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View Full Version : Thinking about selling my EX1 for a 7D



andrew00
09-22-2009, 04:15 PM
Hey,

So I currently own a few cameras - Sony EX1 + Letus Extreme & Nikon lenses, DVX100A stock, Nikon D90, and I'm thinking of selling them all for a Canon 7D w/Zacuto extras and Canon lenses.

I was wondering if anyone could please offer some advice.

I do various things for work and use various equipment for it - I shoot live music and use my D90, I make music videos and used my Ex1 and have the DVX collecting dust.

I also have many passion projects around music, mostly involving filming bands in the streets, roaming around and this is something I want to do more of (perhaps even build a business out of). At the moment, I use the EX1+Letus combo and handhold it like a shotgun.

Much as I love the beauty (and for me, it really is all about the beauty), this method is not 'low key', nor does it make me feel especially safe lugging round a beast. Also it's damn heavy as a combo, and presents focusing challenges etc due to the ergonomics.

I'm all about the 'look', I don't like the stock lens look after using the organic looking Letus, and that's why I'm attracted to the 7D - it has 'the look', whilst keeping a low profile, being much smaller and lighter, and generally cheaper.

I use my Ex1 infrequently - I work for myself, by myself, so if I'm doing a music video then in a month I'll shoot for one day and have the rest as pre/post production.

If I did sell all that I've got, I'd replace it with a 7D, lenses, Zacuto tactical stabiliser stuff + the Zfinder. I'd also need to get an extra audio record - I have one Zoom H4, but I'd prob need another or equivalent as I need 4 audio ins. I'd then rent the Ex1 for music video shoots, on that once a month day that I use it.

I suppose I'm speaking out loud, and I also know the smart money is to get a 7D on rental or loan and test it out and see what I think.

I'm just wondering what you guys would do. I'm new to this whole business, tbh, so I don't have years of experience to judge these things.

Cheers!
a x

Luis Caffesse
09-22-2009, 04:16 PM
I also know the smart money is to get a 7D on rental or loan and test it out and see what I think.

Bingo.
I think you just answered your own question.
:)

ydgmdlu
09-22-2009, 04:32 PM
While the best advice is to try the 7D for yourself, think about it this way: If you absolutely need to have a proper camcorder, then keep the EX1 and/or the DVX. But if you have all that stuff to potentially sell, imagine how much money you'll save by switching to the 7D. We're talking several thousands of dollars. There are so many things that you can fund with that money, from gear to projects to things that have nothing to do with videography and filmmaking. I envy your position.

el presidente
09-22-2009, 04:41 PM
I too have an ex1 and letus elite.
and an xlh1 and hv20........

the development of this new form has pushed me to sell the xlh1 and buy the 7d and a 24mm f1.4 sigma and a tokina 11-16mm and a few nikon-eos adapters for my elites nikon primes all washed down with a marshall monitor with peaking etc.

I thought..shall i sell my ex1 combo?...but until someone brings out a "proper" camcorder then the ex1 is still a great tool to compliment the setup.



just.......
be carefull not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

booth
09-22-2009, 04:59 PM
Totally agree with the above post. I have an EX1/Letus set up but I'd like a 7D for the form factor. I can get terrific results from my current set up but it's quite a lot of kit to lug around for smaller jobs or work where I have to be here, there and everywhere and everything's tightly scheduled. I suspect with a 7D with less set up time I'd have more time to be creative or get more coverage for the client. But all that said, there is some work that I've had to do over the past 6 months where I can't imagine using a 7D as my main camera.

My ideal arsenal of kit at the moment would be EX1 - Letus - 7D (with Nikon mount) - and a Scarlet S35 (when they arrive). Then I'd be covered for any work that'd come my way from event coverage & corporate work to serious filmmaking projects.

andrew00
09-22-2009, 05:14 PM
Aye the portability issue is something that's really making me think. As I said I love the Letus look, so I always shoot with that on if I can, but since I shoot run and gun style stuff - following a band in the street, grabbing them in the toilet or on a bus, it's real difficult to manage everything, get good footage, plus keep track of your gear. Then there's the inherent zoom with all this stuff.

I've been looking at the Edirol R-44 portable recorder - records to SDHC cards, 600 and 4 tracks simultaneous. I'm thinking about that in a carry case over my shoulder w/the Canon attached to my shoulder+eye would give me everything the EX1/Letus + Zoom H4 does probably with a 1/3rd the weight and bulk.

Nik Manning
09-22-2009, 05:57 PM
If you are only using the EX1 once a month I think you should sell sell sell. If your main focus was video production and you were shooting paid gigs every 2 weeks or so then I could see keeping it. Get the 7D. I think most of us video hobbyist would be better served with a 7D. Renting is always a option if needed. Think of all the amazing work you can do with the 7D to help get you to the point where clients will pay for your rentals.

Lucian
09-22-2009, 07:30 PM
Bingo.
I think you just answered your own question.
:)

How come more here aren't down with this?

The footage released to date passes through Canon's watchful and vengeful eyes.

Max Lamare
09-22-2009, 07:48 PM
Hey Guys I have 2 question's: Are People actually make Movies on these 7D's? And Why?


Sorry to the OP for Hijacking.

dandobi.com
09-22-2009, 07:58 PM
i think you're going to lose a lotta money trying to flip your current set up ... it's not like it's out of date, that's actually a MONEY rig.

if you have that mentality that "oh something new is available, i need that now" that you'll NEVER win ... work with what ya got and kick ass with it !

worst comes to worst, get the 7D as a B-Roll camera ! : )

ydgmdlu
09-22-2009, 08:56 PM
Hey Guys I have 2 question's: Are People actually make Movies on these 7D's? And Why?
To the first question: The answer is technically no, since nobody owns a 7D yet. But there are a number of people here who are planning on using the 7D for shorts and features ASAP.

ydgmdlu
09-22-2009, 09:00 PM
i think you're going to lose a lotta money trying to flip your current set up ... it's not like it's out of date, that's actually a MONEY rig.

if you have that mentality that "oh something new is available, i need that now" that you'll NEVER win ... work with what ya got and kick ass with it !

worst comes to worst, get the 7D as a B-Roll camera ! : )
Why would he lose a lot of money? Do you not understand the reasons why he wants to replace his current set-up? It's not because he just wants something new. To me, it sounds like he's trying to downsize and save money while improving the quality of his output. It sounds extremely practical to me.

tony240sx
09-22-2009, 09:40 PM
Im in a similar position. I have an hmc150 right now and was also using a gh1. I sold the gh1 and I preordered a 7d. I am thinking for what I do the 3k I can get for the hmc could snag me some nice glass and gear for the 7d and leave me a few bucks extra. I can keep both but the work isn't exactely rolling in with the hmc150. I love the camera and the image but the codec is a down point for some clients and whether I agree with it or not too many people see it as not pro enough. i see a lot of jobs now requesting a 5d and I don't see the 7d being any different. I feel a well equiped 7d setup may serve me better simply for getting work. My own projects are mostly short films anyway so the recording time restriction is no problem. What do you guys think from a purely getting gigs standpoint.

Justyn
09-22-2009, 10:03 PM
I have the 150 and I wouldn't think of selling it because I get so much ENG type work and extreme sports type stuff that a 7D wouldn't be as practical and be as easy to get steady results. I also sometimes have to record longform events and the limited time is a problem. So I'm thinking of keeping my 150 and getting a 7D for the more cinematic and low-key type shooting that this camera provides. I do plan on doing some music videos and a couple of test shoots for a feature and the 7D is a better choice on that.

I can tell you that I have thought too about selling it and getting a whole new package. It would be a smart call if you are moving into different production areas that sometimes I get. Sometimes it might be a talking head shoot and when it pays well I'm their huckleberry

astigmatic
09-22-2009, 10:35 PM
is the 7d image quality really better than the ex1? The resolving power of a bare ex1 is simply amazing...crisp and beautiful imagery.. if the 7d can do 1000 lines then I may actually go for a 7d..

Nik Manning
09-22-2009, 10:44 PM
is the 7d image quality really better than the ex1? The resolving power of a bare ex1 is simply amazing...crisp and beautiful imagery.. if the 7d can do 1000 lines then I may actually go for a 7d..

Well technically we don't know yet about the image quality but the 7D should be similar to a EX1 with a 35mm adapter which does not have as high image quality as a EX1 without 35mm adapter. 7D will definitely have the more cinematic image quality.

Lucian
09-22-2009, 11:00 PM
is the 7d image quality really better than the ex1? The resolving power of a bare ex1 is simply amazing...crisp and beautiful imagery.. if the 7d can do 1000 lines then I may actually go for a 7d..

If the 7d is similar to the 5d in IQ, the EX1 will be superior. The comments I've read from people who own both cameras, say the EX is better.

Luis Caffesse
09-22-2009, 11:20 PM
The comments I've read from people who own both cameras, say the EX is better.

'Better' will always depend on context.
It all depends what kind of work you're doing - and what you need your gear to do.

If doing a lot of work where sound is crutial, I could see the advantages to using a dedicated video camera with onboard sound.

If doing only Broll image shots, I can see the advantages of using a 5D or GH1 over something as 'bulky' as an EX1 or HPX170.

If you're shooting is extremely low light in a remote location, you'd be hard pressed to beat the 5D for it's low light capability - whereas the EX1 is a killer camera when it comes to clean sharp images.

I realize I'm not answering anything here - I'm only wanting to point out that outside of any context it's somewhat meaningless to say one camera is 'better' than another.

Lucian
09-23-2009, 12:12 AM
I realize I'm not answering anything here - I'm only wanting to point out that outside of any context it's somewhat meaningless to say one camera is 'better' than another.

Yes but the query was specifically about image quality. Not dof, low light ability, or ergonomics or sound. With regards to IQ exclusively, the EX1 is one tough cookie. And if a still camera that's 1/3 the price of a Sony produces a better video image, Sony might as well fold up their tent and go home. But, we'll see in few weeks once people like Barry Green start running the 7d through the meat grinder.

Luis Caffesse
09-23-2009, 12:20 AM
Fair enough - not to split hairs though, my point would be that it still depends what you need to do.
I recently worked on a gig where we were shooting a sit down interview with two cams.

A-cam was an EX1 with a nanoflash recorder, capturing 100mbps XDCam
B-cam was, believe it or not, a little GH1 sitting on a gorillapod off to the side.

And I'll be damned is that GH1 footage didn't look absolutely every bit as good as the EX1 footage to me.
I'm not saying better ... but every bit as good.
And we're talking a $1500 camera up against nearly $10,000 worth of gear.

Then again, it was a static shot, background was blurred out for the most part, not much work for the codec to do (and it was well lit) - so it was a situation where that camera could really shine, and the limitations of it were not a factor at all.

Had we been shooting something different - well, it probably would have been a different story.
But in that situation - looking back - shooting with two GH1s would have been just as acceptable.

Lucian
09-23-2009, 01:03 AM
Fair enough - not to split hairs though, my point would be that it still depends what you need to do.
I recently worked on a gig where we were shooting a sit down interview with two cams.

A-cam was an EX1 with a nanoflash recorder, capturing 100mbps XDCam
B-cam was, believe it or not, a little GH1 sitting on a gorillapod off to the side.

And I'll be damned is that GH1 footage didn't look absolutely every bit as good as the EX1 footage to me.
I'm not saying better ... but every bit as good.
And we're talking a $1500 camera up against nearly $10,000 worth of gear.

Then again, it was a static shot, background was blurred out for the most part, not much work for the codec to do (and it was well lit) - so it was a situation where that camera could really shine, and the limitations of it were not a factor at all.

Had we been shooting something different - well, it probably would have been a different story.
But in that situation - looking back - shooting with two GH1s would have been just as acceptable.

It's been said that the talking head interview is the 5d's (and probably the 7d's) killer app. Fuzzing out the background takes a lot of pressure off trying to make that bookcase tidy and making the Diploma on the wall look like it's from Dartmouth and not Devry.

Zim
09-23-2009, 01:39 AM
I'm sure they will once it is released.


Hey Guys I have 2 question's: Are People actually make Movies on these 7D's? And Why?


Sorry to the OP for Hijacking.

Sttratos
09-23-2009, 01:44 AM
If the 7d is similar to the 5d in IQ, the EX1 will be superior. The comments I've read from people who own both cameras, say the EX is better.

Are there any comparisons besides the vimeo ex1+letus vs D90 vs 5D one?

Eddy Robinson
09-23-2009, 01:44 AM
i think you're going to lose a lotta money trying to flip your current set up ... it's not like it's out of date, that's actually a MONEY rig.

Well, the fact that it's a money rig means he'll get a decent price for it. OP, Rent to check then I'd sell everything except the EX & Letus, maybe the Letus too. Sell the older stuff cheap, you have too many cameras :-)

Ian-T
09-23-2009, 05:37 AM
...you could always give one to me.. :)

andrew00
09-23-2009, 06:09 AM
I've been running the maths a little and I can rent the Ex1+35mm adapter for about 200 a day. If I were to sell my Ex1+Letus I'd be looking at, I dunno, around 5000. Which means if I shoot 25 music videos I've 'paid off' the cost of the Ex1. If I do, say, one a month, then I'm talking 2 years, ignoring depreciation, any problems that need fixing etc.

If I then also sold my D90 and DVX (and my old Pentax K10D I need to flog!) maybe I'd come out at about 1500-2000. So maybe all in, with the accessories and bags and cards and training DVD's, maybe I'd end up with 8000.

A 7D you can get for an (inflated b/c we're British, Grr!) 1500. Add, say, an extra 1000 est for lenses and cards and batteries, then 1750 for Zacuto stabilisation + focus gear and an Edirol R44 for sound recording and you're talking 4250, making a 'profit' of nearly 4000.

It's a tempting flip to do, all theoretical of course, but since my focus is on portability, low imprint and filmic images, it looks to me like the 7D could be the right fit gear wise and even allow me to upgrade some areas w/the R44 etc.

zijital
09-23-2009, 06:12 AM
Q: How well does any video camera take stills?
A: As good as a cheap point-&-shoot, better than a camera phone, but nowhere near as great as a Hasselblad.

The 7D is a still camera w/ a video function. If the look of the video function is what you want, then it is all the video camera you need. I think all the accessories you need to add to a DSLR to be able to shoot video means that it isn't natively a good video camera.

Your EX1 & DVX are both very good video cameras. Keep 'em. Sell the D90 & Letus & you should have enough money left over for a 7D.

Like mentioned before... remember if your goal is to make a living, buying & selling gear before it has paid for itself just to have the newest toys on the block doesn't help your bank account.

Z1Scottie
09-23-2009, 06:21 AM
i say sell the EX1. IMHO, it was the worst camera I have ever had. too difficult to get anything worthwhile out of it. maybe I had a bad one. I have been shooting a long time, and have used all types of cameras, but this one was the absolute worst. I say get the 7D and some nice glass, if it fits into your workflow and you can adjust to shooting with a DSLR. I have tried with our 5DII, and it is awkward as hell, so I am keeping my paid for HMC150s for a while. get what you can for it and never look back!

morgan_moore
09-23-2009, 07:31 AM
I hate my EX1, I cant see focus, it all looks soft, transition to highlight is horrid (cine profile)

the controls and WB are baffling

BUT

it is one neat package

no lens changes
no sound recorder
no wires to com unplugged
long record duration

it just a nice little package

http://www.vimeo.com/6694804

is my latest trail with it (this is supposed to be shakey!)

heading to the beach like that and working with fast moving reality one must question the value of no lens changes etc

so it is the right tool for some jobs

S

ydgmdlu
09-23-2009, 08:07 AM
The 7D is a still camera w/ a video function. If the look of the video function is what you want, then it is all the video camera you need. I think all the accessories you need to add to a DSLR to be able to shoot video means that it isn't natively a good video camera.
All fallacies.

1. If you want to shoot great video, then get the tool that gives you the output that you want. If you're satisfied with cell-phone-quality video, then use a cell phone. If you want 24p standard-def, get the DVX100. If you need all of the functionality and ergonomics that a proper camcorder offers, then get a camcorder. If that doesn't matter, and you just want the look that a DSLR gives you, then get a DSLR. That simple.

2. What accessories does one need to make a DSLR able to shoot video? Camera body, lens, memory card, charged battery. Hit "record" and bam -- there's your video.

3. So a good video camera is defined by how few accessories you need to make it work and how easy working with it is? Then by your definition, the RED One must be a terrible video camera, surely one of the worst ever made!


Like mentioned before... remember if your goal is to make a living, buying & selling gear before it has paid for itself just to have the newest toys on the block doesn't help your bank account.
You clearly haven't been paying attention to what the OP says that his situation and his needs are. It's not about "having the newest toys"; it's about all of the practical reasons that one can imagine. And in the end, he'd actually be saving a LOT of money.

pact2roll
10-14-2009, 07:51 AM
i think you're going to lose a lotta money trying to flip your current set up ... it's not like it's out of date, that's actually a MONEY rig.

if you have that mentality that "oh something new is available, i need that now" that you'll NEVER win ... work with what ya got and kick ass with it !

worst comes to worst, get the 7D as a B-Roll camera ! : )

Has anyone tried cutting EX! and 7d footage together? Could you use the 7d as a b-roll camera for instert shots without throwing the audience?

Noedig
10-14-2009, 08:27 AM
Has anyone tried cutting EX! and 7d footage together? Could you use the 7d as a b-roll camera for instert shots without throwing the audience?

Philip Bloom did that with the 5D for his 7D training DVD so I'm guess he thought they would match well enough. Because of that I would guess the 7D would match as well.

Philip did have a massive problem with the 5D footage, but it was in post dealing with the 30 fps of the 5D compared to 29.97 of the EX1... that wouldn't be an issue with the 7D.

You can read what he says here (http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/10/01/5dmkii-or-the-7d/).

Jean Dantes
10-14-2009, 11:33 AM
Has anyone tried cutting EX! and 7d footage together? Could you use the 7d as a b-roll camera for instert shots without throwing the audience?

Here is a 5D cut together with EX1:

http://www.vimeo.com/7041468

pact2roll
10-15-2009, 08:47 AM
Here is a 5D cut together with EX1:

http://www.vimeo.com/7041468

Is this footage all intercut, or are there two sections with the different cameras?
Could you show any timecode examples of the different cameras? Is this all after color correction?

Also, 2:04 is fantastic, what was the camera and lens on that shot in particular?

ROCKMORE
12-07-2009, 03:54 PM
Hey,

So I currently own a few cameras - Sony EX1 + Letus Extreme & Nikon lenses, DVX100A stock, Nikon D90, and I'm thinking of selling them all for a Canon 7D w/Zacuto extras and Canon lenses.

I was wondering if anyone could please offer some advice.

I do various things for work and use various equipment for it - I shoot live music and use my D90, I make music videos and used my Ex1 and have the DVX collecting dust.

I also have many passion projects around music, mostly involving filming bands in the streets, roaming around and this is something I want to do more of (perhaps even build a business out of). At the moment, I use the EX1+Letus combo and handhold it like a shotgun.

Much as I love the beauty (and for me, it really is all about the beauty), this method is not 'low key', nor does it make me feel especially safe lugging round a beast. Also it's damn heavy as a combo, and presents focusing challenges etc due to the ergonomics.

I'm all about the 'look', I don't like the stock lens look after using the organic looking Letus, and that's why I'm attracted to the 7D - it has 'the look', whilst keeping a low profile, being much smaller and lighter, and generally cheaper.

I use my Ex1 infrequently - I work for myself, by myself, so if I'm doing a music video then in a month I'll shoot for one day and have the rest as pre/post production.

If I did sell all that I've got, I'd replace it with a 7D, lenses, Zacuto tactical stabiliser stuff + the Zfinder. I'd also need to get an extra audio record - I have one Zoom H4, but I'd prob need another or equivalent as I need 4 audio ins. I'd then rent the Ex1 for music video shoots, on that once a month day that I use it.

I suppose I'm speaking out loud, and I also know the smart money is to get a 7D on rental or loan and test it out and see what I think.

I'm just wondering what you guys would do. I'm new to this whole business, tbh, so I don't have years of experience to judge these things.

Cheers!
a x

I've been studying the 5D and 7D for months and love the images I've seen, but flaws both cameras have has stopped me from buying one till they work it out. The problems can bite you in the ass. I have a shoot next week and I have 3 options depending on what my client wants to spend.
1.RED ONE rental
2. Sony EX3 with the Letus and Zeiss primes.
3. Sony EX3 standard lens
I rent for my production work because every job is different. If I had bought a 5D or 7D it would still sit this one out on the bench.
Your very smart if you just get a 7D to try out for yourself before selling out your other gear. You should probably try to get your Sony EX1 to work for you and get some paying projects for it. They may be on the low end of HD but have a good reputation for trouble free images, and no moire / aliasing baggage. Those flaws will be a heavier load than all your gear put together.
You already have an acceptable package of equipment, go make some money with it.
For example ,I'm renting an EX3 with Letus and a set of Nikons for $300 a day for a corp shoot. If your smart you can make money with that combo.

docrock
12-10-2009, 03:03 AM
"A 7D you can get for an (inflated b/c we're British, Grr!) 1500. Add, say, an extra 1000 est for lenses and cards and batteries, then 1750 for Zacuto stabilisation + focus gear and an Edirol R44 for sound recording and you're talking 4250, making a 'profit' of nearly 4000."

You've obviously thought this out, thoroughly! I'm impressed as it seems most making the move from a functional video cam to DSLR doesn't think out the importance of stabilization, sound, media, and power. You have, and this is an important factor. These are the "challenges" when choosing to shoot with a DSLR. There are also limitations on the Post end, as well as some annoying video issues to be aware of and shoot around. You had to deal with the rolling shutter, so you're familiar...but the EX1 is not a known alias-prone camera, while the 7d is. I'd spend some time reading Barry Green's recent tests on the cameras...again, to know and be aware of their limitations. There are situations, including pattern shots that can destroy your footage...shots and situations I've found very easy to avoid, be aware of and shoot around.

I have been considering selling one of my bigger cameras (EX1 or 200a), as I've been shooting a LOT more with my DSLRs. For a long time, the 5d was the 3rd camera on every shoot and primarily used for static (extra) shots at weddings (behind the scenes/pre and post celebration). EX1 and 200a were the main cameras. Now, with the 7d over the last couple of months, my wife and I have been using the 5d for a Wide...7d on a Zacuto and the EX-1 for Run-n-Gun shots at events.

Yes, they have their shortcomings...but so do all cameras. Learning their soft spots is a smart idea, but you've obviously put it all down on paper...bringing yourself an extra 4k! And your still able to rent the EX1 for those special opportunities you'll need it.

Just a couple of other items to be aware of with the current Canons if you do get rid of BOTH of your other kits...

You are limited to 12 minutes of HD recording at a pop. It's not immediate, but pretty close, within a second or two you're back up and running...but it does have to take a quick break. Something to be aware of if you're shooting any long form event footage.

Also, I've not had the issue...but my partner in crime has. Indoors, ambient temp, 72 degrees (F) and after about 28-32 minutes, his camera shuts down to overheat warnings. It's also mentioned by Canon and not a big secret....BUT, something, again to be aware of if you're doing anything long form. I've never had an issue, but we use ours for 30-45 second takes each...maybe that much time between...never marathon recording for me

The flip side to these cameras is another positive. They are absolutely FANTASTIC still cameras. Obviously, with documentary/band type work, stills are plenty usable...and maybe a fantastic addition to your production. 18mpxl stills can be cropped down significantly to hit 2k:) At 8fps still shooting...you can take some really cool (I call 'em "series" shots) shot runs of 120-150 frames, drop 'em on your NLE and drop some cool music in. I don't have them on my local computer, but we did a series of 3 music videos for a local Bluegrass band utilizing almost as much still photography as we did motion in each. They turned out VERY cool...lots of fun stuff you can play with in the photo editors as well to turn out some cool effects, etc.

Initially, I would've attempted to steer you the other direction (keep your EX1)....but after reading your thought process, your willingness to defeat the challenges of shooting with DSLRs (stabilization, follow focus, lenses, sound)...I have to agree with your decision.

For me, I still need both...but I'm very excited about the next generation or two. I do know my next "video cam" purchase will be the Red Scarlett. Looks like a promising setup for mid-late 2010. Under 5k too! These are pretty exciting times for video...Canon...actually Nikon, first with the D90, hit it out of the park! The perfect answer for those of us with much more passion (for video) for the craft than we have money:)

ROCKMORE
12-10-2009, 04:01 PM
It all depends on If you can make money with the EX1 or not. It can be a good low budget rental camera that can earn enough to buy a 7D. If it's strictly a creative decision, than the 7D does open up a lot of new ground. Just be careful with the pitfalls. The new overheating issue could be a big one. I'd just keep shooting and wait for the next generation of DSLRs.