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View Full Version : Best one stop solution for transcoding AVCHD?



commanderspike
09-07-2009, 04:42 PM
I shot a music video at the weekend in Berlin. Some of it is 1080 24p and some 720p for slow mo.

Some of the footage will need to be colour graded.

Also I want the highest quality transcoded files possible.

I am trying VoltaicHD but it is slow and the pulldown removal option only works if you convert ALL the files in one batch to 24p. Some of my 720p stuff needs to stay at 60p!

Is there anything that can take AVCHD and in the simplest, quickest way possible convert it to high quality Quicktime files with pulldown removal for the 24p 60i footage, with option to conform everything to 720p but keeping original frame rate? :dankk2:

e-steve
09-07-2009, 04:53 PM
I would just keep the 720 files separate and run them through FCP log and transfer...

Barry_Green
09-07-2009, 05:04 PM
Have you tried NeoScene? I don't know if it'll resize the clips for you, but it might be what you're looking for.

AdrianF
09-08-2009, 12:08 AM
I'm in the same boat as you right now. I shot a music video a couple of weeks back and am working on the edit now. I shot all 720, but needed some of the shots conformed to 25p for slow mo. As e-steve said just batch encode all your 720 files together, then choose afterwards which ones you want to conform to 24/25, it's a pretty quick process at that point.
I used Voltaic, but as good as it is for general encoding, wouldn't use it again on this kind of job, probably best to stick with log and transfer and/or go with Neoscene if you need it for pulldown removal.

Tameside
09-08-2009, 01:16 AM
Have you tred xilisoft, download the ultimate trial, you can convert clips upto a maximum time-limit with the trial(5 mins per clip I think), you can add different profiles to different clips and o/p to highest bit mov.(18Mbits)

http://www.xilisoft.com/video-converter.html

Upscaling is an option too with xili.

millerflip
09-08-2009, 01:05 PM
I am thinking of buying a GH1 and have any questions. When you transfer your movie files from the camera to the computer. What format will it be? MTS2 files?

andrzejkra
09-08-2009, 05:34 PM
Hey Commander, check out TMPEGEnc -

http://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/te4xp.html

I haven't finished testing it properly but it looks like a great solution for transcoding and pulldown removal and it gives more options for codecs and stuff. Might be good to get your eyes on it too in case I'm missing any drawbacks to the process it applies.

ustein
09-08-2009, 06:06 PM
>When you transfer your movie files from the camera to the computer. What format will it be? MTS2 files?

Precisely an AVCHD folder structure and the clips are MTS files.

I keep the structure to be able to recreate a disk/Card with the exact AVCHD structure for some other programs to import. On Mac I in the end onlu use the MTS files and transcode with Neoscene

billh
09-09-2009, 04:21 PM
I understand the reasons for using NeoScene to remove pulldown when shooting 1080i, but is this also necessary/beneficial when shooting 720/60?

Also, I notice Adrian is going to 24/25 for slow motion. I have been using 720/125 and converting the speed to 5-% in FCP. Should I be converting it to 24 in NeoScene? Would you guys mind shedding some light on this for me?

Thanks,

Bill

commanderspike
09-10-2009, 03:52 AM
Hey Commander, check out TMPEGEnc -

http://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/te4xp.html

I haven't finished testing it properly but it looks like a great solution for transcoding and pulldown removal and it gives more options for codecs and stuff. Might be good to get your eyes on it too in case I'm missing any drawbacks to the process it applies.

Thanks for the link. I used to use TMPGENC ages ago on my PC for converting MPEG videos and DVDs. Back then it was quite flakey but had good performance.

EDIT: But problem is it's Windows only. I have a Mac.

I find Neoscene expensive (and not worth the money!) and Voltaic slow. I think maybe the best way is to stick with transcoding in FCP and using Compressor to remove pulldown as per the guide on the sticky.

By the way, is there a major difference in quality between Pro Res 422 and Apple Intermediate Codec? Because I find editing with footage transcoded with the intermediate codec to be a LOT faster than handling Pro Res. I have a 17 inch Macbook Pro Core Duo 2.16ghz - by no means top of the range but I didn't think Pro Res would kill it so badly.

Also in VLC Player raw AVCHD footage looks GREAT!! That is, the first 0.5 seconds before it turns grey and won't playback properly. Any solutions for the VLC woes on Mac?

AdrianF
09-10-2009, 04:14 AM
By the way, is there a major difference in quality between Pro Res 422 and Apple Intermediate Codec?
AIC tends to accentuate any problems with the codec, whether it's HDV or AVCHD, do some test encodes and see what looks best to you.


Also, I notice Adrian is going to 24/25 for slow motion. I have been using 720/125 and converting the speed to 5-% in FCP
I'm working with a PAL camera, so am converting the 720 50p files at their native framerate and then using Cinema Tools, conforming the shots I want to 25p. I believe this should work the same for 720 60p files, conforming to 24p ( I don't think you'll need to adjust the speed in FCP if done this way ).

Isaac_Brody
09-10-2009, 07:29 AM
Neoscene.

commanderspike
09-10-2009, 08:29 AM
Neoscene.

Neoscene is $129, does it do anything really special to justify the extra over Voltaic or even just using FCP / Compressor?

Barry_Green
09-10-2009, 09:10 AM
NeoScene's results are much crisper and just better than Voltaic's. Of course, the file sizes are massively huger too.

Voltaic re-encodes to h.264 at about the same file size, resulting in significant recompression losses.

NeoScene re-encodes to Cineform's codec, which is much gentler compression, resulting in a lot less recompression loss. I'm sure that some systems will find Cineform's codec a lot easier to edit than native h.264; on my system using Premiere CS4.1 they perform about the same.

Jack Daniel Stanley
09-10-2009, 09:13 AM
NeoScene re-encodes to either Cineform or ProRes on a mac. Cineform is smalller in size than ProRes but harder to work with in FCP. There are also three quality settings for Cineform re-encodes resulting in smaller files sizes.

Isaac_Brody
09-10-2009, 10:47 AM
You can get Neoscene for 100 bucks from videoguys. They have a discount. And Voltaic had bugs they never sorted out so I'm gonna say go with Neoscene and pay the 60 bucks more for a tool that works well. You've already got AVCHD compression and the extra hit in recompression in Voltaic is not worth the quality risk. Neoscene is a better choice.

ajamils
09-10-2009, 10:52 AM
is there any advantage of Neoscene ($100) vs VirtualDub (Free) except for the extra steps involved in later ? As far as quality is concerned, is it the same ?

ajamils
10-20-2009, 10:07 PM
is there any advantage of Neoscene ($100) vs VirtualDub (Free) except for the extra steps involved in later ? As far as quality is concerned, is it the same ?

anyone ?

Park Edwards
10-28-2009, 11:57 PM
yeah, uncompressed 4:4:4 cineform intermediate codec. that's the advantage

videoguys
10-29-2009, 07:27 AM
You're not going to find a better workflow today then Cineform for your AVCHD footage. The image quality is superb and the files are so much easier to edit.

Another new advantage of Cineform is that you can use the Matrox MXO2 Mini to preview your timeline in full HD resolution via HDMI or component.

Gary
Videoguys.com

ajamils
10-29-2009, 08:20 AM
You're not going to find a better workflow today then Cineform for your AVCHD footage. The image quality is superb and the files are so much easier to edit.

Another new advantage of Cineform is that you can use the Matrox MXO2 Mini to preview your timeline in full HD resolution via HDMI or component.

Gary
Videoguys.com

Is there any quality difference between Neoscene and VoltaicHD ?

tflak
10-29-2009, 08:44 AM
You're not going to find a better workflow today then Cineform for your AVCHD footage.

Gary
Videoguys.com

Yes, but this is not available for Premiere CS4 on Macs, right?

Park Edwards
10-29-2009, 10:02 AM
Is there any quality difference between Neoscene and VoltaicHD ?

ajamils, the question's been answered twice already and in another thread as well.


NeoScene's results are much crisper and just better than Voltaic's. Of course, the file sizes are massively huger too.

Voltaic re-encodes to h.264 at about the same file size, resulting in significant recompression losses.

NeoScene re-encodes to Cineform's codec, which is much gentler compression, resulting in a lot less recompression loss. I'm sure that some systems will find Cineform's codec a lot easier to edit than native h.264; on my system using Premiere CS4.1 they perform about the same.


yeah, uncompressed 4:4:4 cineform intermediate codec. that's the advantage

cineform is the best option for quality, speed and performance vs any other program that uses an intermediate codec. you know you can d/l the demo. so why not use it for yourself?

kaplanfx
10-29-2009, 11:16 AM
cineform is the best option for quality, speed and performance vs any other program that uses an intermediate codec. you know you can d/l the demo. so why not use it for yourself?

What about just using FCP to log and transfer the AVCHD to prores HD 4:2:2 and remove the pulldown (if you are working with 1080) with compressor or cinema tools. I already have the FCP stuff, so it there an advantage to doing the actual transcoding with Cineform?

-kap

Park Edwards
10-29-2009, 10:47 PM
can't say. i'm a pc.

Oedipax
10-30-2009, 01:50 AM
Cineform Neoscene has an option in the transcoding stage to interpolate the chroma to 4:2:2. It doesn't mean you're suddenly getting more chroma info than you had previously, but it does offer more flexibility in grading (more steps between values, even if it's not exactly new data filling in those steps). I'm sure someone can phrase it better than I, but that's the basic idea FWIW. It's one argument for Cineform over other formats (in addition to the simplified workflow - I hate L&T in FCP).

As for VideoGuys - they sell NeoScene for $100 and (at least as of August 09) if it's your first order you can get an additional $10 off making it $90 total. I balked at the $129 price tag as well.

RieniO
11-01-2009, 01:15 PM
By the way, is there a major difference in quality between Pro Res 422 and Apple Intermediate Codec? Because I find editing with footage transcoded with the intermediate codec to be a LOT faster than handling Pro Res. I have a 17 inch Macbook Pro Core Duo 2.16ghz - by no means top of the range but I didn't think Pro Res would kill it so badly.

I have the same set-up as you and I use both the newest FCP and Final Cut Express and maybe FCP is the problem and not Pro Res 422. This is based on the fact that SD DV edits fine in FCX but the same edits slow in FCP. HDV in intermediate edits fine in FCX but HDV native edits slow in FCP. I guess FCP just takes more system resources than FCX.

I have not tried this yet but apparently you can import AVCHD to the Mac using iMovie and then you can edit it with FCX.

I am considering going back to PC editing again though. I bought the MacBookPro with FCP recently and I was expecting better performance from a 4000 euro investment. I worked with Premiere in the past and want to give that a try again, on the PC.

Kellar42
11-01-2009, 01:23 PM
I tried the NeoScene demo, but found the interface a little clunky. I don't like having to open each clip separately, from the folder, as opposed to log and transfer, where everything is viewable, and in and out points can be set, etc. However, the quality seems high on Neoscene.

For now, I'm still removing pulldown in an extra compressor step.

Soroush Shahrokni
11-01-2009, 06:50 PM
I have Cineforms NeoScene and it works great, highly recommended.