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Jean Dantes
10-21-2009, 07:43 PM
Here is a cool little post by Stu Maschwitz on the 7D:

http://prolost.com/blog/2009/10/21/what-should-i-buy.html

And he's "7D Cine Kit":

http://astore.amazon.com/prolost-20?_encoding=UTF8&node=23

matt s.
10-21-2009, 09:00 PM
nice shout out to the HMC150!

KeeganFlynn
10-21-2009, 10:05 PM
You don't need UDMA cards to shoot video. Why do people keep saying this.

Barry_Green
10-21-2009, 10:12 PM
You don't need UDMA cards to shoot video. Why do people keep saying this.
Because Canon themselves said "use UDMA cards; if you use non-UDMA cards then certain glitching and artifacting might show up in the video."

f64manray
10-21-2009, 10:20 PM
Because Canon themselves said "use UDMA cards; if you use non-UDMA cards then certain glitching and artifacting might show up in the video."

Barry, I had a dream that you forgot to use UDMA cards for all your tests, and you went back and redid them with the UDMA cards and the trumpets were beautiful.

KeeganFlynn
10-21-2009, 10:24 PM
Because Canon themselves said "use UDMA cards; if you use non-UDMA cards then certain glitching and artifacting might show up in the video."
That's nice. Has it happened to anyone?

Barry_Green
10-21-2009, 10:40 PM
You asked why, I answered. Canon seems to think it's happened to people, which is why they went in and researched the situation and said "use UDMA and it won't happen."

KeeganFlynn
10-21-2009, 11:25 PM
The 7D manual states that a card with a minimum write speed of 8MBps is required for proper video playback and recording. It doesn't take anything near a UDMA level card to write/read at that speed, in fact my Sandisk Ultra II can do that easily. The only time a UDMA card is mentioned in the manual is when you want to shoot stills during video recording. Furthermore, there is a visible buffer icon that will show on screen when the internal buffer can't write to the CF card fast enough. The fact that the camera is writing to an internal buffer first tells me that there can't logically be any "image degradation" due to a slower card because the internal buffer is extremely quick, and I have to believe that before any 1 or 0s hit the CF card from the buffer, the encoding is done.

The only mention in the manual about image degradation during shooting is for long periods of time due to heat buildup. This is logical as the sensor overheating will of course produce image quality problems.

Frankly, I'll believe the official manual in this instance.

The only reason I believe anyone needs a UDMA card is to be able to burst at full resolution in RAW insanely quick and for fast transfers of data off the card to a computer. For video, a card that's quick enough to not display the buffer warning should be perfectly fine, UDMA or not.

In the interests of not taking this off-topic anymore, I'll just point out the thread we've already had on this: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=184959

Ian-T
10-22-2009, 03:48 AM
.....your mileage may vary,,, :)

Sttratos
10-22-2009, 04:19 AM
Interesting write up.

I also think the 7D is the best option in the HDSLR market right now. The 5D MKII was never even an option for me, not only because it was 30p only but also because the full frame is so inconvenient for filmmaking in my opinion. The 7D with it's "S35" sensor and 24p is the filmmaking version of the 5D. The 1D MKIV doesn't add anything to the video side for it's $5,000 price tag unless you are into low light spy video. I also share Stu's opinion on the GH1 which he wrote in the article. DOA for sure in my opinion too. If it had a better codec I wouldn't even mind the early 2000's pulldown. If it had a better codec, no pulldown and a S35 sensor it would be almost the perfect low budget filmmaking camera.
Back to the 5D I don't get all these people saying the 5D is sharper and has better image quality. I know several people who have 5Ds and I have compared them. I don't think anybody could point which is which if you match the DOF. They both produce the same sharpness and IQ.

SonicStates
10-22-2009, 04:48 AM
DOA for sure in my opinion too.

I couldn't disagree with you more...having said that, it's just my opinion. I am getting wonderful images out of the cam. Sure it has it's limitations but working with and around those has yielded some worthwhile footage. Give me the 7D and I'd probably get decent images out of that too OR if I wanted to I could make them both look like s#$t. I'm not a Panasonic (or any brand for that matter) fan boy but DOA...I hardly think so.

andrew00
10-22-2009, 04:52 AM
Interesting write up.

I also think the 7D is the best option in the HDSLR market right now. The 5D MKII was never even an option for me, not only because it was 30p only but also because the full frame is so inconvenient for filmmaking in my opinion. The 7D with it's "S35" sensor and 24p is the filmmaking version of the 5D. The 1D MKIV doesn't add anything to the video side for it's $5,000 price tag unless you are into low light spy video. I also share Stu's opinion on the GH1 which he wrote in the article. DOA for sure in my opinion too. If it had a better codec I wouldn't even mind the early 2000's pulldown. If it had a better codec, no pulldown and a S35 sensor it would be almost the perfect low budget filmmaking camera.
Back to the 5D I don't get all these people saying the 5D is sharper and has better image quality. I know several people who have 5Ds and I have compared them. I don't think anybody could point which is which if you match the DOF. They both produce the same sharpness and IQ.

Do you feel having a S35-esq sensor is worth it over the 5D's better low light/cleaner image? I mean, all things being equal if one is aware of the 5D's full frame you can still get the images you want even from a cinematic background, but potentially have better light.

The (kinda) slow-mo of the 7D would seem a big draw to me.

Barry_Green
10-22-2009, 08:50 AM
Frankly, I'll believe the official manual in this instance.
And I will believe Tim Smith, the Product Manager for Digital Imaging, who's the boss of all cameras at Panasonic USA. After receiving complaints, he took the complaints to the engineers in Japan, and the response that came from the engineers was "use UDMA cards and the problems go away."

And this would be information that came to light after the manual was written.

mhood
10-22-2009, 08:57 AM
Is this the same fellow who said 24p would never come to the 5D?

Barry_Green
10-22-2009, 09:02 AM
He said he didn't see it happening, that it was not likely, yes. In that same speech.

Kholi
10-22-2009, 09:19 AM
Do you feel having a S35-esq sensor is worth it over the 5D's better low light/cleaner image? I mean, all things being equal if one is aware of the 5D's full frame you can still get the images you want even from a cinematic background, but potentially have better light.

The (kinda) slow-mo of the 7D would seem a big draw to me.


Andrew, I know you're struggling right now with this choice and it's valid. I'm going to start a new thread just for you sometime today when I get a chance to discuss Full Frame and S35-esque shooting for cinematic and commercial acquisition.

But one thing I wanted to let you know right now is that if you're using the MKii to match S35 characteristics then you lose the low light advantage because you have to stop down so very far to begin with just to fatten the focal plane up. Or, in other words, to kill the ultra shallow depth.

So it's actually not better for that reason. Primarily better for Wides, honestly. Everything else the 7D excels at in my opinion. I do still own a 5D along with my 7Ds.

Ian-T
10-22-2009, 09:20 AM
@Barry: LOL...maybe Canon did it out of spite.

Ian-T
10-22-2009, 09:23 AM
But one thing I wanted to let you know right now is that if you're using the MKii to match S35 characteristics then you lose the low light advantage because you have to stop down so very far to begin with just to fatten the focal plane up. Or, in other words, to kill the ultra shallow depth.I think there are a lot of folks who are lost on that point.

Kholi
10-22-2009, 09:29 AM
I think there are a lot of folks who are lost on that point.



Yeah I know. I'm juggling a bunch of stuff right now and I've been meaning to throw up two different threads, that's one of them. I'll try to get to it today to try and curtail the thread deviations elsewhere and get to the bottom of the whole 5D vs 7D thing.

Columbo
10-23-2009, 11:11 AM
I'll try to get to it today to try and curtail the thread deviations elsewhere and get to the bottom of the whole 5D vs 7D thing.

Looking forward to that!

ProLost
10-31-2009, 01:37 AM
That's nice. Has it happened to anyone?

Yes, it happened to me. I had a few dropouts when I shot my first 5D test short (http://prolost.com/blog/2009/4/20/chapter-12-after-the-subway.html). Since then I have stuck with UDMA and not had a problem.

-Stu