Should I replace my HVX?

[livelikeriley]

Hi everyone, I haven't been on this forum much lately (and haven't been filming much personally either...but that's another story) - Today I saw the Philip Bloom footage using the 7D and it blew me away...currently I have an HVX200 with a letus extreme 35 adapter - but after seeing this footage I'm wondering if I should sell the HVX and buy a 7D...

I know, the HVX is a wonderful camera and can probably do a million more things than this camera can...but in general I only use the camera for small, personal film projects and when (if) I'm ever hired to do a professional shoot they'll usually provide their own camera...so my question is this...would that be the dumbest mistake ever? What would I really use that might be valuable to me in the tradeoff?

Sorry to sound so newb about this, but I've never considered using an SLR as my main movie camera and so the whole idea of it is foreign to me (i.e. I'm not even sure what flavor of HD codec this is...much research to do indeed, but some general guidelines would be great!)

Thanks,
Mark.

[robmneilson]

I'd say that you may want to ditch the Letus, but by no means sell the HVX. I end up using the HVX on so many jobs where it just isn't worth using the adapter, or having to record sound separately.

Keep the HVX as a workhorse for jobs, and the 7D for the stuff you would have ended up using the adapter for.

[Richard J. Johnson]

I agree here. I say keep the HVX dump the Extreme. I have the same setup and that is what makes the most sense for me. Not having the ODB around is just not going to happen for me. I still love the HVX. someone will buy the LEX and that's less you need to spend on the 7D.

[livelikeriley]

I should clarify that I don't have the cash on hand to invest in the 7D and GOOD lenses (the ones I use with the letus are crap) without selling the HVX and letus - I'm in LOVE with the idea of being able to get the "film look" of shallow dof natively with 7D without all the nonsense of setting up adapters etc. -- I also love shooting on CF cards since I still only have one 8gb P2 because they're so expensive!

I guess I'm looking for things like ease of workflow (i.e. can I cut this stuff in FCP or Avid as easy as DVCPROHD?) and quality of the final image - that bloom footage blew me away, but it's mostly due to the cinematographer not the camera ;) -- So I'm curious how well the image itself compares to the HVX...variable frame rates etc. are nice, but I could really care less in the end...the 12 min. clip limit is annoying for interviews if I do much doc. work, but I rarely do...mostly narrative short films where no shot is ever going to last 12 mins.

[SteveCharles]

Add one more suggestion to sell the Letus and keep the HVX.

I sold my HVX to get an 5D but I would rather have kept it if I could have afforded both. The HVX is a good all around workhorse especially when shooting miniDV. If you have paying work coming in, selling off the Letus should give you enough money or close enough for the 7D when it becomes available. Now you can do a two camera shoot that comes close to matching each other if you are careful (and add noise to the 5D footage :)). Then the paying work you pick up with your marketing skills and newly acquired video equipment should slowly help you create a good lens collection.

Good luck!

[Justyn]

The one other reason to not sell your HVX is that you probably won't get too much for it now. Especially with the 170 and the 150 on the market. I sold the HVX after buying the 150 because I just like the workflow and the ergonomics of the 150. To me... I'm thinking of buying something soon but I wouldnt' sell the 150. It has it's place and its such a joy to shoot.

I think that also the Letus might not have as much appeal as I'm sure that others are unloading there's now.

[Nik Manning]

sell sell sell. You said you don't use it that much. I am sure you would use the Canon 7D more just because of the size and ease of use.

[livelikeriley]

Thanks for all the replies...I'm leaning towards selling just the letus and picking up the 35mm - but I just want to confirm two things before I go in and prop down a pre-order:

1) I can edit this footage easily in FCP or Avid (what codec is it?)

2) Can someone explain the 35mm sensor to me - I love the idea of native shallow DOF, but I've been reading on forum posts about lenses that a 35mm turns into a circa 50mm etc. on this camera...why?...and what does that portend for buying lenses?

Thanks!

[daveswan]

The codec is H264 wrapped as QT. Avid can import this as the DNxHD flavour of your choice.
The 7D sesor is smaller than the FF sensor of the 5DII, so the field of view is smaller. A 35mm lens doesn't "turn into" anything, but the field of view is similar to that of a 56 mm on a 5DII (35 x 1.6) .
HTH,
Dave

[KeithAndrews.TV]

You'll have to do some searching on this forum for some of those answers. Also keep in mind that the DoF that you will get with the 7D will not match what you may be used to with the Letus Extreme. It would be similar to comparing a full frame chip to an APS-C chip.

[filmmaker's gang]

Should I replace my HVX?

yes.
hey me got to post before barry!

[jls4]

The question is basically this: Are you a Filmmaker? Or are you a Videographer? That's the question you must ask yourself. I had to make up in my mind what I was 2 years ago. I'm a filmmaker and getting "jobs" for videography work (while I may miss the money) is not as importaint anymore to me as getting the look I want. (no offense to those who prefer video work) So I'll be selling off some equipment soon. ;-)

[Tracey Lee]

I'd say that you may want to ditch the Letus, but by no means sell the HVX. I end up using the HVX on so many jobs where it just isn't worth using the adapter, or having to record sound separately.

Keep the HVX as a workhorse for jobs, and the 7D for the stuff you would have ended up using the adapter for.

I agree, from my experience, I have found that I still use my xha1 for a lot of things that require long shoots but that I use the 5D (the 7D soon) for things I used to use an adapter for.

[alexdias]

Keep it. It'll be useful in certain situations and at this point you'll not make a lot of $ from it.
With time you'll probably find your way with the 7D (or other equivalent piece of gear) and you'll not need anything else. Then the HVX can be sold.
If you have 35mm adaptors try to get rid of these ASAP.

[ripupthehwy]

Come on guys! What about the cmos chips and the rolling shutter problems associated with it that we all squawked about when panasonic released the HPX300
Seems that concern is out the window, along with good in camera audio. I suspect there will be HVX/HPX type video cameras out eventually to rival these SLR's. Otherwise the market will dry up from what you guys are saying. I would never ditch my HVX for shooting a movie with a little SLR camera but I guess I'm missing something here. lol Or is this just all about a cheaper price??

[livelikeriley]

Thanks - has the HVX really depreciated in value that much? Mine is hardly used and I was thinking I could prob. get around $3500 for it...at least according to some eBay auctions (although I'll likely sell it here instead if I end up selling it because I HATE eBay).

[livelikeriley]

One last question on video codecs - I've heard h.264 is not really editable in FCP (I have Avid as well, but usually end up cutting on FCP) - am I supposed to transcode this to something else...can anyone post a link to a workflow for editing h.264 codec-ed video in FCP?

Thanks again for all of the help!

[ydgmdlu]

I haven't done this myself, but when you ingest the footage into FCP, FCP is supposed to transcode it to ProRes for you. Am I right?

[seven.b]

I haven't done this myself, but when you ingest the footage into FCP, FCP is supposed to transcode it to ProRes for you. Am I right?
yep, just use the "log and transfer" option. It works great for me.

[Nik Manning]

Sell the HVX if you don't need it.

[Barry_Green]

Come on guys! What about the cmos chips and the rolling shutter problems associated with it that we all squawked about when panasonic released the HPX300
Seems that concern is out the window, along with good in camera audio. I suspect there will be HVX/HPX type video cameras out eventually to rival these SLR's. Otherwise the market will dry up from what you guys are saying. I would never ditch my HVX for shooting a movie with a little SLR camera but I guess I'm missing something here. lol Or is this just all about a cheaper price??
Spend ten minutes with the DSLR and you'll think "boy, this is everything I need."

Spend three hours with it working on a real project and, yeah, you'll miss everything that a real video camera has.

The new crop is stunning for their price, but for sheer usability they don't hold a candle to a professional video camera.

[ripupthehwy]

Kinda what I thought. :-)

[livelikeriley]

All right - just sold my letus for $1100 which puts me within striking distance of this camera...still debating on selling the HVX to pay for the lenses or putting those on the credit card and using work to pay them off...anyone have any good lens suggestions (want to spend around $1,000 total on lenses so nothing too crazy) really looking for a standard 50mm type lens (so 35mm on this cam. right?) and a good zoom to cover the bases on everything else.

[Nik Manning]

All right - just sold my letus for $1100 which puts me within striking distance of this camera...still debating on selling the HVX to pay for the lenses or putting those on the credit card and using work to pay them off...anyone have any good lens suggestions (want to spend around $1,000 total on lenses so nothing too crazy) really looking for a standard 50mm type lens (so 35mm on this cam. right?) and a good zoom to cover the bases on everything else.

Hey buddy I really think you should sell for your stated financial reasons. If you aren't using your setup for paid gigs then you don't really need it. It is best to get something cheaper and more versatile.

Sell your hvx and just get the stock kit Canon 7D. It's probably still faster than your hvx setup anyway. Shot with that for a couple months and then revisit buying lenses.

[livelikeriley]

By the stock kit do you mean the f3.5 lens...I'm worried that's way too slow for most situations...perhaps I'm wrong...I was thinking I'd need at least a 2.8 and pref. a 1.4? No?

[Nik Manning]

By the stock kit do you mean the f3.5 lens...I'm worried that's way too slow for most situations...perhaps I'm wrong...I was thinking I'd need at least a 2.8 and pref. a 1.4? No?

No I don't think it will be to slow for MOST situations. What exactly do you plan on shooting? It should be faster than your hvx200/letus setup which means it is fast enough correct? You stated you had crap lenses on the Letus so it should be a major upgrade from that.

I am buying the 7D also but don't get caught up in the hype and start buying things you don't NEED just to have them go unused like your hvx200/letus setup did.

Pay off some bills and shot some great videos!

[livelikeriley]

Thanks Nik...I guess because I was shooting digital throughout film school I never gave much thought to F-Stops...can you give me a scenario where I might need a 2.8 or 1.4 - I was under the impression that for ANY low-light type stuff I would need them...but maybe not? Are either of these good "all-purpose" lenses?

http://www.amazon.com/Tamron-17-50mm-Aspherical-Digital-Cameras/dp/B000EXR0SI

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-EF-S-17-55mm-Lens-Cameras/dp/B000EW8074

[BandanaDan]

Am I the only one that thinks shooting f.1.4 or even f/2.0 on anything longer than 50mm for narrative work looks spazzy? I mean by all means go for it if you've only got 1 person in frame and they don't really move much but still...

[Rakesh Jacob]

Just a couple quick thoughts.

On paid gigs form, function and reliablity rule. HVX, XHA1 and the likes are needed.

Doing your own thing, being an auter type of filmmaker, aesthetics rules. You have time to d--k around and get what you need. And it will look sweet!

Now the last issue is time. Please take this as something to think about only, not actual financial and market advice. Just something that I think might happen.
Given the rate these large sensor cams are coming out, alot of small chip cams are gonna hit the block! Ebay and even the DVX market place is gonna be full of people wanting to unload and upgrade. This is gonna severely and adversely affect the resale value.
Conversely, if you hold on to your HVX and wait for new vDSLRs to come out, the old vDSLRs are gonna hit the block as well so you might pick up a used or even refurbished one dirt cheap. After the 7D saturates the market, I'm thinking about still buying the GH1 if used prices plummet, it's a great 720p cam and if used properly is useable at 1080p.

If you are serious about selling a small chip cam, the sooner the better. Especialy before the GH1 and 7D start meeting market loads. Cause at that point :(

[BandanaDan]

I'd probably sell the HVX and leave it at that.

But yeah if you want a camera... that canon 7d, some lenses, a sound recorder, and a nice rig to make it look and function abit more professional may be that much more worth it.

[John Caballero]

The more I shoot with the GH1 the more I feel my HVX200 will be gathering dust for a very long time. Today I shot a show with dancers going full force and many camera movements and not a single drop of "mud" on 1080p. I was hand holding the camera and geting the hang of it and improving as it went along. The only glitch I had was running out of memory card because I did not erase what I had dumped in the computer. The GH1 did exactly what the HVX would have done even better because it has a much bigger sensor to boot. One thing I won't miss is my tired arm at the end of the day from the weight of the camera.

[SPZ]

Do take this advice with a grain of salt.

I agree with the videographer vs filmmaker point said before, but, in a realistic perspective, either you are in Hollywood and/or are one of the very few with big Government or investor baking, or you're one of the majority that does filmmaking as a passion and often at the cost of their own hard earned money, with little to no return in profits. In that case, you have to have some sort of revenue, and videography is as close you can get to stay in the "filmmaking environment". Saying this, I suggest you keep the HVX.

I would also wait and test the 7D myself before jumping on board and seeing if it really suits your needs. Yes, we are seeing very pretty pictures, but will it do everything the HVX does, specially for certain work or paid jobs? Also, is it Broadcast quality? The HVX certainly is. Also having the HVX keeps the door open for 1080 50/60i productions, for example, which is pretty much required for videography or delivery (there are different takes on the 720p 60 vs 1080 60i as to which is "better". But this is another topic), or for quick interviews with professional audio and situations where you need fast delivery like ENG, and of course, lets not forget that the HVX offers controlable Variable Frame rates, like shooting at 32/36 fps, which gives a nice slow mo that is not extreme like 60P, or the fantastic "frame rate hack" shots of 2fps- extra creative options you can't get with current VDSLR's...

Again, in an ideal world, we would all be getting paid for filmmaking, but always keep your doors open for revenue- we are in difficult times, and having a versatile camera like the HVX definitely opens more doors for those situations that a VDSLR just can't manage.

Personally I'm definitely keeping my HVX+ Brevis, but will almost certainly (waiting for the September 29 announcement) get a 7D for my personal filmmaking projects. Will I have to wait a bit more to get a good set of lens? Sure, but I will feel better knowing that I have the HVX securing my (financial) back if needed...

[Sttratos]

The more I shoot with the GH1 the more I feel my HVX200 will be gathering dust for a very long time. Today I shot a show with dancers going full force and many camera movements and not a single drop of "mud" on 1080p. I was hand holding the camera and geting the hang of it and improving as it went along. The only glitch I had was running out of memory card because I did not erase what I had dumped in the computer. The GH1 did exactly what the HVX would have done even better because it has a much bigger sensor to boot. One thing I won't miss is my tired arm at the end of the day from the weight of the camera.

Yeah, the GH1 would be the perfect HDslr if wasn't for the weak codec. One thing you must miss is the HVX better codec and the ability to grade footage without it falling apart and the lack of compression artifacts.

[Nik Manning]

Thanks Nik...I guess because I was shooting digital throughout film school I never gave much thought to F-Stops...can you give me a scenario where I might need a 2.8 or 1.4 - I was under the impression that for ANY low-light type stuff I would need them...but maybe not? Are either of these good "all-purpose" lenses?

http://www.amazon.com/Tamron-17-50mm-Aspherical-Digital-Cameras/dp/B000EXR0SI

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-EF-S-17-55mm-Lens-Cameras/dp/B000EW8074

Well it is always better to have a faster lens but you do not need the fastest lenses to shoot most situations. Compared to your original hvx/letus setup it will be as good or better in low light. That should be good enough to get started with.

[SPrimeau]

Keep your HVX. You'll use it most of the time.

The 7D is an addition to the HVX for specific shots.