7D Native File at 60p...

[Craig Tull]

I just uploaded this for a mate so if you guys want to see a native file off the 7D at 60p then download it here...

http://www.sendspace.com/file/zvm8f5

[Craig Tull]

I'm open to requests too so please ask ;)

[seven.b]

Thanks craig! Downloading now.

[mikeshu]

Whew, much more aliasing than I expected. I hope some settings tweaking can reduce that. Can you post some straight up 1080p24 footage?

Thanks so much!

[Perry Wilson]

hey man I posted a link to your full shoot in the footage/stills thread

[mhood]

TYVM! That looks like a very wide lens...which one? And what were your settings please?

[MikeWilkinson]

Thanks for the clip.

[Perry Wilson]

it is the Sigma fisheye
here is the full shoot http://vimeo.com/6823643

[Michael Olsen]

I appreciate it!

[Perry Wilson]

here is some more test footage 1080p 30 Frames http://vimeo.com/6823705

[mhood]

Whew, much more aliasing than I expected.

It seemed to me that the aliasing was most evident in the fringes of a fisheye shot. I wonder if the lens distortion might have contributed to aliasing?

i.e., the top edge of the concret jump didn't show any aliasing at all (to me) until the end when the camera tilts down and places the top edge of the jump in the upper edge of the shot where the fisheye is distorting the most. That is where the aliasing shows up to me. Objects...even hard angled lines...don't show much aliasing when they are in the center of the shot.

[dadoboy]

Craig thanks for putting this up. Nice action shots, but they do reveal the aliasing problems with the 7D. Wide shots, lots of horizontal lines that are not straight/linear, looks like they might mean trouble. I do think the perspective (rather than distortion) of the wide lens contributed to the aliasing.

[Kholi]

720 has much much more aliasing than 1080

[DanDOF]

Please remind me, does the GH1 have the same alias problem?

Also, boy does my 2005 Powermac G5 Dual 1.8GHz NOT run this file smoothly. I conformed to 24p using Cinema Tools and it was a bit easier to play without frame skipping.

This really makes me want to try some native GH1 files at 60p.

For my needs all I want is 60p->24p at 720, and something that I can't edit on my current mac. Anyone advise me to get the lower bitrate GH1 instead?

[Barry_Green]

Please remind me, does the GH1 have the same alias problem?
Nope.

[Sumfun]

What does the GH1 do differently to avoid the aliasing?

[Uwe Lansing]

I just uploaded this for a mate so if you guys want to see a native file off the 7D at 60p then download it here...

http://www.sendspace.com/file/zvm8f5

Thx for sharing Craik. I felt free to do some grading + slomo testing with this native clip. I hope you don´t mind the uploading on yt (otherwise let me know): http://www.youtube.comwatch?v=x2RT4b-JPGQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2RT4b-JPGQ)
Could you please make a short aliasing + moire test? Just put your d7 on a tripod and shoot some architecture - same scene with 1080p24 + 720p60? That would be nice...

[DanDOF]

Thx for sharing Craik. I felt free to do some grading + slomo testing with this native clip. I hope you don´t mind the uploading on yt (otherwise let me know): http://www.youtube.comwatch?v=x2RT4b-JPGQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2RT4b-JPGQ)
Could you please make a short aliasing + moire test? Just put your d7 on a tripod and shoot some architecture - same scene with 1080p24 + 720p60? That would be nice...

That's some fancy grading. How would I do the same, if I wanted to bring the clouds out like you did?

[Barry_Green]

What does the GH1 do differently to avoid the aliasing?
Not sure. But aliasing/moire has been a frequent complaint about the 5D, so it's something I looked at on the GH1 and didn't find it.

[Uwe Lansing]

That's some fancy grading. How would I do the same, if I wanted to bring the clouds out like you did?

That was all done in Photoshop - played around with blend modes, gradient, hsb... etc.


But aliasing/moire has been a frequent complaint about the 5D, so it's something I looked at on the GH1 and didn't find it. Barry, you´re kidding - right? In 1080p24 mode you find a awful lot of aliasing. Sure, in 720p60 much less. Obviously, its just the other way around with the 7D => in 720p60 more than in 1080p24 mode. An old link for those who are interested: http://www.file-upload.net/download-1721382/06_gh1_1080p25_awb.MTS.html

[Barry_Green]

I haven't encountered any, not that I specifically set out to look for it. That file's 1080/25p, is there a difference? Shouldn't be, but... well, if I can ever get my GH1 back from Jack, I'll do some aliasing tests between it and the 7D (assuming, of course, that TigerDirect ever bothers to ship my 7D...)

[Kholi]

This is pretty terrible 720P. If I ever accidentally shoot 720 on this camera I'll slit my bicep open and stick Chile Picante Corn Nuts in the wound... then lift weights for three hours non stop.

[seven.b]

This is pretty terrible 720P. If I ever accidentally shoot 720 on this camera I'll slit my bicep open and stick Chile Picante Corn Nuts in the wound... then lift weights for three hours non stop.

Damn, that sounds rough. So then if what I shoot is skiing and use 720/60p on my HMC about 80% of the time, I'm guessing this isn't the camera for me? Does the HMC's 720/60p look better?

[Kholi]

Absolutely. The 720/60 doesn't make or break the 7D for me, but I won't be using it. I'd rather whip out the heavy-ass RED to shoot Slow Mo.

[Michael Olsen]

Absolutely. The 720/60 doesn't make or break the 7D for me, but I won't be using it. I'd rather whip out the heavy-ass RED to shoot Slow Mo.

Hmm. Too bad about the 720p. Could have been useful. Maybe too much pixel binning...

And I know we aren't really supposed to talk about non-existent products, but the whole concept of 250fps @ 2K really makes me want an Epic-X.

[mhood]

For those of us without a Red in the holster, are you saying the 7D 720/60 is unuseable for slo mo?

[Kholi]

I'm pretty confident in saying that if you have something that depends on slow mo, you must use a different camera. The aliasing is beyond terrible in 720p and slowing it down just gives you more time to look at it.

You MAY be able to get away with it if you've got a lot of shallow shooting going on. How often are those shots slow mo?

And, always remember: regular audience won't notice or care if what's in front of the camera is good enough. So if that helps...

[mhood]

How good is the antialiasing filter in CS4.1?

[Barry_Green]

Kholi, is the "beyond terrible" comment based on your experience with the 7D, or looking at others' footage?

[seven.b]

Thanks Kholi. I was going to order this camera in the next day or two, but I think I will give it a few days to see what comes of this.

[Kholi]

Kholi, is the "beyond terrible" comment based on your experience with the 7D, or looking at others' footage?


It's based on at least the camera I have. Maybe I have a defective production model?

I shot around with some 720/60 yesterday before we got to location...and oh boy. It's quite nasty. LoL. It feels strange to say that it's not a 720 camera. Does anyone really care if it's not a 720 camera?

The 1080/24 is McSick.

[Kholi]

Thanks Kholi. I was going to order this camera in the next day or two, but I think I will give it a few days to see what comes of this.


If you're using 720/60 a lot or plan on it, defintiely wait until more footage pops up to make a decision. Maybe I had high expectations, even the GH-1's 720 was serious business... but this...

It's not a let down, though. The 1080/24 is still super nice.

[KeithAndrews.TV]

Let's just say that I did not notice the aliasing all that much in the video footage provided at first, so I think there is a little too much "hunting" going on for this sort of thing. After opening the clip in QT and slowly scrubing through the footage, I was able to notice a very slight, soft, aliasing on the metal piping at the top of the ramps, but nothing I would say is objectionable, or unuseable.

I was more interested in the cameras ability in regard to detail, latitude and color reproduction than anything. Plus, it was a lot steadier than I thought it would be so props to the OP and props to the lens. I will definitely use the 720p 60 from the 7D in combination with my HMC150 whenever I need two cams shooting 60 fps.

[Kholi]

If you're shooting shallow it wouldn't be too terrible. But Wide and anything with heavy patterns, lots of curves, etc, is going to show it and show it quickly.

Choose well!

[Nitsuj]

Wow that is a lot of jaggies. Gotta say much more than I expected from all the talk. I gotta say my first impression with the video was "this screams video". Not sure if it was just the combination of all the jaggies mixed with the 60p but the colors seemed that way to my eye as well. I'm curious what the 1080p looks like now.

[Kholi]

I'm curious what the 1080p looks like now.

Much cleaner than anything you've seen online so far from the 7d, that's for sure.

Side by side with MKii, focal lengths matched, DOF matched, it's nearly indistinguishable. Only aliasing on 7D is slight more tamed. I'll let the real testers prove either way, but the 1080/24 is pretty satisfying.

[Eddy Robinson]

I thought it looked video-ish, but that was more from the sky and colors than anything else (not that any claims were made for it looking filmic to start with). The aliasing didn't reall bug me, although anytime I paused the video it was easy to see.

[plasmasmp]

I'm working on filming other stuffs with my 7D, but I did shoot a little test today with the optimized settings. I think it looks good if you turn off the sharpness. Certiainly more detail than most of the other dslrs at 720.

FoppQlryUxY&fmt=22

[Jean Dantes]

Is the aliasing just as bad in 50P ?

[ryansheffer]

I shot focus charts with 5d and 7d both at 29.97 today. The aliasing was identical. I will shot with other framerates.

Also - shot color charts with same settings. 5d and 7d side by side (like Kholi said) are indistinguishable for the most part.

Only difference I've seen is that the 5d is better at handling underexposed areas.

[Sttratos]

Let's just say that I did not notice the aliasing all that much in the video footage provided at first, so I think there is a little too much "hunting" going on for this sort of thing.

Exactly! I was too busy looking at that cool jump to notice any minor artifacts and if I didn't know this was a test for a new camera I would have never noticed probably. Really, I love to hang around camera forums but sometimes people just cracks me up with all the nitpicking and hair splitting. I think if all the energy put on looking for imperfections in camera images was put into writing good scripts and actually making good movies, camera forums would be cranking some serious material that would put Hollywood to shame even without the budget.



Surely not beyond terrible. Beyond terrible would be if I was seeing 3 jumpers, with scanning lines going up all over the image.

[Craig Tull]

Exactly! I was too busy looking at that cool jump to notice any minor artifacts and if I didn't know this was a test for a new camera I would have never noticed probably. Really, I love to hang around camera forums but sometimes people just cracks me up with all the nitpicking and hair splitting. I think if all the energy put on looking for imperfections in camera images was put into writing good scripts and actually making good movies, camera forums would be cranking some serious material that would put Hollywood to shame even without the budget.



Surely not beyond terrible. Beyond terrible would be if I was seeing 3 jumpers, with scanning lines going up all over the image.

This is the truth!

[mhood]

all the nitpicking and hair splitting.

I don't agree. Gr8 scripts deserve gr8 cameras (also the right tool for the job). Nitpicking and hair splitting is how the characteristics of the tools are defined beyond the level of any viewer. There's more to art than art you know...

[Kholi]

I don't agree. Gr8 scripts deserve gr8 cameras (also the right tool for the job). Nitpicking and hair splitting is how the characteristics of the tools are defined beyond the level of any viewer. There's more to art than art you know...

Surely nitpicking is what got us where we are now. Nitpicking made Canon give up the Manual Controls on the 5D. And now we have 24, 25 AND 30p in the 7D.

So yeah, necessary evil.

[HHL]

This is pretty terrible 720P. If I ever accidentally shoot 720 on this camera I'll slit my bicep open and stick Chile Picante Corn Nuts in the wound... then lift weights for three hours non stop.


That is so freaking funny Kholi! I would continue to read this forum even if I weren't into making movies. For entertainment purposes only!

I will say it is a little scary to see aliasing problems on this camera. Aliasing is NOT an easy problem to work around. It makes me glad that I didn't order yet. I was one of the people on the first D90 wave. I want to thank Kholi and a bunch of others for being such die hards and jumping at every legit new camera and testing for the rest of us. You guys rock! (And you're sooooooo freakin funny!)