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View Full Version : Comparison of HMC 150 vs GH1



JBH
10-09-2009, 08:59 AM
I own a HMC 150 and am considering getting a GH1 as my main cam and using the 150 as my wide angle cam. It would be awesome if someone could compare the performance of the GH1 to the 150, since those of us in the video world use our video cameras (not the 5DM2) as our reference point.

Will the GH1 better in low light than the 150, etc.? Can we see a side-by-side?

Thanks in advance.

Jack

Ben_B
10-09-2009, 10:30 AM
I am shooting a low light test of the HVX vs GH1 vs EX-1 next week and I am trying to get an HMC-150 for it as well. This is for a production so it will be pretty specific to our needs. Will post results of HMC vs Gh1 if I get an HMC (which I probably can do.)

JBH
10-10-2009, 08:09 AM
Great. Thanks. That would be great.

Ken Steadman
10-10-2009, 08:34 AM
I have been editing an HMC/Sgblade vs GH1 test from a couple of weeks ago. The GH1 color is very "punchy" even on standard color mode. I can say I'm having a bit of trouble getting to blend nicely. Otherwise this edit would have done last week.

john deaver
10-13-2009, 09:17 PM
Of all the test and comparisons, the this vs that threads around with the 5D/7D /Gh1 back and forth this is the only comparison i am interested in.

At this point i don't even care if its just stills.

i really dont care about numbers at all, i just want something that will integrate into my existing workflow (shooting with the hmc150) and shoot better in low light and might also be able to double up as a third camera at a wedding ceremony as well (shoots longer than 12 min) then do some low light on the dim lit dance floor later in the reception.

thats a total run on sentence but F it. its late and its been a long day and i need another beer.

werd
John

PappasArts
10-13-2009, 11:14 PM
I own a HMC 150 and am considering getting a GH1 as my main cam and using the 150 as my wide angle cam. It would be awesome if someone could compare the performance of the GH1 to the 150, since those of us in the video world use our video cameras (not the 5DM2) as our reference point.

Will the GH1 better in low light than the 150, etc.? Can we see a side-by-side?

Thanks in advance.

Jack

Well not a 150, however this was a GH1 shoe mounted to the top of an HPX-170. If I recall, he even said the GH1 720 footage was better than the 1080 of the 170.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=175852&page=5


.
Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com

pailes
10-13-2009, 11:34 PM
I own both and from an image quality perspective the GH1 outperforms the HMC easily, especially in low light. However the codec of the HMC is so much better. Some things you simply can not do with a GH1 but with the HMC it's no problem at all (scenes with much detail, fast motion etc).

I also have to say that I like the image of the HMC a lot. It might not be as clear and crisp but it has a certain look I like a lot.

john deaver
10-14-2009, 05:45 AM
I own both and from an image quality perspective the GH1 outperforms the HMC easily, especially in low light. However the codec of the HMC is so much better. Some things you simply can not do with a GH1 but with the HMC it's no problem at all (scenes with much detail, fast motion etc).

I also have to say that I like the image of the HMC a lot. It might not be as clear and crisp but it has a certain look I like a lot.


This is useful info. at a dark reception i limit myself to 12 db gain, iris open up all the way of corse and whatever we get we get. Wr try to correct in post when we can and in the end sometimes we make do with grainy dark footage. Our philosophy is the Bride/groom/family would rather see something grainy rather than nothing.

if anyone is game, if they could pick a well lit scene in an an interior space,

then turn out all the lights,

then shoot some footage with the 150 at 12 db gain vs the GH1 with whatever settings produce the best image posable (in the users opinion) that would be more valuable than any other footage i have seen. Hell jack the iso all the way up. If i was using it i wouldn't stop raising the iso until the image was a s grainy as the 150 or correctly exposed whichever came first.

thanks
John


also Pailes is the kit lens brighter at f3 (or whatever is wide open for this lens) than the HMC or are you having to use faster glass.

pailes
10-14-2009, 07:22 AM
also Pailes is the kit lens brighter at f3 (or whatever is wide open for this lens) than the HMC or are you having to use faster glass.
I think F4 is the lowest setting for the kit lens. With the HMC you can go much lower than that, but the image of the HMC gets very noisy as soon as you don't have tons of light while the GH1 can still produce a decent picture even at ISO 400 or ISO 800.

I mainly bought the GH1 because I wanted to have very shallow dof without having to buy a 35mm adapter.

swyzlstyx
10-14-2009, 09:23 AM
FWIW...

The GH1 is terrible in low light with the kit lens, compared to a video camera. The lens is also very short compared to the zoom lens of any video camera...which is not exactly ideal for wedding videography, considering you're often stuck shooting from the back row of a big church. It does have a digital zoom, however, but you have to stop the recording to activate it.

The kit lens is simply SLOW. f4-f5.8 is f4-f5.8 regardless of how big of a sensor you put it in front of, so even with a big on-camera light (I'm using a TorchLED TL50) I still have my GH1 max'd out the entire reception at ISO1600....and still struggle to get an image.

For all practical purposes, the GH1 simply is NOT a very good wedding ceremony camera. But, I think it has the potential to be a pretty good reception camera when fitted with the new 20mm f1.7...I've got one on pre-order...especially for the non-formal/candid stuff. For the wedding ceremony, you'd be WAY better off shooting with an HMC150, IMHO. I'm considering picking one up myself.

If you're a wedding videographer with an unlimited budget, I'd probably suggest a 5D over a GH1, but a GH1 over a 7D...but I've never owned a Canon camera...other than an AE-1...inherited from my Dad. ;)

I've shot 3+ weddings with the GH1 so far, with my SD9 palmcorder unmanned for the wide shot/backup, during the ceremony, and 5 more to shoot this month alone...so I'm really putting it to the test as a 1-man wedding video operation. I make inexpensive no-frills videos...delivered in 7 days...so practicality and efficiency are VERY important for my business.

Here's some shots from this past weekend, no post processing done except for 1080/24p pulldown removal using NeoScene, for what they're worth:



GH1 using the indoor lighting WB preset, at 140mm, f5.8...NOT in a very dark chapel...just ugly lighting....
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/680722072_UZ3Ns-L.jpg





For comparison, my Panasonic AVCHD 1080/24p SD9 palmcorder on a light stand in the back of the chapel, also using the same indoor lighting WB preset:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/680722096_jRMC8-L.jpg







Reception/1st dance with the 14-140mm kit lens and a TorchLED TL-50 LED Light on the hot shoe:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/680722106_C2nvA-L.jpg



Same...
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/680722125_x6Wzb-L.jpg








Some shots using the GH1 and an Olympus OM Zuiko 50mm f1.8 manual lens at various ISO's....
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/680722156_7KnTe-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/680722167_byx65-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/680722176_Cno2z-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/680722189_xFqik-L.jpg


http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/680722194_yLm99-L.jpg



Shooting video with the 50mm f1.8 was a lot of fun, but 50mm is REALLY impractical at a wedding reception, because of the 2X crop. For example, to shoot people dancing, I had to stand on the other side of the hall! Fortunately, this is a huge new reception hall, and not very crowded. I can't wait for that Lumix 20mm f1.7 to get here!

Good luck!!

john deaver
10-14-2009, 01:21 PM
FWIW...

The GH1 is terrible in low light with the kit lens, compared to a video camera. The lens is also very short compared to the zoom lens of any video camera...which is not exactly ideal for wedding videography, considering you're often stuck shooting from the back row of a big church. It does have a digital zoom, however, but you have to stop the recording to activate it.

The kit lens is simply SLOW. f4-f5.8 is f4-f5.8 regardless of how big of a sensor you put it in front of, so even with a big on-camera light (I'm using a TorchLED TL50) I still have my GH1 max'd out the entire reception at ISO1600....and still struggle to get an image.
For all practical purposes, the GH1 simply is NOT a very good wedding ceremony camera.


also your stills look great. if the lighting is as dark as i believe it it there is no way i could get stuff that clean with a 150

not at 12 db

you say those screen caps are at various iso's How far did you go up until you felt like the grain started becoming unacceptable.


Thanks
John

ydgmdlu
10-14-2009, 01:53 PM
I'd probably suggest a 5D over a GH1, but a GH1 over a 7D...
Out of curiosity, why do you think so?

swyzlstyx
10-14-2009, 02:00 PM
also your stills look great. if the lighting is as dark as i believe it it there is no way i could get stuff that clean with a 150

not at 12 db

you say those screen caps are at various iso's How far did you go up until you felt like the grain started becoming unacceptable.


Thanks
John


Yeah, they aren't movie-quality stills, but wedding videographers know what I mean...they aren't bad considering the lighting conditions. Working with lots of gain is normal.

At the reception, it was VERY dark...the house lights were completely off...just some lights on the walls, the band's lights, and candles on the tables.

I got no problems at ISO1600...I think all the pics above were at ISO1600 at 1/30 shutter speed (that's why they're not real sharp) except for maybe the picture of the band.

You can crank it up past 1600 by using the exposure compensation wheel but it really looks like crap. But then again...not any worse than a grainy video camera.

My mouse-finger is itching right now to buy an HMC150 to use during the wedding ceremony...but damn its nice carrying around such a small camera kit to weddings right now!!! :) My whole kit fits in a small backpack which I can keep on me at all times (so it doesn't get stolen), and I use a tiny lightweight tripod since the GH1 is so little. It's great!!

(from my GH1 post at VU http://www.videouniversity.com/forums/gforum.cgi?post=489532 )

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/620090896_riGcy-L.jpg



http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/636338010_jk4sh-L.jpg

ajamils
10-14-2009, 02:38 PM
GH1 can take pretty decent pictures in low light (with the right settings). All pics taken with kit lens with manual WB.

john deaver
10-14-2009, 02:43 PM
one of the things i would like to try is i have a bunch of old SLR zooms (canon FD and minolta mount at like 90mm f/2.8 and 200 at f/4 with the 2X crop factor those become very very long indeed and that would make a great camera for reaching out and getting that close up from the back of the hall.

how about one of those huge sports lenses for an extreme close up on the tear running down the brides face. thats the sort of thing i could cash in on all day long.


later
john

john deaver
10-14-2009, 02:45 PM
GH1 can take pretty decent pictures in low light (with the right settings). All pics taken with kit lens with manual WB.

is the camera more/less/the same sensitivity in video mode as stills mode?

also how close is the viewfinder to what you will get in the end?

ajamils
10-14-2009, 02:56 PM
is the camera more/less/the same sensitivity in video mode as stills mode?

also how close is the viewfinder to what you will get in the end?

It's about the same for both.

john deaver
10-14-2009, 03:59 PM
well ya'll just about got me talked in to it.

while i will admit the 5D/7D stuff looks good i just cannot deal with the 12min record times.

plus everyone agrees that the ergonomics of the gh1 are better, and it really doesn't matter how the picture looks if your screwing with the camera instead of getting the shot.

how do ya'll find the shoot-ability.

thanks
john

swyzlstyx
10-14-2009, 04:33 PM
is the camera more/less/the same sensitivity in video mode as stills mode?

also how close is the viewfinder to what you will get in the end?


Keep in mind that with stills you've got flexibility when it comes to shutter speeds. That being said, when taking still pictures, the in-lens IS of the 14-140 works pretty well...you can take some pretty long exposures with no blur!

I don't use the IS for video...since IS does some wierd stuff on the GH1 just like it does on many video cameras. Then again...I only shoot video from a tripod (at least if I'm charging someone for the work), and shoot in 1080/24p.

The electronic viewfinder has grown on me for taking stills...it was wierd to use at first. But being able to SEE your target in low light, unlike an SLR, is turning out to be a pretty good thing...but it's nothing like what your actual exposure will be.

As for video, I usually only use the LCD, which is tiny and hard to focus with. I'm almost 38, so I wear 2X reading glasses to blow up the little LCD so that I can make a better attempt to focus. But what's on the LCD in video mode is pretty close to what is recording, with the exception of shutter speed (until you start recording...then it looks exactly the same...more or less).

Pretty fun little camera...I still wouldn't suggest it as a main ceremony camera for wedding video...but it can be done. I've shot the past couple of years on a 1/4" Sony FX7...which sucks in low light (but better than GH1 during ceremony), and I still got paid. ;)

Sync issues with the GH1 are a whole other issue when it comes to making wedding videos...but that's getting off topic...don't get me started...I'm dealing with that mess again tonight...my weekly nightmare. :Drogar-Angry(DBG):

swyzlstyx
10-14-2009, 04:39 PM
well ya'll just about got me talked in to it.

.....plus everyone agrees that the ergonomics of the gh1 are better.....


Just pick up a roll of gaffers tape if you don't have any already....because you'll want to tape up the SDHC card door while shooting...or risk tearing it completely off! It opens VERY easily...and is in a very vulnerable spot. the GH1 is not extremely rugged...it wasn't built for professional event work. I'd be surprised if mine lasts 1 year before it gets worn out. The buttons, SDHC card door (unless you tape it shut and use a large capacity card), lens mount, etc all get a workout during a wedding+reception. But, hopefully they'll start selling GH1 bodies or GH2's soon! :happy:

tflak
10-14-2009, 05:05 PM
As for video, I usually only use the LCD, which is tiny and hard to focus with. I'm almost 38, so I wear 2X reading glasses to blow up the little LCD so that I can make a better attempt to focus.

Just wondering if you've tried the Manual Focus Assist which gives you either a 5x or 10x mag to help with those "old" eyes.? (p.80 & 129 of the manual)

swyzlstyx
10-14-2009, 05:40 PM
Just wondering if you've tried the Manual Focus Assist which gives you either a 5x or 10x mag to help with those "old" eyes.? (p.80 & 129 of the manual)

Unfortunately that feature doesn't work while recording video, so it's pretty much useless to me when shooting event/wedding video. I could see how it would be very useful to those who are shooting on a film set using old manual lenses, however.

At a wedding, I only have 1-2 seconds to drop the tripod, frame the shot, lock the focus, and get the recording. Like in my examples above, I don't think I nailed the focus once while shooting with the 50mm f1.8 OM lens...the DOF is too shallow for run-n-gun stuff. I can't wait to get the new 20mm f1.7...I hope the autofocus is fast.

Having a single-point auto-focus is one of the best things about using a photo camera to shoot video. (I had always wished they would have put that feature into video cams.) But, IMHO Panasonic seriously dropped the ball by not allowing AFS on the GH1...only AFC. So, I can imagine I'll have worn out the shutter button from holding it down so much to retain focus, or torn the focus swith knob completely off from turning it back and forth from MF-to-AFC 200 times a wedding. :Drogar-Thinking(DBG

tflak
10-14-2009, 05:48 PM
Ah yes, can understand how that wouldn't apply to the type of shooting you do. Most of my stuff gives me the luxury of time to compose shots and stop recording between takes. Wasn't thinking when I suggested it for you.

john deaver
10-14-2009, 05:52 PM
...I still wouldn't suggest it as a main ceremony camera for wedding video...but it can be done. I've shot the past couple of years on a 1/4" Sony FX7...which sucks in low light (but better than GH1 during ceremony), and I still got paid. ;)

. :Drogar-Angry(DBG):

I wouldn't presume to question your opinion of course but i would like more explanation of this point.

you wouldn't recommend it for ceremonies because of the short and slow lens right?
or are there other issues?

bear in mind that i'm talking about using this as a 3rd camera. My primary would be an hmc150 (or maybe an hmc40) at the back of the house for a wide, 2nd would be a close up camera somewhere up the right hand side (in order to get brides face) and the GH1 at the rear to get a close up with a long non-kit lens or perhaps hidden to get the bride coming down the isle.

thanks
john

swyzlstyx
10-14-2009, 06:18 PM
I wouldn't presume to question your opinion of course but i would like more explanation of this point.

you wouldn't recommend it for ceremonies because of the short and slow lens right?
or are there other issues?

bear in mind that i'm talking about using this as a 3rd camera. My primary would be an hmc150 (or maybe an hmc40) at the back of the house for a wide, 2nd would be a close up camera somewhere up the right hand side (in order to get brides face) and the GH1 at the rear to get a close up with a long non-kit lens or perhaps hidden to get the bride coming down the isle.

thanks
john


You're exactly right...in the video world the GH1 kit lens is extremely slow and short. Even with a non-kit lens, you'd be pushing the limits trying to get a close-up of anything from the back of the church with the GH1.

Even the HMC150's lens isn't near as long as I'd like it for shooting weddings. I got spoiled using the FX7 with its 20x lens. It's really one of the reasons I never pulled the trigger on the HMC150...I was worried the zoom length wouldn't be practical. I shoot alone, and do a lot of Catholic weddings down here....so I'm usually stuck shooting from the very back pew/center aisle, with the SD9 in the balcony on a wide shot unmanned.

Some lens comparisons with their 35mm equivalents....

GH1: 28-280mm f4-f5.8 $1499
HMC150: 28-368mm f1.6-f3 $3499
FX7: 37.4-748mm f1.6-f2.8 $1999

The GH1 has a pretty cool 2X digital zoom which actually looks pretty good....but f5.8 is f5.8. :embarasse

The FX7's 1/4" sensors sucked for weddings, but that lens range/speed was awesome...it was perfect with a WA converter attached....I never took it off.

That kinda range/speed would be insanely cool on a micro-4/3 camera...but I guess the lens would be MASSIVE and cost more than a new car?



I think the GH1 would probably be really great as your #2 camera, for getting close-ups of the bride's face during the vows from the side of the altar area. The shallower DOF would also be nice there.

Either way, I think you'd like it. For $1499, I have no regrets...I'm forcing myself to use it as my main wedding camera...it's fun to use. I think the 7-14mm and 20mm lenses will put this little camera over the top for me finally!