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Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 03:06 PM
Okay, so -- here's the test I ran yesterday. I put three cameras up to shoot a real-world scene, to see what the real-world sharpness and definition would be.

The cameras involved are an HMC40, a "mystery" camera, and the 7D.

Here's a still frame from the results. Now, note, the results here are pixel-for-pixel extractions out of the full 1080p frames. No resizing, scaling, shrinking, stretching, sharpening, blurring, or anything. I did try to do a little bit of color correcting to get them to match better than they did out of the camera, but I did a lousy job, so they're not really even close.

http://dvxuser.com/barry/ThreeCams.jpg

When I first brought this footage into the computer yesterday, I couldn't accept how blurry the cam on the left was. Something had to be wrong, and all I could think of was that I must have not focused properly. Hence why I wanted to re-run the test, to make absolutely sure. But, even though it's rainy and overcast today, I was able to take the same camera to the same spot, absolutely get accurate focus, shoot some footage, and then compare the resolved detail with what I am showing here, and it was identical so -- I guess I didn't mess up after all. :)

I have arranged them in order from softest to sharpest, left to right. Look at the street light, read the words on the street sign, you'll see there's a huge difference between A and B, and another huge difference between B and C.

So -- I'd like to engage in a little bit of a guessing game before revealing which is which... go to the poll and vote!

Added: some extractions that put stuff a lot closer, so you can really see the differences:
http://dvxuser.com/barry/ThreeCams-1.jpg
http://dvxuser.com/barry/ThreeCams-2.jpg
http://dvxuser.com/barry/ThreeCams-3.jpg

chris f
10-14-2009, 03:15 PM
is the mystery cam the ole trusty DVX?!?!

David G. Smith
10-14-2009, 03:17 PM
Why do I get the feeling that there are going to be some ruffled feathers around here in a little bit.

ydgmdlu
10-14-2009, 03:18 PM
The "mystery" camera will be revealed, right?

Terry_Lasater
10-14-2009, 03:25 PM
is the mystery cam the ole trusty DVX?!?!

That's what I'm thinking too. However, I don't know which one...

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 03:26 PM
The "mystery" camera will be revealed, right?
Of course!

ydgmdlu
10-14-2009, 03:32 PM
I didn't vote this way, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict that the 7D is the sharpest one, but ONLY because Barry said that the results of this test confounded his expectations. And he said that the results were "veeeerrrry interesting." If the HMC40 were the sharpest, then it would be neither surprising nor interesting, based on the sobering resolution test chart that he shot earlier.

I'll have no shame in being wrong...

Stephen Mick
10-14-2009, 03:33 PM
Can we add a vote for…

"Fisher-Price PXL2000 on left, Thomson Viper in middle, Sony BetaMovie B100-P on right"

?

tony240sx
10-14-2009, 03:35 PM
my vote is in.

mhood
10-14-2009, 03:35 PM
I voted the obvious...7D-Mystery-HMC40...and my glass is half empty for sure.

shorty15
10-14-2009, 03:36 PM
Is this the same guy who did the 7D 4K res chart? It seems like the only point of this thread is to show the flaws of the 7D. Whatever the results of this test, I know that the image quality of the 7D will destroy that of the HMC40 and that of the mystery cam, unless it is something like a RED of an EX3. Stop with the image comparisons. This camera cost $1600 and it kills the image coming from cameras that cost 3x to 4x as much. Video shot on the 5D is the best I have seen except for RED and $10,000+ cams. Give it up already.

Perry Wilson
10-14-2009, 03:37 PM
CCCCOOOOMMMMEEEE OOOONNNN ! 7D to the right...

Eddy Robinson
10-14-2009, 03:38 PM
Same here (7d, mystery - which I predict to be a GH1 - hmc), and that option seems to be winning by a large margin. This should be interesting - don't keep us in suspense too long, Barry!


Is this the same guy who did the 7D 4K res chart? It seems like the only point of this thread is to show the flaws of the 7D. (...) Give it up already.

Barry's contributions are both informative and positive, not 'bashing'. As a likely 7d buyer myself I appreciate knowing about the limitations as well as the benefits, so that I don't go through post-purchase disappointment.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 03:39 PM
I voted the obvious...7D-Mystery-HMC40...and my glass is half empty for sure.
Why is that "the obvious"?

You should be voting based on what you think each one looks like, not trying to second-guess how you think I would have arranged them or something... :)

plasmasmp
10-14-2009, 03:39 PM
DVX100 left, 7D center, HMC 40 on the right is my guess. For the dvx, its not a intro model, otherwise the chromatic abberation would be bigger than the sharpest details. HMC 40 has plenty of CA too, just not present in that paticular screenshot. would be funny if left image is from 7D! LOL

patssle
10-14-2009, 03:41 PM
Even if the 7D is one of the blurry ones, how would that explain the sharp images we have seen from other users?

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 03:43 PM
Is this the same guy who did the 7D 4K res chart?
Yes.

It seems like the only point of this thread is to show the flaws of the 7D.
The point is to show what actually happens, and not to "point out flaws".


Whatever the results of this test, I know that the image quality of the 7D will destroy that of the HMC40 and that of the mystery cam
Interesting -- so you're prepared to believe that no matter what, the 7D is the best? Even in the face of evidence which might contradict that? Fascinating. You don't even know what the "mystery cam" is, yet you're certain that the 7D will "destroy" it? What if the "mystery cam" was a 5D? What if it was a Scarlet?


Stop with the image comparisons.
No. :)


This camera cost $1600 and it kills the image coming from cameras that cost 3x to 4x as much.
But does it? Hence the whole point of testing. If it does, the test will show that it does. If it doesn't, the test will show that it doesn't.


Video shot on the 5D is the best I have seen except for RED and $10,000+ cams. Give it up already.
Sorry, but it is attitudes such as this that drive me specifically TO test. I usually find that knowing what the truth is, is far more liberating than just believing the prevailing hype and going along with whatever is the current buzz. Everyone is free to follow their own course, and if the idea of seeing actual results offends you, you don't have to read the thread.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 03:44 PM
Even if the 7D is one of the blurry ones, how would that explain the sharp images we have seen from other users?
Interesting observation -- are you saying that you consider the left two both to be blurry, and the right one the only one that's sharp? Or, asked another way -- do you see the gap between the sharp one and the blurry one as a bigger gap, than the gap between left and center?

Eddy Robinson
10-14-2009, 03:44 PM
DVX100 left, 7D center, HMC 40 on the right is my guess.

'the results here are pixel-for-pixel extractions out of the full 1080p frames' kind of eliminates the DVX :happy:

themusic
10-14-2009, 03:47 PM
Thanks Barry! I also voted 7D left, HMC40 right - but I hope hope hope I'm wrong! When will you let us know?

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 03:47 PM
Can we add a vote forů

"Fisher-Price PXL2000 on left, Thomson Viper in middle, Sony BetaMovie B100-P on right"

?
Is that a write-in vote?

I can put it on the list, but... seeing as I've already said what two of them are, I doubt you're gonna get it. Plus, I would have had to Turnerize the Pixelvision cam...

No vote for the Filmo Sportster?

shorty15
10-14-2009, 03:47 PM
7D on the right, if not than there is something wrong, because the 7D kills the DVX100 in both resolution, dof and dynamic range. The same for the HMC40.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 03:48 PM
'the results here are pixel-for-pixel extractions out of the full 1080p frames' kind of eliminates the DVX :happy:
Does it? What if I used Magic Bullet's HD-izer, or stretched the footage in PhotoShop or something? What if it was an Andromeda DVX? Hmm? Hmm?

mhood
10-14-2009, 03:49 PM
The one on the left has as deep a dynamic range as the one on the right...not as sharp obviously. I'm sticking to 7D-?-HMC40. Of course, I don't have any of them so personal experience and observation is not present in my vote.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 03:49 PM
7D on the right, if not than there is something wrong, because the 7D kills the DVX100 in both resolution, dof and dynamic range. The same for the HMC40.
Yet the tests show that the HMC40 has a stop more dynamic range, and performs better on a res chart, than the 7D... so why do you say the 7D kills the HMC40 in resolution and dynamic range?

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 03:49 PM
For those early-viewers, be sure to see the little extractions I posted in the first post, to make it easier to directly compare sections of the footage.

Rakesh Jacob
10-14-2009, 03:50 PM
Can't wait to see where this goes, these threads are better than reality shows LOL
Personally I'm not into hype, I know what I like when I see it so tests don't really offend me if they don't go a certain way... And I'm fairly brand agnostic. BUT BOY DO I LOVE THE DRAMA THESE TESTS ARE CREATING!!! My new guilty pleasure :)

docrock
10-14-2009, 03:50 PM
"Is this the same guy who did the 7D 4K res chart? It seems like the only point of this thread is to show the flaws of the 7D. Whatever the results of this test, I know that the image quality of the 7D will destroy that of the HMC40 and that of the mystery cam, unless it is something like a RED of an EX3. Stop with the image comparisons. This camera cost $1600 and it kills the image coming from cameras that cost 3x to 4x as much. Video shot on the 5D is the best I have seen except for RED and $10,000+ cams. Give it up already."

Dude...you're coming to the WRONG place if you don't like the "truth" ;)

I guess I'm going to go with the "not so obvious"

DVX, HMC, 7d...

PS....Wouldn't that just chap ya Shorty? If your beloved 7D IS the sharpest tool in the shed? (I have both the 5/7d...feel like I can kinda be a smart ass....sorry....) Let's wait for the results before bashing the conclusion! Dang!

J

Matty_g
10-14-2009, 03:54 PM
I love Barry Green.

themusic
10-14-2009, 03:55 PM
Tick Tock ... we all love Barry!

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 03:57 PM
Let's wait for the results before bashing the conclusion! Dang!
The fun thing is, absolutely no amount of bashing can change the conclusion. :thumbsup:

Rory_B
10-14-2009, 03:57 PM
This is all far too entertaining. Nothing better than when people get their knickers in a knot over camera tests.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 03:58 PM
BUT BOY DO I LOVE THE DRAMA THESE TESTS ARE CREATING!!! My new guilty pleasure :)
It's kinda fun, isn't it?

How soon should I cut it off? 50 votes, or a few hours, a day, what?

patssle
10-14-2009, 03:58 PM
Interesting observation -- are you saying that you consider the left two both to be blurry, and the right one the only one that's sharp? Or, asked another way -- do you see the gap between the sharp one and the blurry one as a bigger gap, than the gap between left and center?

The left 2 are blurry, but the one on the right doesn't look extremely sharp either.

With a 1/4" CMOS, I would put the HMC40 on one of the left 2, due to the poor chroma. Also it records at 24 Mbps in AVCHD while the 7D with a larger CMOS records at 41 Mbps.

So theoretically, the 7D provides superior chroma and compression, and should be the right image - or at least to the right of the HMC40.

Perry Wilson
10-14-2009, 03:59 PM
Come on Barry the anticipation is killing me....

Stephen Mick
10-14-2009, 04:00 PM
Cut it off now…I'm taking my wife out for Tex-Mex and don't want to be re-freshing this stupid thread on my iPhone in the middle of Carne Asada!

Rory_B
10-14-2009, 04:00 PM
50 votes seems fair. It's a broad enough spectrum of people jumping on and off the band wagons of different cameras all within a short time frame to probably be accurate if you left it for an hour, a day, a week, etc.

Maybe a few hours, so we can all get more entertainment from people arguing.

Eddy Robinson
10-14-2009, 04:02 PM
Does it? What if I used Magic Bullet's HD-izer, or stretched the footage in PhotoShop or something? What if it was an Andromeda DVX? Hmm? Hmm?

Ah. I took your opening remarks to mean they all came out of the camera that way, since you said the only posting you'd done was a minimal attempt at color correction. Damn you and your mighty tech probe, sirrah!

ydgmdlu
10-14-2009, 04:03 PM
Only camera nerds would be as crazy about this as we are. :grin:

shorty15
10-14-2009, 04:04 PM
"Interesting -- so you're prepared to believe that no matter what, the 7D is the best? Even in the face of evidence which might contradict that? Fascinating. You don't even know what the "mystery cam" is, yet you're certain that the 7D will "destroy" it? What if the "mystery cam" was a 5D? What if it was a Scarlet?"-Barry

Response: Ya, I am prepared to say that it is the best because 1. If the HMC40 was better than the 7D, then it would be selling like hot cakes since it is only a couple hundred $$$$ more. 2. You are seeing a lot of HVX200's for sale and many HVX guys are jumping on board with these DSLR's 3. I did consider that the mystery cam could be a RED but not a Scarlet because no one has access to them and it could not be a 5D because the difference between the 5D and 7D is not that great.

There is no doubt that these DSLR's (or at least their sensors), seem to be the way forward. Guys like Philip Bloom are using them almost exclusively now.

Eddy Robinson
10-14-2009, 04:06 PM
50 votes seems fair. (...) Maybe a few hours, so we can all get more entertainment from people arguing.

At this rate, I give it about 24 minutes before we hit 50!

patssle
10-14-2009, 04:06 PM
Response: Ya, I am prepared to say that it is the best because 1. If the HMC40 was better than the 7D, then it would be selling like hot cakes since it is only a couple hundred $$$$ more. 2. You are seeing a lot of HVX200's for sale and many HVX guys are jumping on board with these DSLR's 3. I did consider that the mystery cam could be a RED but not a Scarlet because no one has access to them and it could not be a 5D because the difference between the 5D and 7D is not that great.

There is no doubt that these DSLR's (or at least their sensors), seem to be the way forward. Guys like Philip Bloom are using them almost exclusively now.

People are jumping on these because they provide good depth of field, not because they are high quality professional video cameras.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:07 PM
The left 2 are blurry, but the one on the right doesn't look extremely sharp either.
Interesting. Remind me about this once the results are revealed and I'll post the full frame.


With a 1/4" CMOS, I would put the HMC40 on one of the left 2, due to the poor chroma. Also it records at 24 Mbps in AVCHD while the 7D with a larger CMOS records at 41 Mbps.
Ah, but -- a) the chroma is the same between the 40 and 7D, they're both 4:2:0, and b) even though it has less bandwidth, the 40's compression takes full advantage of B-frames, making it actually the more robust/superior compression system! Don't get hung up on numbers, unless you know exactly what the numbers mean! :)

themusic
10-14-2009, 04:08 PM
Mystery Camera: HVX200

Kellar42
10-14-2009, 04:08 PM
Is this the same guy who did the 7D 4K res chart? It seems like the only point of this thread is to show the flaws of the 7D. Whatever the results of this test, I know that the image quality of the 7D will destroy that of the HMC40 and that of the mystery cam, unless it is something like a RED of an EX3. Stop with the image comparisons. This camera cost $1600 and it kills the image coming from cameras that cost 3x to 4x as much. Video shot on the 5D is the best I have seen except for RED and $10,000+ cams. Give it up already.


Look shorty, if you don't like the thread, step-off. You don't have to read the comparisons. But they help the rest of us understand our cameras better and the strengths and weaknesses of each.

The 7D may have a look that you (and many others) like, but it apparently isn't 'destroying' other cams in the price range in many areas. It's not about bashing the camera, it's about understanding. I just don't understand this kind of thinking!

And Barry, on the reveal, as soon as possible, please!

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:11 PM
1. If the HMC40 was better than the 7D, then it would be selling like hot cakes since it is only a couple hundred $$$$ more.
And do you know that it isn't selling like hotcakes?


2. You are seeing a lot of HVX200's for sale and many HVX guys are jumping on board with these DSLR's
Yes, I agree many are jumping on board. But is it because it's better? What if the mystery camera on the right was an HVX200? Oooh, I'd bet that'd get a lot of peoplemad.


3. I did consider that the mystery cam could be a RED but not a Scarlet because no one has access to them
You do know that Jarred Land, the "Fire Chief" of Red, is my business partner in DVXUser, right? Just sayin'...


and it could not be a 5D because the difference between the 5D and 7D is not that great.
And that, of course, depends on who you talk to. Guys like CommanderSpike say it's night and day. Guys like Bloom say he prefers the 5D image. Guys like Kholi say that he's using both on a shoot side-by-side and they look identical. I don't know if anyone's done any controlled testing to verify the differences.


There is no doubt that these DSLR's (or at least their sensors), seem to be the way forward. Guys like Philip Bloom are using them almost exclusively now.
I'd say there's much doubt, and guys like Philip Bloom (well, actually, Philip Bloom himself) said that while the DSLRs are nice, there's no way they're going to replace his EX1+Letus setup. :thumbsup:

patssle
10-14-2009, 04:11 PM
Ah, but -- a) the chroma is the same between the 40 and 7D, they're both 4:2:0, and b) even though it has less bandwidth, the 40's compression takes full advantage of B-frames, making it actually the more robust/superior compression system! Don't get hung up on numbers, unless you know exactly what the numbers mean!

You're speaking strickly from a compression standpoint on the numbers. In video cameras in general, the larger the CCD, the more chroma it provides. So does that general idea carry over to a HDSLR and CMOS?

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:11 PM
At this rate, I give it about 24 minutes before we hit 50!
You may be right. And that's with west-coast folks still at work...

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:12 PM
Ah. I took your opening remarks to mean they all came out of the camera that way, since you said the only posting you'd done was a minimal attempt at color correction. Damn you and your mighty tech probe, sirrah!
Hmm, rats, I believe you have indeed tripped me up in my own words.

So, okay, I'll go back and clarify -- it cannot be a DVX100, because as I said in the first post, no stretching was employed. So yes, you are correct.

Rakesh Jacob
10-14-2009, 04:17 PM
"Mystery"
Did you get your GH1 back?

Eddy Robinson
10-14-2009, 04:18 PM
Awesome! What do I win?

(peeks)

N-no..it can't be..no...NYAAAAGH!

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:18 PM
You're speaking strickly from a compression standpoint on the numbers. In video cameras in general, the larger the CCD, the more chroma it provides. So does that general idea carry over to a HDSLR and CMOS?
CMOS or CCD, that part's irrelevant. Actually a three-chip system (of equal size) will provide a whole lot more chroma than a single-chip system, because the Bayer pattern of a single-sensor means that 1/4 of the pixels are red, 1/4 are blue, and 1/2 are green. In a three-chip system, there's 100% red, 100% green, 100% blue available to the DSP.

In terms of strict numbers, we don't truly know how much chroma the DSLRs are delivering from their source chips because we don't really know how they work; if they're "line-skipping" they might only be delivering 1/9 of the total pixels to the DSP, which (in an 18-million-pixel source imager) would mean about 2 million total pixels. If that was the case, you'd be getting 4x as much red and 4x as much blue and 2x as much green coming from the three-chip system instead of the single-chip.

On the other hand, what if they're binning the pixels in groups of six, as Tim Smith of Canon said? Potentially three million six-pixel pixels could be being delivered to the system, and that'd be enough to make a full-res 1080p image from. But the ratio of red/blue to green would still be 1:2, so... arguably, the HMC40 is delivering more chroma pixels to its DSP.

But, the DSLR's pixels should be larger... quite a bit larger.

Harumph. Numbers... can't really tell based on the numbers. Guess we'll just have to look at the footage!

PSA1
10-14-2009, 04:18 PM
Knowing Barry, 7d is on the left, mystery in the center, HMC40 on the right:happy:

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
10-14-2009, 04:21 PM
My guess: HMC40 left, 7D center, GH1 right.

David G. Smith
10-14-2009, 04:22 PM
.... Don't get hung up on numbers, unless you know exactly what the numbers mean! :)

Oh, great... Thanks Barry! I lost the ability to do math at a Pink Floyd concert back in the day... I guess I am hit!. I suppose I am just gonna have to use my EYES!!!

BTW, did you pick the wings off of flies and torture small animals as a child... you are having too much fun at this.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:22 PM
Knowing Barry, 7d is on the left, mystery in the center, HMC40 on the right:happy:
See, but that's leading you to make a guess based on psychology, not on what you think the actual results are. I might be tricky, I might have faked you out... so the only way to go is to make a vote based on what you think each one actually is. :thumbsup:

patssle
10-14-2009, 04:24 PM
No, we can't tell based on the numbers - sinceon the HDSLR since we don't know how they really work specifically. But just basing it off previous technology, theoretically that's how it would go.

But that's why I said theoretically ;) Nobody will know until you release the results.

And still...if the 7D is on the left or center, I would put forth the question how that is possible with all the sharp video we have seen.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:24 PM
you are having too much fun at this.
The forum could use a little injection of fun now 'n' then.

:evil:

Luis Caffesse
10-14-2009, 04:26 PM
My guess: 7D left, HMC40 center, "mystery cam" on the right

And I think I have an idea of what that mystery cam is.
But that's not what the vote is about exactly... is it?
:)

ChipG
10-14-2009, 04:28 PM
The forum could use a little injection of fun now 'n' then.

:evil:


Amen! :thumbsup:

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:29 PM
Awesome! What do I win?

You haven't won yet... there's still a minute to go, and we're stuck on 48...

Luis Caffesse
10-14-2009, 04:29 PM
So are you doing the reveal at 50 votes?
Or are you waiting on a time?

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:31 PM
Haven't decided. But I'm looking at the numbers, and as we stand now, half the voters think the HMC40 is on the right, and half the voters think the 7D is on the left.

I certainly didn't expect that!

themusic
10-14-2009, 04:32 PM
Aaaw - you said a minute to go ...

galbach
10-14-2009, 04:34 PM
Haven't decided. But I'm looking at the numbers, and as we stand now, half the voters think the HMC40 is on the right, and half the voters think the 7D is on the left.

I certainly didn't expect that!
Hmmm.... the suspense is terrible

ChipG
10-14-2009, 04:34 PM
Hmmm.... the suspense is terrible

Yea, it's like a horror movie.

Luis Caffesse
10-14-2009, 04:36 PM
Yea, it's like a horror movie.

Or a love story....
all depends on which camera you use and what the outcome is, I guess.
:)

mhood
10-14-2009, 04:36 PM
I certainly didn't expect that!

Why not? After the sharpness test, I figured that was the obvious choice.

Jason Ramsey
10-14-2009, 04:37 PM
mystery cam on left, 7d in middle, hmc40 on the right.

later,
Jason

da24MK
10-14-2009, 04:37 PM
what do the winners get??

A) A Varicam??

B) A Scarlet??

C) Any cam they want??

I know you can hook us up Barry!!

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 04:37 PM
The mystery cam is the HMC150 which is also slightly softer than the 40. With that said it might be 7D, 150, 40

mhood
10-14-2009, 04:37 PM
You're at 50 Mr. Green...settle it. :-)

themusic
10-14-2009, 04:38 PM
They're all the same camera - left is HMC40, middle is HMC40 shooting the viewfinder of the RedOne right is the HMC shooting the lcd of the 7D. Tricky Barry, very tricky.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:39 PM
Did I ever say we were stopping at 50?

:evil:

Eddy Robinson
10-14-2009, 04:39 PM
Yes, spill the beans! We've been waiting since yesterday for this revelation!

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:39 PM
They're all the same camera - left is HMC40, middle is HMC40 shooting the viewfinder of the RedOne right is the HMC shooting the lcd of the 7D. Tricky Barry, very tricky.
Close. Actually the one on the left is the HMC shooting the LCD of the 7D which is shooting the viewfinder of the Red One.

Jason Ramsey
10-14-2009, 04:39 PM
Did I ever say we were stopping at 50?

:evil:

Yeah.... right here:


I'm stopping at 50.

:evil:

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:40 PM
Yes, spill the beans! We've been waiting since yesterday for this revelation!
Hmmm... good point... but -- were you waiting for A revelation? or THIS revelation? Could change how I answer...

mhood
10-14-2009, 04:40 PM
...but I've got to go make supper. Could you put me on some sort of a notification list? Maybe some kind of a pre-order arrangement?

themusic
10-14-2009, 04:40 PM
I knew I was on to something. Please Barry - if you want to have fun - just tell us what the mystery camera is and see what people do with that info.

Eddy Robinson
10-14-2009, 04:41 PM
Good thing he's a photographer, he'd make a terrible lawyer.


I knew I was on to something. Please Barry - if you want to have fun - just tell us what the mystery camera is and see what people do with that info.

HV20 (ducks)

Jason Ramsey
10-14-2009, 04:41 PM
Hmmm... good point... but -- were you waiting for A revelation? or THIS revelation? Could change how I answer...

Your answer should be:

"Waiting to here your revelation"

TimurCivan
10-14-2009, 04:41 PM
I bet its
L:7D
M:HVX200/HPX170/HPX500
R:HMC40

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 04:42 PM
Wow...this thread is flyin......

Rory_B
10-14-2009, 04:42 PM
You haven't won yet... there's still a minute to go, and we're stuck on 48...

This definitely implies revealing at 50 votes :D

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:43 PM
Okay, I have to go surfing, the waves are just perfect right now.

I'll post the answers when I get back.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:43 PM
This definitely implies revealing at 50 votes haha
No, that was him betting that we'd hit 50 votes by 7:30, which we didn't get...

shorty15
10-14-2009, 04:43 PM
Response to Barry,

"And do you know that it isn't selling like hotcakes?"

I don't know it for a fact but I am assuming because the two cams came out around the same time and look at the number of 7D tests on Vimeo compared to the HMC40

7D: http://www.vimeo.com/videos/search:Canon%207D
HMC40: http://www.vimeo.com/videos/search:Panasonic%20HMC40


" Yes, I agree many are jumping on board. But is it because it's better? What if the mystery camera on the right was an HVX200? Oooh, I'd bet that'd get a lot of people mad."

My bad, I thought it had been established that the mystery cam was the DVX, It is possible that the mystery cam was the HVX and I would believe that.


"You do know that Jarred Land, the "Fire Chief" of Red, is my business partner in DVXUser, right? Just sayin'..."

Did not know that, sorry. Still, I don't think this would be the place for a reveal of Scarlet footage. My bad for assuming that it was not Scarlet footage but it is highly improbable.


"And that, of course, depends on who you talk to. Guys like CommanderSpike say it's night and day. Guys like Bloom say he prefers the 5D image. Guys like Kholi say that he's using both on a shoot side-by-side and they look identical. I don't know if anyone's done any controlled testing to verify the differences."

Agreed, I'm just saying that the difference between the 7D and the 5D is not as stark as what your footage shows.


"I'd say there's much doubt, and guys like Philip Bloom (well, actually, Philip Bloom himself) said that while the DSLRs are nice, there's no way they're going to replace his EX1+Letus setup. :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]"

Bloom did do a recent article on his blog about how he will still keep his ex3 letus setup but he also says that he has been using his 5D and 7D more and more.

Im not trying to be a jerk but when the Gh1 came out, there was a plethora of tests comparing it to other, different cams and after a while the tests get annoying and I guarantee that this will not be the last test. There will be yet another that gives different results and it will do nothing to change peoples opinions.

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 04:43 PM
....that's cold...

Luis Caffesse
10-14-2009, 04:44 PM
Alright - I have to leave....guess I"ll join the party late.

Have fun without me guys.
:)

Rory_B
10-14-2009, 04:45 PM
No, that was him betting that we'd hit 50 votes by 7:30, which we didn't get...

I was hoping you'd forget that part.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:45 PM
....that's cold...
You're right, it's too cold to go surfing.

So maybe I should reveal something?

ChipG
10-14-2009, 04:46 PM
It would suck if Barry drown while surfing, we'd never know...

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 04:46 PM
ye s....yes,....do reveal

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 04:47 PM
...drumroll please...

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:48 PM
Okay, well, looking at the numbers, we've had a surge of voters in the last five minutes...

... and so far, the majority of you seem to think the HMC40 is the one on the right. Out of 55 votes, 32 of you have chosen the HMC40 to be the sharpest camera in that comparison.

That's over 58% of the votes!

And all 58% of you who voted for the HMC40 on the right... you are all...

Perry Wilson
10-14-2009, 04:48 PM
Hurry barry I am not paying attention to my astro physics lecture because of this thread... and I have an Exam mon... lol

Eddy Robinson
10-14-2009, 04:48 PM
He totally has it typed up and is just waiting for the moment to paste it...probably gonna do it in a new thread and make us all chase him, too. Barry, if this is a new idea please disregard the previous sentence.

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 04:49 PM
-aaawwwwwww

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:49 PM
Wrong.

Eddy Robinson
10-14-2009, 04:49 PM
...'wrong', perchance?

Jason Ramsey
10-14-2009, 04:49 PM
He totally has it typed up and is just waiting for the moment to paste it...probably gonna do it in a new thread and make us all chase him, too. Barry, if this is a new idea please disregard the previous sentence.

don't encourage him...

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:49 PM
The HMC40 is not the one on the right.

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 04:49 PM
????what???!!!

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:50 PM
Hah! Take that, all those of you who thought you would psycho-analyze and make guesses based on what you thought I would do! Hah, I say! :D

ChipG
10-14-2009, 04:50 PM
$ so far here :)

Eddy Robinson
10-14-2009, 04:50 PM
I'd like to change my vote, and say the 7d is now on the right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem

Jason Ramsey
10-14-2009, 04:50 PM
wow...

Then either the hmc40 has something crazy going on with it that makes it's real world sharpness in that particular circumstance fubar'd compared to the charts... or the mystery cam was an hpx300

Later,
Jason

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 04:50 PM
....that's just wrong man....

Perry Wilson
10-14-2009, 04:51 PM
whats the results MHAN! mu laptop is dying and I dont have a plug in the lecture hall...

Rory_B
10-14-2009, 04:51 PM
Everyone who voted for the 40 being on the right are going to claim they're dyslexic. Unless of course it's in the middle.

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 04:51 PM
....wait....isn't the native footage from the 7D contrasty....???

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 04:52 PM
7D on the right...

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:52 PM
Then either the hmc40 has something crazy going on with it that makes it's real world sharpness in that particular circumstance fubar'd compared to the charts... or the mystery cam was an hpx300
I blame it on the 4:2:0. But wait until you see the size of the full frame, remember this is a small extraction; if I downrezzed it to full-frame 720 you'd be all "whoa, that's hyper-sharp"...

ChipG
10-14-2009, 04:52 PM
....wait....isn't the native footage from the 7D contrasty....???

Not if you lower it.

speculator
10-14-2009, 04:52 PM
0-0. actually voted with the mass. After viewing some footage I shot on campus and was focusing from background to foreground and captured a frame...noticed the 7d was surprisingly sharp in detail on objects and signs 200 ft away.

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 04:52 PM
(sigh).....my new name is Flipper!!!

patssle
10-14-2009, 04:53 PM
I blame it on the 4:2:0. But wait until you see the size of the full frame, remember this is a small extraction; if I downrezzed it to full-frame 720 you'd be all "whoa, that's hyper-sharp"...

Why would you down rez? Were you not shooting 720p on all the cameras?

Perry Wilson
10-14-2009, 04:54 PM
do we know where the 7D is yet?

Jason Ramsey
10-14-2009, 04:54 PM
he didn't down-rez. what we are seeing is a pixel for pixel extraction from the full 1080 frame on all 3 cams.

later,
Jason

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:55 PM
Why would you down rez? Were you not shooting 720p on all the cameras?
I shot 1080 on all cameras, then extracted a 720p-sized frame out of the center. I was gonna post video on vimeo, and vimeo gives a maximum size of 720p. I didn't want vimeo to downrez the footage, so I extracted it pixel-for-pixel first.

As it turns out, vimeo's recompression totally destroyed the footage so I decided to go with a still frame.

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 04:55 PM
7D...40....mystery cam

Boz
10-14-2009, 04:55 PM
True peers would be other DSLRs like D90, 5Dm2, and GH1... I'm just sayin' :-)

Jason Ramsey
10-14-2009, 04:55 PM
I blame it on the 4:2:0. But wait until you see the size of the full frame, remember this is a small extraction; if I downrezzed it to full-frame 720 you'd be all "whoa, that's hyper-sharp"...

which would mean the mystery cam is the hpx300.... or perhaps some other 4:2:2 cam

Later.
Jason

TimurCivan
10-14-2009, 04:56 PM
oh shoot i didnt read that it was a full 1080p extraction.

hmmm perhaps my vote needs a rethink.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:56 PM
do we know where the 7D is yet?
Not yet.

But interesting, more of you voted against the 7D, than voted for it. According to the poll, 26 of you voted the 7D the blurriest, and only 10 of you voted it the sharpest.

shorty15
10-14-2009, 04:56 PM
As I said from the beginning, 7D on the right. Unless Barry has an ace up his sleeve like the RED One

patssle
10-14-2009, 04:57 PM
he didn't down-rez. what we are seeing is a pixel for pixel extraction from the full 1080 frame on all 3 cams.

later,
Jason

Then that possibly changes the game even more. Does the 40 CMOS upscale the image like the CCD does on the HVX200?

Jason Ramsey
10-14-2009, 04:58 PM
the 40 is a 1920x1080 sensor block if i am not mistaken.

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 04:58 PM
....I hate reverse psychology.....my wife does enough of that every day.

Rory_B
10-14-2009, 04:58 PM
Not yet.

But interesting, more of you voted against the 7D, than voted for it. According to the poll, 26 of you voted the 7D the blurriest, and only 10 of you voted it the sharpest.

Your giant voodoo chart from the other day has everyone spooked.

Perry Wilson
10-14-2009, 04:58 PM
I def. Voted for the 7D as it is the new love of my life... don't tell my wife... lol

patssle
10-14-2009, 04:58 PM
the 40 is a 1920x1080 sensor block if i am not mistaken.

Ok, then nevermind if it does.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:58 PM
which would mean the mystery cam is the hpx300.... or perhaps some other 4:2:2 cam
Maybe... hmmm...

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 04:58 PM
Unless Barry has an ace up his sleeve like the RED OneI thought that too....but.....nahhhhh

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 04:59 PM
the 40 is a 1920x1080 sensor block if i am not mistaken.
Correct, three 1920x1080 chips recording to a 1920x1080 recording format. That's the reason I chose it as one to compare the 7D against.

Eddy Robinson
10-14-2009, 05:00 PM
At least reveal what the mystery cam is, then we can have another 3 pages of hand-waving while Mr Green cackles maniacally...

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:00 PM
Your giant voodoo chart from the other day has everyone spooked.
Voodoo?

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/7868/375818-voodoo_large.jpg

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:01 PM
At least reveal what the mystery cam is, then we can have another 3 pages of hand-waving while Mr Green cackles maniacally...
Now where would be the fun in that?

Okay, though, let me reveal the "mystery cam's" price bracket... it's under $3,000.

Heh.

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 05:01 PM
At least reveal what the mystery cam is, then we can have another 3 pages of hand-waving while Mr Green cackles maniacally...
What do you think he's been doing in the background....

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 05:02 PM
....a1

Jason Ramsey
10-14-2009, 05:03 PM
do all 3 cams have a 1920x1080 block?

Zak Forsman
10-14-2009, 05:03 PM
my guess is HMC40, "mystery" camera, and the 7D.

I suspect the mystery cam is possibly the GH1, because the detail in the trees reminds me of how the compression affected the foliage in "Nightlight". And I'd say the middle and right image have the same degree of sharpness, but the contrast increases your perception of clarity... and the 7D is reputed to have a more contrasty image. I don't know anything about the HMC40 so i'm throwing it off to the left. ;)

galbach
10-14-2009, 05:04 PM
5d markII ?

stephenvv
10-14-2009, 05:04 PM
:violin:Please don't let the mystery cam be the HV30 I just sold

Jason Ramsey
10-14-2009, 05:05 PM
my guess is HMC40, "mystery" camera, and the 7D.

I suspect the mystery cam is perhaps the GH1, because the detail in the trees reminds me of how the compression affected the foliage in "Nightlight". And I'd say the middle and right image have the same degree of sharpness, but the contrast increases your perception of clarity... and the 7D is reputed to have a more contrasty image. I don't know anything about the HMC40 so i'm throwing it off to the left. ;)

sure... change your vote now... :)

shorty15
10-14-2009, 05:05 PM
If its under 3,000 than the mystery cam could be a Canon HFS100, XHA1, HMC150, possible a Sony cam.

mikkowilson
10-14-2009, 05:06 PM
I think the one on the right is shot on 35mm film.


A Canon(?) 35mm film SLR perhaps?


- Mikko ... pouring gas on the fire

matt s.
10-14-2009, 05:06 PM
150 is about $3400.

Flip Mino HD :)

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
10-14-2009, 05:06 PM
Shouldn't the poll be frozen now since you've already released a partial answer? (Just wondering.)

shorty15
10-14-2009, 05:07 PM
or the GH1, but still, having a GH1 myself, My footage is not that blurry.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:07 PM
:violin:Please don't let the mystery cam be the HV30 I just sold
I guarantee you it's not the HV30 you just sold.

Now, it could be a different HV30, but not the particular one you just sold... :engel017:

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 05:07 PM
....I think he went surfing anyways...

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:08 PM
Shouldn't the poll be frozen now since you've already released a partial answer? (Just wondering.)
Oh Peter... don't go bringing logic in here, or I'll have to stop my maniacal cackling!

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 05:08 PM
HFS10....Final Answer

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:08 PM
do all 3 cams have a 1920x1080 block?
Only one does.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:08 PM
HFS10....Final Answer
Flipper.

Perry Wilson
10-14-2009, 05:09 PM
Barry at least PM me the location of the 7D I need to pay attention to class for god sake... lol

Zak Forsman
10-14-2009, 05:09 PM
"mystery cam" is definitely a Sennheiser 416.

PaPa
10-14-2009, 05:09 PM
man, i would really like to know.. This is difficult.

Jason Ramsey
10-14-2009, 05:09 PM
Only one does.

doh... i guess i should re-phrase that....

Do all 3 cams have at least a 1920x1080 block?

later,
Jason

Lucian
10-14-2009, 05:10 PM
mystery cam is on the right, and it's 5d. I know this.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:11 PM
Okay, someone help a brother out -- how do I close the poll? :)

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 05:12 PM
..it's a trick question....don't answer it.

stephenvv
10-14-2009, 05:12 PM
To close a poll, take your mouse, click to Fedex.com and ship all three cameras to me :)

Jason Ramsey
10-14-2009, 05:13 PM
Okay, someone help a brother out -- how do I close the poll? :)

closed.... text on teh top right that says "edit poll" then check the box at the bottom.

later,
Jason

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:13 PM
To close a poll, take your mouse, click to Fedex.com and ship all three cameras to me :)
That would literally be impossible.

mhood
10-14-2009, 05:13 PM
Lock the thread and announce the results in another.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:14 PM
closed.... text on teh top right that says "edit poll" then check the box at the bottom.

Ah. Well. Guess that shows who's mr. smarty pants and who isn't...

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:14 PM
Why not announce the results here?

stephenvv
10-14-2009, 05:14 PM
That would literally be impossible.

Ah, more clues. The mystery camera is an IMAX 3D underwater rig.

TimurCivan
10-14-2009, 05:14 PM
announce please sir.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:15 PM
Okay.

So.

Now...

The answer to the question that's been driving all of america crazy...

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:15 PM
And the answer is...

TimurCivan
10-14-2009, 05:15 PM
42?

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:15 PM
Kristin Shepard!

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 05:16 PM
AAAAWWWWwwwwww

mikkowilson
10-14-2009, 05:16 PM
:grin:




- Mikko

TimurCivan
10-14-2009, 05:16 PM
ahh but what was the question?

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:16 PM
Oh, wait, that's the answer to the question "Who Shot J.R.?"

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:16 PM
Bonus points if anyone can answer the question "What's the frequency, Kenneth?"

TimurCivan
10-14-2009, 05:16 PM
wasnt that a dream anyways?

Zak Forsman
10-14-2009, 05:16 PM
hmm, i was way off.

mhood
10-14-2009, 05:17 PM
You are cruel sir! Do you charge by the hour?

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:17 PM
Okay... so... first things first. The one in the center was ...

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:17 PM
The HMC40!

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 05:17 PM
I need therapy

Perry Wilson
10-14-2009, 05:18 PM
1994 r.e.m?

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 05:18 PM
7D ON left

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:18 PM
The HMC40 was in the center. Only 14 out of the 61 people polled got that right. That's a correct-answer ratio of only 23%.

You folks really must try harder next time.

Bueller?

TimurCivan
10-14-2009, 05:19 PM
still waiting..... that Mystery cam better be a Scarlet or im bored..... lol.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:19 PM
7D ON left
Flipper.
http://thewarrenreport.com/wp-content/uploads/flipper.jpg

PaPa
10-14-2009, 05:19 PM
7D, HMC40, Scarlet

mhood
10-14-2009, 05:20 PM
yea but most of us put the 7D on the left...

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:20 PM
still waiting..... that Mystery cam better be a Scarlet or im bored..... lol.
Even if the 7D was on the right?

Perry Wilson
10-14-2009, 05:20 PM
wheres my bonus points?

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 05:20 PM
....I'm just confused

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:20 PM
yea but most of us put the 7D on the left...
Yes indeed, most of the voters put the 7D on the left.

Almost half the voters put the 7D on the left.

29 out of 61.

And they were all...

TimurCivan
10-14-2009, 05:21 PM
he he he.....


I love torturing the DVXers....

PaPa
10-14-2009, 05:21 PM
i kinda enjoy it too... Is that wrong?

mikkowilson
10-14-2009, 05:22 PM
Even if the 7D was on the right?

Ouch.
:nads:



The logic, it burns!
:violent5:


- Mikko

Zak Forsman
10-14-2009, 05:22 PM
tune in tomorrow, folks for the exciting conclusion!

Lucian
10-14-2009, 05:22 PM
This is fun. Thankfully I'm in to masochism.

Eddy Robinson
10-14-2009, 05:22 PM
REally, this surprises me after the trumpet tests the other day. While the sign is pretty sharp, I really hate the way the leaves on the trees look in that center shot. I would have expected better...of course, there's a hell of a lot of one color in that shot so maybe I'm being overcritical.

plasmasmp
10-14-2009, 05:22 PM
oh dear god, this thread is torture. someone blow some 4k trumpets quickly.

Kellar42
10-14-2009, 05:22 PM
What, I just caught up on 14 pages, how can it stop here?! Sheesh, this is crazY! Least I knew the HMC couldn't be the one on right...

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:22 PM
doh... i guess i should re-phrase that....

Do all 3 cams have at least a 1920x1080 block?
Hmm, I seem to have missed this question earlier, so I'll catch up on it now.

Yes, a 1920x1080 block was the absolute minimum in this test.

Now, where was I?

PaPa
10-14-2009, 05:23 PM
didn't he call it mystery cam for the new mysterium sensor? :D

Eddy Robinson
10-14-2009, 05:24 PM
this better not be a teaser campaign for a new book which contains the answer...

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:24 PM
didn't he call it mystery cam for the new mysterium sensor? :D
Are you picking up on the subtle hints?

Folks seem to forget that Scarlet footage has already debuted, with Izzy, so would I really be breaking such new ground to debut a little more in this thread?

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:24 PM
this better not be a teaser campaign for a new book which contains the answer...
Hah! Someone must have been around for the "watch this space" thread...

PaPa
10-14-2009, 05:25 PM
Yes you would!! Sick!

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 05:25 PM
.....anything's possible

Eddy Robinson
10-14-2009, 05:25 PM
Scarlet's supposed to be more than $3k though, at least until they took the prices down last week....I can't believe I'm still F5ing this thread

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/successful_troll.jpg

ChipG
10-14-2009, 05:25 PM
All 3 cams under $3k, I guess I'm taking the fun out?

PaPa
10-14-2009, 05:26 PM
on with it now...

TimurCivan
10-14-2009, 05:26 PM
maybe panny has updated the GH1.... Since afaik the cheapest scarlet is above 3k...

PaPa
10-14-2009, 05:27 PM
or maybe Barry heard of some news regarding the new price to introduce the scarlet cam and has one for his playing pleasures...

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:29 PM
Right. Sorry, got distracted there. Now, where was I?

mhood
10-14-2009, 05:29 PM
That's like having an erection lasting more than four hours...you can call your doctor or you can call your friends and brag about it.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:30 PM
Ah, yes... The Reveal.

Okay, well, without further adieu and without much more torture, the winners are...

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 05:30 PM
&D on the right...I can tell by the white sky

Rory_B
10-14-2009, 05:30 PM
Voodoo?

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/7868/375818-voodoo_large.jpg

lol nice picture. I only call it voodoo, since most people think the sky is falling after seeing rez charts if their camera doesn't perform well enough.

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:30 PM
<wait, that's the Emmys, not the 7D test results. Wrong envelope.>

Perry Wilson
10-14-2009, 05:30 PM
wooo hooo scarlet 2/3 body for 1700(wishful thinking) in hopes to be competitive with the 7D

Ian-T
10-14-2009, 05:33 PM
I now officially have IBS

Rakesh Jacob
10-14-2009, 05:33 PM
JEBUS CRIPES I'd hate to be your kids on x-mas!!

*and hits "F5"

PaPa
10-14-2009, 05:33 PM
is this a spiritual question? Is the mystery camera the soul? Or human eye?

... Is this Scientology?

TimurCivan
10-14-2009, 05:33 PM
i now officially have ibs

lmao

plasmasmp
10-14-2009, 05:35 PM
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7171/fulln.th.jpg (http://img115.imageshack.us/i/fulln.jpg/)

7D is so versitile it can do all three if you just point the cam at this thread :violin:

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:35 PM
The camera on the left was...


The 7D.


The HMC40 was in the center. And significantly sharper. With way more color.

And that really surprised me. I was so surprised I refused to believe it. I thought the 7D must have been out of focus, hence why I was going to re-run the test. But today, even though the sky was totally different, I was able to go to the same spot and frame the same shot and focus tightly on the street sign and shoot again, and got the exact same results, so...

Yeah. That's how it shakes out.

The cam on the left is, indeed, the 7D, in 1080/24p movie mode.

I tried to yank down some of the saturation out of the HMC40 to make it look more like the 7D. But I'm not a post guy so I only got it in the ballpark.

The HMC40 is way sharper, but both of them smear the trees; I'll just have to assume that's either the h.264 compression at play, or the 4:2:0 color sampling. Look at the street sign and the lamp post, the HMC40's street sign is legible, but on the 7D it's total mush. On the lamp post, on the 7D it almost looks blurred, on the HMC40 it's noticeably clearer. On the trees, there's much more detail on the HMC40 than the 7D. But the mystery cam beats the pants off both of 'em; I mean it's like the HMC40 and 7D are two fleas fighting over who owns the dog, and the mystery cam is the dog!

But what could possibly the mystery cam be? Because, to my eyes, the mystery cam laid a thwompin' on the 7D and a pretty good buttkicking on the HMC40.

patssle
10-14-2009, 05:35 PM
Actually, I pull back my comment about a 1920x1080 block on the 40 not mattering. That type of resolution on a 1/4" CMOS sucks.

I wonder what the results would look like if you had shot 720p instead.

Not sure how the 7D can be so blurry in your test and so sharp in other people's footage.

speculator
10-14-2009, 05:38 PM
Not to sure if Barry gave out the 7d results. But heres a screen from a 7d footage I took for kicks. Looks pretty damn sharp in the distance imo (focused area is 1.5 blocks away. Shot on a cloudy day with kit lens options set on lowest for saturation and sharpness) http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t257/specranger/crop.png

*update. And... too posted too late :(

stephenvv
10-14-2009, 05:38 PM
The camera on the left was...


But what could possibly the mystery cam be? Because, to my eyes, the mystery cam laid a thwompin' on the 7D and a pretty good buttkicking on the HMC40.

It's only really exciting if it costs the same or less at the 40 or 7D...

but please don't let it be a Canon HV series :)

PaPa
10-14-2009, 05:38 PM
It could easily enough be something like that A1 or HV20, if not the scarlet. But the only benefit there would just be to tell us to use another cam for wides :P

TimurCivan
10-14-2009, 05:38 PM
but what lens are you using for the 7D on these tests barry? just curious.

patssle
10-14-2009, 05:39 PM
speculator (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=27562): There's no way that image is sharp.

galbach
10-14-2009, 05:39 PM
The thread that killed the 7d...

mhood
10-14-2009, 05:39 PM
Come on!!! It's not too late for me to cancel my Amazon pre-order, dump the Canon lenses I've bought and get me a mystery camera!

Kholi
10-14-2009, 05:39 PM
7D far left, HMC 40 middle, HPX170 far right

ChipG
10-14-2009, 05:39 PM
Was the GH1 ruled out?

TimurCivan
10-14-2009, 05:40 PM
dont think so....

galbach
10-14-2009, 05:40 PM
anyone want to buy a 7d?

speculator
10-14-2009, 05:40 PM
speculator (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=27562): There's no way that image is sharp.
Already stated that the focus is on the background (or near the car) not the lady. The signs which are 1.5blocks away are still readable even if slightly off focus

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:40 PM
It's only really exciting if it costs the same or less at the 40 or 7D...

but please don't let it be a Canon HV series :)
Would it bother you if it was a Canon?

Rakesh Jacob
10-14-2009, 05:40 PM
At least the mystery cam is under 3K

Kholi
10-14-2009, 05:41 PM
Oh under 3k. Nevermind.

Michael Olsen
10-14-2009, 05:42 PM
An Swars.

PaPa
10-14-2009, 05:42 PM
Common, there are soo many other things i'd rather be doing now, but I'm too damn interested to know what the mystery camera is. Stop hogging everyone's evenings! lol

Barry_Green
10-14-2009, 05:43 PM
I wonder what the results would look like if you had shot 720p instead.
Worse for the Canon. Its 720p is just plain not good. It's much closer to the 40 in 1080 than it is in 720.


Not sure how the 7D can be so blurry in your test and so sharp in other people's footage.
That's the thing -- sharp is sharp only if what you're comparing it to is softer. People are complaining about the sharpness of the "mystery cam" too, wait until they find out what it is...

Oh, and by the way, these tests were all done with sharpening/detail set to absolute minimum. In case that wasn't clear. I wanted to test the resolving power of the imagers, not the edge enhancement circuitry!