View Full Version : Getting rid of the documentary look
Anthonyb
10-29-2009, 10:11 PM
Okay a lot of footage has been released. I've seen what the camera can do first hand. It looks very video-e, even at 24P. A solution I used on the HVX200 was a Tiffen Soft FX 1/2 4x4 glass filter.
I'm wondering if anyone has any solutions in getting a look similar to the 5D, or at least something that doesn't look like a documentary. Clearly I cannot use a filter this time as the image on the 7D is already soft. It would be better if it was sharper and we could diffuse it down with filters, but I'm open to suggestions.
Basically want to get rid of the "video" look.
:Drogar-Angry(DBG):
Cassius
10-29-2009, 11:31 PM
That's what color grading in post is for. Figure out what you want to change- saturation, softness, whatnot- and apply the necessary filters in your editing program.
stephenvv
10-30-2009, 09:33 AM
Just got my 7D - don't trust what you see online. I was expected a letdown but I have not been this excited about a cam since getting the 6th DVX100 in the US years ago.
Do get a Canon 50mm 1.4 - Stu at Prolost calls it a "must-have" lens. I could not agree more. Just shot with it last night for the first time. I've never shot more cinematic footage ever and I was totally fumbling with unfamiliar camera trying to film one song with a band.
dvxusr
10-30-2009, 11:41 AM
are we talking about any 50 1.4 or a specific canon model?
Anthonyb
10-30-2009, 11:48 AM
He's talking about the specific canon model, the lens is amazing.
Kholi
10-30-2009, 11:50 AM
This topic confuses the hell out of me. You're attributing the "Documentary" look to lenses?
Anthonyb
10-30-2009, 12:16 PM
No, attributing it to the sensor... but looking for solutions to make it look as sharp as the 5D.
Kholi
10-30-2009, 12:18 PM
How do you attribute "documentary" look to anything but cinematography or "shooting style"?
Bourney Identity is documentary style. It has NOTHING to do with the lenses or because it's not Full frame.
Anthonyb
10-30-2009, 12:52 PM
How do you attribute "documentary" look to anything but cinematography or "shooting style"?
Bourney Identity is documentary style. It has NOTHING to do with the lenses or because it's not Full frame.
I'm just going to give up on you.
Kholi
10-30-2009, 12:56 PM
I'm just going to give up on you.
Well, I already understand that what you're referring to has nothing to do with the documentary style. You're just giving up on yourself by refusing to educate yourself.
Not my loss!
chris f
10-30-2009, 02:19 PM
Anthony, I think you should replace the word "documentary" with "video" and you'll be back on track.
There's several things you can do inside the camera to adjust custom scene files for contrast, sharpness, etc. I'm not a super tech guy, but the footage from my last 5D shoot looks pretty much like my last 7D shoot, I don't see there being a huge difference between the two when using the same lenses.
Anthonyb
10-30-2009, 02:42 PM
Anthony, I think you should replace the word "documentary" with "video" and you'll be back on track.
There's several things you can do inside the camera to adjust custom scene files for contrast, sharpness, etc. I'm not a super tech guy, but the footage from my last 5D shoot looks pretty much like my last 7D shoot, I don't see there being a huge difference between the two when using the same lenses.
Thanks Chris, would love to hear about those settings.
Kholi
10-30-2009, 03:07 PM
Anthony, I think you should replace the word "documentary" with "video" and you'll be back on track.
There's several things you can do inside the camera to adjust custom scene files for contrast, sharpness, etc. I'm not a super tech guy, but the footage from my last 5D shoot looks pretty much like my last 7D shoot, I don't see there being a huge difference between the two when using the same lenses.
Oh so THAT'S what he meant. He means how do you stop your footage from looking "video" which is really another term that we all use to say "Cheap" or "Not Cinematic."
Anthony, now that we're on the same page, can you post some footage to show what you're having trouble with?
Anthonyb
10-30-2009, 05:25 PM
Oh so THAT'S what he meant. He means how do you stop your footage from looking "video" which is really another term that we all use to say "Cheap" or "Not Cinematic."
Anthony, now that we're on the same page, can you post some footage to show what you're having trouble with?
Pretty much 95% of the footage in the 7D Footage Forum. Maybe I should just buy the 5D.
mhood
10-30-2009, 06:17 PM
Are you sure you don't have a problem with the "look" of Vimeo and Youtube? HTTP is a unique display medium and will "massage" content in unique ways.
Kholi
10-30-2009, 07:23 PM
Pretty much 95% of the footage in the 7D Footage Forum. Maybe I should just buy the 5D.
Hmm. Have you seen anything that doesn't have the look to compare to a 5D video that doesn't?
kenn michael
10-30-2009, 07:35 PM
I've shot with the 5D and I own a 7D. The 30fps on the 5D always felt video to me, no matter how pretty the image was. The 7D looks great (aside from the known aliasing and moire which is present in the 5D too). I've shot stuff that is just as cinematic as stuff I've shot on my RED. Personally, I'm not too used to full frame in motion pictures. It doesn't feel cinematic. It feels hyper-real. It's definitely artistic, but the S35 size sensor of the 7D is what I'm familiar with shooting RED, or 35mm film. The DOF is predictable based on my lens choice and aperture.
I use Neutral with Sharpness all the way down and Contrast all the way down. When the sharpness is not all the way down, the artificial edges are too sharp and ugly. You can always add some slight sharpening in post that looks nicer. The 5D wasn't any sharper to me than the 7D. 5D was slightly less noisy, but nothing major.
Anthonyb
10-30-2009, 08:38 PM
Are you sure you don't have a problem with the "look" of Vimeo and Youtube? HTTP is a unique display medium and will "massage" content in unique ways.
I wish that were the case, but check out Camille's page on vimeo:
http://www.vimeo.com/7118904
I realize there is color correcting done, but I have yet to see a single clip shot on the 7D that looks close to the quality of Camille's work.
If you have any examples of 7D Footage looking that good, please post. I would love to buy the 7D and save myself some cash, but the quality of the 5D in video mode is outstanding.
kenn michael
10-30-2009, 08:42 PM
There's a LOT of creative grading on that piece.
But you're sold on the 5D, so go get it and do some great work with it! :)
Anthonyb
10-30-2009, 08:53 PM
There's a LOT of creative grading on that piece.
But you're sold on the 5D, so go get it and do some great work with it! :)
Hahaha I guess you're right.... but I just wish I could see something this nice shot with the 7D. I love the capabilities of that camera, but ya... Would love to see some footage this beautiful shot with the 7D.
kenn michael
10-30-2009, 08:57 PM
It'll come. The 7D has only been out for a few weeks. Give it some more months, and you'll see some stuff that connects with your aesthetic. Happens like this with every camera. Happened with RED. Happened with the HVX. 5D was different because the first footage was Reverie which was a really produced piece. At least with the 5D, you'll eventually get 24fps so you won't have to do the frame conversion which takes forever.
Personal visual preference is sometimes very specific. You like the full frame look. Some people don't. Buy the tool that touches your visual sense of excellence. It's different for everybody.
The Ralph Lauren stuff was just played back slow to get to the 24fps, so no conversion was done. If it was synced sound, it might've not been as smooth.
mhood
10-30-2009, 09:01 PM
I don't offhand have links to 7D footage that has that much CC and is that shallow DOF but I do have a quote from a professional colorist who works with footage from every type of camera:
"I think its a somewhat flawed idea that the 7D is not a professional camera and that it well sucks....it doesn't. I think there are some firmware things going on the moment that are curiously tweaking the blacks and mids in the overall tonal range but once corrected the footage looks amazing."
Your concern seems to be one of "will a 7D have this Ralph Lauren look if shot with the same grade of glass and processed with the same professional techniques?" I think the colorist answers your question.
Duke M.
10-30-2009, 09:43 PM
One thing I noted in a lot of my 7D footage, and that posted by Barry, is that the 7D colors are muddier than the still photos. The still images look spectacular.
Changing the gamma in post along the general lines of .8 to .85 for each color channel matches them up pretty well.
The biggest thing is the 5D has been out for while. The 7D just came out and they aren't the same. Give it a little time for people to invent custom presets or grading formulas and it will look better. If I can match my four favorite A1 presets I'll be happy. :engel017:
That being said the 7D isn't a camera that can do everything. Plan to not use fast pans, or to follow fast movement. Don't assume autofocus will work for lots of movement. Don't shoot backgrounds with repeating backgrounds before checking for moire patterns. Use it for its strengths, not its weaknesses.
Anthonyb
10-30-2009, 10:45 PM
One thing I noted in a lot of my 7D footage, and that posted by Barry, is that the 7D colors are muddier than the still photos. The still images look spectacular.
Changing the gamma in post along the general lines of .8 to .85 for each color channel matches them up pretty well.
The biggest thing is the 5D has been out for while. The 7D just came out and they aren't the same. Give it a little time for people to invent custom presets or grading formulas and it will look better. If I can match my four favorite A1 presets I'll be happy. :engel017:
That being said the 7D isn't a camera that can do everything. Plan to not use fast pans, or to follow fast movement. Don't assume autofocus will work for lots of movement. Don't shoot backgrounds with repeating backgrounds before checking for moire patterns. Use it for its strengths, not its weaknesses.
Repeating backgrounds.... I'll be shooting in a forest. Uh-oh?
kenn michael
10-30-2009, 10:49 PM
Forest is different. Duke is talking about things like fine stripes in a striped shirt, or textured fabric that has a fine pattern. 5D has the exact same problem with this.
Anthonyb
10-31-2009, 12:17 AM
Forest is different. Duke is talking about things like fine stripes in a striped shirt, or textured fabric that has a fine pattern. 5D has the exact same problem with this.
Here is some eye candy I shot with a rebel and a 50mm f/1.4 Canon lens. I'll be shooting a commercial in November with the same clothing.
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=15738&id=305200529&l=d92466d3f1
I'm guessing that I'll be having moire/aliasing problems with the black tule material shown in the first outfit, if I use the 5D or the 7D. Thoughts?
Kholi
10-31-2009, 10:12 AM
Hey Anthony,
Kenn already touched on this and some others did as well, but what you're looking for isn't something that's done with a camera, honestly. Perhaps the super thin depth of the images is a preference you like, it doesn't translate to "Cinematic" to me. What looks cinematic about the person's footage that you've shown is composition, exposure, editing, sound.
That's what separates the look of material. The stuff you're seeing on Vimeo is just, well, stuff for the most part. It'll be a while, more than likely, before we see anything truly cinematic, as I haven't see much from the 5D as well. The example you love isn't one I would personally consider incredible because it's not my taste but even that one took a while to show up.
So, if you're concerned about a camera producing this effect, just know that it's not the camera. It's all about the production. I've seen RED footage that screamed amateur, because it was amateur.
Ask Kenn to see some of his RED footage. >=P It'll make you want to shoot nothing BUT REd.
I wish that were the case, but check out Camille's page on vimeo:
http://www.vimeo.com/7118904
I realize there is color correcting done, but I have yet to see a single clip shot on the 7D that looks close to the quality of Camille's work.
If you have any examples of 7D Footage looking that good, please post. I would love to buy the 7D and save myself some cash, but the quality of the 5D in video mode is outstanding.
Definitely is some beautiful footage, but man, aren't you guys tired of seeing these super gradings coming out of the camera? We aren't all going to be shooting the next matrix.
Kholi
10-31-2009, 10:32 AM
Definitely is some beautiful footage, but man, aren't you guys tired of seeing these super gradings coming out of the camera? We aren't all going to be shooting the next matrix.
Eh, I don't think the grade on her footage is too extreme. It still looks pretty good to me, even if it's not natural it still "feels" natural, or in context with the content.
it definitely works for the piece. Im just saying you can't take that kind of grading and shoot something like "Role Models". Would love to see some more natural looking footage coming out of these cameras.
Kholi
10-31-2009, 10:35 AM
it definitely works for the piece. Im just saying you can't take that kind of grading and shoot something like "Role Models". Would love to see some more natural looking footage coming out of these cameras.
Role Models is still graded, though, like any feature film. It's all in context.
I'm not a fan of heavy grading, by the way, just is what it is, though. The footage I put up is all out of camera and I'm happy with the contrast and color.
Nitsuj
10-31-2009, 10:41 AM
I seem to recall a post not long ago where somebody threw up a video wanting to know why his example was more video like despite same settings and lens than another video he found. I looked at the video and only difference was it had music and was edited. There are a lot who seem to lose sight of the big picture. It's not so much the technical aspects to give you that "cinematic" experience but the combination of the arts to bring it together. It also takes artistic vision to put it all together in an expressive way. If it was as easy as getting a camera, adjusting settings, and shooting than everybody would be a good filmmaker. Too often credit is given to the equipment when it should always be given to the filmmaker. Least this is how I see it.
Role Models is still graded, though, like any feature film. It's all in context.
I'm not a fan of heavy grading, by the way, just is what it is, though. The footage I put up is all out of camera and I'm happy with the contrast and color.
Yes Kholi, i understand it depends on the context, that is not at all the point im trying to make,
Im saying that films like role models, 40 year old virgin, funny people, you name it, all have a much more natural look coming out of them, regardless of the post grading. Yes, i know the grading has something to do with the final output, but then lets also keep in mind that we too have tools to do grading thus we too should be able to achieve similar results:
http://thefilmstage.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/pineapple-express.jpg
http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/843/843662/pineapple-express-20080104043442384_640w.jpg
versus
http://movieimage.tripod.com/matrix/matrix04.jpg
http://movieimage.tripod.com/matrix/matrix11.jpg
From what i've seen on this board, most everyone is capable of achieving dramatic looking footage with a grading that goes beyond naturalistic. I would love to start seeing stuff that looks much more natural coming out of these cameras.
Kholi
10-31-2009, 11:18 AM
You're arguing against yourself by asking people to give them the look YOU want for THEIR project. That's nonsensical. If they feel it fits their project then the natural look you want to see is not the right look....
You're perfectly welcome to do what you're requesting and show us how it looks.
you are a real pain you know that kholi?
It's not for "me" or what I want, its in the spirit of helping anthony discover a way to help him define a look that is not "video" but without having to show him stuff that has grading that could never be used unless the context called for it.
and p.s. drop your ego, telling people "you're arguing against yourself" who do you think you are dude..
Anthony, ill try to get some stills up soon to show you, in my opinion, how the camera can look more or less videoish and why. Just right now, everyone in my house is sick with the flu, thus i have no subjects to test on lol. Give me a bit of time and ill post some stuff that will hopefully help you out with just the way the camera can deliver the image, regardless of all the other things that must be invested in order to make anything "cinematic", such as framing, camera movement, lighting, etc...
Anthonyb
10-31-2009, 11:34 AM
you are a real pain you know that kholi?
It's not for "me" or what I want, its in the spirit of helping anthony discover a way to help him define a look that is not "video" but without having to show him stuff that has grading that could never be used unless the context called for it.
and p.s. drop your ego, telling people "you're arguing against yourself" who do you think you are dude..
Anthony, ill try to get some stills up soon to show you, in my opinion, how the camera can look more or less videoish and why. Just right now, everyone in my house is sick with the flu, thus i have no subjects to test on lol. Give me a bit of time and ill post some stuff that will hopefully help you out with just the way the camera can deliver the image, regardless of all the other things that must be invested in order to make anything "cinematic", such as framing, camera movement, lighting, etc...
Thanks Papa I'm really looking forward to it. I basically have to make the decision by Monday. Yikes.
Kholi
10-31-2009, 11:35 AM
it definitely works for the piece. Im just saying you can't take that kind of grading and shoot something like "Role Models". Would love to see some more natural looking footage coming out of these cameras.
This is the post im referring to. You want to see more natral footage. Anthony clearly wants to know what Camille is doing. Show him your footage of a natural stuff and see if he likes it as much??? Doesn't think it looks video?
What her colorist is doing isn't straight out of camera or natural which is why it gets so much attention.
hmm, that fast huh, kk then i guess i could try something else in the meantime to try and help you out. Give me a few minutes.
and just so im on the right track, what will you be shooting with the 7D? Do you want to go heavy grading or something more naturalistic just so that im not arguing a moot point.
Anthonyb
10-31-2009, 11:39 AM
hmm, that fast huh, kk then i guess i could try something else in the meantime to try and help you out. Give me a few minutes.
and just so im on the right track, what will you be shooting with the 7D? Do you want to go heavy grading or something more naturalistic just so that im not arguing a moot point.
Basically shooting commercials. I need a similar quality to the commercials Camille is putting out there. I have a degree in film production, I understand the editing process, tone, acting, etc very well. The camera is only a tool for me and I want the very best quality tool possible.
ah alright, so you really want to have that style of grading look. Cool. In that case, the 7D would be right up your alley. It can take a decent amount of torture in the grading process before completely breaking apart.
Rest assured that you will be able to get that type of image quality with the right lighting and color grading process, but will you also want the ability to shoot some natural looking footage without the heavy grading process, with the hopes of it not turning out looking "video" ish?
Anthonyb
10-31-2009, 12:13 PM
ah alright, so you really want to have that style of grading look. Cool. In that case, the 7D would be right up your alley. It can take a decent amount of torture in the grading process before completely breaking apart.
Rest assured that you will be able to get that type of image quality with the right lighting and color grading process, but will you also want the ability to shoot some natural looking footage without the heavy grading process, with the hopes of it not turning out looking "video" ish?
Exactly. I just have to see an example of the quality of Camille's work to be convinced the 7D can produce that kind of quality. The problem has basically come down to A) The 7D cannot produce that quality OR 2) The 7D has not been out long enough for anyone to produce something as beautiful as Camille's work.
I am scouring the web every single day for 7D footage and have yet to find anything amazing. The BEST footage from the 7D I've found so far was here:
http://vimeo.com/7165356
Watch the 40-60 second marks and the 1:38-1:46 mark. I've spoken the person who shot this and this footage has been graded. BUT it's still not as *sharp* as Camille's work.
And no this video was not produced by me despite both our names being Anthony haha, these guys are out of Oz.
Camille's video is definitely beautiful done on the 5D. Taking a closer look, even though it has gone through compression thus one can't be certain, it indeed does look very sharp. But if you take a closer look at the strands of hair and the blades of grass when they are in sharp focus, you will see small sharpening artifacts, so my guess is that she either boosted sharpness in camera or in post, again something that can be done with the 7D.
I mean, we are virtually talking about the same camera, but one with a larger full frame sensor, so it has better low light capabilities and shallower depth of field potential. But from what i've read and understood, the 7D's codec is either the same or improved that of the 5D.
Do you not have time to rent one and give it a go before deciding to purchase?
kenn michael
10-31-2009, 12:26 PM
Exactly, don't underestimate the importance of sharpening in post. Most times it's THAT that makes the difference.
most likely shot it with low sharpness and yeah, sharpened in post.
Kellar42
10-31-2009, 01:15 PM
What are people using to sharpen in post? A simple sharpness filter in FCP, or something more advanced?
i just use the unsharpen tool in cs 3
Nitsuj
10-31-2009, 02:15 PM
Exactly. I just have to see an example of the quality of Camille's work to be convinced the 7D can produce that kind of quality. The problem has basically come down to A) The 7D cannot produce that quality OR 2) The 7D has not been out long enough for anyone to produce something as beautiful as Camille's work.
I am scouring the web every single day for 7D footage and have yet to find anything amazing. The BEST footage from the 7D I've found so far was here:
http://vimeo.com/7165356
Watch the 40-60 second marks and the 1:38-1:46 mark. I've spoken the person who shot this and this footage has been graded. BUT it's still not as *sharp* as Camille's work.
And no this video was not produced by me despite both our names being Anthony haha, these guys are out of Oz.
To me the examples you are pointing out both with this and Camille's video all has to do with lighting and proper exposure. A lot of the stuff on the internet that people freely put up are "tests" or people who are not cinematographers or lighting experts. From my understanding these cams go with the old saying "you sometimes need a lot of light to make it look like there isn't a lot of light." Camille's for example looks like it was shot on an overcast or cloudy day. That probably gave it the nice soft yet sharp appearance. The example above looks to me like it was properly lit and exposed to give it that nice cinematic quality to it. So it looks to me that the examples you are talking about are lighting and exposure qualities. Oh and of course proper WB.
Kholi
10-31-2009, 02:39 PM
To me the examples you are pointing out both with this and Camille's video all has to do with lighting and proper exposure. A lot of the stuff on the internet that people freely put up are "tests" or people who are not cinematographers or lighting experts. From my understanding these cams go with the old saying "you sometimes need a lot of light to make it look like there isn't a lot of light." Camille's for example looks like it was shot on an overcast or cloudy day. That probably gave it the nice soft yet sharp appearance. The example above looks to me like it was properly lit and exposed to give it that nice cinematic quality to it. So it looks to me that the examples you are talking about are lighting and exposure qualities. Oh and of course proper WB.
Ayup. Can't wait to see your fear entry btw.
Nitsuj
10-31-2009, 03:10 PM
Ayup. Can't wait to see your fear entry btw.
Hehe well mine is not that high quality natural looking "I got a deep pocket" kind of look. It's the $84 budget, "I'm so broke I can't even pay attention" kind of look. I called my friends and said "Hey wanna be in a bad flick? Well all you have to do is say this line, jump on his back screaming like a possessed lunatic, and have blood hosed on your face. Ready? GO!" Don't expect much more than that trust me. Hehe.
Kellar42
10-31-2009, 03:50 PM
While I thought shallow dof was overused in the Ralph Lauren commercial, it certainly had a pull, a feeling to it.
While slightly off topic, I think we can get this look with any of these cameras: http://www.vimeo.com/7352103
Anthonyb
10-31-2009, 06:16 PM
While I thought shallow dof was overused in the Ralph Lauren commercial, it certainly had a pull, a feeling to it.
While slightly off topic, I think we can get this look with any of these cameras: http://www.vimeo.com/7352103
The GH1 does look amazing.
Kholi
10-31-2009, 06:28 PM
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=188933
did that help at all or still looking for something else? hhopefully more stuff like this shows up.
Anthonyb
10-31-2009, 08:29 PM
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=188933
did that help at all or still looking for something else? hhopefully more stuff like this shows up.
Those were all AMAZING. Loved his comparison with the red and xh a1. The 3rd tutorial was also amazing. The man is a cinematographer, which is vital. His footage is basically the best 7D footage out there. With that said, I still felt like I had to get out the windex and wipe the dust off the screen even in HD mode.
Despite it's drawbacks, it looks like I'll be going with the 5D.
Kholi
10-31-2009, 08:42 PM
Those were all AMAZING. Loved his comparison with the red and xh a1. The 3rd tutorial was also amazing. The man is a cinematographer, which is vital. His footage is basically the best 7D footage out there. With that said, I still felt like I had to get out the windex and wipe the dust off the screen even in HD mode.
Despite it's drawbacks, it looks like I'll be going with the 5D.
Sweet~ Well it's good that you could decide. Better than hanging on and waiting!
ydgmdlu
11-01-2009, 12:28 AM
Question: Is 5D footage noticeably sharper than 7D footage?
kenn michael
11-01-2009, 12:29 AM
In my experience, no.
ydgmdlu
11-01-2009, 12:33 AM
Also, Anthony, Kholi is quite right about the cinematic DOF issue. The ultra-thin DOF of the Ralph Lauren video is not more cinematic than the deeper DOF of footage from the 7D. The 7D has a sensor that is approximately the same size as the Academy 35mm film frame. If you use the same focal lengths and apertures that cinematographers use on their 35mm film productions, then you'll have the same "cinematic" DOF.
So far in this thread, you have not defined exactly what your problem is with the 7D footage that you have seen. You claim that it has a "video" look, but what does that mean? What criteria do you use?
ydgmdlu
11-01-2009, 12:34 AM
In my experience, no.
That's what I thought, but the OP seemed to suggest (unless I'm misinterpreting him) that the 7D is softer than the 5D.
kenn michael
11-01-2009, 12:35 AM
Not to speak for Anthony, but I think he just likes the aesthetic of the 5D better than the 7D. It's a different look. I personally like the 7D more, but again, it's personal.
Each to his/her own opinion.
kenn michael
11-01-2009, 12:40 AM
That's what I thought, but the OP seemed to suggest (unless I'm misinterpreting him) that the 7D is softer than the 5D.
Yes, I think he perceives the 7D softer, but from the 5D footage I shot, it doesn't like any in camera sharpening, and definitely sings when there is sharpening applied in post. I'm sure that this was done in the Ralph Lauren spots.
In camera sharpening is harsh, but applying it later to a slightly softer image yields more natural results. I find both cameras to be a bit 'mushy' out of the camera, but with some processing, you can get some really nice stuff. The 5D/7D can't hold a candle to RED as far as resolution and natural detail resolving power is concerned, but again, with some processing I've been really impressed with the 7D - aside from the crazy aliasing and moire.
GH1 resolves more detail than the 5D/7D, but the Canon has a bit more mojo working for it, and I prefer Canon's color palette to the Lumix.
However, these are just my personal experiences.
ydgmdlu
11-01-2009, 01:11 AM
Not to speak for Anthony, but I think he just likes the aesthetic of the 5D better than the 7D. It's a different look. I personally like the 7D more, but again, it's personal.
Each to his/her own opinion.
If he simply likes the 5D look more, then there's nothing else to be said. However, his original post was about achieving a more "cinematic" look instead of a "documentary" or "video" look. That's an entirely different issue. It's something that can be broken down into criteria, which we can evaluate to help him get the look that he wants.
He might buy a 5D and discover that it doesn't just automatically give him what he wants. As far as I'm concerned, the primary difference between the 5D look and the 7D look is the DOF. DOF alone isn't what makes an image more or less "cinematic."
Ian-T
11-01-2009, 09:52 AM
"I'm so broke I can't even pay attention"...lol...I gotta use this....
Kellar42
11-01-2009, 11:02 AM
One more from the GH1 camp: http://www.vimeo.com/7375177
(I'm not trying to derail this thread, I just found those two videos this weekend, and they seem relevant for the fashion video idea.)
Busting the 'video' look has more to do with other questions than just which camera we're using, be it colors, lighting, shallow dof, softness or sharpness, etc. Theoretically, though, the reason we use any of these HDSLRs is that they have more potential for 'filmic or 'style' than other camcorders in their price range. So, you ought to be able to make the 7D do what you you're looking for, if you study the style behind the videos...
DELTA_Rotary
11-04-2009, 02:37 PM
Hahaha I guess you're right.... but I just wish I could see something this nice shot with the 7D. I love the capabilities of that camera, but ya... Would love to see some footage this beautiful shot with the 7D.
Let me know if you give up on the 7D. Maybe we can work on a trade for this 5D I have. :)