Welcome to my Nightmare

[MagicCat]

A rather large project was just handed to me on a Hard Drive. It is for a commercial prodution. The client said the "Just out of Film School" producers she hired could not produce the spot she paid for, so she handed it it to me to complete. With over 50 girls to key out, It did not take me long to find out why they were having such problems...




Believe me folks, this is the GOOD stuff!! The person Rode the zoom button constantly, no lighting, and, and and...


OMG!!! bwwwwaaaaha ha ha ha, sob sob, weep weep. this is a mess a 2 year old drinking grape juice on a white carpet could not compete with!! Please tell me nobody on this forum would do such a job, PLEASE??!!

[Barry_Green]

Wait -- you're supposed to key that out?

Pull the plug right now and demand a reshoot. Seriously.

Good luck...

[wilbah]

there is no way you'll be able to satisfy anyone with that, and you'll give yourself an ulcer trying...

I say, reshoot, without hesitation.

[MagicCat]

Oh! YES!!! this is real!! No kidding. No Reshoot, no nothing. The client is out 500 bucks for this green plastic nightmare and has airtime paid for already,. No refunds on that either.

Im not crazy, I told her I would key 1 or two scenes and have to pull the rest off of DVD's she has had shot over the years. She does not care about quality, but must please 200 parents with a few shots of their girls, or risk dancers withdrwawing from her school. OMG, what a mess.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

If the "greenscreen" and carpet were not so many shades of green Primatte would be able to distinguisg between the green costumes and the background, but not now. Green pom poms would render you screwed under any scenario.

Greenscreen that doesn't roll out to the floor for full body shots, No lighting, Lots of Zooming, Green costumes, Green Pom Poms = reshoot or run for the hills.

No way.

[MagicCat]

I just pulled this footage up. I laughed so hard my eyes were watering and I think I left a puddle under my chair Then it occured to me, this is all the footage there is. HORROR struck.

The photogs actually made a commercial from this mess and then literally yelled at the client for questioning their artistic abilities. Oh, God, I wish I could show the rest of this stuff. I have NEVER seen such bad work in my entire life!! Not to mention thier level of professionalism in dealing with the client.

Enjoy!!

[Barry_Green]

This is actually astonishing.

I mean, it's almost worthy of a "Caption This..." thread.

[David Jimerson]

OK . . . who actually did this? The "just out of film school" crew?

[MagicCat]

This is actually astonishing.

I mean, it's almost worthy of a "Caption This..." thread.


Oh, please, make a sticky, make a sticky!!

"How NOT to key" or something. Moments like this are precious and few. It is deserving.

[MagicCat]

I have an hour and 20 minutes of this garbage. Two 25 year old kids shot this for a past client of mine. They both just graduated from some film school and the little Lucas's conned her into paying them for this.

I will write a complete story sometime. This one is almost too horrific to imagine, it is "Everything you should never do". The caps above represent some of the BEST of the footage.

[Cranky]

Why this is YOUR nightmare? Why you cannot just turn it down saying that this is worthless crap? Even an amateur like me would not shoot green dresses and pom-poms against green screen. This is hilarious!

[ChipG]

LOL :) I'm sorry dude, I'm not laughing at you but I can picture a key with the girls missing body parts and pom poms. Ha ha ha ha

Looks like a job for Digital Domain

[MagicCat]

Just a few more shots, Im simply in shock. It just keeps getting worse as I scroll down the timeline.


This is why kids should intern with an established company or pro, before they are allowed to set out on their own. Even then, This is just unbelievable.

[MagicCat]

I would not have posted this if I thought it was NOT something folks should see. I take no offence at all. Beleive me you, i have had my laughs. This was too much to keep al to myself.

Again, Enjoy!!

[MagicCat]

Why this is YOUR nightmare? Why you cannot just turn it down saying that this is worthless crap? Even an amateur like me would not shoot green dresses and pom-poms against green screen. This is hilarious!


The client is a VERY good client, I would never accept stuff like this normally. In the past we shot all her stuff. This time she tried to cheesball the price by hiring these two Idiots. I think she has learned her lesson. Consider it a mercinary editing job. If she does not get these girls on TV, she is in much more trouble than I. There are no misconceptions going on with my client, she knows full well how bad this may be.


This one is all about quantity, not quality. Several 2 second low-res Pic in pic shots with an Awful lot of colored moving jumpback/backgrounds should keep this tolerable. Not to mention, I have some clean stuff to pull from too. Stuff THEY didnt shoot.

[NC17z]

Just a quick Observation,... These two fella's that shot this, that's an HVX200 right? They're possibly DVXUSER Members and may see this thread... Good grief...

Please someone chime in here if I'm too off base however, I would like give you a suggestion, it may or may not be possible to salvage more than you think.

Mocha, Motor, Mokey, over at http://www.imagineersystems.com/
These plugins might help in the right hands.
I've seen some amazing stuff with these tools...

[ChipG]

Just a quick Observation,... These two fella's that shot this, that's an HVX200 right? They're possibly DVXUSER Members and may see this thread... Good grief...

Please someone chime in here if I'm too off base however, I would like give you a suggestion, it may or may not be possible to salvage more than you think.

Mocha, Motor, Mokey, over at http://www.imagineersystems.com/
These plugins might help in the right hands.
I've seen some amazing stuff with these tools...

If they see this thread it'll be the best thing that ever happened to them.

[MagicCat]

Just a quick Observation,... These two fella's that shot this, that's an HVX200 right? They're possibly DVXUSER Members and may see this thread... Good grief...

Please someone chime in here if I'm too off base however, I would like give you a suggestion, it may or may not be possible to salvage more than you think.

I agree with you deeply and have always remained exteremely professonal both in private and public. In fact, in 30 years, This is probably a first for me to post something of this nature. Beleive me, I have not gotten into half of this here, and never will. It is bad, really bad. These two are not getting half the spanking they have rightfully earned. And for what it is worth, Im not a mean person, I cant swat a fly without feelign guilty.

I will say this, One of the persons has gone MIA. There is a TON of bought-and-paid-for footage missing from the "Main" camera. I think it is safe to say, there are others who would warmly welcome his re-surfacing

[Reflex Films]

re story board the spot - go for a behind the scenes parody / doco concept- you might be able to dance around the problem with a new concept / gag behind the spot.

like the cheap video production company ad parodies you can watch on youtube. or borat / fashionista style gags.

By the way - That is Awesomely lit footage! Too funny

[David Jimerson]

Well, you get what you pay for. Ouch.

[Luis Caffesse]

I'm.... speechless

[pmark23]

The green costume and pom-poms against the greenscreen is genius. Have you checked for hidden cameras on you?

[cmb_1455]

I'm kind of wondering what film school they went to.

As a filmmaker who has recently graduated, I would be embarassed if these guys were my classmates. Ouch.

[AdamT]

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff189/adamtro/greenscreen.jpg

[Gabriel Berube]

Wow... Just... Wow...
Must be one hell of a customer you got if you're willing to tamper with that kind of footage! I wouldn't touch that stuff with a 10-foot pole...

[Phenixone]

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx348/phenixfilm/DAncer2copy.jpg
F A I L !
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx348/phenixfilm/dancer3copy.jpg
F A I L !
PS : this just to have fun with photoshop ! this NOT what I normally do ! (just to make sure everyone gets it)

[capt chuck]

Given what you've said so far:

- reshoot is out
- it's a good client who you would like to help if possible
- quantity over quality (as if quality at this point was even possible)

And the laws of physics

- the footage is unkeyable

I think that leaves you two options

- Do the best you can with edits and deliver against the original green background
- spend the rest of your youth manually rotoscoping

or the third option, no matter how good the client you cannot make gold from lead and this is lead. The client may initially blame you, but there is a limit to what you can do despite your desire to help..... RUN AWAY!

[John Caballero]

Oh, film school.... Thousands of hard earn dollars down the toilet, as usual. Good luck with that footage.

[Amr Rahmy]

one thing, if you help the client in a mess, you might force him to make you the go to guy from now on no matter how much you charge.

the sad thing, i see worse footage on weekly bases.

it would cost less to re-shoot(it's not like it was live or a re-shoot cannot be arranged), and actually make something the school could be proud of.

you would have to go frame by frame to do it. I'm guessing you could intern and give credit to maybe 5 junior colorist(with photoshop experience) looking to make a color reel, dividing the work. it's a one day job, it's not a disaster by any means.

[wgzn]

about the only logical thing i can see to do is:

do keyframed oval masks around each kid and let whatever background your client had intended show behind the ovals (parents probably wouldnt know that wasnt the plan all along)

[vortex677]

If i were u I tell them to change their strategy. Tell them you can put some icons up and titles plus nice music and maybe some cheesy fireworks. Believe me I have worked with worse. When I explained it to them they understood and let me do what I wanted to do. The following year they hired me to shoot the whole damn thing and everything came out spectacular. To our eyes it would have looked so so but to theirs it looked like magic lol. Think of this as ur chance to shine and make biz. But never even try to key or mask out anybody it would take u forever and give u anxiety attacks lol. Also they will never appreciate it. They would think it is easy to do and that the filming crew did an awesome job.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Hulk Green Screen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnbkqLEiElI

[MagicCat]

WOW!! It seems this is almost a viral thread!! Thanks for all the suggestions here.

You know, in thirteen years of operation, I think I can go back to about 95% of my clients for a reference or testimonial. Both personal and professional. Im not mentioning this to boast in any way so pleeeeaase, dont read into that statement too deeply. I mention it because, taking on this job and others like it over the years, is how we have been able to achieve that status. I firmly believe that sometimes you just have to pay it forward.

In all seriousness: As long as the Client has been made fully aware of the outcome, and there are no surprises, we ususally have good luck pleasing them in the end. It takes a lot of talking and listening to accomplish that, but, I would NEVER take on something with the client expecting any miracles.

That being said, I picked through the footage and have found about a half dozen clips ranging in length from 1.5 to 3 seconds each. Some of these that I posted here were simply out of the question due to the talent wearing key-able clothing. It will come out like a low budget, disposable, short run local commercial. The client feels that is acceptable, so the trick will be managing the rims of the keyed talent, so it does not show so much. Thank GOD, these boneheads shot this in 1080. I can shrink many of the keyed elements into Pic-in-Pic style frames, load that with colorful-motion backgrounds, and i hope by the time someone watches it, they wont even know what just happened. This thing may only run 100 times over the course of a few weeks. It is also on a 24hr rotator so for all I know, the cable company will pile them up at 2am-7am in between re-runs of seinfeld.

The thing that angers me as a business owner is not just the sloppiness of this shoot, but the way the client was treated. These persons Yelled at them for everything from questioning their artistic abilities, to their turning the wrong way on the freeway after the shoot and ending up in NY instead of Cleveland. Im sickened by this stuff and it gives the industry a very very bad name. What these two did, IMHO, effects everyone of us who have to put dinner on our tables each night, or support other employees. I WILL do just about anything I can, to prevent that from happening, or prevent a client from walking away from TV advertising due to a rude experience. I have seen that happen a million times, and 90 percent of those times, it could have been corrected and the client could have been saved for me, or my peers in the industry.

IMHO, a few good deeds for a client, can and will come back to you 100fold. Maybe not tomorrow, but, it does come back. There are a million people that would walk away from something like this, I cannot blame them. On the other hand, this client will talk about what we did for her for many years to come. That makes me happy, currently the workload isnt compramising anything we have in-house and Im going to learn something new. Ohhh, Man, Im sure that is an understatement.

Red Giant Primate Keyer Pro in AE7 has been working well for me, this is sincerely putting that plug-in to the test. So far, Im pleased.


Get this: In the ongoing SAGA, you know these two told me it was the CLIENTS FAULT for this mess?! They blamed her for asking them to green screen something, and furthermore, let her pick up some plastic table clothes to use for the screen. I just about fell out of my chair!!! They also blamed her for dressing the girls in green, refused to compensate her for her losses, and the commercial they DID make from this was two weeks past airtime startup, aaaannnd, The client actually went to the trouble of making up a complete storyboard for the project. It was scripted and all laid out for them. The completely strayed from it. (I must admit, for a client with little experience in production, her storyboarding was not too shabby either!) When she questioned why they did not produce the spot she wanted, one of em told her straight up: "Your Idea sucked, mine was much better" They went off on her when she did not like the spot they made, I quote: "I cannot believe you dont like this, NObody has EVER been critical of my work before?!" I think that last statement speaks for itself.

There are so many things wrong with this, and on so many levels, it isnt funny. However, this is how many kids operate these days, there is Little or NO accountability. (Please, nobody take offence to that here, It is just that out of every 65 interns we see, about 5 have what it takes, and about half of those will be able to call us one day from the studios of the History Channel, NBC, CBS, or a good production facility in general, ETC telling us of how they succeeded. It is a numerical fact, not an opinion) IMHO, some of this can also be blamed on the schools for not preparing these kids properly.

This isnt the first time Ive seen this and Im sure it wont be the last.


David

[Amr Rahmy]

your talking from the client perspective, reality might be different.

the client was trying to do something as cheap as possible, so to an extent you might imagine the client painting a really small picture to the two guys to be able to set a very low price then trying to screw them over with something they did not agree upon. if you don't set an hour or day rate, this will happen. you have been warned. and they were trying to do something cheaper then you would offer them, no matter what that would be.

changing the agreement(whatever that may be - something as simple as asking for a green-screen after they arrived on set, or showing the costumes after getting the green-screen, the client telling them about the storyboard on the shoot day, not abiding to any additional costs(if that happened in that manner and they chose to continue with the shoot and said "f%$# it, will do it")), they are desperate but you can't blame them either, if the client doesn't care, why should the crew.

trying to screw people is a dangerous business, it can back fire.

[rocketvp]

In the past, I have recieved "unusable" footage. In todays world of video, anything goes! Think out of the box... why can't you use this footage? Being in the industry for nearly 20 years now (has it been that long...whew getting old), I often got frustrated with people in the business saying you can't do this or that... why not? We are creative professionals and times have changed. Of course this maybe wouldn't work for a natioinal McDonalds commercial, where they would want a perfect key, but I would attempt it. It may enter into the surreal category, but if NO other options are at hand, you take what you have and make it work. I know this isn't the "professional" rule, but it would get the job done. I say throw in the distort plugin, and heck...any ole key at this point (luma, chroma) and have some 60's psychedelic fun! Tell them it's "Art" :)

[sigepwriter]

Lol wow those two make people who graduated from film school look bad... mutlicolored green screen... green costumes/pom poms, full body shots in carpeted area...

Oh well, I like the idea someone had about making it look like a behind the scenes video, and hamming it up... better than nothing.

[DanBell]

I would take the footage and turn it into something cheesy. I wouldn't try to key out anything - it's going to be even more embarrassing. So go with the bad and turn it into something great. Perhaps add a main character who created "the footage of the century" and turn it into a comedic thing. Funny sells. Crap doesn't. This is what I would do.

[Nick Walters]

This is just priceless.....as to the crew perhaps being forced into this?? I doubt it. I see usable materials in some of these shots. The crew could have ditched the green pom-poms and only used the blue ones....the green shirts under the purple outfits could have been covered in some way...the green outfits could have been just altogether ditched...perhaps trading out to those purple outfits....if nothing else the green outfits could have been used without a green screen....I see and find interesting spots to film constantly, and there's no reason these guys couldn't have.

This was just done in all the wrong ways.

Ditching the storyboard?!! This just isn't what one does. I could care less who you are...you decide major changes before you shoot, and get new storyboards completed...once you're on set the client should know and understand what is going to come out the other end.....I'm not saying a little experimentation and a little deviation isn't possible, cause hell I strive for those moments when amazing ideas, angles, and perspectives come about....but you gotta have a plan and stick to it. Hell I am constantly looking at the storyboards, cause to be quite honest I get into an odd mindset while filming and need that constant refresher of what comes next.

[J.R. Hudson]

This is actually astonishing.

I mean, it's almost worthy of a "Caption This..." thread.

:grin:

This made my morning. My life isn't as bad as I thought. :beer:

[Steve Laramie]

that job would make me physically sick.

[robmneilson]

I kinda hope that the guys who shot this footage find this thread. I would love to hear their opinions!

[Tom 4]

Looks to me like the "Client" got what she wanted, (a cheap job) and now wants someone else to "pick up the pieces" (cheap). I've seen this happen many times, when a client walks thru my door and asks "can you fix this we had it shot by this other guy".
Most times I send them straight back to that guy, if that's not possible, then I advise they should "throw it", and get on with thier lives "a lesson well learnt".
You could just do your best with what you have and dump a vignette and blurs across the vision , but in the end your name will be on a crappy product, i'd stay away from it.

As far as the words "you get what you pay for", I've heard some producers use this line to charge more and still supply a lesser than "Pro" product. I advise my clients to get samples / references prior to the shoot stage.

Cheers
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au

[Blackout]

For $500 paid to 2 'film makers' plus all the dancers, this woman got more than she paid for I say.

[Ted Spencer]

This would appear to be an object lesson (for the client) in what happens when you pick the wrong pair from (as the old saying goes) "fast, cheap, good - you can have any two".

[Jarek Zabczynski]

Epic thread! :D

[saturnin]

i woudlnt touch that footage with a 10 foot pole.. lol...

[MirtCGahan]

Andrew Kramer could pull a clean key from that with imovie.

[Derrick_SA]

Andrew Kramer could pull a clean key from that with imovie.

he he he he!

- Derrick

[wgzn]

im going to send clients here when the balk at my $1750 minimum chromakey day price...

[Barry_Green]

Or you could just send 'em here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC0sR5_NTFo

[RightMind]

Fred and Sharon Rock!!!!

[monday1313]

Fred and Sharon say:

"a video movie could improve your life"

indeed. indeed...


some of the comments on youtube are hysterical....

Sharon is dressed like an extra from Jabba's palace in Return of the Jedi

[Carlos Corral]

BAHHAHAHAHAH FRED AND SHARON! This is work is genius!

[Tom 4]

Or you could just send 'em here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC0sR5_NTFo

Oh My God ! , could this only happen in the land of "hope and opportunity".

I suppose it proves the old saying, "Little knowledge is dangerous."

I'm Still laughing at Sharon's style.

Tom K
"Happily Downunder"
olinevideo.com.au

[Barry_Green]

could this only happen in the land of "hope and opportunity".
Well, if by that you mean "America", no... if I'm not mistaken, they're Canadian. :)

[jpsheets]

Or you could just send 'em here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC0sR5_NTFo


Holy crap that's funny! It's almost too bad to be believed.

[DM_rider]

This thread is an emotional roller coaster. I've felt anger, severe depression, and uncontrollable laughter. This thread has it all and then some.

[Phenixone]

This is the thread that I read to remind me that there can always be worse in life. A good lesson of philosophy, and a video geek joke !

[Erik Olson]

Just... AWESOME.

[Cranky]

Fred and Sharon are so good I don't think they are for real.

[Tom 4]

Well, if by that you mean "America", no... if I'm not mistaken, they're Canadian. :)
Hi Barry,
If my Geography is right, isn't Canada very close to America ?.

Even our own like "croc dundee" could not match Fred & Sharon's unique style.

This whole thread is a Crack-up.

Cheers & "Still Laughing downunder"
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au

[Gabriel Berube]

Wow, I didn't know we had such competition up here in Canada!
Damn you Fred and Sharon!

Barry, you just made my day :-)

[BrandonTodd]

If you really want to laugh, go to fred and sharons website and look at the price list!!!

[Ted Spencer]

Sharon's on-camera ability is quite notable. For its non existence...

[MagicCat]

Thanks for this Barry, I feel somewhat, ummm, "Comforted"

I was in a band once, in my mid 20's We were very very bad and had no right opertating instruments in a musical manner. We invited a buddy over to come hear us. After listening to several songs we asked him what he thought. (you really have to hear it first hand to get the full punch) but

He said, "Hey man! You guys don't suck THAT bad, at ALL!"

I tried to figure out for years how to turn that statement into something I could say to my girlfriends when they ask if they looked fat. It was the perfect "Its Pat" answer that leaves you both encouraged and totally deflated. I think it applies here.


BTW, I guess I started something with this thread, I hope folks remain kind to newB's. I really tried to help the one person who shot all that horrible footage. I simply think he has issues that go beyond our profession. Thankful one second for the advice, and would turn on me the next.

The edit came out "Acceptable" There was a posting on this thread several pages back. It is unfortunate but true. You can make ANYTHING acceptable for air these days. You just have to think outside the box. Many moons ago we took this approach with bad wedding footage. Some may remember the Old Panny AG450 camcorders, and what they would do when the lights were turned down in a reception.

We took the same approach with this. I will put it up on YT with the Clients permission and post a link here.

Dave

[stuckfootage]

Too bad they didn't have green makeup and wigs.

[MagicCat]

As far as the words "you get what you pay for", I've heard some producers use this line to charge more and still supply a lesser than "Pro" product. I advise my clients to get samples / references prior to the shoot stage.

Nothing turns my stomach more, than to hear someone say, "You get what you pay for" when things didn't go right after a production. In my entire career doing this, 85 percent of all problems and discrepancies result from one of the following:

Assumptions from both parties involved,
a lack of educating the client to your needs as they pertain to doing what it is they are hiring you to do,
good communications
and most importantly, good listening skills on your part.

If you have done your job communicating and spending time with the client in advance, then that horrible clich'e term should be re-phrased. You gave the CLIENT everything THEY paid for on a silver platter". You should be able to answer that with 100 percent confidence and the client should be eager to give you a reference, both personal and professional, without hesitation any time you want one. Period.

IMHO, Anything short of that is a Cop-out for lazy, greedy, people with enormous Egos and no compassion or respect for the people who pay them.

Most problems can be avoided with honest, straight forward listening and communicating. This is why I was not worried about taking this fix on. The spot is done, it is "Acceptable" and the client was absolutely thrilled with the end product. Was it worth the 500 dollars in keying headaches, processing nightmares, ETC ETC to correct it? That all depends on what you value. The 500 dollars for the job, or the possibility of the next 5 jobs.

As a result, I just picked up 3 more jobs today because I treated this client fairly and helped her. Those jobs came from referrals from her, not her directly. Future jobs from the client are now as guaranteed as they will get when she is ready to do more for her own biz.

My name IS on this sub-standard commercial, but not for the production value, it is for the service she was given. My bank only cares if the money is green, and in there legally, nothing more. Im not one to freak out when things dont look like they were done on a million dollar budget or even a thousand dollar budget. I'm concerned if the commercial will get the returns she needs, and be effective. That is what pays my bills today, and will continue to pay them tomorrow. I have other high end projects I can display to the public if I am concerned about having a high end production in my companies portfolio.



A little good will can go a long way. After all, content is king in everything. Movies, real life, and marriage.

This is just my opinion.

David

[MagicCat]

Well, to complete this thread, here is the finished piece.

After I actually processed all the footage from HDV to DVCProHD, upconverted all the DVD footage, I was able to sit down and start editing. As far as keying is concerned, it isnt great, but came out MUCH better than anticipated. Thank god for Primatte Keyer Pro!

Even a bigger problem arose after I started into this, that was the simple fact that the person who shot this, was riding the zoom button and did much of it hand-held. In over an hour and 10 minutes of footage, there were no shots that lasted longer than 4 seconds without being adjusted, moved, dutch angle'd, auto iris'd, Auto Focus'ed ETC. It was insane. ADD of the right hand on Steroids!! So, there was a dancing shot that had to be reversed, forwarded and reversed to form a clip long enough, to be usable. Amazingly, all the shots here are all there was from front to back of each clip, there were no more usable frames per clip, that is where some creativity had to come in.

That proved to be the most difficult part of this. In all, I turned the piece in about 15 editing hours. Another 15 went into processing from Mac, to a PC quicklime, to DVCProHD. I don't currently have any macs so this was an experience in itself. My buddy did the transfers to a format Premiere could use. I re-coded those to DVCProHD for the color sampling retention and more importantly, processing speed.

There were some guidelines on this I had to stick to in the layout of this, it was not total free-form, including the VO and music selection had already been done. I used lots of Stock Digital juice stuff and a few tricks of my own to keep it moving. In all, IMHO, it turned out "OK" under the time frame and footage I had available to me. The client was thrilled to pieces and it is now running on local cable.

Im not going to leave this up on our you tube channel for long. I thought I might submit the link here for a short period of time, for a thread finale.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMw8cw8bAMc

[Voytech]

Not too shabby. It still looks better than some cable tv ads I see.

[Everts]

Great fixer upper Magic cat.
After seeing the finished product . You wonder why they needed green screen in the first place .

[Carlos Corral]

Wow MagicCat! The commercial isn't too bad at all. Nice save!

[monday1313]

it's good, but it lacks the unadulterated panache that Fred and Sharon bring to the screen...

:)

seriously...nice save...

[Jonathan Levin]

Magic Cat,

These are bizarre!

Here's a thought. How about turning this lemon into lemonade by doing some sort of effect on the film, and then in editing, with some skillfully placed photographs in a NLE timeline, if any exist, and some royalty free music.

Something using Photoshop CS4's video capabilities might do it.

I'd just look at this project at this point of how to just make something visually interesting with some sound, maybe titles.

Initiating your original intent doesn't seem feasible. But let your "client" know your intentions.

Just my thought.

Jonathan

[Jonathan Levin]

Actually, had I have read the seven other pages of this thread what I wrote above would have been worded differently.

Nice job!

Jonathan

[Cranky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlqAsLxxtYM

[Jason_Boone]

Yeah it is good, but definitely not Fred and Sharon skill level.

[MagicCat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlqAsLxxtYM


Sniffle, sniffle, sob, sob, Bwwwaaa haaa ha haaa! snort, snort. Sing it kermie! Bring it home buddy, you know what Im talkin bout, Sing it!


Thanks for this.

[Zeakio]

Really impressed with how you saved this commercial... I was feeling really bad for you when I started reading this thread the other day, but it looks like you came through for the client and ultimately took on a job many of us would never touch with a 30 foot pole!

Great work man!

[Everts]

can someone post a link to Frank and Sharon skill level ...........please ?

[MagicCat]

Really impressed with how you saved this commercial... I was feeling really bad for you when I started reading this thread the other day, but it looks like you came through for the client and ultimately took on a job many of us would never touch with a 30 foot pole!

Great work man!

Thanks Man. I appreciate that more than you know.

The one thing that I noticed throughout this thread is that very few would take on a job like this. But more importantly is, the reasons they wouldnt. They were afraid of blow-back in the end, not the actual work it would take to make something up that the client would accept. That is commendable that so many could see a do-able product through the smoke of challenges.

Therefore, the heart of the problem it seems, was really, a fear! A fear based on communications, or actually a lack thereof, with the client which would result in a catastrophic endeavor financially, as well as reputation damaging.

This most certainly would have been the case for me if I had not spent some time with my customer, being honest, empathizing with her crude experience and then lowering her expectations for a final product in pre-production, knowing full well I could probably exceed them in the end, making her happy, very happy. Worse case scenario would have been what she expected based on those conversations, a No Go and complete loss. Because I set her up to anticipate a worse case situation, which WAS likely, I also took all responsability off of myself and company. It was a win win for me, and the client.

I have been through this type of situation many times. 95% of the time the reaction from my peers at the onset, is the same. RUN!!! However, I almost always come out on top and gain a loyal client. (I wont pull the wool over your eyes, there have been a few cases where I did NOT come out smelling like a rose, but they are few and far between) Im sure there are others here that, have, and WILL do this for their customers too. Hat off to them!!


If you can convince the client you are really there for them, and will do everything possible for their best interests, any result, good or bad, will be a win-win situation for you and them. It is all about setting the expectations, remaining honest and fair to both yourself and the customer. However, I believe, you must be sincere in your intentions or it will end up as many here feared. An avoidable mess.

I Don't mean to preach, but, wanted to use myself as an example. to show that it CAN be done and you CAN recover a client that has gone astray without fears. Not to mention, you may just help change the opinion of someone who may have walked away from video production, permanently. Yes, it is true, she set herself up for this, but, in the end, feeling guilty or blametossing doesnt matter when one more dollar walks away from our industry unnecessarily. That is a win-win for all of us in the industry.

We try to keep on the forefront of our minds with every new project and customer. That, much of what a client remembers about a project or company, is the Experience, not the actual video or quality thereof. It is easy to get caught up in the rigors and stresses of production and start treating the person in front of the lens like a piece of meat or another object for artistic framing. We try very hard to step back from what we are doing all the time and consciously force ourselves to take a mental inventory of what we are doing and how we are acting. If we dont, I.m confident I will hear it from the customer eventually.

Pay it forward.

David Walker

[Gary Huff]

Thanks Man. I appreciate that more than you know.
The one thing that I noticed throughout this thread is that very few would take on a job like this. But more importantly is, the reasons they wouldn't. They were afraid of blow-back in the end, not the actual work it would take to make something up that the client would accept. That is commendable that so many could see a do-able product through the smoke of challenges.


MagicCat, first off, great job on pulling that project through.

I think that most people approached this from the idea that this would have been a first-time client for them. You had an ace up your sleeve, i.e. you had worked with this client before and had footage from those shoots to use for the commercial.

Had you not had any previous experience/footage from this client, and only had the footage that she had given you (with no time for reshoots), the result would have been quite different, and I think that is the situation from which most of the comments on this thread have stemmed from.

[newacepro]

Wow, honestly I don't know what I would've done... You seem to have pulled it off the best anyone really could with that peace of sh*t green screen (if you can even call it that)
I want to know where these wankers went to film school

[Michael T]

MagicCat you did a great job of saving your client from a failure and turned it into a decent commercial. Lets hope that they have the moxy to call you first from now on.

I had to edit a video for a website for a friend of mine that deals with inventors and this home made video has to be the worst of all time. He shoots himself at the kitchen table and the phone rings and he answers it and leaves it in the video and it was over a minute long.

Now thats funny.

[Angelshare1]

What is it with all this pussiness? What if Neil Armstrong decided “I don’t feel like walking on the moon, let’s just fly over Georgia and see what it looks like from 10,000 feet”? What if Lincoln decided he didn’t want to get his hands dirty in a little war? What if Ike decided not to cross the channel because it looked rainy and he didn’t think the French really deserved rescuing?

This is America, we can do anything. That’s what our forefathers founded this country on. You don’t use “can’t” when being a film maker. There is no “can’t” in this business. Nothing is impossible. You press on, you keep keying and never give up. Now get out there and give us a finished product that would make Lieutenant Dan wet his pants.

[Gary Huff]

While I understand the sentiment, there are things that are "impossible" in this business (after all, Kennedy promised to get to the moon before the decade was out, not by next Tuesday). A lot of things are less impossible when you have money and/or time to throw at a project, but Magic Cat had an ace up his sleeve: namely that he had lots of footage from previous projects. If you watched what he came up with, there are only two shots from that entire shoot (that I remember). In another situation, where no previous footage existed, it would be quite the chore to make a commercial that wasn't completely laughable.

[pmark23]

Time spent pussying around with bad footage is time NOT spent on a paying project. That's the concern most of us face when these types of projects come up.

And even worse, no matter how much time you spend on it you can never use it on your reel, no matter how much you salvage it because it will always look a bit off and the last thing a potential client wants to hear is an excuse like, "You should have seen what the original footage looked like!"

[dangerd]

You did a great job fixing up that horrible crap that the 2 "film school" guys ruined for your client. I hope that the client has learned a lesson from this and calls you first next time.

Although things turned out good for you this time because of the extra footage you shot for the client previously, you should sit the client down before the next shoot and explain to them how to do it right and what it actually will cost them.

If after this experience they don't see the value in doing it the right way, because it cost too much, than the client is not worth the $16 an hour you earned on this nightmare.

If they are willing to do things the correct way from here on out then you have a good client who will be a loyal customer for life. I would say you earned it.

[filmguy24p]

Wierd idea - if budget and rendering were no object (ha!) - forget the "green screen" in the camera originals, just animate some match-move FPOs of the dancers in Maya or even in a consumer 3D product, and then generate your alpha channel from those animations to mask your camera footage of the real dancers.

NO... WAIT... you were looking for possible. This thread sort-of blurred the definition of "possible" in my head for a few seconds. Had a brief lapse into Opposite World.

Sorry.

I'm all better now.

Really.

[Gary Huff]

I'd like to add on to that point (if I'm reading the post above me correctly). Sure, you can "fix" anything, but time and expertise are two factors. I'm sure there are plenty of terrific editors here who don't have the skills to use Maya or 3D Studio Max, or who even have the money to purchase them to begin with. It's not that it can't be done, it's that you, in particular, don't have the required skill set to fix a particular problem, while otherwise you're a top editor. Would you spend $10,000 to fix the footage, or just reshoot it? Instead, you have $500 and tell the editor "no reshoots". Choices are limited. For a client who made such a boneheaded move in the first place (and insultingly wanted to skimp on cost after Magic Cat has apparently delivered fine products beforehand), I don't doubt most of us here aren't going to run ourselves into exhaustion trying to fix crappy footage from a client who should have known better in the first place.

And once you start tossing the idea that "nothing is impossible to fix" around, you start giving clients that idea, which is a bad thing.

[puredrifting]

Nice work, you salvaged more than I could have. You did yourself proud.

Dan

[Nick Walters]

This isn't a working product yet, but it looks like they're working on making the tech into an AE plug-in:
http://juew.org/projects/SnapCut/snapcut.htm
I've read a few different papers from the folks that all go to U Wash and they got some cool stuff....and this one could solve horrible keys like this.

[Voytech]

Impressive. I wonder how far they are from releasing it.

[Nick Walters]

From what I've read it appears as if it may get released either as a part of, or as an addition to CS5.

[Captain Pierce]

Some may remember the Old Panny AG450 camcorders, and what they would do when the lights were turned down in a reception.

Remember them? Hell, my boss still thinks people will pay to rent them... :huh: