax lens?

I don't have the kit lens.

Yes I'm absolutely in FHD mode. Again, if I was in 720p mode it would be blurring due to a low shutter.

Pushing the dial in (like expsoure adjustment) is what's doing it but it's reading like it's slowing the shutter - you should see the shutter speed slow down as you turn the dial with it pressed down.

Try shooting with the lens off option maybe.

I have 1.2 firmware btw

BhambuNath
11-23-2009, 03:39 AM
I too can't get it below 1/30 with the kit lens and I've also tried shooting without lens.

I have firmware 1.2.

Psynema
11-23-2009, 04:00 AM
I too can't get it below 1/30 with the kit lens and I've also tried shooting without lens.

I have firmware 1.2.

AGAIN,

it doesn't go below 1/30 actually but will display slower speeds in the HUD down to 1/4. You get the EV value of a 1/4sec shutter, mimicking a 12000 iso.

I'm the only one who has this then?

nobbystylus
11-23-2009, 09:58 AM
I can repeat this yep.

You adjust the Exposure mode to 'S' while in Creative movie mode, and it seems that by clicking in the wheel you can dial down below 30, which seems to boost overall brightness without adjusting shutter speed. I'm using an adapted FD lens.

I've now dialed back the ISO to 200 but its still really bright in my dark and dingy hallway!!

nobbystylus
11-23-2009, 10:05 AM
i think this is a bug in the camera. If i flip between M and S within creative movie mode now the shutter speed says something very different, but the image is the same. Then by clicking into the dial its got stuck at 1/4000 of a second, unless i click again and it seems to jump down to 1/30 again.

Having said that i just looked in the manual (page 108) and it looks as though, when in CMM and having selected 'S', if you click the wheel in (and the numbers turn white) its now controlling exposure compensation rather than shutter speed... not quite sure what that means!

Psynema
11-23-2009, 03:14 PM
i think this is a bug in the camera. If i flip between M and S within creative movie mode now the shutter speed says something very different, but the image is the same. Then by clicking into the dial its got stuck at 1/4000 of a second, unless i click again and it seems to jump down to 1/30 again.

Having said that i just looked in the manual (page 108) and it looks as though, when in CMM and having selected 'S', if you click the wheel in (and the numbers turn white) its now controlling exposure compensation rather than shutter speed... not quite sure what that means!

Whatever it means I can not do this in full manual mode so it's odd why s exp. mode would give me two more stops (again my image brightens as I turn the dial to 1/4th of a second and is impressively sensitive to light.

Eventually I'll get around to posting a video of this to clarify things.

It pretty much is exposure comp. BUT reads it as the shutter slowing down, but this is not available in manual mode and 1/4th of a second at 1600 iso is beyond the camera's 3200 iso comp ability, so I'm confused...but happy.

ProjX v2.0
11-24-2009, 03:04 AM
I'm still on firmware 1.1 and this seems to be working for me. I see it boosting exposure comp. so maybe that is all it is doing?

Psynema
11-24-2009, 03:23 AM
I'm still on firmware 1.1 and this seems to be working for me. I see it boosting exposure comp. so maybe that is all it is doing?

It's def. not the shutter speed since there's no blur.

I'm just curious as to...

1. WTF it says the shutter speed is 1/4th
2. Why can't I do this in Manual Mode
3. How this even works - as again, the brightest setting on this "quirk" at 1600iso = 12000 on a 3200 iso camera. Odd.

ProjX v2.0
11-24-2009, 03:31 AM
I don't think it's really 1/4 shutter even though it says so.
If you drop it back down to 720P mode and manually set your shutter to 1/4, it's way brighter even with the blur.


Also notice you only get 3 actual bumps in exposure once you hit 6, 5 and 4 in 1080P mode. All the others seem to have no effect.

ProjX v2.0
11-24-2009, 04:05 AM
This seems to work in 720P mode too. You get 3 extra bumps in exposure.
All you need to do is set your EXPOSURE MODE to S, push your dial in and max it out.

BhambuNath
11-24-2009, 04:14 AM
Is it PAL or NTSC?

I'm trying it on PAL but can't get the shutter speed lower than 30 on LCD.

Here's what I'm doing:-

1. Set the camera to creative movie mode.

2. Set the camera to record 1080P.

3. From the menu, select the exposure mode to S.

Now I click the dial and select the shutter speed and when I rotate the dial I can't get the shutter speed to go below 30 on the display.

I'm using kit lens and the firmware version is 1.2

Thanks.

Psynema
11-24-2009, 04:18 AM
Is it PAL or NTSC?

I'm trying it on PAL but can't get the shutter speed lower than 30 on LCD.

Here's what I'm doing:-

1. Set the camera to creative movie mode.

2. Set the camera to record 1080P.

3. From the menu, select the exposure mode to S.

Now I click the dial and select the shutter speed and when I rotate the dial I can't get the shutter speed to go below 30 on the display.

I'm using kit lens and the firmware version is 1.2

Thanks.

Rotate the dial until it stops at 1/30, press the dial down, continue scrolling - NTSC btw

BhambuNath
11-24-2009, 04:33 AM
Yes, it's working as before I was trying to bring the shutter speed down, gotta rotate the dial while it's on exposure.

Thanks.

onion
11-24-2009, 05:19 AM
I'm missing a trick here. Can either of you explain what you mean in language a dummy like me can follow?

Specifically, Psynema, is the dial you refer to the one at the front on the right? 'press the dial down' means press it in. Does scrolling mean rotating? When I try this with the shutter speed highlighted, it doesn't go below 30. After pushing the dial in, the eV is highlighted (range -3 to +3). Rotating the dial doesn't change shutter speed but does change eV

BhambuNath - what do you mean 'rotate the dial while it's on exposure'? Does this mean the eV compensation? When I do this, the eV changes (and brightens the image) but the shutter speed display remains '30'

ProjX v2.0
11-24-2009, 05:27 AM
Yep, you're changing the eV but it's also showing that it's changing the shutter speed and giving you 3 extra increments of exposure.

BhambuNath
11-24-2009, 05:57 AM
BhambuNath - what do you mean 'rotate the dial while it's on exposure'? Does this mean the eV compensation? When I do this, the eV changes (and brightens the image) but the shutter speed display remains '30'

Yes, I mean rotate the dial.

Yes, when you select the shutter speed and rotate the dial, it won't go below 30. Now when you are at 30, press the rotate button down so that the exposure scale is selected( which was set to aperture when you were in M mode).

While the exposure is selected bring the exposure to max by rotating the button, you will see that it's more brighter than you can have to the Manual settings.

Martti Ekstrand
11-24-2009, 06:03 AM
I'm just curious as to...

1. WTF it says the shutter speed is 1/4th
2. Why can't I do this in Manual Mode
3. How this even works - as again, the brightest setting on this "quirk" at 1600iso = 12000 on a 3200 iso camera. Odd.

Perhaps Panasonic overlooked the possibility of people using manual lenses with passive adapters and didn't see that this could occur. All the better for us I guess.

onion
11-24-2009, 09:17 AM
Yes, I mean rotate the dial.

Yes, when you select the shutter speed and rotate the dial, it won't go below 30. Now when you are at 30, press the rotate button down so that the exposure scale is selected( which was set to aperture when you were in M mode).

While the exposure is selected bring the exposure to max by rotating the button, you will see that it's more brighter than you can have to the Manual settings.

Thanks

shzr
11-24-2009, 09:07 PM
very interesting find. Thanks

swyzlstyx
11-24-2009, 10:05 PM
I've played around with this. I don't think it's going above 3200iso...just like when using a m4/3 lens and adjusting the compensation with the wheel (gain).

Regardless of what you put the exposure comp wheel at, and regardless of what it shows as the shutter speed, the shutter speed is LOCKED at that speed before switching to the exp comp wheel, when using a manual lens. It just bumps up the gain at the far right of the setting, but doesn't do anything at any time to the actual shutter speed...regardless of what it says on the screen. I don't think it will actually go below 1/30...the 1/4 display is apparently just a camera nuance for lack of displaying something smarter.

I'd say it's 3200...but that's just making an assumption. Either way, anything over 1600 looks really bad anyways, and is so artificially bright in darkness that I don't need it. And that's considering I only shoot weddings. ;)

dvbrother
11-24-2009, 11:09 PM
Whatever it is, it's not 12,000 ISO. It's 3200 ISO. Notice that the only "shutter speeds" that make a difference when Exposure is set to 'S' mode are 6, 5 and 4. Three bumps in exposure. These correspond to the three grayed out ISO settings on the ISO display when in Creative Movie Mode. It goes in 1/3 stop increments: ISO 2000, 2500 and 3200.

I can also get it to do this when switching the Exposure mode in the menu to 'A', then dialing the wheel to 3 stops overexposed. Notice the last three turns of the dial give you the same three exposure bumps.

Psynema
11-25-2009, 05:06 AM
I've played around with this. I don't think it's going above 3200iso...just like when using a m4/3 lens and adjusting the compensation with the wheel (gain).

Regardless of what you put the exposure comp wheel at, and regardless of what it shows as the shutter speed, the shutter speed is LOCKED at that speed before switching to the exp comp wheel, when using a manual lens. It just bumps up the gain at the far right of the setting, but doesn't do anything at any time to the actual shutter speed...regardless of what it says on the screen. I don't think it will actually go below 1/30...the 1/4 display is apparently just a camera nuance for lack of displaying something smarter.

I'd say it's 3200...but that's just making an assumption. Either way, anything over 1600 looks really bad anyways, and is so artificially bright in darkness that I don't need it. And that's considering I only shoot weddings. ;)

Try it out - I found most of the time the footage is perfectly fine with minor grain. If this boost gets you a properly exposed image, you'll be fine so long as you burned the streaks out of your sensor.

Oetam
11-25-2009, 08:16 AM
To acces shutter speeds below 1/30th

Shoot in 720p (50p/60p)
Set the dial to CREATIVE MOVIE MODE, that means the camera icon with the M.
Press MENU/SET and in the menu select EXPOSURE MODE: M
If you are using the kit lens (and I guess any other autofocus lens) make sure the focus mode dial is set to MF.

larrys
11-25-2009, 08:20 AM
psynema, what do you mean by "burn the streaks out of your sensor"?

Psynema
11-25-2009, 08:57 AM
psynema, what do you mean by "burn the streaks out of your sensor"?

See the streaks thread nearby...

GH1's lowlight sensor streaks that eventually fade away with more use

martin0reg
11-25-2009, 11:59 AM
Yes, I mean rotate the dial.

Yes, when you select the shutter speed and rotate the dial, it won't go below 30. Now when you are at 30, press the rotate button down so that the exposure scale is selected( which was set to aperture when you were in M mode).

While the exposure is selected bring the exposure to max by rotating the button, you will see that it's more brighter than you can have to the Manual settings.

Thats what happens with my camera too.
No access to longer shutter speeds than 1/30
- but access to over exposure in 1-2-3 stops
This has effect on brightness, it looks like an extra gain up.

3 stops would be the same increase of brightness as 1/30 to 1/4.
(and the same as iso 1600 to 12800)
Thats my explanation of the weird 1/4 display- which I don't get with my cam.
Firmware 1.2 /pal.

greymog
11-25-2009, 12:09 PM
I have a PAL model, but am using the kit lens. When in creative movie mode and exposure mode in menu set to s as specified, I press the dial down and I can either being my shutter down to 30, not below, and then it switches to the lightmeter, and i can scrool to the right and brightness happens. footage also gets much cleaner when i hit record.

why can't i dip down to 1/4th? is it because i'm using the kit lens?

i wanna piece of this too ;)

Tarek

greymog
11-25-2009, 12:25 PM
its the same as what's happening to martin0reg's camera. the brightness is making a difference and the footage ain't so bad. I find that with these extra stops at 1600 its pretty noisy, yet i can go down to 800 for something acceptable noisewise out in the dark. 640 is clean. but brighter in s mode this way with exposure scale pushed up.

nobbystylus
11-25-2009, 04:16 PM
When using adapted lenses the shutter numbers turn white after one click and then seem to go down to 4, boosting the overall brightness of the image. But when using the kit lens one click just adjusts the overall exposure adjustment meter (in the middle bottom of the screen) up to + 3

MR Fanny
11-25-2009, 04:20 PM
ok so i tried this with my stock lens and S/S stays at 30, image still sucks, but.....if i throw on my fast zeiss f1.4 S/S now shows 1/4th as mentioned and bloody hell the image is quite usable.

this is from me shooting in my room with all my blinds closed with black feature wall so its pretty dark. Wherever there is a hint of light like say from the tv everything around it looks like day. Very cool to know that this can be done if you really need it.

Psynema
11-25-2009, 06:44 PM
For the kit lens users, what happens when you use the "shoot w/o lens" option?

Xaveryptak
11-25-2009, 07:08 PM
I using the kit lens. When in creative movie mode and exposure mode in menu set to s as specified, I press the dial down and I can either being my shutter down to 30, not below, and then it switches to the lightmeter, and i can scrool to the right and brightness happens. footage also gets much cleaner when i hit record.

Tarek


For the kit lens users, what happens when you use the "shoot w/o lens" option?Y
Doesn't seems to make any difference, my GH1 with kit lens behaves like Tarek's with or without this option turned on.

Osslund
11-26-2009, 12:49 AM
I know someone else mentioned that you have to have the focus dial set at "M" (manual) for slow shutter to work.

swyzlstyx
11-27-2009, 12:14 AM
For the kit lens users, what happens when you use the "shoot w/o lens" option?



I think a lot of posters here are not getting it...it's not a "trick"...it's just using the exposure dial to crank up the gain to iso3200...regardless of what lenses you mount. It just displays 1/4 to throw people for a loop when using manual lenses...but you ain't gettin' that camera below 1/30th.

It just looks better when using manual lenses because the kit lens is horribly slow, so anything not in bright light will be underexposed...causing noise/streaks.

I've shot several weddings with the GH1 now. It wasn't "burn-in" that got rid of the streaks...it was the 20mm f1.7 and Olympus Zuiko OM 50mm f1.8. :Drogar-Happy(DBG): Now I don't have to crank up the gain past iso1600 with the exposure comp wheel like this post suggests...the 20mm f1.7 exposes in auto-iso brighter than real life, actually. It's awesome. For narrow DOF detail shots I just put on the 50mm OM. But I can shoot an entire reception with just the 20mm...it blows away any video camera I've ever used in low light...except for the crappy codec.

AKED
11-27-2009, 02:41 AM
Hi,
I have read this thread with great interest, but like some others, it does not work with my GH1, PAL version, Firmware 1.2.

I have the Kit lens and I have the 20 mm 1.7 Pancake.
With both the same.
I can do it in SH, with the video camera mode set om manual and the manual focus on, and I can get down to 1/2 of a second with the motion blur. No problem with that.

When I go on FHD with the video camera mode on S I can turn the dial left to 30, than press it and the exposure goes up to +3. After that, nothing more.
If I press again, then I am again changing the shutter speed.
I have checked that with the manual setting of the video camera mode, and when I have an open apperture and the 30 as shutter speed, it shows the same brightness as before.

So the "enhanced" version is not brighter at all. Exactly the same.
What do I have to do to bring it to work?

Thanks for any advice.

AKED
11-30-2009, 12:00 AM
OK, I have tested a little and it works.
I thougth, something must happen AFTER you have turned the dial to +3.
But this IS the enhancement.
It is the equivalent to 3200 ISO.

You can enhance the picture, btw, if you set the film mode to "Dynamic".
Even less noise in the picture then.