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philip bloom
09-24-2009, 01:40 PM
I know it doesn't answer ALL your questions but no article ever can. Hopefully it will help you decide as only you can decide, not me!

http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/09/23/5dmkii-or-the-7d/

Rory_B
09-24-2009, 02:45 PM
Nice Article. I already have a 5D but might experiment around with a 7D. All I know is the 5D still has huge demand as I rented it out for a commercial shoot and it paid for 1/2 my camera purchase, so even from that POV it's a good idea for people to hang onto their 5D if they can make money off of it.

If done right you're in the black on the purchase and then can fiddle around with other new toys when they emerge.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
09-24-2009, 03:36 PM
Hi Philip: Thanks for your most recent article and for sharing your experiences with these cameras. It's a fun mix of passion, art and "marketing", and it's much appreciated!

philip bloom
09-24-2009, 03:39 PM
Hi Philip: Thanks for your most recent article and for sharing your experiences with these cameras. It's a fun mix of passion, art and "marketing", and it's much appreciated!

cheers! the loaner 7d goes back tomorrow but I hope to get my pre ordered one tomorrow or Monday.

alexdias
09-24-2009, 03:49 PM
Great article Philip.
Thank you so much.

Alex.

Cranky
09-24-2009, 04:20 PM
> for broadcast work in the UK I need 25p.

So, BBC does not approve its own reporters to use 5D because of aliasing, but it accepts 5D footage from independent filmmakers?

Philip, could you explain in greater detail, what EXACTLY one loses when he uses non EF/EF-S lens? No autofocus, get it. No stabilization on the 7D, because EF-S have the stabilization in the lens, right? What about metering? If I choose aperture priority or shutter priority or full auto, will the cameras meter properly? Um, I mean they cannot open/close iris on the non EF/EF-S lens, but will they display sane numbers? So that when I adjust aperture, the numbers would change and they would be correct? I guess not, there is no way for a camera to know what aperture the lens has... so how does it work? Do I first manually select aperture on the lens, then "select" the same value on the camera, and it would choose correct shutter speed/ISO for me, if I wanted semiautomatic? Or I just use the screen and zebras... are there zebras? Ok, the histogram to adjust my exposure, it should display the correct histogram even if the lens cannot be controlled, after all it gets the light through the lens and analyses it in the camera. I really don't fully understand how this non-standard lens shooting works. Or should I disregard numbers on the screen completely and use a light meter?

philip bloom
09-24-2009, 04:26 PM
> for broadcast work in the UK I need 25p.

So, BBC does not approve its own reporters to use 5D because of aliasing, but it accepts 5D footage from independent filmmakers?

Philip, could you explain in greater detail, what EXACTLY one loses when he uses non EF/EF-S lens? No autofocus, get it. No stabilization on the 7D, because EF-S have the stabilization in the lens, right? What about metering? If I choose aperture priority or shutter priority or full auto, will the cameras meter properly? Um, I mean they cannot open/close iris on the non EF/EF-S lens, but will they display sane numbers? So that when I adjust aperture, the numbers would change and they would be correct? I guess not, there is no way for a camera to know what aperture the lens has... so how does it work? Do I first manually select aperture on the lens, then "select" the same value on the camera, and it would choose correct shutter speed/ISO for me, if I wanted semiautomatic? Or I just use the screen and zebras... are there zebras? Ok, the histogram to adjust my exposure, it should display the correct histogram even if the lens cannot be controlled, after all it gets the light through the lens and analyses it in the camera. I really don't fully understand how this non-standard lens shooting works. Or should I disregard numbers on the screen completely and use a light meter?

There are A LOT more channels in the UK than the BBC :-)

You shoot everything in manual mode for video, metering works fine. Only IS lenses have image stabilisation!

No zebras. Use the metering and your experience or download magic lantern. Search for it here.

Cranky
09-24-2009, 04:31 PM
You shoot everything in manual mode for video, metering works fine.
But the camera cannot display aperture because it cannot read aperture value from the lens, right? Does it display some random aperture value or no aperture value at all, only shutter speed/ISO?

andrew00
09-24-2009, 05:08 PM
It's a tough decision for me - 7D looks the right choice, but as you point out, the price difference here in the UK is ridiculous so it makes a no brainer seem complicated and annoying.

squig
09-24-2009, 05:13 PM
thx mate, as I suspected I want both for the same reasons you do. You didn't make any mention of magic lantern which is a major drawback for me until it gets ported to the 7D.

When you say the 5D is still low light king is that comparing them with aperture set to attain a comparable DOF? f/2.8 on the 7D vs f/5.6 on the 5D for example at the same ISO.

Oh and does the slightly higher bit-rate on the 7D make much of a difference?

mcgeedigital
09-24-2009, 05:39 PM
I have found that, especially with the Zacuto Z-finder, that you can tell when whites are clipping and close down the iris a stop or so.

The best way to do this is to just start shooting.

commanderspike
09-24-2009, 06:44 PM
Great article. It is all about the lenses for me. I'd stick with the GH1 were it not a 2x crop and awful codec. The 7D is great, but it doesn't offer much for my uses above and beyond the 5D and image is king. I am also a keen photographer so the stills are important too.

Hmmm, I'll hold off on the 7D for now personally. It's on the high street in Jessops tomorrow for 1699 but my imported 5D Mark II in my girlfriend's luggage only set me back 1500. And yes I agree the UK pricing is ridiculous right now. Our currency has regained it's strength. Give us a break!! :)

Got a Sigma 17-35mm for the 5D. As wide as I dared think possible without major vignetting concerns, but the image from that lens is superb at 17mm with only a tiny bit of light fall off at the edges. AF seems wrong though. Seems to confirm focus correctly through the view finder and then the photo is focussed to objects a bit closer than where the AF locked on.

lbigdogg
09-24-2009, 07:01 PM
So....I'm thinking of selling my 5d for the 7d (I've got one on order from Adoroma). I'm doing Wedding Videography to pay for the equipment. As a Wedding video guy, I love the low light capabilities of the 5d, but having the lens wide open on my 1.8 or 1.4, narrows the dof so much that I have a hell of time keeping, say, a dancing couple in focus. So the less shallow dof of the 7d would actually be an advantage for me, but how much does the lowlight suffer from the 5d to 7d? Is the hit on IQ worth it?

Jean Dantes
09-24-2009, 08:59 PM
Awesome article Philip!! Thanks so much for writing it!!!

How would you compare the 7D's rolling-shutter to the GH1's?

Thanks again!!

tony240sx
09-24-2009, 09:05 PM
Thanks Philip. It was great to hear a sum up of both cams from someone who has shot both and knows their stuff. I preordered a 7d but I was thinking 5d also. I know there is a pretty big demand for 5d shooters it seems, do you guys feel that will translate over to the 7d also.

And Philip sorry if this has been discussed but what lens did you use on the first close up in Sofia's people? One of the greatest shots I have seen. Thanks.

SimonPatrick
09-25-2009, 07:50 AM
After watching that footage from the zacuto office with the whip pans showing the still very evident skew/jello, I've suddenly lost some interest in the 7D. I'll probably regain enthusiasm after a nights rest... then again, I might wait for the next great thing that's bound to come along. (scarlet?)

USLatin
09-25-2009, 09:36 AM
Noooo... I hate you Phillip. I hadn't looked at the 5D's image closely till this article saying to myself I best not take a peak or I'll regret it. Ignorance is bliss. But I couldn't resist! Now I see what everyone was raving about, which I fully believed was true of course. But now the grass is greener on the other side, even if the other side doesn't shoot 24fps. ;-)


I have one question for you Phillip. Would you say that at $600.- the Tokina is a worthy purchase, even if just as a great 16mm f/2.8 in FF? What would compete against it in full frame?


I can't wait for Epic FF35! That and the day I have enough cash to buy one! You'd be able to shoot with a FF35 sensor, then switch it down to a S35 sensor, do every fps from super long timelapse to real slow motion, and all in RAW. FF35 fits very well into certain moods and scenes.

I am very happy to be receiving my 7D soon! I can't believe the price difference is so much tighter in Europe. The decision is easy as pie on this side of the Atlantic, for those of us that only have one personal camera anyway. However... I will be in pain until the Magic Lantern guys come up with the AGC fix. Now I am getting scared that they might not.

Thank you for the article.

ydgmdlu
09-25-2009, 09:39 AM
After watching that footage from the zacuto office with the whip pans showing the still very evident skew/jello, I've suddenly lost some interest in the 7D. I'll probably regain enthusiasm after a nights rest... then again, I might wait for the next great thing that's bound to come along. (scarlet?)
It wasn't done in 60p mode, was it? So we have no idea what the real, overall rolling shutter performance will be. One of the first things that I did when I got my GH1 was test the rolling shutter in every mode. I did the standard whip-pan test. In 60p mode, it was essentially imperceptible. In 24p and 30p, it looked pretty bad. So there.

In my "Frame rate and jello" thread, I posited that no DSLR will have "good enough" rolling shutter performance in slower frame rates until the camera companies design the sensors and image processors specifically for video. Rumors suggest that the 1D Mark IV will be the first DSLR designed for video. So we'll have to wait until next spring, when it's announced. Next spring is also the earliest estimated time frame for Scarlet. Both will probably have similar price points (with Scarlet being much more expensive for the FF model). Do you want to wait six months? Maybe you do, and that's fine. But in this business, never keep waiting for technology unless you can manage with what you already have.

SimonPatrick
09-26-2009, 01:21 AM
Well after a nights rest I'm pretty much back to thinking the 7D (and the GH1) is great for the money. I think if I needed a camera for a project right now, I'd have no problem buying the 7D. On the subject of Red, I recall reading that the GH1 has similar jello to the Red One...can anyone confirm this?

Ian-T
09-26-2009, 06:50 AM
....On the subject of Red, I recall reading that the GH1 has similar jello to the Red One...can anyone confirm this?
In 60p yeah but not 24p.

philip bloom
09-26-2009, 06:52 AM
Awesome article Philip!! Thanks so much for writing it!!!

How would you compare the 7D's rolling-shutter to the GH1's?

Thanks again!!

i need to do side by side to be honest as i couldnt say. similar i would guess

philip bloom
09-26-2009, 06:55 AM
I have one question for you Phillip. Would you say that at $600.- the Tokina is a worthy purchase, even if just as a great 16mm f/2.8 in FF? What would compete against it in full frame?


.

Sorry to cost you money!

Don't but the Tokina for full frame. Waste of money. Save up and get the Canon 16-35mm f2.8 or a Sigma 14mm for full frame.

philip bloom
09-26-2009, 06:57 AM
Thanks Philip. It was great to hear a sum up of both cams from someone who has shot both and knows their stuff. I preordered a 7d but I was thinking 5d also. I know there is a pretty big demand for 5d shooters it seems, do you guys feel that will translate over to the 7d also.

And Philip sorry if this has been discussed but what lens did you use on the first close up in Sofia's people? One of the greatest shots I have seen. Thanks.

Cheers Tony.

I shot all of Sofia's people with a Nikon Zeiss 50mm f1.4

There will be a big demand for 7d shooters. Am sure of it. Am already getting calls and Saturday Night Live asked my help to get hold of one as they reshot their opening sequence on one two weeks ago after watching my Dublin's People short.

tony240sx
09-26-2009, 08:58 AM
Great. Good to hear Philip. And I am in NY so if you need a hand on something for SNL, I think I can free up some time, lol.

Uwe Lansing
09-26-2009, 09:06 AM
Rolling shutter + noise rough test by PB: http://www.vimeo.com/6763664