H4n or Rode video mic

[J. Odoms]

So I'm just building my production rig, and have almost completed my setup but I'm lacking in the audio dept.

My delima is that I'm somewhat broke now that I've purchased so much gear and haven't had any method for capturing audio.

My question is should I just go ahead and buy the rode video for now, and when I'm closer to an actual production add the H4n recorder later, as it is the more exspensive of the two components.

Or

Should I buy the H4n and use it as my mic system now, and add the Rode later.

I know the h4n isn't a mic per se but it has produced great sound recordings from the looks of other posts.

Help me with the decision please.

[Perry Wilson]

I love my H4n and I just got it the two mics on the front pick up amazing sound

[mcgeedigital]

I know the h4n isn't a mic per se but it has produced great sound recordings from the looks of other posts.



The H4N has EXCELLENT stereo mic set up.

I would get that over the videomic ANY day.

[PaPa]

Is there a way to stick the H4n directly on the camera's shoe mount?

[Michael Olsen]

This was used in the recent Beijing video by Dan Chung. He recorded with the H4n, using a special audio cable to input straight to the camera. He just lived with AGC.

http://www.dslrnewsshooter.com/2009/09/26/pinknoise-systems-5dmkii-and-7d-audio-cable/

http://www.dslrnewsshooter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/7d-audio-cable1.jpg

[PaPa]

I guess the H4n doesn't disable the auto gain... Poo.

Wonder when a type of magic lantern firmware is going to be developed for the 7d

[Cassius]

I'd start with the H4n, since anything running straight into the camera is going to deal with auto gain. The sound quality will probably be a lot lower, but worth it. Also look into borrowing or renting microphones from others.

[mhood]

Another thing to consider is the lack of an earphone plug on the camera. You can not monitor the audio "off the record head".

[powervideo]

But isn't syncing up audio in post an absolute PITA? If you shot say two or three hundred clips on a corporate video, post-syncing would be very difficult. At the very least you would have to use a clapper board and ID every shot.

Peter

[xbourque]

But isn't syncing up audio in post an absolute PITA? If you shot say two or three hundred clips on a corporate video, post-syncing would be very difficult. At the very least you would have to use a clapper board and ID every shot.

Peter

http://philipbloom.co.uk/tutorials/canon-5dmkii-tutorials/part-2-syncing-audio-and-video-with-fcp-and-plurayeyes/

[dandobi.com]

But isn't syncing up audio in post an absolute PITA? If you shot say two or three hundred clips on a corporate video, post-syncing would be very difficult. At the very least you would have to use a clapper board and ID every shot.

Peter

slate slate slate and you'll be fine fine fine

[ryansheffer]

second vote for pluraleyes. It's perfect. The hundreds if not thousands of hours it would have saved me boggles my mind.

If you don't have a slate, stand in front of the camera, say the slate out loud and clap your hands. Absolutely works great.

[J. Odoms]

yeah from what I see pluraleyes is the best solution for mulitple audio syncs. It takes the audio from the camera and matches that with the audio from the external recording device. Genius

It sounds as if the general concensus is to go with the H4n, which was where I was headed, its just that I wish I knew where to get that cable that was used during "Another Night in Beijing".

[mhood]

yeah from what I see pluraleyes is the best solution for mulitple audio syncs.

So where is Pluraleyes for Windows? I'm using CS4.1 and I can't find anything like Pluraleyes.

[J Davis]

You don't need to sync every shot. You only sync the shots that make the final cut.

[powervideo]

Yeah I can see the benefit. Somebody recommended the Manfrotto 482 ball joint hot shoe adaptor for the Zoom. Amazon have them for just $36.90 with free shipping. which is by far the cheapest I could find on the net. The ball allows you to angle the Zoom for better viewing. I just ordered one.

[mhood]

Here's my Edirol HR9 mounted to the shoe on my Nikon D90 with the Manfrotto...I like it a lot...

[Michael Olsen]

There's also the Zound Hotshoe from Zacuto. $193.
http://store.zacuto.com/Zound-Hotshoe.html

[ryansheffer]

No matter how high quality Zacuto's products are, do not spend that much money on the way you mount a small recorder.

I can't find the exact one I bought but here is something similar.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/383489-REG/Tote_Vision_HS_1_HS_1_Hot_Shoe_Mount.html

That would work fine.

[boo]

agree w/ ryan. ridiculous spending that amount just for a hotshoe....

[danjchoi]

Noob question: would something like the Juicedlink CX231 be able to 'bypass' the audio gain (ie. provide enough juice so that the camera doesn't have to crank up the gain)?

[Michael_Richard]

not without ML firmware

[J. Odoms]

There's also the Zound Hotshoe from Zacuto. $193.
http://store.zacuto.com/Zound-Hotshoe.html


There is seriously NO REASON Zacuto needs to charge $200 for a hot shoe mount.

This is whats frustrating to me regarding their pricing structure, they make decent quality products, which I will admit. They are very well machined, and hold up well, regarding their baseplates, and the Z-finder and charge somewhat debateably exorbitant pricing on their items. But this price gouging, regarding their accessories, such as articulating arms, hot shoe mounts, and quick release locks is unforgivable. I don't care if it has a lifetime warranty, I couldn't believe that you (Zacuto) is paying nearly 80% of those prices for manufacturing. I honestly doubt if that hot shoe mount would have cost them more than $40 to manufacture. I would love to see some of their manufacturing cost, because that is outrageous.

[galbach]

[quote=J. Odoms;1758793]There is seriously NO REASON Zacuto needs to charge $200 for a hot shoe mount.


It is so nice especially with the wine red head LOL.. ..I got mime free from Steve Weiss.. Thanks Steve!!! because they forgot to send me my zacuto eyepiece when he said they would... I cant imagine anyone would pay that for that mount...

[mhood]

Sadly, the hot shoe mount makes folks doubt the validity of the entire Zacuto pricing structure. I'm reminded of Gucci handbags...

[Michael Olsen]

There is seriously NO REASON Zacuto needs to charge $200 for a hot shoe mount.


It is so nice especially with the wine red head LOL.. ..I got mime free from Steve Weiss.. Thanks Steve!!! because they forgot to send me my zacuto eyepiece when he said they would... I cant imagine anyone would pay that for that mount...

Ha! I just saw those RedHeads today. Definitely buying the wine one as well. Is there a club I can join?

[mhood]

Is there a club I can join?

Do you party with Paris Hilton?

[Michael Olsen]

Do you party with Paris Hilton?

I should think not. :huh:

[J Davis]

Sadly, the hot shoe mount makes folks doubt the validity of the entire Zacuto pricing structure. I'm reminded of Gucci handbags...

Ahhh the old zacuto hot shoe mount?
I called them about that once ... does nothing for any setup because of handling noise.
If there was a shockmount built into it then it would be worth $200.
Right now you can do exactly the same with ...

$22.95 Rycote Hot Shoe Adapter LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/407099-REG/Rycote_037302_037302_Hot_Shoe_3_8_.html)
$5.95 Bogen Female 3/8 to Male 1/4 LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546532-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_015_015_Female_3_8_to.h tml)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/407099.jpg http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/546532.jpg

and you still get the same handling noise

[galbach]

Come on guys didnt you see Zacuto headquarters.... They need the money for that sweet office setup and production ... http://www.vimeo.com/6551454..

[dcoughla]

Come on guys didnt you see Zacuto headquarters.... They need the money for that sweet office setup and production ... http://www.vimeo.com/6551454..

When I saw that video a few weeks ago I immediately made a vow to never purchase a Zacuto product unless there really is no alternative. Not to take away from what they've done as a company because they're clearly thriving in a capitalist market, but I personally don't like being gouged and it really looks like that's what they're doing to me.

[Luis Caffesse]

Let's keep this on topic guys - "H4n or Rode video mic "

Thanks.

[Perry Wilson]

lol this thread sure did stray

[dcoughla]

lol this thread sure did stray

Oops! I got so fired up I forgot my response to the original post. Sorry for contributing to the diversion :)

I'd get the H4n now if you can afford it and are planning on getting it anyway - it'll give you time to get used to working with it before you start an actual production.

You may also find the H4n meets your needs for the time being which will allow you to invest in something other than the Rode later down the line.

[ryansheffer]

I've bought two H4Ns from this company.

One for me and one for a production company I work with.

Good experiences both times.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Zoom-H4n-H4-n-Recorder-4-Track-Mobile-HEADPHONES-REMOTE_W0QQitemZ370265026018QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item563583ede2&_trksid=p4999.c0.m14

[dcoughla]

I've bought two H4Ns from this company.

One for me and one for a production company I work with.

Good experiences both times.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Zoom-H4n-H4-n-Recorder-4-Track-Mobile-HEADPHONES-REMOTE_W0QQitemZ370265026018QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item563583ede2&_trksid=p4999.c0.m14

x3 - got my H4n from this same company with 0 hassle. Came bundled with a remote, SD card and mini-tripod and all work well.

[alexandroff]

i got h4n
and this is the mount for dslrs i use:
not selling these, just sharing the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330349087369

[jonE5]

does anyone plug the rode into the h4n?

[haircut]

That may be the most ridiculously and irrationally overpriced item in Zacuto's catalog.

[evsonline]

We have just received first shipment of the Beachtek DXA-5DA

http://www.evsonline.com/beachtek-dxa-5da-dslr-cameras-passive-dual-xlr-mic-adapter.html

Beachtek DXA-5DA DSLR Cameras Passive Dual XLR Mic Adapter



Attaches to DSLR Cameras
Dual XLR Inputs
Noise Free Audio





http://www.evsonline.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/d/x/dxa5da_angle.jpg

[jonE5]

wow, that beach thing is just as expensive as an H4n, does it even record?

[Jeffyr]

I use Plural Eyes to sync audio in FCP without any problem.
If you do add a mic to your rig with the Zoom please check out my solution to mounting multiple accessories to your DSLR. The J-Cube allows you to mount a mic, wireless receiver, and audio recorder together-actually you can mount any 3 accessories with shoe mounts to The J-Cube. I also have Pro Shoe 1/4-20 to shoe adapters available.

http://web.me.com/jeffyr/embeded_banner/Banner_Ads_files/J-CubeB.jpg

http://web.me.com/jeffyr/embeded_banner/Banner_Ads_files/T_X8Q1537.jpg

[Jon Chema]

So I'm just building my production rig, and have almost completed my setup but I'm lacking in the audio dept.

My delima is that I'm somewhat broke now that I've purchased so much gear and haven't had any method for capturing audio.

My question is should I just go ahead and buy the rode video for now, and when I'm closer to an actual production add the H4n recorder later, as it is the more exspensive of the two components.

Or

Should I buy the H4n and use it as my mic system now, and add the Rode later.

I know the h4n isn't a mic per se but it has produced great sound recordings from the looks of other posts.

Help me with the decision please.

Here is the best solution I could come up with...buy the Zoom. For the money its great! Use the onboard stereo mics and mount the whole thing to the 7d hotshoe as pictured previously. Buy a male to male stereo miniplug cable and run from the headphone out of the zoom to the input on the 7d. Just make sure you watch your "headphone volume" as it'll distort if its too hot. THEN, once you have both your video and audio file look into a plugin for FCP called "pluraleyes" It will automatically sync your audio file from the zoom with the video file of the 7d. Since you sent the headphone feed into the 7d it'll serve as great reference audio but pluraeyes will sync up the zoom audio and then you can later delete it. PRESTO! Instantly better audio WITHOUT audio gain control screwing things up!

Just my two cents...Philip Bloom recommends this method as well.

[Jon Chema]

I use Plural Eyes to sync audio in FCP without any problem.
If you do add a mic to your rig with the Zoom please check out my solution to mounting multiple accessories to your DSLR. The J-Cube allows you to mount a mic, wireless receiver, and audio recorder together-actually you can mount any 3 accessories with shoe mounts to The J-Cube. I also have Pro Shoe 1/4-20 to shoe adapters available.

http://web.me.com/jeffyr/embeded_banner/Banner_Ads_files/J-CubeB.jpg

http://web.me.com/jeffyr/embeded_banner/Banner_Ads_files/T_X8Q1537.jpg

How doe this hold up as far as durability. I'm scared to put too much onto the camera's hot shoe in fear that it'll break the thing off!! :undecided

[Bobonli]

I wouldn't load too much stuff onto the camera's hotshoe. It simply wasn't designed to hold a shotgun mic and recorder or a monitor. It was designed to hold a 10 ounce flash!

I have my Zoom attached to a Nasty Clamp ( http://www.nastyclamps.com/index.php) and I clamp it to the legs of my tripod or whatever else is around.

I may be in the minority on this, but I see no need for the Rode mic. I'm getting good enough reference audio from the 7D to sync with the Zoom using Pluraleyes. I've been as far away from the camera as 20 feet and the quality is sufficient to sync with the double system sound.

[Jeffyr]

I wouldn't load too much stuff onto the camera's hotshoe. It simply wasn't designed to hold a shotgun mic and recorder or a monitor. It was designed to hold a 10 ounce flash!

I have my Zoom attached to a Nasty Clamp ( http://www.nastyclamps.com/index.php) and I clamp it to the legs of my tripod or whatever else is around.

I may be in the minority on this, but I see no need for the Rode mic. I'm getting good enough reference audio from the 7D to sync with the Zoom using Pluraleyes. I've been as far away from the camera as 20 feet and the quality is sufficient to sync with the double system sound.

I am not sure which strobe you have at 10 oz, but the Canon 580 EX I have used for years is 19 0z with batteries. Add a diffuser and the weight will top 20 oz. The J-Cube is 4 oz, and with the audio recorder and mic is well under 16 oz., less than a strobe.

[lpowell]

I'm an audio engineer and I have both the Zoom H4N and the Rode VideoMic. Rode has a fine reputation and their mics sound great, but the VideoMic's plastic construction is fragile. The shock mount is bulky and I've had several of the tiny rubber bands break from normal use. The plastic hot shoe broke off very easily and I had to replace it with a metal adapter.

The H4N is the most useful portable audio recorder I have ever worked with. It records flawless 4-channel 44.1/48k PCM or MP3 into SD cards, with built-in ear & eye monitoring, phantom-power XLR inputs, and steerable stereo mics. Its only significant drawbacks are its weight and battery limitations. Multiple sets of rechargeable batteries are a must for using it in the field. I would not recommend mounting it directly on a DSLR hotshoe - get a rack to elevate it higher and angle it down toward the subject. Add an a shotgun mic of an appropriate length (and preferably a boom operator to go with it) and you should be able to record professional quality audio.

[evsonline]

The windjammer is a must for wind noise on the H4n.. Take a look at it.

http://www.evsonline.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=h4n&x=0&y=0

[boulder]

I'm an audio engineer and I have both the Zoom H4N and the Rode VideoMic. Rode has a fine reputation and their mics sound great, but the VideoMic's plastic construction is fragile. The shock mount is bulky and I've had several of the tiny rubber bands break from normal use. The plastic hot shoe broke off very easily and I had to replace it with a metal adapter.

The H4N is the most useful portable audio recorder I have ever worked with. It records flawless 4-channel 44.1/48k PCM or MP3 into SD cards, with built-in ear & eye monitoring, phantom-power XLR inputs, and steerable stereo mics. Its only significant drawbacks are its weight and battery limitations. Multiple sets of rechargeable batteries are a must for using it in the field. I would not recommend mounting it directly on a DSLR hotshoe - get a rack to elevate it higher and angle it down toward the subject. Add an a shotgun mic of an appropriate length (and preferably a boom operator to go with it) and you should be able to record professional quality audio.

I took the silicone holders off my VideoMic and replaced them with orthopedic rubber bands (two on each peg). I found that the silicone rubber they used tended to make noise as it rubbed against the plastic. The rubber bands are much quieter and I got 100 for something like $2.50 so if they break I just would put on another. None have broken so far.

As far as the hot shoe breaking off and your rubber bands snapping I would say you seem to be quite rough with your equipment :)