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arroway
11-22-2009, 01:35 AM
Will there be a parallel scriptfest to this?

It would be nice to see more directors and writers working together, benefiting from each other's expertise.

It seems pretty obvious that the best way to do that would be by better integrating the script and film fests together. Perhaps even going so far as to make it a two-step, MANDATORY process whereby scripts MUST be entered in scriptfest in order to be used for filmfest?

IMO, I have yet to see a single, solitary filmfest entry that couldn't have benefited (at least a little bit) from some early story feedback. I apologize in advance if that sounds inflammatory or something but a sub par screenplay seems to be the average Achilles' heel for most of the entries.

Better integration between the scriptfests and filmfests would serve to greatly increase the quality of the final entries. More development time never hurt anybody. If everyone had to workshop their script (through scriptfest critiques) or choose a (already work-shopped) script from the scriptfest pool before filming began, there is no way the average level of quality wouldn't be raised substantially as a result.

As Seansshack said,
scriptfest could be more about pitching/developing than a contest.Or as jmoschner said,
Perhaps next time the script fest should come first then have the top 3-5 scripts as the ones the filmmakers have to pick from to use. Given the same source material it would be interesting to see just how different a take/voice they can give the words.Thoughts?

Rodney V. Smith
11-22-2009, 03:15 AM
No. It's extremely limiting and a bad idea. Great way to drive filmmakers away to make the process of creation MANDATORY.

Each filmmaker has a process of development. For some it's slapdash and a scramble for scripts, for others its a careful process that takes time and care where every aspect of the script is looked at carefully.

I understand that as a writer you'd love to see your work developed (this being the general you) but it's not by imposing artificial limitations on an already arduous and time consuming process.

Nitsuj
11-22-2009, 08:28 AM
I like the process of writing my screenplay and making it into a film. I probably wouldn't enter into the fest if I was forced to use a screenplay I wasn't into. Part of the appeal of festivals like this is having artistic control... studio vs independent if you will. The festival to me is a training ground to see what works and what doesn't. Anybody can already collaborate with writers if they want. Some filmmakers are not writers and do this already. I use this to get better at my writing and filmmaking and like Rodney said... I have a process which I am trying to improve.

So if somebody won that scriptfest idea they are guaranteed to be in the winning short since they would have to be listed on every short as the writer. I'm not really sure that is a good way of doing things. Part of being a screenwriter is trying to get your film made. So pitching to other filmmakers here can't possibly be against the rules. Nothing is stopping any writer here from personally going to some of the filmmakers and saying "I think you would be the man/woman for the job... would you make this?" Just my thoughts on it.

Nektonic
11-22-2009, 08:30 AM
I don't think integrating a scriptfest with the filmfest should be mandatory, but I thought they had a good idea of doing monsterfest for both the film and scriptfests last time, allowing the filmmakers to use a scriptfest script if they wanted to.

I guess we'll find out soon if there will be a scriptfest to go along with Betrayalfest.

Rodney V. Smith
11-22-2009, 08:37 AM
I'm very sure that there is a scriptfest coming right along for Betrayalfest. Anyone without a script will probably be looking at the entries and getting excited over some of the scripts coming out of there. Like Nitsuj and Nektonic pointed out, there's nothing stopping a director from approaching a writer about a script... or vice-versa.

dsto
11-22-2009, 08:39 AM
I agree with the others. I like the parallel fests. But I do not anything like that madatory. What if there is something there that just does not appeal to me, even if they are perfectly good scripts? Should be people just sit out of the film fests waiting for a script that calls out to them? Or should they use the one they are passionate about. Maybe a one time "Special" festival where the winners of the script fest are put on film....but it being outside of the maiin fest.

arroway
11-22-2009, 09:29 AM
Each filmmaker has a process of development. For some it's slapdash and a scramble for scripts, for others its a careful process that takes time and care where every aspect of the script is looked at carefully.I'm not sure I understand you here. If what you're saying is that for some people, the script writing process is a slapdash, haphazard thing, well, I wouldn't be surprised if that were true and I think that's a huge part of the problem.

More development time never hurt anybody.


I like the process of writing my screenplay and making it into a film. I probably wouldn't enter into the fest if I was forced to use a screenplay I wasn't into.

What if the only thing you were forced to do is enter your own screenplay in scriptfest to make it eligible for filmfest?


I don't think integrating a scriptfest with the filmfest should be mandatory, but I thought they had a good idea of doing monsterfest for both the film and scriptfests last time, allowing the filmmakers to use a scriptfest script if they wanted to.

It may have been a good idea in theory but there ended up being very little carry over from scriptfest to filmfest.


What if there is something there that just does not appeal to me, even if they are perfectly good scripts?

Then you could write your own script that does appeal to you and enter it in scriptfest yourself and then utilize all the helpful feedback you receive into making a much improved film?


Anyone without a script will probably be looking at the entries and getting excited over some of the scripts coming out of there.

In theory. Didn't happen last time. I think it's important to ask "why" and see if there's something that can be done to foster more collaboration while at the same time raising the quality of the final films.

Rodney V. Smith
11-22-2009, 09:32 AM
I'm sorry, but this post doesnt come across as helping anybody, only setting limits. You think as screenwriters we already don;t go to aother screenwriters and get detailed feedback across the board on what works and doesnt work, and then either take the criticism offer or reject it?

Seriously: an approach like this is definitely way in the wrong direction.

arroway
11-22-2009, 09:41 AM
Work shopping your script and getting feedback from dozens of people prior to filming would be a "limitation" to you?

I still don't think I understand where you're coming from.

Rodney V. Smith
11-22-2009, 09:46 AM
"MANDATORY" is the limitation. Something you were very much in favor of. That it would be mandatory to make one of these films.

Besides feedback from dozens of people doesnt make a better script. Everyone has an agenda and an interpretation of their own. Feedback from trusted sources helps to expand the script, but you CAN have too many cooks in the kitchen. This aproach serves no one except perhaps the novice screenwriter or filmmaker.

Take a look around: we're not all novices and to even suggest that we be limited to scriptfest for our ideas... completely abhorrent.

arroway
11-22-2009, 10:37 AM
That it would be mandatory to make one of these films.You could STILL produce your own script. You would just have to enter it in Scriptfest FIRST.


Besides feedback from dozens of people doesnt make a better script. Everyone has an agenda and an interpretation of their own. Feedback from trusted sources helps to expand the script, but you CAN have too many cooks in the kitchen.A would-be auteur would have to have a pretty inflated ego to think their scripts couldn't benefit from feedback. The "Too many cooks in the kitchen" thing is irrelevant. You can obviously take or leave any of the critiques you're given. Certainly you'll get some that make no sense, but you'll get just as many that are very helpful.


This aproach serves no one except perhaps the novice screenwriter or filmmaker.I could not disagree more. There isn't a single member here, so far removed from being a novice that they wouldn't benefit from hearing more feedback on their script.


Take a look aroundI have. That's why I started this thread. The script seems to be the archilles heel of many of the entries.

Nitsuj
11-22-2009, 10:38 AM
I think you are missing one of the problems that could be a HUGE problem with this idea. The screenplays I write are designed around the resources I personally have access too. That is the budget included. Now say you have a group of screenplays that win but have a considerable budget attached to them you have just cut out a large portion of your filmmakers right there. Another thing is the locations, props, and actors that could limit a lot of filmmakers. This is why I think it would not work. I get what you are saying but it just wouldn't work because of that alone. So to me the process is writing around what I have access too and that is an important tool to learn for me at this time. I wouldn't think it would be in the interest of the mods to cut out a large portion of their entries because of this.

Nitsuj
11-22-2009, 10:47 AM
You could STILL produce your own script. You would just have to enter it in Scriptfest FIRST.

Then you would be limiting viewers from the films by the screenplays appeal. Say you read a screenplay that you know is being made into a short but you didn't really care for the screenplay. You might just not even watch it based on that but the film could be much better. You don't see films releasing their screenplays first then the film. That might be murdering the film. Also some people keep their ideas and screenplays heavily guarded. I know I don't easily give out my screenplays just to anybody.
Finally... what would be the point then? Even if you had to enter your screenplay into the scriptfest it doesn't mean other people would get their screenplays made into films. It would just be an added step for the filmmakers but not really helping the screenwriters get their scripts shot.

Rodney V. Smith
11-22-2009, 10:51 AM
Thank you Nitsuj. Well said.

I'm a writer and a filmmaker and personally I do this so people don't get to TELL me what I have to create. If I wanted that I'd be still doing industrial/commercial shoots. Here in the fests we get to stretch the limits of our creativity and further our own agendas, whether it's honing our skills for the future, or just having fun.

I know exactly what MY agenda is...

arroway
11-22-2009, 10:56 AM
Then you would be limiting viewers from the films by the screenplays appeal. Say you read a screenplay that you know is being made into a short but you didn't really care for the screenplay. You might just not even watch it based on that but the film could be much better. You don't see films releasing their screenplays first then the film. That might be murdering the film.I disagree that this would be a problem. Don't you already have to vote on every film in the fest? As for it "murdering" anything, that is more than a little hyperbolic...


Also some people keep their ideas and screenplays heavily guarded. I know I don't easily give out my screenplays just to anybody.But you DO give out your films to just anybody? How is that any different?


Finally... what would be the point then? Even if you had to enter your screenplay into the scriptfest it doesn't mean other people would get their screenplays made into films. It would just be an added step for the filmmakers but not really helping the screenwriters get their scripts shot.For the people that didn't enter their own scripts in scriptfest, in order to participate in filmfest they would HAVE to use one of the "free agent" scripts from scriptfest which, I think, would greatly improve the likelihood of collaboration while at the same time allowing people like Rodney and yourself to still use your own stuff.

This would insure a lengthier period of development, more feedback from peers, and an increased level of quality in the finished films.

Eh?


I'm a writer and a filmmaker and personally I do this so people don't get to TELL me what I have to create. If I wanted that I'd be still doing industrial/commercial shoots. Here in the fests we get to stretch the limits of our creativity and further our own agendas, whether it's honing our skills for the future, or just having fun.

YOU. COULD. STILL. USE. YOUR. OWN. SCRIPT x infinity.

Zak Forsman
11-22-2009, 11:18 AM
If there is a related scriptfest, it will not be mandatory. certainly there is value in workshopping scripts and seeking creative, constructive feedback from trusted sources – but in many cases that is best handled behind the scenes. the writing process is a delicate one and unfiltered public scrutiny of your "blueprint" during the development phase has the potential to be as damaging as it could be rewarding.

so yes, please, i encourage any filmmaker to have their script read and critiqued in whatever manner they are comfortable with. but we're not going to force you to do it.

<- besides, some of us don't work from screenplays. some have other methods for constructing and discovering story and character. shocking, i know.

Cur
11-22-2009, 11:31 AM
Any script that I write is placed in a vault and then that vault is placed in a bigger vault and then that vault is guarded by ninja's.

If feedback is required the ninjas will use pterodactyls to deliver encrypted copies to my most trusted advisers.

Seriously; how can I pretend I am M. Night Shyamalan if everyone knows the ending?

Betrayal Fest: What a twist!

arroway
11-22-2009, 11:39 AM
certainly there is value in workshopping scripts and seeking creative, constructive feedback from trusted sources Ė but in many cases that is best handled behind the scenes.It seems like the ever-dwindling number of scriptfest entrants agree with you and are taking their efforts "behind the scenes".


he writing process is a delicate one and unfiltered public scrutiny of your "blueprint" during the development phase has the potential to be as damaging as it could be rewarding.If "unfiltered public feedback" is so potentially damaging, why not completely remove the feedback aspect from ALL the fests?

I don't understand this viewpoint at all.

Rodney V. Smith
11-22-2009, 11:42 AM
Dude, seriously: what is your agenda here?

arroway
11-22-2009, 11:48 AM
Dude, seriously, I don't think I've been obtuse. My "agenda" is more collaboration and higher quality filmfest entries.

Zak Forsman
11-22-2009, 11:54 AM
that sentiment is valued and appreciated. it just won't be mandatory. we tried requiring a variation of feedback on story development in the past (questfest) and it didn't improve the quality of the films made, it only lessened the number of participants.

Nitsuj
11-22-2009, 12:02 PM
Quality of a screenplay or film is relative.

Jason Ramsey
11-22-2009, 12:03 PM
Just to reiterate. Any partnership with scriptfest and dvxfest will be completely voluntary. Members are always encouraged to collaborate with each other on the fests. In fact, it's been one of the great successes of DVXFest.. The ever-growing collaboration between dvxuser members. Make a film in Texas and have someone from the Netherlands score it. See a script in ScriptFest, and work with the writer on bringing it to the screen. This is all great and encouraged.

But, it certainly is not and will not be required. Everyone has their own method, and we should all respect each other's process. There really is no right way to do this stuff. The right way is whatever gets it done so you can learn from the experience and do better next time.

Partnering between ScriptFest and DVXFest is great b/c it provides additional options and opportunities for folks. But, that's as far as it goes. Options and opportunities. Not mandatory.

Later,
Jason

Cur
11-22-2009, 12:11 PM
Dude, seriously: what is your agenda here?

I think his agenda is to breath additional life into scriptfest. A noble agenda; but he is unaware that his idea will hinder the "flexibility" that filmmakers love.

This will cause the filmmakers to become enraged:

We don't want to be put in boxes!

Donít you threaten my artistic freedom!

I will burn this whole place down!

Rodney V. Smith
11-22-2009, 12:15 PM
Noble cause and one I can support, but not at the expense of the rest of us. There are other ways to expand Scriptfest. So far I;ve never seen any banners or any other materials promoting the fest. Talk to the mods and see what suggestions you can get to expand the read of scriptfest. I;m sure you'd love to promise that the winning film will be produced... that would be one hell of a draw for writers of all stripes, but seriously, in terms of budget, logistics and actual planning, and of course the actual complexity of the winning script, something like that is hard to pull off.

Seek alternate means. Promotion isn;t supposed to shoot anybody in the foot, least of all yourself.

Jason Ramsey
11-22-2009, 12:17 PM
speaking of banners... why don't you make us one for betrayal fest.... banner man... aka Rodney :)

And, when the next scriptfest comes along, I assume you just offered to make a banner, right?

One of these days we'll get around to dvxfest getting its long overdue makeover and that should also help with the visibility of all of the fests.

Later,
Jason

Rodney V. Smith
11-22-2009, 12:19 PM
speaking of banners... why don't you make us one for betrayal fest.... banner man... aka Rodney :)

And, when the next scriptfest comes along, I assume you just offered to make a banner, right?

One of these days we'll get around to dvxfest getting its long overdue makeover and that should also help with the visibility of all of the fests.

Later,
Jason

Consider me volunteered. :grin: I'll get right on that and send them on to you.
And here I thought sunday was going to be a slow day. :beer:

Nitsuj
11-22-2009, 12:19 PM
If you wanted to drive incentive then making it mandatory wouldn't be the right way. An idea might be a bonus prize set aside just for screenplays that were in the scriptfest later made into a winning short film in dvxfest which would get the bonus prize shared between the filmmaker and screenwriter.

Sarah Daly
11-26-2009, 04:03 AM
I'm with you Arroway - not on the mandatory front but I think that showing your script to as many people as possible before it is produced can only be a good thing. This would help iron out so many of the problems that usually end up in the finished work. Seems pretty pointless to me having a script competition run parallel when those scripts never make it over to the business end.

I don't get why everyone is so reluctant to share their scripts? Maybe there could be more of a 'script bank' where people can post scripts that are either available for use, or scripts that producers want feedback on in the pre-production stage?

I think the mandatory element would piss people off, as some will want to keep their story as a surprise - and others - well - dismiss the importance of having a script - which, frankly, worries me, but hey - each to their own. Being a scriptwriter I will be biased in that direction.

But overall I would say that many of the last fests films would have benefited from some more fine tuning to the scripts and stories - and hey that's mine included. And there are a lot of talented folk on here with good advice if we're open to it. If you have the right attitude you can take the criticism that resonates and leave that which you're not feeling.

Basically Arroway, I get your points and I think they make sense...and I don't get the outpouring of negativity here.

Hmmm...it's a tricky one though...I don't think mandatory is an option - but maybe some more encouragement to share scripts and a forum for feedback? And also to run the scriptfest a little before the film fest - so that people who use scriptfest scripts aren't at a time disadvantage?

DarkElastic
11-26-2009, 05:39 AM
I think that what Rodders says about a process is the same for most filmmakers, and the problem with the filmfest vs the scriptfest is the timing. We have scriptfest being announced after the filmfest has been announced, so guys/gals are off getting their basic ideas together. If the Filmfest followed on after the scriptfest, there would be ready made scripts there to start the whole process and the scripts/stories would already have comments to make them better. Win win.
Right now, guys/gals are well on with their films in some capacity (mainly their concept) and it is only the stragglers that may pick up a scriptfest script.
So, put the scriptfest before the filmfest and that will give the scripts a better chance of being made.

Rodney V. Smith
11-26-2009, 05:51 AM
My point has always been about the mandatory nature of the suggestion. Any negativity is based on that. I think scriptfest is a great idea, but realistically the timing of it is completely sho. I like the fact that it has been announced so quickly on the heels of Betrayalfest and in future I'd like to see them announced on the same day. So having them work hand in hand is getting better.

Instead of harping on the "negative" points here, why don;t we all focus on the actual promotion of Scriptfest especially in the Betrayalfest thread?

Any ideas for PROMOTION please post here so we can get scriptfest the attention it needs. Let's use our resources well here as a community.

Rodney V. Smith
11-26-2009, 06:02 AM
BANNERS:

http://flyinmonkey.com/dvxfest/scriptfest-v2.jpg (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?f=199)

http://flyinmonkey.com/dvxfest/scriptfest-v1.jpg (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?f=199)

DarkElastic
11-26-2009, 06:06 AM
Instead of harping on the "negative" points here, why don;t we all focus on the actual promotion of Scriptfest especially in the Betrayalfest thread?


Just because people are conversing about this subject, does not mean that they are being 'negative' about it. We care about these fests and want to better them, to make them work and only through opening up these dialogues can we do this. Promotion has to also be a priority, but so does a system that truely benefits cooperation between the fests.

Rodney V. Smith
11-26-2009, 06:10 AM
Just because people are conversing about this subject, does not mean that they are being 'negative' about it. We care about these fests and want to better them, to make them work and only through opening up these dialogues can we do this. Promotion has to also be a priority, but so does a system that truely benefits cooperation between the fests.

I'd just prefer to see more action than talk. If you want to breathe life into scriptfest then get out there and DO something, make suggestions, but get the ball ROLLING. Scriptfest has a limited time run, so the more we can say about it RIGHT NOW and alert members who are considering Betrayalfest but don't have a script or an idea, then that will benefit everyone.

I suck at being a cheerleader.

DarkElastic
11-26-2009, 06:19 AM
I can just picture you in your cheerleader outfit... It's making me a little sick...

Rodney V. Smith
11-26-2009, 06:20 AM
I can just picture you in your cheerleader outfit... It's making me a little sick...

Excellent! Then my plan is already working...

Michael Anthony Horrigan
11-26-2009, 06:31 AM
You could STILL produce your own script. You would just have to enter it in Scriptfest FIRST.


Late to the party and just jumping into this and commenting as I go. I haven't read the entire thread yet.

Being 'forced' to share your script is not a good idea. When the movies comes out everyone will know exactly how it's going to play out. For a short film I don't think that's ideal. All the impact would be lost.

I know when I've read the book and the movie comes out that it rarely, if ever, lives up to my imagination.

Being MADE to do anything like this is not a great idea.
I would also hate to see the previous idea of all the filmmakers choosing from the top 5 scripts. It would be interesting at first but then it would grow quite tiresome watching the same thing over and over.

MAH

Rodney V. Smith
11-26-2009, 06:32 AM
I like your new banner Marshall. :grin:

Michael Anthony Horrigan
11-26-2009, 06:37 AM
Dude, seriously, I don't think I've been obtuse. My "agenda" is more collaboration and higher quality filmfest entries.
Not to pick on you but I would like to touch on this point.

It's not all about the script! I've seen some EXCELLENT scripts go down in flames due to poor execution on the filmmakers part. Execution and vision plays a very large part.

Don't assume that if the entry was poor it was because of a bad script. It's usually the other way around.

For what it's worth, I have a handful of writers that I show my work to before entering. Most of them get paid to write, professionals.
They critique my scripts, I make changes, and so on. I'm not a professional, I value their input.

MAH

ZazaCast
11-26-2009, 06:52 AM
Don't you already have to vote on every film in the fest?

No, you don't have to vote on every film in a fest, nor do you have to watch them all. I believe some people wait until the second round before voting.

Michael Anthony Horrigan
11-26-2009, 06:57 AM
No, you don't have to vote on every film in a fest, nor do you have to watch them all. I believe some people wait until the second round before voting.
To add to this... they are also supposed to be rated on how they stand on their own. Not in comparison to the other films in the Fest.

As per Jason Ramsey...

Couple of tidbits... The rating process is not intended to be a "ranking"... as you can tell, there are 1-10, not 1-45 stars. The ranking part takes care of itself. We strongly encourage you to rate each film individually, and you could have 30 films that are 6's... 4 that are 7's, 3 that are 8's, etc, etc, etc... Think of it as a simple review of the film. Rate it from 1-10 stars... Just like you might rate one youtube video, has little to no bearing on how you might rate the next one.

Although I'm sure some people find that part difficult. I even have to remind myself at times.
One rule I wouldn't mind seeing.... 'Your vote doesn't count unless you have rated ALL of the entries.'
That way everyone will receive a rating and get a fair shake.

MAH

DarkElastic
11-26-2009, 06:59 AM
I like your new banner Marshall. :grin:
I like it. Some guy who dresses like a cheerleader made it!!!
In my mind, all I see is Hayden Panettiere's body and your head...

ZazaCast
11-26-2009, 07:05 AM
One rule I wouldn't mind seeing.... 'Your vote doesn't count unless you have rated ALL of the entries.'
That way everyone will receive a rating and get a fair shake.

MAH

I second that one!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

...unless people just randomly go through and check stars just to have votes count?

Michael Anthony Horrigan
11-26-2009, 07:13 AM
I second that one!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

...unless people just randomly go through and check stars just to have votes count?Still, any rating for the filmmaker would be better than receiving none. The Mods eliminate the low ball ones anyway. They look for users who deliberately rank certain entries down purposely.

ZazaCast
11-26-2009, 07:14 AM
True... so, I STILL second it!

Rodney V. Smith
11-26-2009, 07:15 AM
Still, any rating for the filmmaker would be better than receiving none. The Mods eliminate the low ball ones anyway. They look for users who deliberately rank certain entries down purposely.

Yeah: there's a pattern to everything and Jason doesn't like it when people cheat or try to play the system. He takes that kind of thing VERY seriously.

I second Zaza's seconding of the suggestion!

Michael Anthony Horrigan
11-26-2009, 07:16 AM
Yeah: there's a pattern to everything and Jason doesn't like it when people cheat or try to play the system. He takes that kind of thing VERY seriously.
He caught you didn't he. :evil:

j/k

Rodney V. Smith
11-26-2009, 07:17 AM
He caught you didn't he. :evil:

j/k

Why do you think I had to wear the cheerleader dress? :violent5:

Jason Ramsey
11-26-2009, 08:07 AM
While we do take people trying to game the system very seriously, it's also very evident that people have very different tastes, so we generally like to avoid that sort of thing. We do flag some folks from time to time as someone to watch, but beyond that, we like to avoid (whenever possible) subjectively deciding whether someone's vote is legit, or not. If you flag someone as a person of interest, over time, it becomes more obvious.

We had one person who rated everything a 1 in the second round that they hadn't already previously rated. Obviously a red flag there, and without going into details it was obviously some low ball stuff after seeing suspicious first round votes. But, the system also works very well with the amount of ratings that come in. We checked the results with and without that persons results and another's, and there was absolutely zero impact on the placing of the films.

--

Anyways... to the idea that you must rate every film. We've thought about such a thing, and while it sounds like a great idea on the surface, it can actually discourage participation, rather than encourage it. If someone sees that they have to rate every film they just might not even bother b/c "I don't have time to do that".

If it were a problem that films were receiving far different amounts of ratings, we might consider more strongly some kind of direction towards that, but right now, that is just not the case. Everyone indeed does get a fair shake.

After the 1st round of voting the amount of ratings each film received are pretty even keel across the board. Plus, this is what we have the 2nd round for as well. It helps to equalize the amount of ratings even more, as well as brings in even more new raters b/c we're only asking them to rate 8 or 12 or whatever films. The largest discrepancy would be like + or - 5.. and it's usually more like plus or minus a couple.

What you end up having are the hardcore, dedicated folks who rate every single film, and also discuss a lot of them, and you have a LOT of people who rate 70-85% of the films, a few who rate a few, etc, etc... And, ou have a lot of people who rate films but don't comment in the threads at all. Remember, there are 2 to 3 to 4 thousand downloads per film each fest.

So, if the numbers weren't already so well balanced out in terms of how many ratings a film receives, then it might be something worth considering more than the passing thought it has been thus far. But, because they are, we are weary of introducing a requirement like this, that might have the opposite effect intended (actually discourage participation) and also just have people going and randomly selecting ratings on the films that they haven't seen.. Which, on that point, I disagree that any rating is better than no rating. It also makes it more difficult to identify patterns in the rating, etc, etc.

Later,
Jason

Rodney V. Smith
11-26-2009, 08:11 AM
Definitely food for thought there Jason. You guys already have a LOT on your plate do deal with in terms of managing the fests.

As to promotion for scriptfest and betryalfest... don;t you think it's time for some new banners? (hint hint)

Jason Ramsey
11-26-2009, 08:13 AM
. don;t you think it's time for some new banners? (hint hint)

Yes :)

arroway
11-27-2009, 04:04 PM
I don't get why everyone is so reluctant to share their scripts?

It's a common phobia for new writers. Specifically, new writers who believe themselves to be the next M. Night. Shyamalan and their ideas worthy of plagiarism even though neither is likely the case.

The strange thing is how even 1st time directors usually seem completely at ease spreading their short films to all corners of the web with whorish abandon. You would think they'd be more concerned about someone trying to replicate their directing style considering all the rampant story theft screenwriters are apparently enduring...


Maybe there could be more of a 'script bank' where people can post scripts that are either available for use, or scripts that producers want feedback on in the pre-production stage?

That would surely be better than the disorganized glut of "anybody need a script?" threads that always pop up and peter out with one or two replies at most.


But overall I would say that many of the last fests films would have benefited from some more fine tuning to the scripts and storiesIMO, I have yet to see one that couldn't have used (at the very least) a little fine tuning.


I think that what Rodders says about a process is the same for most filmmakers, and the problem with the filmfest vs the scriptfest is the timing. We have scriptfest being announced after the filmfest has been announced, so guys/gals are off getting their basic ideas together. If the Filmfest followed on after the scriptfest, there would be ready made scripts there to start the whole process and the scripts/stories would already have comments to make them better. Win win.
Right now, guys/gals are well on with their films in some capacity (mainly their concept) and it is only the stragglers that may pick up a scriptfest script.
So, put the scriptfest before the filmfest and that will give the scripts a better chance of being made.

Exactly.


Being 'forced' to share your script is not a good idea. When the movies comes out everyone will know exactly how it's going to play out.

So what?

What you're basically saying is that the element of surprise is more important than execution. I think that's backwards logic.

And again, if this is your contention, why even have scriptfest integrated with filmfest at all when obviously the former serves only to detract from the latter?

This is similar Zak's comment about "unfiltered public feedback" being potentially damaging.

I really don't understand where either of you are coming from.


For a short film I don't think that's ideal. All the impact would be lost.

I disagree.

Especially since most of the participating filmmakers probably want their films to go on and be seen by other people on other websites or festivals in which case the most impact to be lost would be by using a leaky, unstable or otherwise faulty "foundation" rather than "spoiling" the surprise factor for a tiny fraction of your films eventual viewership.


I know when I've read the book and the movie comes out that it rarely, if ever, lives up to my imagination.

Scripts aren't books, they're blueprints. They are not written in a way that your imagination should be filling in every detail and nuance. They are designed from the onset to "come to life" after many other batters have stepped up to the plate and taken their swing. This is fundamentally different than a novel.

And once more, if this is the case, why even have a scriptfest? Why would anyone (who isn't a fool) knowingly participate in something that should apparently be retitled "SPOILERfest"?


I've seen some EXCELLENT scripts go down in flames due to poor execution on the filmmakers part.I would be interested in you PM'ing me some of examples of this as I have yet to see any, professional, independent, amateur or otherwise.


Don't assume that if the entry was poor it was because of a bad script. It's usually the other way around.This is the exact opposite of the commonly held and oft-repeated sentiment and I would be interested to see any examples of it you might have.

Here are the number of entries for the last scriptfests:

Scriptfest 1: 52
Scriptfest 2: 39
Scriptfest 3: 25
Scriptfest 4: 32
Scriptfest 5: 18

It doesn't take a veteran statistician to see the trend in these numbers. I am curious how many entrants scriptfest 6 will have this time around now that it has the luxury of it's own banner.

Rodney V. Smith
11-27-2009, 04:08 PM
Idon't see you flying any banners Arroway. WHy don't YOU get out and spread the word? Share your ideas of how to promote the fest.

Jason Ramsey
11-27-2009, 04:10 PM
forcing participation is not the way to build a healthy fest.

Rodney V. Smith
11-27-2009, 04:11 PM
forcing participation is not the way to build a healthy fest.

He doesn't wat to hear anyone else.

arroway
11-27-2009, 04:24 PM
He doesn't wat to hear anyone else.


Touche on the banner comment but please don't assume to know "wat" I want to hear.

The only thing I'm interested in is suggestions to ward off scriptfest 9 having -7.5 entrants (as per the current statistics).

P.S. Your banner is too large for the forum to let me display.

Rodney V. Smith
11-27-2009, 04:26 PM
P.S. Your banner is too large for the forum to let me display.

You mean the little one there on my signature that's displayed everywhere I go? That little one?

Copy, paste, link.

Jason Ramsey
11-27-2009, 04:29 PM
Rodney. stack your banners, rather than letting them run side by side. that'll help

arroway. If you are interested in trying to build a productive, thriving scriptfest, that is an admirable thing to do and it is a common goal. So, please take the idea of "forced" participation off the table and go from there :) We want to encourage participation and collaboration, not force it. I'd rather have 15 people who really wanted to be involved than 25 who didn't want to do it in the first place. The latter will cause the fest to suffer far more in the long term. It's gotta fester, and brew out of the member core who are dedicated and committed to such an endeavor. Or, who just really enjoy being a part of it. It doesn't have to explode over night.

DVXFest once upon a time had a prize of a package of minidv tapes :)

Later,
jason

DarkElastic
11-27-2009, 04:41 PM
"Bring back the MiniDV tapes, I say!"

Rodney V. Smith
11-27-2009, 05:13 PM
So are we recruiting new writers for scriptfest or keeping it internal? I can put together some kind of promotion thing over the weekend, but need some ideas on promotion and who we're going after... I already have a photographer taking some promo photos this weekend so I can get some custom shots done with the models...

Any ideas, please let me know.

Jason Ramsey
11-27-2009, 05:15 PM
anyone is welcome to participate. just like any of the other fests