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Kholi
10-03-2009, 04:06 PM
How's this thing work?
Does it interfere with Polarizer Operations?
How's the quality? Is it Multi-Coated?
How much does it protrude? Does it interfere with Wide Angle operations (11mm)
How's Flaring/Contrast?
Different Brands and Locations to Purchase?
Weight?

I'm using Hoya HMC ND's and I'm pretty happy, considering another set for my 5D and second 7D but I will look into the Fader for convenience. Just need to know how it works.

Biggest fear is that it's like a polarizer: if you have a lens that, when focusing, the barrel rotates then the polarizer becomes useless. =T Is the Fader like this or is it a totally different operation?

Thanks in advance.

USLatin
10-03-2009, 04:16 PM
Subscribing. I would love to see the answers to your questions.

(I have one coming. You are welcome to come by to check it out and tell me what you think of it.)

I did a little math from the specs on their site for the 77mm (82mm front). They say it is compatible up to 21mm full frame. So I guess it would work without vignetting on an APS-C down to 13.125mm, right? Eventually I'll also have a Tokina 11-16, so I am wondering if I should have gone with the bigger one like Barry did and gotten a step up ring, even if 14mm should be enough for most situations... :(

dadoboy
10-03-2009, 04:27 PM
Is the FADER ND made out of glass or plastic/resin?
If it's plastic / resin, no thanks! Would rather stack NDs in a matte box.
Same questions as above - does it work by the same principles as a polarizer? And by doing so, only selectively cuts light (makes the sky darker, etc.)?

EDIT: seems like a poster on Vimeo notes a big color shift when using this effect. Gag me with a spoon! Don't f*ck up your colors for the sake of convenience!

Kholi
10-03-2009, 04:56 PM
Is the FADER ND made out of glass or plastic/resin?
If it's plastic / resin, no thanks! Would rather stack NDs in a matte box.
Same questions as above - does it work by the same principles as a polarizer? And by doing so, only selectively cuts light (makes the sky darker, etc.)?

EDIT: seems like a poster on Vimeo notes a big color shift when using this effect. Gag me with a spoon! Don't f*ck up your colors for the sake of convenience!

This is exactly the kind of info I needed to find out.

Glass please. My Hoya filters are all glass and do NOT shift colors. Like Dado, I would rather take the time to stack than to take a quality hit when there's already so much working against you.

USLatin
10-03-2009, 05:09 PM
I didn't even think glass was an "option"... crud... :crossing fingers:

mhood
10-03-2009, 05:18 PM
He uses the word "glass" in its description...semantics aside.

dcoughla
10-03-2009, 06:10 PM
He uses the word "glass" in its description...semantics aside.

I'm holding one (72mm) in my hand right now. Pretty sure it's glass.

edit: Mine was purchased from Light Craft Workshop ... waiting on my 7d to do some tests :)

Jackson Miller
10-03-2009, 07:37 PM
Hmmm. I like it for some things. I would say that it slightly mutes the colors. The more expensive version might not. Bloom has a shoot out.

f64manray
10-03-2009, 07:54 PM
Hmmm. I like it for some things. I would say that it slightly mutes the colors. The more expensive version might not. Bloom has a shoot out.

Can you post a link to that?

squig
10-03-2009, 08:11 PM
Mine should be arriving this week so I'll fill in some blanks. There's a thread on the fader ND @ cinema5D http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3250 I'm using hoya ND's too but the convenience of being able to turn a filter ring to nail exposure for 100 bucks was too sweet a deal to resist.

How's this thing work?
It's a linear polarizer attached to the front of a circular polarizer.

Does it interfere with Polarizer Operations?
Nope singh-ray sell one with a polarizer attached too.

How's the quality? Is it Multi-Coated?
I'd say for 100 bucks you're getting 2 cheap chinese polarizers but I haven't heard any complaints from any MKII users apart from a slight colour cast.

How much does it protrude? Does it interfere with Wide Angle operations (11mm)
From memory I think it starts to vignette at about 16mm on a full frame.

How's Flaring/Contrast?
I'll get back to you on that one.

Different Brands and Locations to Purchase?
There's a couple of ebay sellers.

Weight?
Are you serious?

Kholi
10-03-2009, 08:24 PM
Weight?
Are you serious?

The question answering a question leads me to believe that you haven't experienced an 80-200/2.8 ED Nikon Zoom on the front of a camera before. Nor the heavier 70-200/2.8 VR... Or even a 180/2.8 C/Y Zeiss Planar T*

The question is valid, especially considering Glidecam 4000 Operations and extra weight balancing.

Ty.

squig
10-03-2009, 08:44 PM
The question answering a question leads me to believe that you haven't experienced an 80-200/2.8 ED Nikon Zoom on the front of a camera before. Nor the heavier 70-200/2.8 VR... Or even a 180/2.8 C/Y Zeiss Planar T*

The question is valid, especially considering Glidecam 4000 Operations and extra weight balancing.

Ty.

Hehe, I've put an isco 54 on a nikkor 180 ED that's about 2kg, do you think you'd notice the added weight of 2 thin glass filters? Are you planning to race your 7D?

yeah a lens cap throws off the balance of my blackbird.

PaPa
10-04-2009, 07:44 AM
So whats the tally then? Best bang for the buck would be what exactly? This would replace the whole adjusting exposure with the iris of the video camera through a 35mm adapter. Very good idea to pick one up, just a question of which one...

mhood
10-05-2009, 06:48 AM
I asked the maker the "glass" question at his ebay store and got this answer:

"Hi. This is made of Imported Glass. From our users comment, we
did not receive comments on a color shift (which is usually a
reddish color shift on ND). We got a few reviews from our users
and you could find that out at our web site.
www.lightcraftworkshop.com. Thank you.

- bonifaceleung"

Isaac_Brody
10-05-2009, 08:08 AM
I'm picking one up and should have it later this week and will post my experience with it.

USLatin
10-05-2009, 10:03 AM
www.lightcraftworkshop.com (http://www.lightcraftworkshop.com)

Thanks for posting that.

This Vimeo is very telling: http://www.vimeo.com/5536709

Apparently there is a little green cast but no change in kelvin.

I suppose that is something that can be dealt with by WB'ing, right? And it should be constant (from using green glass?) and not vary based on angle. Correct?

Cranky
10-05-2009, 10:08 AM
This is the star effect I was getting in hotspots with FaderND. I am not sure would I get the same stars without the filter. Generally, it works fine for what it is, it seems that it softens image a bit, but I cannot quantify it.

USLatin
10-05-2009, 10:11 AM
This is the star effect I was getting in hotspots with FaderND. I am not sure would I get the same stars without the filter. Generally, it works fine for what it is, it seems that it softens image a bit, but I cannot quantify it.

Serious?! That is bad... nice if you want it, but not supposed to be there on an ND! Could you please do a still test comparing the same subject with and without the ND? Using shutter to set equal exposure I suppose. Please?

I am hoping it is the lens!

mhood
10-05-2009, 10:14 AM
I don't understand how an ND filter could introduce stars.

USLatin
10-05-2009, 10:17 AM
I don't understand how an ND filter could introduce stars.

How's so? What are they caused by?

mhood
10-05-2009, 10:28 AM
Starburst filters (I thought) and the glass is engraved AIUI to cause the stars. But I'm a stoopid noob...what do I know?

Cranky
10-05-2009, 10:28 AM
I don't understand how an ND filter could introduce stars.
Well, I am not saying that the filter introduced stars. I got these stars while shooting with the filter on, and I never took the filter off so I cannot compare. Maybe filter is not a reason. Avoiding hotspots is easy with zebras, I just left some of them and got these stars. But this is a shiny bumper, not just a white wall, so I might have gotten them without filter as well. I just don't know.

Otherwise, I like using the filter. The consumer camcorder I am using has no built-in ND filter, and adjusting shutter speed is very cumbersome and time consuming through a multifunctional ring, so I just set shutter speed and aperture once and for all, and adjust light transmission using FaderND, this is so much easier.

Ian-T
10-05-2009, 01:10 PM
I've been using two Hoya circular polarizers on my HV20 for quite some time. Isn't this the same concept? If so it would be a lot cheaper option.

Jackson Miller
10-05-2009, 02:13 PM
Actually Bloom Doesn't have a shootout but I believe he basically said the more expensive one seems ever so slightly better. He says a lot about them in general though and loves them:

http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/07/07/vari-nds-ideal-for-video-dslrs-and-35mm-adaptors/

http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/07/22/loving-the-fader-nd-and-singh-ray-vari-nd-life-savers/

Isaac_Brody
10-05-2009, 03:53 PM
Everyone says the Singh is better, but I haven't seen any actual footage to prove that. I think it's just the assumption that if it costs more it must be better.

PaPa
10-05-2009, 04:22 PM
I too would like to see a comparison before purchasing.

puredrifting
10-05-2009, 04:28 PM
I have used both but unfortunately sold the Singh Ray before I bought the Fader so I never did a side by side comparison. Fader ND induces no major color shift, might have a small color shift. Those stars would be cause by the aperture blades, really no different than bokeh. The more blades on the iris, the more points in the starburst. It is not caused by the filter.

The Fader NDs are great, I have a 77mm and a 58mm.

Dan

PaPa
10-05-2009, 04:35 PM
On their site, when they give two filter sizes, which one is for the lens it's attaching to and which one is it's own filter size? lol

Cranky
10-05-2009, 05:14 PM
The smaller size is male, the larger is female.

ydgmdlu
10-05-2009, 07:57 PM
I've been using two Hoya circular polarizers on my HV20 for quite some time. Isn't this the same concept? If so it would be a lot cheaper option.
To make a variable ND filter yourself, you need at least one linear polarizer. The only thing that you'll accomplish with two circular polarizers is a variable color-shift filter that ranges from blue to yellow. Not surprisingly, Singh-Ray also makes just such a color-shift filter.

USLatin
10-05-2009, 07:59 PM
Those stars would be cause by the aperture blades, really no different than bokeh. The more blades on the iris, the more points in the starburst.

Thank you Dan. I really appreciate it when people take the time to lay things out for those of us with a trillion questions.

Does WB with the filter on takes care of green? Or is WB only temperature related?

ydgmdlu
10-05-2009, 08:38 PM
Does WB with the filter on takes care of green? Or is WB only temperature related?
In my limited experience, severe color shifts caused by a variable ND filter cannot be corrected through white balance. It's probably due to the double-polarization blocking certain wavelengths. You might be able to WB-out small color shifts, though.

squig
10-05-2009, 11:16 PM
sok Ian is color blind, he keeps telling me he's asian. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

dadoboy
10-06-2009, 12:40 AM
The normal way of white balancing is to do it without any filtration or NDs at all, and then you apply the filtration as it pleases your color palate and look.

I don't think I've ever white balanced with NDs or Polarizers on, because I assumed those filters would not apply much if any color cast. But even some quality 4x5 ND filters do have a very slight green or yellow color cast.

Its probably best for slight shifts to get it out in post - its probably more trouble than its worth having the 7D or 5D do it, because it may do strange things to your other colors as well - say you want that warm look, or that cool look - and yet you're trying to get out a little green and in that process the WB neutralizes that color shift that you like? It gets complicated.

Ian-T
10-06-2009, 06:39 AM
sok Ian is color blind, he keeps telling me he's asian.

Ha ... I do have what I call a blackanese uncle (black/chinese).

But seriously the two circular polarizer’s I’ve been using can just about completely block out the sun and allow me to adjust my aperture wide open. Some of those polarizer’s have markers on them also (both mine do). Have any of you ever tried it? I’ll believe you if you say there is a slight shift in color….but that is what I use white balancing for.

EDIT: I think I'm confusing the terms here...what I meant to say is two "Linear" polarizers. My bad.

The thread i learned this trick from was over at HV20.com here (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=1132&highlight=polarizer).
Halsu's video example also is here (http://eki.pp.fi/temp/Eki/HV20/Poltest.mpg).

Cranky
10-06-2009, 09:50 AM
I shot this with the Fader ND on:

6923062

I kept aperture at F4.0 and shutter speed at 1/48 throughout, it was a really hot sunny day, a high noon, so the Fader ND was cranked up. I used daylight WB preset, the video is not color corrected except for levels and reducing green saturation in one of the scenes. Judge for yourself whether color looks right for you.

P.S. You can see noticeable judder, I attribute it to my amateur panning and to the fact that I forgot to turn OIS off.

Isaac_Brody
10-06-2009, 09:57 AM
That looks pretty good Cranky.

Richard Wilis
10-06-2009, 11:47 AM
Can anyone tell me if the front of the Fader ND has a thread as well? For stacking other filters?

mhood
10-06-2009, 11:49 AM
Yes but it is larger. I suppose that's where the two sizes come in...one for the back and a bigger size for the front of the filter. You'll probably need a new lens cap; I did with the 58mm I just got.

squig
10-06-2009, 01:01 PM
Ha ... I do have what I call a blackanese uncle (black/chinese).



I'm a bit colourblind too, my kids are half chinese.

I've heard the fader-nd vignettes less than the singh-ray because it's thinner and has larger front glass. It's been 3 weeks and I'm still waiting for mine, must be on a slow boat from china.

Cranky
10-06-2009, 01:09 PM
My Fader ND has 52mm to the camera and 58mm outside for other attachments. I ordered a round 58mm screw-in lens hood. I also bought a 52mm lens cap, originally for a still camera, I think for Nikon but I am not sure. It holds well.

No vignetting for me because I use it on a 37mm lens with 37mm-to-52mm step-up ring.

Jackson Miller
10-06-2009, 03:34 PM
The only thing I worry about with mine is how the hell will i use it once I get a mattebox? Is it pretty much impossible to use the two together?

Cranky
10-06-2009, 03:37 PM
The only thing I worry about with mine is how the hell will i use it once I get a mattebox? Is it pretty much impossible to use the two together?
I have a Cokin A filter set with filter holder. It uses a round ring that screws onto a lens or a filter, then the filter holder snaps on this ring AT ANY ANGLE. I bought a Cokin A 58mm ring, this is the largest ring for the Cokin A system. If there is enough time, I can adjust brightness with the Fader ND first, then snap Cokin filter holder on and shoot. Obviously, this would not work if you need to adjust Fader ND constantly.

USLatin
10-06-2009, 05:51 PM
It's been 3 weeks and I'm still waiting for mine, must be on a slow boat from china.

Serious? When did they send you the e-mail to say it had shipped? I got confirmation a few days ago.

squig
10-06-2009, 05:53 PM
The only thing I worry about with mine is how the hell will i use it once I get a mattebox? Is it pretty much impossible to use the two together?

Been thinking about that myself, I'm going to try a rubber lens hood between the mattebox and the fader nd. I've got a genus mattebox coming in a week so I'll report back.

alexandroff
10-06-2009, 05:58 PM
these ND's or screw on filters are to stay light and efficient and carry your cam with you daily and take great pics/footage. it's not that you carry a MB with you daily.
i think it's something of this philosophy: http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=35643

USLatin
10-06-2009, 11:39 PM
There was a little delay because of holidays in Hong Kong, but it looks like I get mine next Friday, or at the latest on Wed 21st.

They very quickly replied to a few e-mails I sent (late at night) answering all my questions. Nice customer service. This sure is a nice touch: "Yes, we come with lens cap for our fader ND filter, except 52mm and 58mm." So it seems most of them come with the free caps. I love getting free stuff.

Osslund
10-07-2009, 05:16 AM
The only thing I worry about with mine is how the hell will i use it once I get a mattebox? Is it pretty much impossible to use the two together?

Actually I had the same worries but it works out just fine. I try to post pictures/video of how it works this week.

Simon Höfer
10-07-2009, 08:15 AM
Ordered one this morning. Will hopefully arrive tomorrow! :D Some advantages you have when you are in Hong Kong :D

I can also walk into some shops over here and just buy any lens adapters directly. Pretty convenient :)

USLatin
10-07-2009, 01:32 PM
Ordered one this morning. Will hopefully arrive tomorrow! :D Some advantages you have when you are in Hong Kong :D

Haha! You bastard! ;)

Let us know, maybe post a pic or two?

Columbo
10-14-2009, 03:30 AM
"To achieve a cinematic look when shooting in bright daylight at f2.8 at 1/60th or slower, requires a drastic amount of reduction of light that hits the sensor. I used a Singh Ray Variable ND filter. While the filter can reduce the amount of light by 2 to 8 stops, I had serious problems with uneven coverage, so part of my frame would be darker than others. I have tried Fader ND filters, but also have the same problem."

http://www.dslrnewsshooter.com/2009/10/14/photojournalist-danfung-dennis-how-i-cover-the-afghanistan-war-with-the-5dmkii/
(Cracking 5D docu trailer on that link)

Think I'm going to fork out for some proper ND filters after reading that.

USLatin
10-14-2009, 04:29 AM
Thanks for that link Columbo.

USLatin
10-19-2009, 09:59 PM
Haven't played with it much but it seems like a bargain. It seems it is a good piece of gear, but you might have to consider its range of ND to be smaller than advertised, from minimum to a stop or two before maximum. However it seems that the un-even loss happens based on angle of light or something else like that.

I will post comparison stills for sharpness if anyone wants to see them. I can also shoot some test flares, and polarizing effect, etc...


FYI:
_ Lots of uneven illumination. Both on the Tokina and at 24mm. It becomes lesser at 70mm.
_ Most uneven weirdness (look ad video below) happens at the very end of the dial close to most light loss.
_ On the Tokina I do get quite a bit of vignetting about 13mm (exact number to come) but that is when stacking it with a UV so it might be lesser with the straight Fader and no UV.
_ The top filter is thin. It makes it hard to dial while shooting. It doesn't seem to be a bad deal breaker just have to get used to it. But with the Tokina it gets hard to dial on the run, since you also need to be very careful not to let your fingers get in your shot.
_ Thanks for the cap! Iit is very cheap, it actually scares a little bit and I am a tad afraid I might scratch the filter when putting it on carelessly. It feels a bit flimsy when clamped on, and I fear it might come off, but... it seems to do the job so far and it was free!
_ There are no hard stops on the filter which really bug me, because once you go past the end there the effect begins to happens again in reverse. You will need to develop a good feel for the peak of the effect if you are playing around there at the top.

Bottom line (so far): Totally worth the $108 I payed, just don't expect a Ferrari.

Un-Even Illumination Video (http://www.zumovalusa.com/DELETE/Fader_ND.MOV)
(7MB ~ 1080 downconverted to 540 ~ ISO800 ~ Canon 24-70mm f/2.8)

Sorry about the quick and dirty test. You'll see what I was doing, but FYI I zoomed from 24mm to 70mm never
in between, always wide open at f/2.8. I set the ISO high for a very overexposed image despite the setting sun.
The clicks are the shutter speed.

I could uploading the original file if you guys want.

http://www.overclock.net/attachments/photography/126585d1256014530-finally-getting-dslr-7d.jpg

Matt Choules
10-27-2009, 01:53 PM
I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to get one of the largest Fader ND into my 4x4 mattebox... I figured I might be able to make a 4x4 holder either out of a light metal or maybe wood then afix either the 77mm or 82mm Fader to that holder.

That would then cover large to small diameter lenses.

Then of course the problem would be varying the Fader ND with any sort of speed.

I just figured it might be nice to have a "do it all" ND filter, rather than carrying around loads.

I'd probably buy another one for my walking around Tamron 17-50mm lens. When I get it.

Matt Choules
10-27-2009, 02:02 PM
Can I ask how far you have to rotate the fader nd to go from minimum to maximum density?
Roughly. In degrees...?

It should be 90, right?

Also, how deep are these adapters? In mm or inches.

USLatin
10-28-2009, 07:20 PM
You can see it on the picture I posted. The setting on the picture is near to "Max" and the last dot on the bottom is the "Min". You line them up with the white dot on the other part of the filter.

BTW for those that were wondering, it DOES in fact work as a POLA. It obviously is two linears stacked together. So when you line them up you lose 1 stop and you can (if you dare to rish your threads) unscrew the whole thing and that way manage to dial in the polarizing angle, you can still use the second one at a different angle if you want to cut down some additional light but it gets tricky to operate if you are not screwed in all the way.

The 77mm is a MAJOR bargain for what it does. It does weird stuff closer to Max but that is to be expected with polarizers I guess.

PaPa
10-28-2009, 07:32 PM
i ordered one as well, but for some reason it saved shipping info to my street address,, but in hong kong.. Tried contacting them to sort this out but have yet to get a reply.

andrew00
10-29-2009, 11:45 AM
I've just ordered a 58mm one and a 58 -> 52 step down ring. Should cover my Nikon 50mm f1.4 (52mm) and also the Canon 50mm f1.4 (58mm) if I ever get that.

The 77mm is out till the 15th Nov. Whilst I'm tempted by the singh ray, it's nearly 4x as expensive and I can wait three weeks for the cost of 250 bucks! I've just ordered the 24-70 f2.8 and that's 77m I believe so that'll be useful there.

This link might be of use btw - http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Plumtree-Photo/Canon-Lens-Chart.html_ - it shows the filter sizes of various lenses, you can check off you lenses and see what you'll need. For what it's worth I don't see any Canon lenses using 82mm, 77mm on the zooms is the biggest. However if vignetting occurs at <20mm-ish then I should be fine on the 24-70, but anyone using any of the wider zooms might have issues.

When ordering w/Paypal I noticed it tried to change my address to HK for some reason but I spotted it and added my real address.

PaPa
10-29-2009, 12:04 PM
emailed me back, that was quite pronto! Should be receiving it within the next 5-7 business days. Will let you guys know!

Ron Rodenmeyer
10-29-2009, 12:06 PM
I use a Fader ND 72-77 on a GH1 and have found it to be absolutely invaluable. I haven't noticed any weird color shifts or other aberrations, but I also haven't shot much w/o it for comparison. Because it flares out (larger outer ring) and is low profile, there is zero vignetting on the GH1 kit lens (14-140mm). I have a rubber hood screwed into the Fader that causes some vignetting at the very wide end of the kit lens . Bonus: the hood provides a good grip for turning the Fader ND.

Osslund
10-29-2009, 01:31 PM
I had a Fader ND for a while and it's hard to do without once you're used to have it. I have two more on order for other lenses so I don't have to unscrew when I change lens in run n gun situations.

andrew00
10-29-2009, 02:12 PM
What I also like is you have more control over exposure moving from one location to another - say from inside to outside. If it's brighter outdoors, you don't have to a) change your shot by lowering lens exposure, b) even if you did change on camera exposure, it wouldn't be a transition but a hard change, c) you don't have that 4 frame freeze thing with changing exposure whilst filming.

With the ND you can just, deftly of course!, slowly turn the wheel to your new exposure for the brighter conditions, keeping all other factors the same, which in my book is pretty awesome!

Kholi
10-31-2009, 04:30 PM
Andrew -- I never thought about that. You bring up a very good point. Normally I'd do this with an Iris Ramp but I haven't declicked my SLR lenses and there aren't any PL's going on my 7D(s) or 5D....

I may very well have to pick up a Fader specifically for transitions like you described.

Nice one, man.

Ron Rodenmeyer
11-02-2009, 06:54 AM
Andrew, that's a good idea. But understand that the Fader cannot be turned all the way off. What I mean is that even at the weakest setting, it does not go to Zero ND. I don't know how low it goes, but it will cut down on your light. So the indoor thing can work, but only if you have a decent amount of light or perhaps a really fast lens.

One other minor weirdness I've had: My Nikon 50mm 1.8 has a focus ring so small and close to the front lens that the step-up ring (for attaching the Fader ND) is jamming against it. So focusing with the Fader ND became nearly impossible. Attaching a simple UV filter to go between the lens and the stepup ring seems to solve the problem. Little things you don't expect.

Takeaway is still that the Fader ND goes everywhere with my camera. I'd hate to shoot without it outdoors.

PaPa
11-02-2009, 07:25 AM
my ND fader just arrived!

finally, can control exposure the way i want.

Question for you all:

Neither my 52mm nikon lens cap, nor my 58mm canon lens cap will fit on this thing? Is there no way to protect the front element when its sitting on my camera?

andrew00
11-02-2009, 08:30 AM
Aye, I had considered that issue, but then again with these DSLR's having such great low light ability, it can't be too hard to compensate for the 1 stop or so you'll lose having the Fader ND at it's lowest setting.

Does the Singh Ray have the same limitation, or does it have a 'zero' setting. I'd imagine both would be the same in this regard.

Ron Rodenmeyer
11-02-2009, 09:06 AM
Andrew, I haven't used the Singh Ray, so I'm not sure. As long as you either light your interior or have ample natural light, you should be fine. Just wanted you to realize there is always some light loss.

PaPa, I'm using the 72/77 Fader, so I just bought a cheapie 77mm cap to cover it. I think it's this one: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/649755-REG/Bower_CS77_77mm_PRO_SNAP_ON_LENS.html

There should be a similar one for your Fader's thread size.

I need to get something to protect the other side though for when it's detached from the cam. It's connected to the lens using a Bower stepup ring, which I usually leave on the fader rather than the camera when I remove it, so I guess I can get a screw on lens or filter cap.

PaPa
11-02-2009, 10:06 AM
yeah, but i own a cheapie 58mm lens cap and it won't go on! guess ill have to contact them back... sigh.

Ron Rodenmeyer
11-02-2009, 11:45 AM
yeah, but i own a cheapie 58mm lens cap and it won't go on! guess ill have to contact them back... sigh.

Which Fader did you get? I'm sure you know the camera end and other end are different diameters, right? You need a lens cap for the outer (larger) element. Does that make sense? I'm prone to not making sense sometimes!

Ron Rodenmeyer
11-02-2009, 11:50 AM
Andrew, according to the Fader ND website http://lightcraftworkshop.com/site/page1000.aspx
it goes from ND2 to ND400. So you should only lose one stop when turned to the minimal position. Of course, I'd take those specs with a small grain of salt.

PaPa
11-02-2009, 12:22 PM
Which Fader did you get? I'm sure you know the camera end and other end are different diameters, right? You need a lens cap for the outer (larger) element. Does that make sense? I'm prone to not making sense sometimes!

ya, no i know that. My Fader ND to lens is 52mm, which matches all of my nikons, and the Fader ND would require a cap of 58mm, which is exactly what i tried, but it looks like fader nd thread is slightly smaller than 58mm which is stopping me from putting a cap on.

Ron Rodenmeyer
11-02-2009, 12:44 PM
Yeah, check with (the amazingly named proprieter) Boniface Leung about that. It seems like any 58mm cap should fit with no problem.

I'm facing the opposite problem... I need something to protect the other end when it's not on the camera. I have a 72/77, so I need something 72mm that has female threads like the outside of a filter. My only thought is to get a filter stack cap and just use the female half. Does anyone have a better (i.e. cheaper) solution?

Osslund
11-02-2009, 12:50 PM
I have my FADER's (yes, more than one) in the original box when not in use.

ydgmdlu
11-02-2009, 07:27 PM
Does the Singh Ray have the same limitation, or does it have a 'zero' setting. I'd imagine both would be the same in this regard.
There will always be light loss because a variable ND filter is made from two polarizers. Polarizers naturally have a slight ND effect.

USLatin
11-02-2009, 10:39 PM
I have my FADER's (yes, more than one) in the original box when not in use.

Me too, what sucks is that the cap won't fit in the box and that means it may accumulate dust. Not a biggie though.

cameron12x
11-04-2009, 08:38 PM
I'm about to purchase a 77mm Fader ND filter which fits these three lenses:

17-40mm F4L
24-105mm F4L
EF-S 10-22mm F3.5

Does anyone have experience with these lenses and this filter? I have a full-frame 1Ds, but most of my shooting will be on the cropped 7D.

I'm curious to know if this filter vignettes with any of these lenses (on FF and 1.6x crop cameras) and, if it does, how much? Thanks!

USLatin
11-05-2009, 12:06 AM
The 77mm fader will start to vignette on a 1.6x at about 13mm

puredrifting
11-05-2009, 10:40 AM
I have the 5D MKII and the 17-40 f4 and the 77mm Fader. I see slight vignetting but only on the camera screen outside of the 16x9 area. So for stills, yes. For video, I am good all of the way to 17mm.

Dan

cameron12x
11-05-2009, 11:14 AM
I have the 5D MKII and the 17-40 f4 and the 77mm Fader. I see slight vignetting but only on the camera screen outside of the 16x9 area. So for stills, yes. For video, I am good all of the way to 17mm.

Dan

Thanks for the quick feedback. That's good news, as I likely will be using it mostly when shooting video.

ozan
11-27-2009, 02:48 PM
"To achieve a cinematic look when shooting in bright daylight at f2.8 at 1/60th or slower, requires a drastic amount of reduction of light that hits the sensor. I used a Singh Ray Variable ND filter. While the filter can reduce the amount of light by 2 to 8 stops, I had serious problems with uneven coverage, so part of my frame would be darker than others. I have tried Fader ND filters, but also have the same problem."

http://www.dslrnewsshooter.com/2009/10/14/photojournalist-danfung-dennis-how-i-cover-the-afghanistan-war-with-the-5dmkii/
(Cracking 5D docu trailer on that link)

Think I'm going to fork out for some proper ND filters after reading that.


I dunnno if this would work to avoid the problem... Would attaching like a .3 or .6 ND in front of the vari ND help prevent using the max setting on the filter?


will help avoid this issue? -> http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/showthread.php?t=26001&page=5



Or will adding a .6 ND or .3 give the same results as setting to max on the vari?



-

adys
11-28-2009, 07:18 AM
I want to get the 62 Fader ND filter from http://www.lightcraftworkshop.com/site/Home.aspx

Some bought from them and can recommend buying from the site, or should I get it (same product same price) from ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fader-ND-filter-62mm-62-ND2-to-ND8-to-ND400-for-HOYA-UV_W0QQitemZ200408369739QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCamera_ Filters?hash=item2ea9450a4b#ht_2002wt_1165

Thanks

Ady.

mhood
11-28-2009, 08:18 AM
I got mine from ebay and it went without a hitch.

adys
11-28-2009, 09:31 AM
thanks

Someone has encounter those problems?

http://www.pbase.com/elroyie/nd_fader

http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/showthread.php?t=26001&page=5

Is this is the behavior of the filter, or is it a bad copy of it?

mhood
11-28-2009, 09:45 AM
Bad copy IMO: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=189689

adys
11-28-2009, 09:58 AM
Bad copy IMO: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=189689

Thanks

The link here http://www.zumovalusa.com/DELETE/Fader_ND.mp4 shows the same problem..

Since many people here bought this filter, I wonder if someone else go into this problem, or I can buy this filter with no worry.

The other solution (low budget) is to buy several ND filters.

puredrifting
11-28-2009, 10:53 AM
User error.

I owned the very expensive Singh Ray Vari ND and the I presently own three of the Fader NDs. If you understood how these filters work, you would understand how to use them.

1. The filters are two polarizers sandwiched together in one filter menchanism. Whether you are using the Singh Ray or the Fader, you can only rotate the filter to a certain point. After that, the effect becomes too much and you begin to see artifacts like the ones in the posts shown above.

2. In one of the above posts, the photgrapher states that he "bought the Fader ND to use specifically on his 10-22mm Canon lens." Any still photographer worth his salt knows that you do not use polas on wide angle lenses and both the Singh Ray and the Fader ND are essentially polarizing filters. Any pola on any wide angle lens will result in uneven polarization effect across a frame. For wide angle lenses, a regular ND or ND grad is a better choice.

Both the Singh Ray and the Fader ND are excellent and work very well when you know what you are doing. If you don't, yes, you will get some funky results as some of the posters above did. You have to use a tool correctly to obtain a desirable result. That holds true for all video/film/photo gear.

Dan

adys
11-28-2009, 12:53 PM
May I ask what is considered to be "wide" for this filter?

is 35 is too wide?

mhood
11-28-2009, 01:14 PM
I tested it with a 50mm and a 28mm and found no strange abberations. I did keep it within the gradient marks on the FaderND though...

http://www.youtube.com/v/PP53g8R9PvU

adys
11-28-2009, 03:39 PM
Thanks

What filter size?
is the 62 is ok on the stock lens or should I take the bigger one?

mhood
11-28-2009, 03:49 PM
My two primes (EF 50mm 1.4 USM and EF 28mm 1.8 USM) both took 58mm so I only got one FaderND in 58mm. None of my lenscaps fit on the FaderND though...

adys
11-28-2009, 04:18 PM
My two primes (EF 50mm 1.4 USM and EF 28mm 1.8 USM) both took 58mm so I only got one FaderND in 58mm. None of my lenscaps fit on the FaderND though...


Thanks

Someone with stock lens can say if the 62 is good or I need to order the 72?

Barry_Green
11-28-2009, 07:21 PM
2. In one of the above posts, the photgrapher states that he "bought the Fader ND to use specifically on his 10-22mm Canon lens." Any still photographer worth his salt knows that you do not use polas on wide angle lenses and both the Singh Ray and the Fader ND are essentially polarizing filters. Any pola on any wide angle lens will result in uneven polarization effect across a frame. For wide angle lenses, a regular ND or ND grad is a better choice.
Listen to Dan, he knows what he's talking about.

Think about how a polarizer works -- it works most effectively at 90 degrees to the sun, right? And at 0 degrees or 180 degrees to the sun, a polarizer doesn't work at all. Well, when you use a super-wide-angle lens (like that 10mm Canon!) you might be seeing a field of view that stretches all the way from barely-working to full strength and all the way back to barely working again!

Read a little more here: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/polarizers.shtml


Both the Singh Ray and the Fader ND are excellent and work very well when you know what you are doing. If you don't, yes, you will get some funky results as some of the posters above did. You have to use a tool correctly to obtain a desirable result. That holds true for all video/film/photo gear.
Somehow this simple truth seems to keep getting lost. You can't take a Fader or Singh-Ray Variable polarizer into every possible shooting scenario, just like you can't take CMOS everywhere, etc. Know what it does, know what it can do, and know what it can't do, and you'll keep yourself out of trouble.

adys
11-29-2009, 09:24 AM
Thank you all for your info.

Can someone please tell if I need to get a wider filter for the stock lens (to avoid vignetting) , or if the 62 filter size will do good?

boo
11-29-2009, 10:08 AM
so what would be the minimum(widest) when using a fader ND? i'm waiting on my tamron 17-50mm 2.8 vc to arrive. thanks.

chris f
11-29-2009, 03:24 PM
so what would be the minimum(widest) when using a fader ND? i'm waiting on my tamron 17-50mm 2.8 vc to arrive. thanks.

Last weekend I tried to use mine with the Canon 10-22mm and had some crazy unevenness when I stopped it way down, but this weekend I used it on my Tamron 28-75 and it was perfect all the way across as far as I could tell.

I'll be interested to hear how well it works around the 17mm end of the Tamron because that may be my next lens.

puredrifting
11-29-2009, 04:12 PM
We have to take into account the 1.6x or 1.5x crop factor in cropped sensor cameras. On a 7D, your 17mm FOV is actually the FF equivalent of 27.2mm FOV. Like everything else in this business, YMMV. You need to test before attempting to use a pola on anything even remotely wide angle. You may or may not find the artifacts in the polarizing to be objectionable.

AFAIK, there is no standard rule on focal length, just that polas don't usually work out very well with true wide angle lenses which in the still photography world begin at around 28mm FF. Generally 35mm focal length lenses are regarded as "normal wide" focal length with FF cameras. With cropped sensor cameras, 35mm focal length is a normal FOV lens.

Dan

chris f
11-30-2009, 11:28 AM
Side note: With my Light Craft Workshop 72mm Fader ND they sent me a 72mm lens cap, but the front threads of the filter is 77mm so it doesn't fit. Vendor error or are you supposed to put the 72mm cap on the back and buy a seperate 77mm cap for the front?

puredrifting
11-30-2009, 05:28 PM
They come in the box with the foam cutout and one lens cap. If you want anything more, you need to furnish it.

Dan

chris f
12-01-2009, 06:23 PM
Update: I contacted Light Craft and they acknowledged the mistake and are shipping the correct sized lens cap for the filter. Very nice to deal with.

Ron Rodenmeyer
12-02-2009, 12:27 PM
Thank you all for your info.

Can someone please tell if I need to get a wider filter for the stock lens (to avoid vignetting) , or if the 62 filter size will do good?

Adys, I'd get the 72/77 just to be safe. It should help to avoid vignetting, plus you can use it on different lenses with larger filter screw sizes. You'll need to get a stepup ring (62 to 72), but those are very inexpensive.

adys
12-15-2009, 01:36 PM
Adys, I'd get the 72/77 just to be safe. It should help to avoid vignetting, plus you can use it on different lenses with larger filter screw sizes. You'll need to get a stepup ring (62 to 72), but those are very inexpensive.

Thanks, but too late now..

Already ordered the 62 after consulting with them.

0100
12-15-2009, 02:15 PM
I am going to be ordering one of these soon, but need some help guys.

1) When they list the fader ND on ebay or the main site "fader ND 72mm" for example is that the thread or front glass size?

2) I am having a hard time deciding 72/77 or 67/72. Any vignetting with a 67/72? Or should I just pay the extra $10 to be safe for the 72/77?

Lenses I will be using on a GH1.

Lumix 14-140
Lumix 20mm
FD 50mm
FD 35mm
FD 28mm
FD 24mm

FD's are 52mm or 55mm and lumix is 62mm thread size.

Thanks!