Proposal: Pentax category

[Eddy Robinson]

Pentax are also in the DSLR game, with range of budget-friendly cameras. The K-7 is reviewed here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxk7/

In a nutshell, it does 1280 x 720 at 30p, aperture can be set manually and locked, and while shutter speed is not adjustable, it does seem to be locked to match the frame rate, which is of course what we actually want. I don't think you can lock ISO, so you don't have total exposure control. File format is MJPEG/AVI and interestingly bitrate is about 40-45mbps which is quite respectable. Image stabilization is optional. From examples I've seen, it's best left off as it exaggerates rolling shutter considerably. RS in general is not great.

The camera puts out some quite pleasing images, and of course you can find more on Vimeo. This one is an interior low-light test; I tried to pick an example that would be characteristic rather than outstanding.
6805210

Meanwhile, the soon-to-be-released K-x appears to have similar functionality (in terms of manual control, not specifications) but allows shooting at 24fps. It's not out yet so no reviews, but if it has aperture lock in video mode and the shutter is locked to match the 24fps, it might be a contender. Oh, the frame size is 23.6 x 15.8mm, which is very close to Academy 35mm (22 x 16). No HDMI out, NTSC/PAL SD only. but it does shoot 720p. It's due out this month, so there should be some footage up soon.

http://www.pentaximaging.com/slr/K-x_Black/ has (rather terse) specs;
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09091702pentaxKXhandson.asp is a brief hands-on (very brief).

While the image quality and specs seem adequate rather than exciting, the kicker is that the K-x lists at $649 including a lens, and of course you can stick any Pentax lens on it. For $100 or $200 more you can get it bundled with a telephoto lens, for medium and long range respectively. It's definitely not going to win any prizes for image quality, 720 is a bit meh, and auto-exposure looks to be a fact of life; on the other hand the K-7 footage is surprisingly pretty to me, and the sticker price means this will be by far the cheapest vDSLR.

The purpose of this thread is not 'Pentax forum NOW' but to stimulate a discussion about whether there ought to be one when the K-x comes out.

[jrod81]

been shooting for one myself... see my other threads for more info

[Eddy Robinson]

K-x previews here - mostly pretty poor shooting conditions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeGCEKwrbCc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP92f-sJonU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9FETurD5FA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm9W0SJc9OM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2jsUs3I0PQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFRuRe-33sU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxM6GaJx4P0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVKp2umFk2c

Thanks to bwwd for spotting these.

[bwwd]

Ah those ratios,k-x has 3:2 ratio in video mode ,canon cams have 16:9 and dont use whole sensor (which is 3:2) ,they crop to 16:9,in low res canon crops to 4:3,so im not sure if canon is 22x12 (three perforation frame) when its cropped to 16:9 in video mode,k7 has 3:2 in full resolution and 16:9 in 720p.
Anyway k7 is more impressive than k-x so far but still waiting for some non random k-x vids made by peoples who know what theyre doing.

[richtrav]

Are there any full resolution videos from the k-x yet?

And yes I really like the video from my K-7, I've tested it in 1024 mode against a T1i at 1080 and can't see much if any resolution increase using the Canon (and no videos I've seen from the other Canons hint that they would give better resolution). The K-7 seems to have a better dynamic range and a generally more pleasing look and feel to its videos. On the downside, however, it does have even more moire issues and overheats a bit faster. Above ISO 200 or so the videos are noisier but keep more detail, you don't realize how much fine details the Canons will blur away until you compare it to another camera (can that NR be disabled?). There are LOTS of controls on the output of the video's parameters: picture "modes", sharpness, contrast, midtones, highlights, shadows, hue, and saturation are all adjustable. Another big bonus: the 720 mode is downsampled from the full res mode and does not use a coarser sampling routine like Canon, so its 720 is especially good right out of the box

Built-in IS is also fabulous to have, you can use any old m42 lens you want and it'll be stabilized. Yes I'd like to be able to control either shutter speed or ISO, but the camera generally meters in a methodical way: if you lock the aperture it stays at ISO 100 as long as it can until the shutter speed would drop below the 1/30 to 1/40 range, and only then it gains the ISO. It's very easy to change the output parameters while in video mode and even lock and unlock the exposure while shooting. Live view at high magnification does not resample so what you see is what you'll get on the video (incl. resolution and moire)

All in all I have no regrets and don't think I could have bought a better video-DSLR for the price, it's under $1100 now. If you do video it's also nice to have the 5.2 fps burst rate and built-in intervalometer. As a "regular" camera it has a very impressive feature set

If it had more manual controls I think it would get more attention. It's a real sleeper video DSLR

[bwwd]

All cams have serious bug ,its 30p,if all of them would have 23.976 then they would sell much much better and i mean MUCH better ,but when those guys realize this ? They could update them with firmware to new frame rate modes,its not like they have to slow down mechanism to pull the tape slower.

[Eddy Robinson]

You're quite right. I think that most of the manufacturers have gone from the assumption (and maybe quite correctly) that customers' primary goal is to plug the thing into a TV...though on the other hand you'd think they'd be more alert to the 25fps of PAL-land, where a market also exists, or so I've heard :happy:

[bwwd]

Yes and its a small thing its just a silly frame rate number set by technician through computer its not pulling tape mechanism preset to only one speed ,they can do it and this simple change would improve their sales dramatically,they dont realize this,its not video cam yes we heard it but adding 24p and manual ISO doesnt make it video cam too.
If only they could unlock this and give us huge book with instructions how to set up sensor readout at any shutter speed and any any framerate ,that would be perfect,it could be locked to 30 fps max if ts getting hot because of too many fps but give us some control dont lock the damn thing to be "moron proof one button cam" Photographers dont use video anyway cause "DSLR is DSLR" and not all of them have any idea whats the difference between shooting on film and on handycam.So if theyre saying DLSR is not for filmmaking its fors stills then i can say videocams/camcorders are not for filmmaking too because of lack of DOF manual shutter and custom fps like film cameras.

Does it costs more to leave it for us in manual mode than to lock it and there you go film random stuff on auto settings?
Weird.
30p is not funny anymore ,its like making fun of us,they sure heard a lot of complaints about this.
Now 7d has 24p but if canon will release next cam without 24p then there is happening something very wrong in this company .

[TrueIndigo]

Get my vote for a separate entry for Pentax "DSLR in motion", though doesn't seem to be much to write about at the moment...

[jrod81]

i think this has already been stated, but my concerns with this cam (besides resale I guess):
1. 720p and no 1080p (but to be honest, this is not that big of a deal to me personally)
2. it runs on AA batteries... not the end of the world but certainly an annoying thing to deal with
3. no hdmi out... does this do away with use of laptop for a monitor or just a monitor at all?
4. the biggest killer for me is that it is only 24p. that is much better than 30p, but man the 60p of the 7d is so awesome! i shoot a ton of music videos and it just adds so much to shoot at 60p and do slow motion... this is really the main thing keeping me from going with the pentax...

What other issues are we looking at that you guys can see as it compares to the 7d?

[killacam]

What other issues are we looking at that you guys can see as it compares to the 7d?

no manual shutter speed or iso according to pentax reps I think. anyway here are some more vids:

http://www.popco.net/zboard/zboard.php?id=dica_forum_pentax&page=2&sn1=&divpage=2&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=5804

techradar said there was a lot of jello but I haven't seen enough clips with a lot of movement in them to really be able to tell. maybe they had image stabilization off? if you scroll down to the parrot on this page- http://www.popco.net/zboard/view.php?id=just_arrived&no=111 -the one on the left has a lot of jello and the one on the right has much less. I'm not sure what:

http://image.popco.net/Review/DCA/PENTAX_K-x-pre/image/K-x-preview_23.jpg

means, but I'm assuming it's with something on and off. (can someone else translate? I can't cut and paste it into google translator since it's a jpg).

anyway, I second the motion for at least a general DSLR subforum. there are going to be a lot of video DSLRs coming out from a lot of different manufacturers (Pentax, Sony, Samsung, Olympus) and there isn't really a place to discuss them yet. I've kind of been debating whether to get a cheaper DSLR now while waiting for the Scarlet or just to get the 7D now (I figure I could justify the cheaper DSLR purchase better since I could always use a good stills camera anyway and for stills the Pentax is probably just as good as the 7D). the manual shutter, slow motion and live HDMI sure are nice though.

also wanted to add, the 24p update does make the 5d awfully attractive as well, but I feel like by the time the firmware update comes around the Scarlet will be out anyway, and they will be at a similar price (I think the 2/3" Cinema body will be $2750 right? really close to the $2700 for the 5d body only).

[filmamigo]

Another vote for a Pentax forum.

I am hoping to pull the trigger on a video-capable DSLR. For stills, I currently shoot Pentax (switched from Nikon a couple of years ago.) I can't wait to use my Pentax lenses to shoot 24P.

I only wish that 24P was available on the K7. I would much rather have the weather sealed, pro build quality of the metal bodied K7. The K-x is a sweet little camera, but the K7 is in a whole other league.

[Jason Ramsey]

added a poll to your thread.

[stip]

Definately time to at least mention Pentax somewhere!

I think the K-7 provides the most organic video of all DSLRs and I always wondered why noone is talking about it. I shot with D90, 5DmkII and 7D and especially the Canon's give an image I just can't make friends with.


Sweet K-7 examples

http://vimeo.com/6298545

http://vimeo.com/6909971


Concerning the new K-x, the K-7 uses a Samsung sensor while the K-x will have one from Sony, which obviously handles noise a lot better in stills, but I'm afraid image characteristics in video will differ from K-7 and may not be as nice...but that's just a guess and I hope I'm wrong.

[jrod81]

this camera is still not for sale right? bh has it as unreleased and i can't find an actual sale date? anyone?

[jrod81]

then again:
http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?omid=103&ref=froogle&utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PKKX1855K&sku=PKKX1855K

[stip]

There is a guy claiming you can't lock exposure on K-x

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRgg5q_tQeY

HE'S WRONG :)
There definately is an AE-L button on K-x

[Crimson_Fluid]

There is a guy claiming you can't lock exposure on K-x

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRgg5q_tQeY

HE'S WRONG :)
There definately is an AE-L button on K-x


He just posted up another youtube video he figured it out.

[stip]

K-x sample of a cat :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8DcProFQLU

looks good to me (as far as youtube can look good) considering it's probably rather low light.

Looking at the price, K-x is definately something to watch out for, it's a really nice stills camera anyway and comes with a quality kit lens.

[jrod81]

what do you guys need to convince you of a k-x subthread- please!!!!