SDHC card + Adapter = NOT WORTH IT IF YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL

[lahoozaa]

I'm sure many people are going to say, "oh well I've never had any problems, you wait for the green light to turn on? you overcrank? you use the right SDHC card? Sounds like a human error to me."

Well that's fine. I felt the same way until yesterday. I've owned an EX1 since may 2008, and it's been a lovely camera. I live in los angeles and have been VERY lucky to be shooting professionally with it almost immediately after I bought it. The KxS and MxR etc. solutions for cheap media came out, sweet, even better. Now I've saved money and taught sony a lesson for charging so much for their solid states.

Well I shot with the camera on over 100 shoots.. Not to sound pompous but I have never done a free shoot other than for my sole interests, nore will I ever. I am doing this to make money, not to "break in" to the industry. Since I upgraded to 1.11 in september 08, I have been using the MxR SDHC combo on every single shoot. In case you were wondering, 16gb Sandisk Ultra II's purchased from BnH. Again, up until yesterday the combo has worked flawlessly and has been awesome.

Well, here I am in france on a PBS Cooking Shoot (again, not to sound pompous) but they PAID me to fly out to france, eat the best food in the world, and shoot some billionaire champagne producer in the champagne region. I shot an entire day in this amazing factory with these really nice people, getting some AWESOME shots and interviews, only to shut the camera off after finishing in one location, then turning it on in the next location and finding a "media needs to be restored" error. I have had these errors before (am sure almost everyone that actually uses their EX1 and SDHC combo on a regular basis has) and have always been able to recover the media. This time was different.

It says the media needs to be restored, but DOES NOT GIVE ME THE OPTION TO DO SO. I have stuck the card in 2 different PC's and one macbook pro and THE CARD IS NOT EVEN DETECTED.. The card DIED. I lost footage that I will NEVER be able to get back, that PBS PAID me to shoot.. I have been trying for hours and hours with absolutely no luck or progress on the issue.. I haven't resorted to professional media restore companies yet, but may have to.. All programs available do not work at all, as once again, the card is not even detected in the PC. The media reader still works fine in both my camera and the PC, as well as all my other sandisk ultra II's. This was a HUGE mistake. I went the cheap route and paid the price.


The EX1 is an awesome camera. My clients love the footage, it has made me tons of money, given me great experiences, and I have no regrets. BUT, if you are a professional, doing professional shoots, the SDHC adapter combo is SIMPLY NOT WORTH IT, PERIOD. I don't care if 99.999% of the time it works. I fell under that .0001%, and it sucks ass, I just don't want anyone else to have the same fate.

I am personally NEVER going to use the MxR SDHC combo ever again, it's VERY VERY reliable, but (I have over 700 hours logged on my EX1) NOT RELIABLE ENOUGH. I'm sure most of you who are true professionals already exclusively using SxS cards will be like, "told you you so," and that's fine. I deserve it. I just want people to know that the cheap alternative however awesome and cheap it may be, once again, is not the way to go. Don't have the same fate as me..

[Iudex]

This is completely true and must be considered...

But on the other hand, does anybody know if SxS has failed?

[GuyB]

I have seen two reports of SxS card failures on other forums.
I recently had a single Sandisk SDHC card complete failure luckily with unimportant recordings. This is the only recording problem I have had with SDHC. Within this time preriod and tape I had had two faulty tapes. So far SDHC is still twice as reliable for me than tape.
At weddings I record the service and speeches to SxS (I have it anyway, might as well use it...), anything else I have happy to use SDHC. With a nanoFlash running you can have backup copies going anyway.

[vcfilms]

Really sorry to hear that. I can imagine how that feels. It happened to me once after an important paid gig and I was freaking out, fortunately after trying constantly on my card reader to no avail I tried a couple times from inside the camera and eventually got it to work. I'd say 50-60% of the time I shoot SDHC, but any time it's really critical I pop in the SxS only. Not to say I trust the SxS 100% either, I'm sure that can have errors too, just hope to not have that happen. If I get the nano flash (which I hope I can soon) at least I will always have backup footage as well.

[ANewman]

A VERY sobering tale... I've been studying the EX3/EX1 for some time now and have finally made my peace with"rolling shutter" and "IR Contamination" issues. The "slow zoom studdering" on many EX3's is a little worrisome though I tend to always manually zoom... I budgeted for the cheaper SDHC card solution but after reading about lahooza's experience, I'm now thinking that SXS cards will let me sleep at night. Thanks for the posting. I totally depend on the experiences from those on this board and giving feedback on real world deployments of this awesome camera are crucial to me. Sorry you had this problem and hopefully you may find a cure, but your message is clear to me.

[mico]

There have been others who posted here and on the other forum that had the same problem. If I remember correctly someone did get their footage back. So there still might be hope.

Sorry to hear about this, I would be distraught too , but do a search and you may find a solution.

On my side I use only 8 gig sdhc so I don't load too much footage on a single card just in case this scenario happens and swap cards out when I feel like whether the card is full or not . Although I did just buy a 16gig SXS because the price was too good to pass up, makes me feel more secure and I get asked to do alot of slo mo.

[mico]

Heres a thread I found from the other site. Give it a try if it works for you it might be a solution for the rest that might encounter this.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-cinealta/239701-bad-card-recovery-solution.html

[EIREHotspur]

That is indeed the Nightmare Scenario of Video isn't it.

I think your right though......if you are a professional and making decent money then have the best recording media you can.

I personally use K&S but will invest in SxS in the future because what is the point in having a multi thousand price camera and not be 100% confident in the media.

[PerroneFord]

I am terribly sorry this has happened to you. But to be perfectly honest, anyone who's been in this game a while can point to failures with film (and there are a LOT of places film can fail from loading to print), tape, card, whatever.

I have personally not lost any footage with KxS. However, I tend to review my shots while still on-site. If there is something that I absolutely, positively HAVE to have, then I double record in-camera and off-board. Blaming the camera, or the media in this instance just seems silly. There are thousands of photographers all over the world doing photo-journalism with those same SDHC cards.

Failures happen. It sucks. I've lost footage shooting 35mm, shooting Hi8, shooting, and SVHS. I have NEVER lost footage on my FIrestore though I know people who have. I have not lost anything on SxS or KxS, though I know people who have. It's just a matter of time, and I hope to be prepared for it.

Best of luck in recovering your footage.

[monkeyking]

There are a lot of things to worry about in prepping for a job . Eliminating the Russian Roulette variable of MxR/SDHC failure by using SxS or P2 cards helps me sleep better at night.
One less thing to worry about.

I am sorry for your loss and thank you for sharing.

[PerroneFord]

Eliminating the Russian Roulette variable of MxR/SDHC failure by using SxS or P2 cards helps me sleep better at night.
One less thing to worry about.

What are we eliminating? The possibility of failure? Clearly this has been proven false as more than one of the P2/SxS cards have failed. Are we saying we see reduced failures? Maybe so, but it we are recording irreplaceable footage, I'd think the ONLY way to feel secure about it, is by recording in a redundant way and checking both.

But if the idea of recording onto SxS or P2 helps someone sleep better, then by all means, do it.

[GuyB]

PS: Make sure you try "Recovery Fix for Windows". When my SDHC card failed, the ONLY thing I could get to see anything WRT that card was with this program. While any attempt in any other way to access this card resulted in locking up the computer, this program actually recovered the full 16GB of data on the card. Unfortunately for me the data was corrupt in itself, but with a CF card in a similar state I got all my RAW images back bar about 4 that were corrupted.

It is seriously worth a try.

[monkeyking]

"recording onto SxS or P2 helps someone sleep better"

Yes, it works for me. Judging by the number of posts here about MxR/SDHC problems vs. SxS/P2 , I would choose SxS/P2 over MxR/SDHC for Peace of Mind. Although I think your suggestion of adding a Nano Flash unit for redundancy/backup would make me sleep even better.

[PerroneFord]

"recording onto SxS or P2 helps someone sleep better"

Yes, it works for me. Judging by the number of posts here about MxR/SDHC problems vs. SxS/P2 , I would choose SxS/P2 over MxR/SDHC for Peace of Mind. Although I think your suggestion of adding a Nano Flash unit for redundancy/backup would make me sleep even better.

Honestly, if adding a nanoflash, that unit would be my primary, and in itself it can be redundant. That is a TERRIFIC unit, and if I was banking my business on recording, you can bet I'd have one or a FlashXDR.

[jeff9329]

Lahoozaa:

Peronne is right on the target that essentially all the electronic media; SxS, P2, SDHC, etc. are going to experience a failure at some point. Of course some are more robust than others. I have also had miniDV tape failures too that were disasterous. I know how you feel (and my current contract details my data liability).

As far as recovery, it sounds like you have worked over that card quite a bit already, that's bad for a professional recovery effort, but not a total deal breaker. I have submitted one SDHC card in the exact same unreadable condition to a pro recovery service and they were able to recover the data. It cost $1,400USD, but it was a necessary expense in that case, just like yours sounds. I reccomend you establish a relationship immediately with a pro recovery service and send the card in, you will find out very quickly what they can recover.

[basspig]

Having had my first EX1 fail on me within 5 hours of ownership, I feel that I'd be more worried about the camera failing than the SxS media. That said, if you're getting paid to travel internationally, then take no chances on second-best media. Use genuine SxS. At least it's supposedly warranteed against data loss by Sony. That high price must include insurance of data recovery, in the unlikely event you may need it. KxS doesn't carry that insurance, so if you lose any data, you're out of luck.

[PerroneFord]

Having had my first EX1 fail on me within 5 hours of ownership, I feel that I'd be more worried about the camera failing than the SxS media. That said, if you're getting paid to travel internationally, then take no chances on second-best media. Use genuine SxS. At least it's supposedly warranteed against data loss by Sony. That high price must include insurance of data recovery, in the unlikely event you may need it. KxS doesn't carry that insurance, so if you lose any data, you're out of luck.


Honest question here...

Hypothetically, If data got corrupt on both an SxS and a KxS, would you think a data recovery service would have more experience recovering an SxS card or a common SDHC? I'm just curious.

[basspig]

Maybe not, but doesn't Sony garantee the data on SxS cards? I remember it being explained that the high cost of the cards had built into it data recovery services from Sony. Obviously Sony won't cover KxS solutions, but they would cover bona fide SxS cards.

[Carl Marxx]

Then on the other hand, what if you go to a shoot with your Scan disk card and adapter, turn it on and the camera dies; would you say: "I'll never use a Sony camera again?" As they say: "peanut butter happens," and it usually is when you least expect it, and then you don't get any bread either if you know what I mean. - Carl

[Luis Caffesse]

the ONLY way to feel secure about it, is by recording in a redundant way and checking both.

Very true.
As the original poster pointed out - 99.9% success rate isn't enough sometimes.

Best of luck recovering the data - let us know how it turns out.

[Chadfish]

Hoodman RAW cards are the only ones with a perfect track record. They claim no failures in the field. I don't know about that, but RAW cards are built with more care than Sandisk. But yes, I plan on getting 2 32 gig SxS as soon as I can. Keep the adapters for home movies, or as a last resort on a long shoot that runs down all your cards.

[DavidChia]

Sorry to hear this happened to you...:(
Not to be impolite , but this is why I am still using 4 8gig SXS cards instead of cheaper options...

My condolences...

[jeff9329]

... BUT, if you are a professional, doing professional shoots, the SDHC adapter combo is SIMPLY NOT WORTH IT, PERIOD. I don't care if 99.999% of the time it works. I fell under that .0001%, and it sucks ass, I just don't want anyone else to have the same fate.

I am personally NEVER going to use the MxR SDHC combo ever again, it's VERY VERY reliable, but (I have over 700 hours logged on my EX1) NOT RELIABLE ENOUGH. I'm sure most of you who are true professionals already exclusively using SxS cards will be like, "told you you so," and that's fine. I deserve it. I just want people to know that the cheap alternative however awesome and cheap it may be, once again, is not the way to go. Don't have the same fate as me..

I think this is one reason most people do multi camera shoots (and for any high end work, data redundancy) and on non-live events review the footage to make sure a re-shoot is not needed before moving to the next shoot/location. Even without a data loss there is now way to tell what you have until you review the footage on at least a laptop.

One camera will always be an "all your eggs in one basket" scenario whether it be data failure, broken camera, stolen camera, bad/no exposure or whatever, unless you review, confirm & backup what you have while on the shoot. Granted, for live, one time events the only backup is usually multi-camera redundancy because there is no way to re-shoot the event anyway.

[Robert Ruffo]

A Nano Flash recorder would seem to me to be the best way to be safe, and always have 2 copies while recording.

[PerroneFord]

A Nano Flash recorder would seem to me to be the best way to be safe, and always have 2 copies while recording.

A NanoFlash on the EX1 combined with KxS or SxS offers three copies of the data. Redundant CF cards plus the low-bitrate version being recorded in the camera. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If I was making my living from shooting video, especially with live events, there is no WAY I'd shoot with a single camera. But if put in that scenario, I'd certainly be using a Nanoflash or other redundant recording mechanism. For the price, it's really unbeatable.

One thing I would LOVE to see sony do in firmware, is the offer redundant recording in-camera. Insert 2 cards, and the camera writes to both simultaneously. With 32GB cards, that's nearly 2 hours of ininterrupted recording with redundancy. And unlike my current scenario, it would be at 35Mbps instead of having to do HDV like I do now so I can run to card and Firestore.

[EIREHotspur]

A NanoFlash on the EX1 combined with KxS or SxS offers three copies of the data. Redundant CF cards plus the low-bitrate version being recorded in the camera. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If I was making my living from shooting video, especially with live events, there is no WAY I'd shoot with a single camera. But if put in that scenario, I'd certainly be using a Nanoflash or other redundant recording mechanism. For the price, it's really unbeatable.

One thing I would LOVE to see sony do in firmware, is the offer redundant recording in-camera. Insert 2 cards, and the camera writes to both simultaneously. With 32GB cards, that's nearly 2 hours of ininterrupted recording with redundancy. And unlike my current scenario, it would be at 35Mbps instead of having to do HDV like I do now so I can run to card and Firestore.

Thats the one update that is needed for Ex1 and Ex3 cameras....ability to write to both card slots would eliminate fears about media.
I am sure there are some of us who would actually pay for it although why should we.

It is the most commen sense update they should be working on.

[EC Junior]

Thats the one update that is needed for Ex1 and Ex3 cameras....ability to write to both card slots would eliminate fears about media.
I am sure there are some of us who would actually pay for it although why should we.

It is the most commen sense update they should be working on.

I know Sony reads the forums too and probably already thought of redundant recording using the 2 slots already, but I'll make sure on Monday to remind the product manager about this issue.

[PerroneFord]

I know Sony reads the forums too and probably already thought of redundant recording using the 2 slots already, but I'll make sure on Monday to remind the product manager about this issue.

Thank you VERY much. That would put a LOT of owners' minds at ease if we could get that one.

You know the other thing? A definitive in-out on the screen. I would have paid extra to have a preview screen that had a definitive line between what was in and out of the shot. Something as simple as a .85 magnification in the LCD with the out area shaded 50% gray. I was reminded of this yesterday when I had to shoot a 4-up at a press conference table, then shoot 1-shots while they were all seated. Trying to make sure of what was in the shoot (boom mic, adjacent person) was a big guessing game.

[Bassman2003]

Hoodman RAW cards are the only ones with a perfect track record. They claim no failures in the field. I don't know about that, but RAW cards are built with more care than Sandisk. But yes, I plan on getting 2 32 gig SxS as soon as I can. Keep the adapters for home movies, or as a last resort on a long shoot that runs down all your cards.

I had a Hoodman card stop recording with a media error a month ago.

I also have had MxR based failures around card slot switches.

Basically, I am in the same camp is the OP. These secondary recording workarouds via SD cards are not reliable enough.

I just took delivery of a second Nanoflash as this will be my sole recording medium going forward.

The cost of a Nanoflash is the same as a decent amount of SxS and the options are a better investment.

Plus if you move away from the EX in the future or rent a nice camera, you can still have high bitrate recording for whatever you are shooting with.

I see the problem as the SD cards are just hobbled by the camera design. Plain and simple. Sony has a proprietary history and the EX series is no different.

[EIREHotspur]

I had a Hoodman card stop recording with a media error a month ago.

I also have had MxR based failures around card slot switches.

Basically, I am in the same camp is the OP. These secondary recording workarouds via SD cards are not reliable enough.

I just took delivery of a second Nanoflash as this will be my sole recording medium going forward.

The cost of a Nanoflash is the same as a decent amount of SxS and the options are a better investment.

Plus if you move away from the EX in the future or rent a nice camera, you can still have high bitrate recording for whatever you are shooting with.

I see the problem as the SD cards are just hobbled by the camera design. Plain and simple. Sony has a proprietary history and the EX series is no different.

Good points....but it could be worse...we could be stuck with P".

Will be interesting to see how you get on with the nanoflash.
What specs do you get with it?
No media error messages with that so no?

I am all for stumping up money for something that works flawlessly and is futureproof so maybe it is the way to go.

Now of we could just get even higher capacity batteries for the Ex3.

[GuyB]

I don't see why you wouldn't shoot to SDHC as well as the nano. No capture mechanism is perfect and who is to say your CF card is more reliable than your SD card. Record to both and then if one fails, you have the other...

[Bassman2003]

I don't see why you wouldn't shoot to SDHC as well as the nano. No capture mechanism is perfect and who is to say your CF card is more reliable than your SD card. Record to both and then if one fails, you have the other...

Well my concern with ever using the SDHC recording is when you get a "media error" message, the camera sort of goes in lockdown. I don't know if this would interrupt the SDI feed or not. I would have re-create the error and see but if you were in a long form situation this might be a mess.

[Carl Marxx]

Just a note: if you use the fire-wire to a separate recorder, you have the option to do dual recording, the down side is you must use the (sq) or HDV format. I can record up to 4 1/2 hours straight with a M-184 tape on my Sony RM-25u recorder which has a built-in monitor. This is perfect for conventions when you shoot lectures. And as I said, it can be recorded at the same time to on SD cards for editing or backup. As for high quality mode, you must take caution with these memory chip cards as to not bend them and to take care when you insert any card or adapter into the camera. Too, I always allow time when I switch from camera to media or media to camera to allow the electronics in the camera itself to shut down and stabilize. Try turning your home computer off and on rapidly 4 or 5 times and see how well you can find and hold the boot sector. It's possible the booting sector or DIR directory in the SD card got corrupted when you turned the camera on in another location, the video is still there, but the card can't retrieve it. It is always a good practice to format these SD card before you reuse them to allow the sectors to write in sequence and not randomly on recording; the time needed to find a new sector to write on a hard drive slows down the access time and in the case of memory chips, it is limited. Also, always first take a test by shooting 7 sec. of video on a new chip when inserted. and play it back to see the image and hear the sound. There's been many time I've forgotten to change the mic. setting on a the camera in a new shoot, and surprise! -- there's no sound. So always test before you shoot on any media! We are professionals here, and this should be a SOP. Never assume anything, and as the saying goes: to assume is to do nothing more that to make an "ASS (out of) U (and) ME!" -- CARL