Hoodman HoodLoupe VS Zacuto Z-Finder

[Jean Dantes]

Anyone considered the Hoodman HoodLoupe as opposed to the Zacuto Z-Finder? As much as I'd love Zacuto gear, it is all highly priced. Just thought I'd give you guys a heads-up on the HoodLoupe (and no, I don't work for Hoodman lol). The "Cinema Kit" looks like a good deal for people on a tight budget (i.e. Me) ;)

http://www.hoodmanusa.com/products.asp?dept=1017

http://www.hoodmanusa.com/prodinfo.asp?number=H%2DLCKIT

[tony240sx]

Looks like a good option. I would like to hear if anyone has experience with this.

[Vascilli]

The larger eyecup is awfully nice, but I'd like it to be even bigger.

[Boz]

Another option if it ever becomes available...

http://www.lcdvf.com/

[Kegan]

Hopefully soon - I'll shoot Tonis an email tomorrow and see if he has any updates for me.

Kegan

[david_p]

i had been using the Hoodloupe since i got my 5DmkII quite a long time ago. its pretty good at best. i where glasses so with the Hoodoupe i had to take them off when using it. drag! forgot my glasses a few times and had to search for them.

i recently got the Zfinder (new version). its not even a contest between the two IMO. there is no magnification on the hoodloupe where the Zfinder has 3x magnification. although you do sense the lack of resolution of the LCD more with the Zfinder...its not much of a problem and it makes the image huge and...*intimate*. all the little things that you might want to focus on...very big! the smaller things with the hoodloupe would be much harder to nail vs the Zacuto.

Zfinder is like sitting in the first row of a theatre. works great with glasses too.

i like it and yes it was expensive but still worth every penny. i do happen to be one of those people that thinks Zacuto stuff in general is waaaaaaay overpriced. this paticular item kicks ass though and is worth it. if you got the bucks and accurate and precise focus is ***paramount***...get the Zfinder...end of story.

if you go for the hoodman though (great deal for the money), forget the silly straps they supply. here is a good tip i got from a DP named Norman Bonney with a much better way of attaching the hoodloupe than the silly straps.
http://www.normanbonney.com/hoodloupe..html

i didnt use the cushy floppy thing he had in the pics but i did the surgery on the rest of the hoodloupe and it worked like a champ. the cool thing is that you can easily pull it off for viewing between shots. the velcro does a solid job of keeping it intact.

david
www.davidprobst.com

[iniosante]

Its not that the Hoodman is bad, its just that the Z-finder is so much better.

David P hit the nail on the head... to really appreciate Zacuto gear one has to use it. The Z-finder works miracles on getting focus and assists in stabilization by giving another point of contact. Nothing else, at the moment, comes close in terms of quality and performance to frame a shot on an HDSLR. If you are used to shooting on PRO or ENG cameras (and not on an lcd screen) then this is the MUST HAVE for the 5D / 7D. Plus Steve gives great customer service- I had a question about the Z-finder a month ago and he personally answered my email within an hour- that is how you do repeat business. Quit the debate. Get the Z-Finder.

Ash
www.iniosante.com

[powervideo]

Z-finders are now on back-order at Zacuto until mid-October. Guess all the new 7D owners are rushing the wire. I ordered and confirmed mine last week. :)

[ProAmateur]

Z-finders are now on back-order at Zacuto until mid-October. Guess all the new 7D owners are rushing the wire. I ordered and confirmed mine last week. :)

Yea me too...I think we might have been the last few to get in before the back-order. Mine has shipped and is in FedEx transit somewhere between here and ORD.

Regards,

G.

[Boz]

Z-finders are badass, no doubt. But they could be chocolate dipped in gold; if I can't afford it, I can't afford it. $400 is ridiculous for a loupe. So, probably Hoodman for me unless the LCDVF comes out soon.

[Perry Wilson]

mine will be here tomorrow... yay... yeah the customer service from Zacuto is great I actually called the office and had a chat with one of the girls from the bloom invasion video... and she bumped me in the back order list... lol

[Jean Dantes]

Quit the debate. Get the Z-Finder.

Unfortunately, not all us can afford the Z-Finder...

[powervideo]

Unfortunately, not all us can afford the Z-Finder...


It is expensive but I'm moving over from broadcast DVCPRO50 and 2/3" HD gear so in relative terms it's nowhere near the nose-bleed prices I've been paying. A HD viewfinder (B&W at that) costs over US$3,500. To a large extent you get what you pay for.

[Lucian]

To a large extent you get what you pay for.

If this holds true, the 7d is gonna disappoint a lot of people. Never has a bar been set so high for a $1700 camera not even designed for video.

[powervideo]

If this holds true, the 7d is gonna disappoint a lot of people. Never has a bar been set so high for a $1700 camera not even designed for video.

But this is exactly what I mean. You do get what you pay for with the 7D. You get great DOF, low-light capability, the "look", access to great relatively inexpensive lenses, etc, etc.

You lose video camera-specific functionality, video without aliasing, simple audio connectivity, ergonomics, etc etc.

I don't expect to stop shooting commercials on XDCAM HD or Varicam, but I will shoot a lot of stuff on the 7D that suits the specific project, and I think I'll get exactly what I've paid for.

[squig]

I've been shooting all weekend with the z-finder and I couldn't live without it. I tried a couple of external LCD's and LCD glasses but nothing comes close to the z-finder. It's way overpriced for what it is and the LCDVF sounds good for less than half the money but it isn't focusable and I don't have perfect eyesight so the z-finder was the only option for me.

[Rakesh Jacob]

I just watched the Hoodman video: Cinema Strap? Ok... Hair ties, rubber bands and those things that fasten the strings on my swimming trunks... CINEMA STRAP!!!!!
Not knocking it cause it works and it's cheap, but I shouldn't have been drinking water while watching that video is all I'm saying LOL *choke/gag/cough/WTF/cough/wheeze*

[squig]

I bought the extra elastic straps for the z-finder but I haven't bothered to use them, the only time the z-finder came off was when a DJ stepped on it.....gotta love that lifetime warranty. I've clipped the z-finder to the MKII neck strap so it doesn't disappear.

[Nicolas Christakis]

On
http://store.zacuto.com/Z-Finder.html
Zacuto says "Z-Finder will work on the Canon 7D".
So I guess we just have to trust them. I'm pretty sure if they write that on their website, it has to work.

[USLatin]

Has anyone actually called Zacuto and asked if they know the frames will work with the 7D? If would be f'in hilarious if we were all left with the frame in our hand, scratching our heads with the other. :)


although you do sense the lack of resolution of the LCD more with the Zfinder...its not much of a problem

I know you said it wasn't much of a problem but if you can see the pixels it can be horribly distracting. So, would you say a tad less magnification would have been better? The LCDVF will have a little less magnification.

[Nicolas Christakis]

My post was actually the answer to yours..
Zacuto says it works on a 7D.

[USLatin]

Very cool. That is more than enough for me to feel safe.

[Michael Olsen]

Yep, Zacuto has confirmed it, plus just about everyone who has shot with the 7D up to this point (Bloom, Magbauna et al, Chung) has used it. It definitely works.

[USLatin]

Yep, Zacuto has confirmed it, plus just about everyone who has shot with the 7D up to this point (Bloom, Magbauna et al, Chung) has used it. It definitely works.

lol... I must really need to sleep more, well, who cares, the answer is yes and that's what matters :grin:

Has anyone fitted it with an eye cup better suited for cold weather? It can be replaced right?

[Michael Olsen]

Has anyone fitted it with an eye cup better suited for cold weather? It can be replaced right?

Eyecup can be replaced. If by "better suites" you mean anti-fog, Zacuto has a kit they sell for it. http://store.zacuto.com/Clarity-Fog-Eliminator-3-Pack.html Just a pack of wipes with magical anti-fog power that you wipe on the element.

[mico]

I've been shooting all weekend with the z-finder and I couldn't live without it. I tried a couple of external LCD's and LCD glasses but nothing comes close to the z-finder. It's way overpriced for what it is and the LCDVF sounds good for less than half the money but it isn't focusable and I don't have perfect eyesight so the z-finder was the only option for me.

I read a post on cinema5d of someone trying to make their own cheaper version of the z finder by taking a regular schneider loupe from B&H and rigging it to work with the 5d.
When he got it working it cost almost $300. That post convinced me that the z finder is not over priced.

[boulder]

I think I read that the Sockloupe is said to be better than the Hoodman, at least according to Philip Bloom (I think), can't remember where I read that though

[manglerBMX]

the sockloupe isn't a solid built housing like the z-finder or the hoodloupe, so its not possible to use as a point of contact. its internal housing is a couple of metal rods.

[mcgeedigital]

The sockloupe left a a lot to be desired, IMO.

I love the Z-finder.

[Rakesh Jacob]

its internal housing is a couple of metal rods.
WOW! So if the fabric fails in a trip and fall accident... METAL RODS... IN MY EYES!
Yeah I'm thinkin the Zacuto is the only legit game, how ever overpriced, lets hope some one will compete and swing the prices a little in our favor.

[Stephen Mick]

Okay, not to rain on anyone's parade here, but the Zacuto Z-Finder is not "overpriced." It's a professional tool built to perform in any conditions.

It may be too expensive for some, but that doesn't make it "overpriced."

[mhood]

Well....I did see almost $200 for their hot shoe mount... ;-)

[mico]

here read pure driftings post.
http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2220

[Jean Dantes]

Definitely overpriced for a young student indie filmmaker...

[Rakesh Jacob]

Well....I did see almost $200 for their hot shoe mount... ;-)

That's gotta be one F-ing professional hot shoe mount!

[boo]

That's gotta be one F-ing professional hot shoe mount!

c'mon now! w/ the zacuto name, you let others know you're a baller! just like driving a bently... =P

[f64manray]

WOW! So if the fabric fails in a trip and fall accident... METAL RODS... IN MY EYES!
.

Eye not eyes. You'll likely only lose one eye. Stop being a p---y. :-)

[Rakesh Jacob]

c'mon now! w/ the zacuto name, you let others know you're a baller! just like driving a bently... =P
:grin::thumbup:
*Robin Leech voice* "When your shoulder mount costs more than what your PA drove up in, THAT'S BALLIN!"


Eye not eyes. You'll likely only lose one eye. Stop being a p---y. :-)
LOL umm... I was reffering to my...uhhh...3D setup, yeah that's it 3D

[mcgeedigital]

Definitely overpriced for a young student indie filmmaker...

Then don't use it.

When you start making money with your DSLR, you'll find that it is worth every penny to maintain critical focus when it matters.

[xbourque]

Okay, not to rain on anyone's parade here, but the Zacuto Z-Finder is not "overpriced." It's a professional tool built to perform in any conditions.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but it IS overpriced.

Since it's almost the only game in town, then sure, if you need it, you'll pay for it.

But selling a close-up lens, a plastic tube, an eyecup and a few fittings for the same price as a brand new 50mm f1.4 AF lens is ridiculous.

-X

[Jean Dantes]

Sorry to rain on your parade, but it IS overpriced.

Since it's almost the only game in town, then sure, if you need it, you'll pay for it.

But selling a close-up lens, a plastic tube, an eyecup and a few fittings for the same price as a brand new 50mm f1.4 AF lens is ridiculous.

-X

Sad but true. Couldn't have said it better mate. I'm sure Zacuto products are great and all, but there definitely is a monopoly factor at play here. A lot of the companies in the indie film market (Redrock, Zacuto et al) are definitely not for the "lower-class" indie filmmaker...I'm talking about that kid that flipped burgers and stacked shelves all summer to buy that new 50mm f1.4 prime lens...

[david_p]

Has anyone actually called Zacuto and asked if they know the frames will work with the 7D? If would be f'in hilarious if we were all left with the frame in our hand, scratching our heads with the other. :)



I know you said it wasn't much of a problem but if you can see the pixels it can be horribly distracting. So, would you say a tad less magnification would have been better? The LCDVF will have a little less magnification.

its not horrible at all. i'll elaborate on what i wrote in a previous post...

first with the Zfinder...you are *NOT* staring at pixels, so dont worry.

on the hoodloupe i can feel that there "could" be more resolution on the LCD to some degree. the fact that the Zfinder is 3X just exaggerates that feeling a little bit more but doesnt leave me feeling i want less x or want to get away from it in the least.

with the Zfinder the degree of "closeness and intimacy" with the scene is dramatic. you feel like "your in the scene...like the front row of a theatre". i like that not only from a functional aspect but from an emotional and sensory aspect.

lets say your shooting a scene with one actor and she is filling up the frame. with the hoodman...no problem. you can focus the shot just great and you can still observe and judge their performance because she has dominated your 3" lcd.

now let say you have 5 people in the scene. with the hoodloupe you wont feel anyway near connected with their performances and their nuances as you would the Zfinder. they are much smaller sharing that 3" space. the Z's 3x keeps you up close and personal. so i see it not only as a great focusing aid but equally an "emotional connector". maybe some people wont give a hoot about what im describing but when i first put the Z on...this hit me like a ton of bricks and in a good way. i wasnt expecting this in the least...i was just thinking...i hope i can grab focus better than the hoodloupe and i just spent $400.

the Zfinder's 3x as it relates to resoluion only? im not distracted by the amplification of the LCD but i did observe that the LCD is less than perfect (but still acceptable...to get it done). there is nothing we can do about that and i accept it for what it is. the mild lack of resolution is there no matter with the hoodloupe or the Zfinder.

Zfinder is like getting 10" away from somebodies face vs 3 feet away. at 10" you observe the pores, littles hairs etc. it just makes the smaller things easier to grab focus on than using the hoodloupe simply because...you can see them.

the hoodloupe can still get it done, is adequate and inexpensive. im not preaching to anyone that the Zfinder is the only way to get it done. the Zfinder *is* better to me but that doesnt make the Hoodloupe not work.

a car can get you from point A to B. the hoodloupe is a car without AC and a nice stereo. Zfinder has what the hoodloupe is missing and just makes the ride much more pleasurable. i buy the frills if i can afford them. if i cant ill just roll down the windows and continue driving.

in case people didnt read the first page of this thread, here is a great link for Hoodloupe users as to how to mount it.
http://www.normanbonney.com/hoodloupe..html

david
www.davidprobst.com

[mcgeedigital]

Sorry to rain on your parade, but it IS overpriced.

Since it's almost the only game in town, then sure, if you need it, you'll pay for it.

But selling a close-up lens, a plastic tube, an eyecup and a few fittings for the same price as a brand new 50mm f1.4 AF lens is ridiculous.

-X

It is not overpriced.

If it were, no one would buy it.

And there are plenty of other options out there.

They just aren't as good.

[xbourque]

It is not overpriced.So let's see, 400$ minus... an eye cup (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Eyecup-Eye-Cup-for-NIKON-D300-D200-D60-D40x-D80-D70-D90_W0QQitemZ170339557578QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigita l_Camera_Accessories?hash=item27a90760ca&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14) (3.45$) and a decent close up lens (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Hoya-55mm-CLOSE-UP-4-Camera-Lens-Filter_W0QQitemZ380141521042QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCam era_Filters?hash=item5882334892&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14) (9.95$) leaves us with 386$ and change to get some double sided adhesive and a plastic cup. Wow! Zacuto's profit margin must be razor thin!



And there are plenty of other options out there.


Plenty?

Besides the Hoodman Hoodloupe and the SockLoupe, what else is out there? I wouldn't count 2 items as "plenty".


If it were, no one would buy it.

Give me a break.

By your logic, I guess the 999$ "I Am Rich" iPhone app wasn't overpriced either since eight people bought it before Apple pulled the plug.
(http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/08/1347212&from=rss)
Same goes for Rolex watches or Louis Vuitton bags, RAM at the Apple Store or Monster Cables for that matter.

These items are sold to happy customers. Doesn't mean they aren't overpriced.

-X

[Stephen Mick]

Sorry to rain on your parade, but it IS overpriced.

Since it's almost the only game in town, then sure, if you need it, you'll pay for it.

But selling a close-up lens, a plastic tube, an eyecup and a few fittings for the same price as a brand new 50mm f1.4 AF lens is ridiculous.

-X


You make it sound so easy, why don't you go make one, MacGyver?

[xbourque]

You make it sound so easy, why don't you go make one, MacGyver?

Because someone already beat me to it.

http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4924&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
http://www.lcdvf.com/

-X

[david_p]

So let's see, 400$ minus... an eye cup (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Eyecup-Eye-Cup-for-NIKON-D300-D200-D60-D40x-D80-D70-D90_W0QQitemZ170339557578QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigita l_Camera_Accessories?hash=item27a90760ca&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14) (3.45$) and a decent close up lens (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Hoya-55mm-CLOSE-UP-4-Camera-Lens-Filter_W0QQitemZ380141521042QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCam era_Filters?hash=item5882334892&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14) (9.95$) leaves us with 386$ and change to get some double sided adhesive and a plastic cup. Wow! Zacuto's profit margin must be razor thin!



Plenty?

Besides the Hoodman Hoodloupe and the SockLoupe, what else is out there? I wouldn't count 2 items as "plenty".



Give me a break.

By your logic, I guess the 999$ "I Am Rich" iPhone app wasn't overpriced either since eight people bought it before Apple pulled the plug.
(http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/08/1347212&from=rss)
Same goes for Rolex watches or Louis Vuitton bags, RAM at the Apple Store or Monster Cables for that matter.

These items are sold to happy customers. Doesn't mean they aren't overpriced.

-X

WOW! i cant believe that i am going to have to defend Zacuto right now even though im more against their pricing that just about anyone out there.

1. first off your math is nowhere close to being accurate. for your information the Schiender 3x loupe (for photogrpahy) is somewhere around $150-$180 US just to buy it in its raw form. you can find the link somewhere in this thread to cinema5D on how to modify to copy the Zfinder. not a bad idea if your handy and want to save...a few bucks. for the money saved though i would rather just have the real thing.

2. Zacuto has actually come up with a very good mounting solution that...actually works. its not stupid looking rubber bands that makes your rig look sort of silly.

3. the design of the Zfinder does actually kick ass on the 5D adding visual clout. not important to some but for me...im glad to have if it happens to be there. it doesnt hurt to "look the part".

4. its built extremely well. and guess what...a lifetime warranty. not bad dont you think.

5. to me 3x is simply better than 1x. but thats just me. if you dont think so then the Hoodloupe should be perfect for you then.

6. there is no equal equivelent yet. there will be though, its just a matter of time. RR's will more than likely sell for around $300.

7. fabricating a quality product does cost a few bucks. Zacuto built the gizmo to a high quality standard and are pricing accordingly. maybe after a few more come on the market they will have to lower their price to compete. maybe i am just so estactic as to what this simple little item will do for my shooting that i feel lucky to have it.

in the meantime people (that actually have the money) are going to sit around and whine about the price when they could have a tool that will change your shooting experience and change your end product in a very serious way? this sort of baffles me!

i will probably never buy another Zacuto product. from what i have seen, they dont have anything over RR. i could be wrong but thats my hunch. ill probably go RR with the Eyespy rig. its not important to me now. maybe others will come along. i use a DVTEC multirig for now and dont care about FF, i either use my hand or an attach lever that is getting it done for now.

with the Zfinder i would have spent more than $400 if i would have had to. wouldnt like it but i would. why? because my end product will be better MUCH BETTER thanks to Z. my state of mind while shooting will be better as well.

this thing is probably the #1 best improvement for DSLR's. without it your just flying in the clouds unless you like to shoot @ f11 all the time.

end of rant
david
www.davidprobst.com

[mcgeedigital]

Because someone already beat me to it.

http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4924&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
http://www.lcdvf.com/

-X

I've compared them both.

The LCD-VF is nice but is not as durable or well made.

[sblfilms]

There is no such thing as "overpriced". Value is unique to the individual comparing them. I would also contend that even if we try and give some definition of overpriced, the Zfinder can't possibly fit it because it is a non-essential item with a demand greater than its supply. Logically speaking, that would mean Zacuto is underpricing the Zfinder given it's demand.

[mcgeedigital]

There is no such thing as "overpriced". Value is unique to the individual comparing them. I would also contend that even if we try and give some definition of overpriced, the Zfinder can't possibly fit it because it is a non-essential item with a demand greater than its supply. Logically speaking, that would mean Zacuto is underpricing the Zfinder given it's demand.

Don't bring logic into this argument.

Everyone knows that I could go into my shop with some cardboard, a magnifying glass, some glue and a dremel tool and make one just like it and it will only cost .05!

[mhood]

Don't bring logic into this argument.

Logic? This is nothing more than a semantic argument...and that's OK. :beer:

[xbourque]

Question for everybody: what's the aspect ratio of the screen on the 5D/7D? (Or even better what's the actual width/height of the screen?)


There is no such thing as "overpriced".

Of course there is:

http://store.zacuto.com/Zound-Hotshoe.html


@davidp:

I never questionned the quality of ZFinder or its usefulness. It seems like a quality product and it gets rave reviews.

My beef is with the (apparently) outrageous margin Zacuto makes on that product. The only reason Zacuto gets away with it is because nobody bothered to make a competing product because it is a minuscule market.
Hey... if they can sell it at that price, more power to them... this is a free market.

At that price, at the very least it could have been metal instead of plastic, and use some sort of bracket that screws in the tripod hole instead of sticky tape. A bit like the RedRock loupe holder, but something that would allow the loupe to click on and off for quick removal.

[USLatin]

What worries me about the LCDVF is the point of contact. The plastic hood seems flimsy as well, which would not allow you to use it as forcibly as you may need to as times. When you don't have a tactical, or RR support, or on a steady, or o a tripod, or whatever the hell you managed to get/rent and chose to use for your shot... when you are shooting hand held with a DSLR... then I can see a rock of an EVF loupe as a must. The LCDVF seems to have a hood that would bend, even if just a little. That could be annoying and mess with you even if just a little, mid-shot. Being messed with mid not isn't trivial.

Add to that a reliable way to take it on and off for when you want to share with a few people or need to try to shoot high. I don't know about a magnetic interface... I mean, even if it is super powerful.. I have no way of knowing if it will be good enough, but I don't feel like I would bet on it. If someone can assure me that strong enough magnets exist in such small size and are affordable enough to count on them being used for such low price and not some cheaper kind... ok... Maybe I'll wait a month, or at least till the Z-Finder is back in stock. Then maybe I get lucky and the LCDVF comes out before that and I get to make a more informed decision.

But still... I don't know if it is worth waiting for the LCDVF. As much as I want to. I do need the cash for other things. But I feel that without it I won't be able to deliver the same as the hard design and mount.


I've compared them both.

The LCD-VF is nice but is not as durable or well made.

Did you? Could you care to comment on this please.


Of course there is:

http://store.zacuto.com/Zound-Hotshoe.html

Respectfully, have you ever touched one with your hands?


At that price, at the very least it could have been metal instead of plastic, and use some sort of bracket that screws in the tripod hole instead of sticky tape. A bit like the RedRock loupe holder, but something that would allow the loupe to click on and off for quick removal.

I bet they thought about it. My guess is weight.

[xbourque]

Respectfully, have you ever touched one with your hands?


LOL. No. Not with my hands (or any other body part).

At least, in a twisted way, you could say that you are "investing" in a quality hot-shoe to quarter/twenty adatper and that you will keep it "for life"... if you manage not to lose it. (Hot shoe mounts and quarter/twenty screws aren't going anywhere).

I still think that a 25$ dollar solution would last a liftetime too... I "borrowed" at hot shoe ball head that my dad got in the seventies. Works great. I'm sure he didn't pay 183$ for it.

I wonder though what's the plan for all these 400$ ZFinders when the 5DmkIII or 7DmkII comes out with slightly larger screens? or focus assist/peaking? or flipout screens (surely you wouldn't want to use the hinge as a point of contact).

--X

[USLatin]

Lol... glad to hear you are not humping gear. Guess it came out a bit funny.

Yes, but there is more. The tighten and loosen action, the security that it is tight enough because of how communicative the design is... I know it doesn't sound like much, but as you said: for life. There are many Zacuto parts that don't convince me over RR gear. But there is about as many that do.

The senenties gear was well designed, at least there was a lot less crap out there. My Dad's OM-1 MD is still a fantastic SLR! Lenses, the Contax, Zuikos, and many more... but you do realize you are making my point, right? :)

[xbourque]

but you do realize you are making my point, right? :)

Well, if your point is that well made quality gear is worth a premium, yes I agree. Especially for stuff that you will keep no matter which camera you use.

If your point is that 183$ for a ball joint (half the price of the audio recorder it's meant to hold!) is "reasonable", then... I guess we agree on principle, but not on the numbers.


-X

[david_p]

Question for everybody: what's the aspect ratio of the screen on the 5D/7D? (Or even better what's the actual width/height of the screen?)



Of course there is:

http://store.zacuto.com/Zound-Hotshoe.html


@davidp:

I never questionned the quality of ZFinder or its usefulness. It seems like a quality product and it gets rave reviews.

My beef is with the (apparently) outrageous margin Zacuto makes on that product. The only reason Zacuto gets away with it is because nobody bothered to make a competing product because it is a minuscule market.
Hey... if they can sell it at that price, more power to them... this is a free market.

At that price, at the very least it could have been metal instead of plastic, and use some sort of bracket that screws in the tripod hole instead of sticky tape. A bit like the RedRock loupe holder, but something that would allow the loupe to click on and off for quick removal.


i agree that almost every other item from Zacuto's pricing seems nuts. but thats ok because we have RR and many others that we can buy a rail system from starting at 100 bucks up to what zacuto wants. its just that i dont really think the Zfinder is terribly overpriced in relation to what else is currently out there. ill bet RR comes out with one at roughly $300. if they had it now and i knew it worked as good then there is no way i would pay for the Zfinder.

Zacuto want $193.00 for a hot shoe? to me...no i would rig something else before i would buy that. the loupe situation is different though. its not just a simple little clamp or twist knob.

im glad its plastic and not metal since it would probably be heavier if it was metal. i can tell you that it is built very good. it reeks of quality. do i need that high of quality for this thing? not really and i could be cool to save a few bucks if they could have scaled the build quality but in the end...400 300 200 bucks...i dont really care. its a tool that i desperately need and i will buy it even if i basically would never have bought from them otherwise. i wont sacrifice my art/work because of pride or ego because of a questionable attitude towards Zacuto. the feeling that maybe "Zacuto finally got me sucked in"... doesnt exist here. they are the only real game in town for me right now (wears eyeglasses) and i am completely happy that they offer this product.

how it attaches is really a personal preference. they way it clamps on is brilliant IMO for video purposes but wanting to shoot photography on a given day then the rim is protruding a bit and im not reall happy but i think i can live with it. the problem with the RR permanent clamp it that you cant take the loupe off without a big hassle. what if you have a few of the clients wanting to huddle around to see what you just shot. not very convenient to do that all of a sudden, at least from my POV. also there is not one problem with sticking this adhesive on there...none at all. before with my hoodloupe i had put down velcro strips. they were solid as a rock. when i pulled them off for the Zfinder adhesive i had absolutely no residue...none. i also was assured from Zacuto that there is no residue from this adhesive and i will take them at their word.

only if i cant live with the slightly protruding mount when shooting photograhpy then i might end up doing the surgery on it like i did with my Hoodloupe after all, but then i will void my warranty. not sure yet. easier to drill into the cheap hoodloupe than the pricey and pretty Zfinder.

assuming a person has the cash available there is really only 2 general questions to ask themselves.

1--will this tool make a difference in my end product by allowing me to pull focus better?
2--will this make my shooting experience any better?

two be yeses for me. $400 is not much to pay considering what i will get back in benefits. thats a fraction of the cost i have in my obscene selection of expensive nikon and canon glass....

in fairness to Zacuto. i have never....yes i said never have i heard a person complain about a Zacuto products quality or their customer service....only the price of course..haha. thats saying a lot for a company. im glad though that there are other options available to choose from if i ever buy a rail system. i like the Eye Spy rig w/ff better than the Zacuto rigs anyway. id like to think that the RR is on par quality wise with Zacuto. if i found out otherwise then who knows...maybe i will have to eventually buck up for the pricing of Zacuto....yikes!

xbourque, thanks for your comments

david
www.davidprobst.com

[sblfilms]

Nothing has inherent value. The value of "Stuff" is decided by the market for said stuff. Zacuto can sell their supply of Zfinders for $400 and so the value of the Zfinder by simple logic is $400. As I mentioned, it is actually likely that the Zfinder is underpriced because Zacuto has demand that out strips its supply at the $400 price level.

[tony240sx]

Wow this thread is getting pretty intense. As many have stated, I also have never heard a complaint about Zacuto gear except price. That's pretty impressive. I'm in no rush for a loop yet. i want to learn the camera for a little and than decide on the best option for me and my budget. It's a tough pill to swallow that I can get a 50mm ef prime for the same price as the zfinder but ultimately it may just be a something I do. The zfinder looks great and is highly recommended. The price is crazy but every person on here says once they shoot with it, they feel it was worth the investment.

[david_p]

Wow this thread is getting pretty intense. As many have stated, I also have never heard a complaint about Zacuto gear except price. That's pretty impressive. I'm in no rush for a loop yet. i want to learn the camera for a little and than decide on the best option for me and my budget. It's a tough pill to swallow that I can get a 50mm ef prime for the same price as the zfinder but ultimately it may just be a something I do. The zfinder looks great and is highly recommended. The price is crazy but every person on here says once they shoot with it, they feel it was worth the investment.

yes you can get a 50mm lens for roughly the same price as the Zfinder.

consider this though...wouldnt you want the best possible ***TOOL***to help you get the best results from your new 50mm?

david
www.davidprobst.com

[PSA1]

yes you can get a 50mm lens for roughly the same price as the Zfinder.

consider this though...wouldnt you want the best possible ***TOOL***to help you get the best results from it?

david
www.davidprobst.com (http://www.davidprobst.com)

Look at it this way, your 50mm doesn't worth anything if your shot is out of focus or it is a pia to get it in focus, right now it is the only one for me cuz it has diopter adjustment and good quality, and ease of use, we need capitalism to work, more competition and price will drop, but since they are the only one that will work for me, I had to suck it up and paid their price, out of focus shot will put me out of business quick, but I think it depend on what kind of work you do, if you are doing run and gun event type then I think it is a must, if not then probably not have to spend this much for one.

[iniosante]

Please yall, if you haven't used the products in dispute quit barking in on this debate with some measure of authority...

If you can only afford the Hoodman- then it is a GOOD product that you'll be happy with and will use often. It is priced accordingly.

If you can afford the Z-finder- then it is a GREAT product that you'll not only be happy with, but one which you'll find essential. It is also priced accordingly.

I own a Microdolly and the retail is a little over $3000. But there are people out there who think a dolly should be made of pvc and cost $100. I can say with absolute certainty that after using the Microdolly you see why it costs $3000 and how very little else can come close to the quality and ENGINEERING you get with something like it.

I think we are also talking about pros vs students/hobbiests here. When I was in college I wouldn't have been able to afford most of the products that I buy now on a regular basis, but I make my living from shooting. Construction workers who make their living from their trade buy DEWALT TOOLS because they are the best. Now I don't buy Dewalt because I don't need the best. Its' not that they are too expensive, its just that I don't need that level of quality for home maintenance repairs- which is a hobby for me, not how I earn my bread and butter. Affordability is based on perspective: those of us who have shot on cameras that cost $30,000 with lenses that run $2000 on tripods that run $6000 under lights that run $15,000 think that a $1700 Canon 7D is more than affordable... and so is the Z-finder.

Purchase what you need and can afford.

**On a side note, I emailed Steve and he said the Z-FINDER DOES WORK ON THE 7D.**

Zacuto engineers some amazing stuff. If you think you can design, produce, market, and sell a better, more affordable product, then by all means do so. Give me a call and I'll buy it.

As for me? I'm a Producer, not an inventor, and I shoot video for a living- so I bought the Z-finder.

Ash
www.iniosante.com

[USLatin]

Well, if your point is that well made quality gear is worth a premium, yes I agree. Especially for stuff that you will keep no matter which camera you use.

If your point is that 183$ for a ball joint (half the price of the audio recorder it's meant to hold!) is "reasonable", then... I guess we agree on principle, but not on the numbers.


-X


Well... then you may be using a different level of audio recorder.

If your audio solution costs $183 you are in a completely different price point. You should NOT expect to get or be looking at pro gear. Zacuto is pro gear for the "pro-sumer" and pro markets. A pro two channel "mixer", not even really a mixer just two channel preamp box, with no recording capabilities costs $650. A pro mixer and recorder with only two channels costs more than a 7D.

You can't expect to get pro-sumer gear for cheap, if you do it is a plus. Thank them! Companies like Red Rock fill in a new bracket, just under Zacuto. And Red Rock is no slouch either.

You get what you pay for. Hopefully you buy exactly what you need.

The "problem" here is that a lot of people don't realize that there is a WIDE gamut of users here. For one what's most important may be to have the ability to get "good enough" most the time. For others the need is to get "best possible" all the time. And every point in between, even beyond both ends. There may be 50mm lenses you can get for the price of the mount, but there are also 50mm lenses that cost as much as a 7D. Some that cost close to a Red One body's cost. Some consider $5,000 RPP primes the steal of the century. Others shoot on a flip and laugh at everyone else knowing that their stuff is better. (if very well may be, content is king)

I like the references to basic economic laws, because they are perfectly right. Prices are set by supply and demand, period. Anything more above that is a pov on the subject.

[xbourque]

If your audio solution costs $183 you are in a completely different price point.

I said that the Zacuto ball joint cost *half* the price of the recorder it's meant to be holding: i.e. a 350$ Zoom H4N... the exact recorder pictured on the product shot on the Zacuto website. Actually, the H4N is listed under "Related Products" on the product page.

-X

[Luis Caffesse]

I said that the Zacuto ball joint cost *half* the price of the recorder it's meant to be holding: i.e. a 350$ Zoom H4N... the exact recorder pictured on the product shot on the Zacuto website. Actually, the H4N is listed under "Related Products" on the product page.

-X

Not to add fuel to the fire - but the Zoom H4N actually retails for just under $300 now (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/600761-REG/Zoom_H4N_H4n_Handy_Mobile_4_Track.html).

There are plenty of Zacuto products that make sense to me - the Zfinder being one of them, I've used it and it's well worth the price.
The DSLR handheld rigs are also incredible.

But as far as that ball joint goes... I have to agree it seems terribly overpriced.
But - as someone else pointed out, if that's what the market will bear, so be it.
It's a very very niche market, and Zacuto doesn't have much direct competition on the high end.

[sblfilms]

What is most amusing about it is that I know a lot of people who own nice cameras, like the RED One, that go for Zacuto gear because of how cheap it is compared with a lot of the Hollywood mainstays...

[USLatin]

I said that the Zacuto ball joint cost *half* the price of the recorder it's meant to be holding: i.e. a 350$ Zoom H4N... the exact recorder pictured on the product shot on the Zacuto website. Actually, the H4N is listed under "Related Products" on the product page.

-X

Well, same thing, $300 sound on a $1,700 camera with a $300 50mm or whatever it costs. And there are private owners of that payed over $100k for their 2/3" digital cameras on this forum, tons of people that own Reds, S35 film cameras, etc. You see my point right? I am not trying to talk about anyone in particular, just trying to bring additional perspective to the conversation.

:thumbup:


What is most amusing about it is that I know a lot of people who own nice cameras, like the RED One, that go for Zacuto gear because of how cheap it is compared with a lot of the Hollywood mainstays...

Exactly. Everything is relative.

As far as I can tell, Zacuto is probably a company that may be targeting two segments. Great products at a not-so-ludicrous price to someone with a nice prosumer kit. And, very affordable solutions that get the job done right, for a fraction of the cost, for people with several tenths of thousands invested into more of a high end package. Bottom line, Zacuto has freaking awesome stuff if you can afford it but some times it is best to buy something else.

[Justyn]

_Probably the only thing I'm going to consider from Zacuto. The strap thing on the hoodman looks like it would really piss me off. If the Z works then I'm down for what it offers and I'll buy all the other stuff from other vendors. I'm thinking of getting the Red Rock Captain Stubbing... that just looks and sounds badass... that's my rig.

[USLatin]

I would probably get some Red Rock stuff too, but for a while I am going HH only! :(

I would get other things from Zacuto though. Like their Z-Arms.

[squig]

I second David's rants

the MKII just wasn't complete until the z-finder was snapped in place....well it's not complete without 24p but now it's useable.

[mhood]

Do ya'll think the LCDVF might do for we Aqualung types?

[Boz]

I think we are also talking about pros vs students/hobbiests here. When I was in college I wouldn't have been able to afford most of the products that I buy now on a regular basis, but I make my living from shooting. Construction workers who make their living from their trade buy DEWALT TOOLS because they are the best. Now I don't buy Dewalt because I don't need the best. Its' not that they are too expensive, its just that I don't need that level of quality for home maintenance repairs- which is a hobby for me, not how I earn my bread and butter. Affordability is based on perspective: those of us who have shot on cameras that cost $30,000 with lenses that run $2000 on tripods that run $6000 under lights that run $15,000 think that a $1700 Canon 7D is more than affordable... and so is the Z-finder.

I think this is where so many pricing arguments come from. For many of the pro's here, $400 is pocket change (relatively speaking) so buying a z-finder is a no brainer. However, to many students/enthusiasts $400 for a loupe is outrageous. Different points of view, both valid.

I can't afford a z-finder, though I'd love to have one. So I'll have to settle for something less. Too bad hoodman doesn't do a higher-end loupe for around $200. I'd be all over that.

[mhood]

What about this Cavision? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/637658-REG/Cavision_MHE52_RCM_LCD_Viewfinder_Set_for.html

[david_p]

What about this Cavision? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/637658-REG/Cavision_MHE52_RCM_LCD_Viewfinder_Set_for.html

didnt even know that it existed. good to know there is another option.

the only thing that worries me on the Cavision is the 6x magnification. wow!

the 3x on the Zfinder is already seriously "big". with this you might really be looking at pixels more than the image.

i would love to see one in action though. price is nice and with a solid mounting solution.

i hope someone can chime in here with some feedback.

david
www.davidprobst.com

{{{EDIT}}} does anyone know why the LCDVF didnt include an adjustable dioptor. isnt that a big omission. i wear glasses and i would think a massive amount of people dont have the perfect vision necessary for this loupe. this one is hard to figure.

[mhood]

This whole Cavision solution looks good to me but what do I know...ENG shouldered camcorders and/or tripods with fluid heads...I never considered rails for anything before.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/637639-REG/Cavision_RS5DM2SET_S_RS5DM2SET_S_DSLR_Shoulder_Mou nt.html

[mhood]

And check out this Cavision follow focus...it can be used in tandom for follow zoom too. OK, I'm done with the fanboy nonsense but I would sure like to hear from someone who has used this Cavision system...it's much more affordable for we unwashed masses.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/626615-REG/Cavision_RFD15BC_RFD15BC_Basic_Mini_Single.html

[PaPa]

That cavision does look very interesting. Would really like to see someone pick it up and give it a go :) Not me, of course.. lol

[PaPa]

And check out this Cavision follow focus...it can be used in tandom for follow zoom too. OK, I'm done with the fanboy nonsense but I would sure like to hear from someone who has used this Cavision system...it's much more affordable for we unwashed masses.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/626615-REG/Cavision_RFD15BC_RFD15BC_Basic_Mini_Single.html

nice find, the only issue with that is the gear arm isn't adjustable. May have a hard time getting the contact point between the lens and the gear.

[david_p]

And check out this Cavision follow focus...it can be used in tandom for follow zoom too. OK, I'm done with the fanboy nonsense but I would sure like to hear from someone who has used this Cavision system...it's much more affordable for we unwashed masses.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/626615-REG/Cavision_RFD15BC_RFD15BC_Basic_Mini_Single.html

now that does look "very well made" and that price is awfully easy to take. can i assume since they say they are accepting orders that is is brand new and nobody has one yet?

david
www.davidprobst.com

[Loic]

I first picked up cavision at work last week to get a feeling and it's really pro gear. The nuts and bolt are against dented round washers that connects together on the set position. So there is no sliding around the fixations. I was concernt to get the good height from the view finder to the head because it's not high on the shoulder. But you can actually customize the position of the shoulder pad really easily.

I bumped into this other product from cavision:

DSLR Dual Handgrip Viewfinder Package


DSLR Single Handgrip Viewfinder Package


But this one is the way to go :
RS5DM2SET-S DSLR Shoulder Mount Package


We use them on Panasonic P2 without the viewfinder. But I don't know how good is the viewfinder.

[Perry Wilson]

Ill stick with my RedRock follow focus V2

[mhood]

nice find, the only issue with that is the gear arm isn't adjustable. May have a hard time getting the contact point between the lens and the gear.

This one is $100 more expensive but seems to be much more adjustable:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/626612-REG/Cavision_RFD15SC_RFD15SC_Basic_Mini_Single.html

[PaPa]

exactly. That's the one i saw and thought may have a chance ;)

[mhood]

<$1K for your whole shoulder rails system with follow focus and viewfinder sounds doable to a cheapskate like me. But as you said...you first. lol

[Perry Wilson]

Just got my Z-finder in the mail today have been playing with it on a point and shoot for now... I am more than impressed with it my point and shoot has never been so stable

[thpriest]

a variation on the hoodman:

http://idcphotography.com/blog/bruce-dorn/check-out-new-idc-lcd-viewfinder

[USLatin]

a variation on the hoodman:

http://idcphotography.com/blog/bruce-dorn/check-out-new-idc-lcd-viewfinder

LCDVF (~$170) + that mounting bracket (~$45) = Promising (~$215)

Unless the hood of the LCDVF buckles of course. And the hole drilling could compromise it... mhh...

It doesn't seem like he wants to sell it alone anyway... yet?

[tony240sx]

I just got the hoodman yesterday. The Zacuto is backordered and for 80 bucks I figured I would give it a shot. It is definitely well built and comes with a nice case. It does the job as others have mentioned but it is nothing spectacular. The lcd looks very clear and focus is slighly easier to get with this on. I think it will mostly come in handy for suny days to have a glare free view of the screen and to get better exposure. I am happy with it for the time being especially for the money. The eyepiece isn't the most comfortable and could be bigger and magnification would help with focus but that's what the Zacuto does very well from what I hear. I just need to try out some of the mounting options listed on here.

[Boz]

Here's a great mod I found for the Hoodman that I'm planning to do on mine once I confirm the Delkin 5D shade will work with the 7D:

http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2707&start=20#p30711

I think the Hoodman is a great for the cash. Sure the Z-finder would be great, but at nearly 4X the cost I just can't justify it (I'd rather put that money towards another lens).

[Jean Dantes]

Hey, in regards to that Cavision LCD Viewfinder, does it exclusively do 6x magnification only, or can it be set to 1x, 2x, etc?

Link to the product here for those who haven't seen it:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/637658-REG/Cavision_MHE52_RCM_LCD_Viewfinder_Set_for.html

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

I'd be surprised if Hoodman didn't come out with a further improved version of their product in the not too distant future, and I bet they sell it for substantially less than Zacuto.

The recent explosion of DSLR sales for video use would seem impossible for Hoodman & others to ignore. Seems reasonable to expect a corresponding explosion of after-market add-ons.

In the meantime & beyond, there'll always be a place in the market for Zacuto-style & Zacuto-priced gear.

The market will probably get bigger, wider & deeper. Interesting times!

[kikojiu]

I never tried Z-finder due to all the TERRIBLY EXPENSIVE stories around...I bought hoodloupe and simply doesn´t work!!! Terrible image deformation can´t properly hold it to the screen and it certainly won´t get better. Most people talking about Zacuto prices are supposedly "professionals". How many of those professionals don´t pay the z-finder with a job??? Some investment has to be made in order to make money, to make our job a better one! I have spent money in lenses which are not cheap, all the ZF series, the Canon 16-35mm 2.8, Nikon 80-200 2.8 AF-ED, nikon 35mm 1.4, 50mm 1.2, 85mm 1.4 and I am having second thoughts about getting a Z-finder??? I miss shots and focus when the loupe comes out of place! I don´t want DIY loupes when someone actually makes the best at this price. Plese stop complaining and start dignifying your work without looking for cheap solutions that won´t take ou anywhere. I am buying the Z-finder tomorrow morning. End of story.

[PSA1]

I never tried Z-finder due to all the TERRIBLY EXPENSIVE stories around...I bought hoodloupe and simply doesn´t work!!! Terrible image deformation can´t properly hold it to the screen and it certainly won´t get better. Most people talking about Zacuto prices are supposedly "professionals". How many of those professionals don´t pay the z-finder with a job??? Some investment has to be made in order to make money, to make our job a better one! I have spent money in lenses which are not cheap, all the ZF series, the Canon 16-35mm 2.8, Nikon 80-200 2.8 AF-ED, nikon 35mm 1.4, 50mm 1.2, 85mm 1.4 and I am having second thoughts about getting a Z-finder??? I miss shots and focus when the loupe comes out of place! I don´t want DIY loupes when someone actually makes the best at this price. Plese stop complaining and start dignifying your work without looking for cheap solutions that won´t take ou anywhere. I am buying the Z-finder tomorrow morning. End of story.

Good for you man, I do live event and with the Z-finder, about 97% of my stuff is focus, there is no way it would be that high without the Z-finder.

[powervideo]

It's not really terribly expensive. For those of us in broadcast television, the price isn't mind-blowing. But I can see for indi guys and event guys it could be. But even the smaller operators I know who have bought swear by it (not at it). Buy it. You won't wake every day thinking, "Damn that Z-finder cost me 400 bucks".

Peter

[evsonline]

If you have not already seen the LCDVF you should take a look at it. It is now currently being offered at EVS. This product is new to the US market. At $189.00 it is a great add on..

http://www.evsonline.com/vlcd-vf-viewfinder.html

http://www.evsonline.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/l/c/lcdvf2.jpg

[tears2040]

If you have not already seen the LCDVF you should take a look at it. It is now currently being offered at EVS. This product is new to the US market.

http://http://www.evsonline.com/vlcd-vf-viewfinder.html (http://http//www.evsonline.com/vlcd-vf-viewfinder.html)

http://www.evsonline.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/l/c/lcdvf2.jpg


Here's the correct link

http://www.evsonline.com/vlcd-vf-viewfinder.html


Also If I like getting up in the air or low to the ground for a shot I have no idea how these things would even work.......

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

i have had one for over a month now it does a great job. i find it fogs up quickly , i haven,t tryed the non fog cloth yet . i was thinking of putting something thicker around the eye peice to keep me further away. when you using the eye peice as a contact point for stabilization you pressing on the eye a little harder. will have to make a pad about 3/8 thick. well worth the $185 .

[evsonline]

Product comes with a "Bluestar" eye chamois that fits over it. This seems to help with the fog.

http://www.evsonline.com/bluestar-large-oval-eye-cushion.html