View Full Version : 7d dynamic range against the 5d
reem12
09-07-2009, 10:14 AM
From the clips I've seen so far, it seems like the 7d is not handeling highlights as well as the 5d. does anyone else see this or is it to early to tell?
Ian-T
09-07-2009, 10:20 AM
Still too early to tell. But still, it's not expected to handle highlights better than the 5D.
seems pretty damn good to me. A little curve adjustment in post will help.
Michael Olsen
09-07-2009, 08:22 PM
Even if the 7D doesn't quite have the DR of the 5D, it certainly seems more than usable.
having learned from HDV, anything that improves that is a blessing. And at a fraction of the price. Wooo
Pirata
09-07-2009, 09:30 PM
I am sure most of the sample footage from the 7D you are seeing are default picture setting that have not been flattened, 5D highlights look like that too until you tweak the in-camera settings.
mattsand
09-08-2009, 01:24 AM
having learned from HDV, anything that improves that is a blessing.
there's a huge difference between say the f350 and the cheapest sony. i know what you mean but hdv holds highlights just as well as mjpeg, h.264 or any other 8 bit video codec. it's all in the sensor and to some extent the raw processing.
Mr. Japetto
10-01-2009, 09:51 PM
Has anyone done any Dynamic Range tests? (stops)
How does the 7D DR compare to that of Mr. 5D?
If my memory serves me correct, the 5D has something like 8-9 stops of DR, right? RED One territory, so I'll be happy if the 7D comes close.
Kholi
10-01-2009, 10:11 PM
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5D may have a very slight edge. Regardless, it's close enough. Judge for yourself.
The specular highlights in the metal are reflecting a bright California sky.
The first video shows me pushing the image highlights VERY far. Check the falloff.
5D and 7D are near identical in image quality.
dadoboy
10-01-2009, 11:05 PM
You can see where the highlights get clipped pretty easily, but the rolloff on her face is not unattractive or too abrupt. Can't really tell the dynamic range, but it gives us an idea of the tonality of highlights and over-exposure on a Caucasian human face.
5D may have a very slight edge. Regardless, it's close enough. Judge for yourself.
The specular highlights in the metal are reflecting a bright California sky.
The first video shows me pushing the image highlights VERY far. Check the falloff.
5D and 7D are near identical in image quality.
USLatin
10-01-2009, 11:07 PM
I'd love to see a 7D vs. 5D split screen with a high contrast image.
Kholi
10-01-2009, 11:13 PM
You can see where the highlights get clipped pretty easily, but the rolloff on her face is not unattractive or too abrupt. Can't really tell the dynamic range, but it gives us an idea of the tonality of highlights and over-exposure on a Caucasian human face.
Right right. Reem seemed more concerned about highs (which I am as well) so that's why I posted those up. More soon, though!
dadoboy
10-01-2009, 11:37 PM
With video chips it's always the highlights that are more the problem anyways. You don't owe anybody here anything though.
Any test posted here by anybody should always be considered a gift. You don't find me running out and buying a brand spanking new camera and using up my time posting stuff ;).
Right right. Reem seemed more concerned about highs (which I am as well) so that's why I posted those up. More soon, though!
Orchidthief
10-02-2009, 12:05 AM
Thanks for the test so far Kholi. Really appreciate the fact that you've been helpful with these samples. Not everyone has $1700 to drop right off the bat to be able to play around with a camera! =)
Kholi
10-02-2009, 12:19 AM
I don't either. =T Hence why I now have to learn how to operate with one arm; pulling focus for myself is a biotch!
USLatin
10-02-2009, 05:26 AM
Any test posted here by anybody should always be considered a gift.
Quoted for truth. Thanks for posting those Kholi.
While we don't want you stressing out over testing I am sure you will run a few tests for yourself. So if you end up making any split screens for yourself to be able to compare easily, then it would be appreciated if you could also throw them up on Vimeo or something. I got server space and bandwidth to share if necessary.
diaoc1
10-02-2009, 11:15 AM
Hello, I found your post via google when I was myself searching for information about 7D dynamic range :-))
I took pictures in RAW of the same scene with the 5D mark I and the 7D and overexposed them by 1,2 and 3 Ev to blow highlights then I corrected them them back in ACR.
Color maybe not be the same between the 2 camera (ACR is still BETA for 7D I think) but this will give you an idea about what the 7D can do against a 5D (it s a mark I btw not a mark II)
It seems to me 7D is not doing a bad job against the first 5D at least on pictures :)
I know this isn't video but it may give an idea about what the 7D sensor is capable of.
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1673/testhighligtrecovery5dv.th.jpg (http://img297.imageshack.us/i/testhighligtrecovery5dv.jpg/)
reem12
10-02-2009, 03:24 PM
Sorry, psted in wrong thread.
Mr. Japetto
10-03-2009, 09:56 AM
Thanks Kholi, I like the rolloff - It looks silky.
visualbrother
10-12-2009, 05:17 AM
Some stuff shot at night with neon lights in high ISO.
7016146
Tweaked the curves a bit in color to get more detail in dark areas and get a bit more detail back in the skies. All pretty quick and dirty.
In case the video doesn't show up, here is the link:
http://vimeo.com/7016146
el presidente
10-12-2009, 06:49 AM
aaahhh Amsterdam....A place I go to too often for my own good:happy:
Careful with a camera there tho...I saw someone getting an slr smashed for sneeky filming there.
You must mean the Sigma 10-20mm F4, not 3.5? If you're at iso 1600 or above you should put the HTP on otherwise you are throwing away 1/3 stop, from that thread on reduser:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34434&page=26
"If you adjust ISO, but keep brightness the same by changing exposure, then the dynamic range is highest at ISO 100, stays about the same at 200, then starts going down from there. The dynamic range will vary most greatly by the picture profile settings. With low contrast settings, ISO 200 will have more dynamic range than ISO 400. But with high contrast, the difference may not be noticable.
The "plus 1/3" ISO settings (125, 250, 500, 1000) should be avoided, as explained above. The "minus 1/3" ISO settings are fine, as long as you know that they have 1/3 less highlight headroom.
Highlight tone priority trades one stop of shadow noise for one stop of highlight headroom. I use it a lot. It should always be enabled for ISO 3200 and 6400, since in those cases there is no noise penalty from HTP, so you get the one stop of highlight headroom for free."
visualbrother
10-12-2009, 03:06 PM
Must I really? Tell the Sigma people to stop putting 3.5 on the box and lens and I will :)
Pretty nice lens, F3.5 for the whole zoom range. Maybe you must google first :)
Yeah good tip for other people: HTP is nice, first thing I turned on in my night custom when I got the 7d.
Haha, I did look for it, I wanted to know if it was the same lens I just bought. Found it now, and think I bought the wrong lens. poo.
Kholi
10-12-2009, 10:08 PM
Must I really? Tell the Sigma people to stop putting 3.5 on the box and lens and I will :)
Pretty nice lens, F3.5 for the whole zoom range. Maybe you must google first :)
Yeah good tip for other people: HTP is nice, first thing I turned on in my night custom when I got the 7d.
Highlight Tone Priority introduces noise in mids and blacks that isn't present when disabled.
Well I'll have to compare HTP for high iso, but the suggestion was that you may as well use it since there is no penalty there.
The reason 160/320/640/1250 look less noisy is because the highlights are being clipped according to the other thread...
Barry_Green
10-13-2009, 09:18 AM
No penalty? Of course there's a penalty, there's always a penalty whenever there's a benefit. Every setting, every change involves a compromise.
My understanding on HTP (which would back up Kholi's observation) is that it drops the ISO by a notch to preserve highlights, and it adds gains to the lower and mid tones to boost the perceived sensitivity back up.
I'm only quoting what Daniel Browning said in the thread linked above, he seems to know what he's talking about.
Barry_Green
10-13-2009, 09:31 AM
Well, okay, but he said "no penalty" in the specific case of ISO 3200 and 6400. Assumedly he means that because there's so much noise already, a little more doesn't make any difference?
visualbrother
10-13-2009, 12:04 PM
Yes the Sigma 3.5 is brand new, guy in the shop pointed it out when I was going to buy the Canon 10-22 and told me the Sigma was 3.5 all the way (yes I like anything that goes all the way...........).
Ok here is a shot made with the 7d and Nikon 80-200 Zoom, shot at ISO 200 with HTP on around 17:30, lots of sunlight in the clouds and every shot like this is full of weird artifacts in the high lights.
http://vimeo.com/7047910
the zoom is done in post to show what is going. Funny thing is you can actually get rid of it with some grading in Color, but still it was a bit of a shock to see first time.
The plan was to do a lot of night shooting, dark areas with loads of lamps so HTP was already turned on. Not sure if it has anything to do with this though, only saw the effect at home or would have tried a few different settings.
Image settings: Neutral with contrast set as low as possible.
Wil experiment some more later this week.