Is there a mirror in the 7D? or is it mirrorless like GH1?

[J Davis]

Is there a mirror in the 7D? or is it mirrorless like GH1?

I'm just wondering if it will be able to accept the wide range of lenses that the GH1 can because of its mirror less design.
Thanks

[Digigenic]

yes there's a mirror.
yes it can accept a wide range of lenses too, with or without an adapter.

[J Davis]

Thanks Digi,
do you know if it would accept canon FD and Nikon AIS?

[Michael Olsen]

Second on the question about FD - and does it need an optical adapter to do so? And if so, how much do those cost?

[NoxNoctus]

It's an EF mount camera. It takes EF lenses. FD and Nikkor mounts require adapters

[Michael Olsen]

I think it's understood that it needs an adapter. The question is whether or not the flange distance will permit an adapter for FD or Nikon AIS...

[dadoboy]

I'm afraid that's incorrect. FD lenses will be severe macro lenses on the EF mount.
The Canon EOS cameras don't have the shortened flange focal distance of m4/3 GH1, so far fewer makes of lenses will work properly on it.

[roxics]

You can put Nikon lenses on it though. I have a Nikon to EOS adapter I used to use on my old rebel. It's just a thin metal ring that goes onto the Nikon lens. Picture here:

http://www.pbase.com/roxics/image/47205173

The EOS lens mount is a little bigger in circumference then the F mount, so it's like putting a ring inside of a ring.

[J Davis]

I had a feeling Nikon was okay but FD was a no-go.
Thanks you guys.

Keeping the mirror will rule out a whole bunch of other lenses too I guess...
Why on earth did they keep the mirror in there?

[roxics]

Why on earth did they keep the mirror in there?

Because it's primarily a still camera. It also needs to be compatible with all the other EOS lenses. There are tons of people with thousands of dollars invested in canon glass. Canon isn't going to just reinvent everything for some video feature on a DSLR. That's why they sell dedicated video cameras.

The GH1 is built around an entirely new chip size and lens mount that just came out. The micro 4/3rds standard. There are only like three lens available for that system right now(not counting regular 4/3rds lenses). Whereas the EOS system has been around for nearly three decades and Canon alone makes 60 plus lenses (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcategoryid=140) for it, not to mention all the third party lenses. So you have plenty of choice.

[ydgmdlu]

Why on earth did they keep the mirror in there?
Because it's not a Micro Four-Thirds camera. Micro Four-Thirds is the only interchangeable lens stills camera system in the world that doesn't have a mirror box. And technically, a camera without a mirror box is not an SLR. The point of an SLR is to have an optical viewfinder, rather than an electronic one. Why would Canon have a reason to engineer its own version of Micro Four-Thirds? There's no need, which is why it's not being done. There are plenty of good reasons not to do all live view all the time.

[bimdas]

m42 glass should be fine with the 7D too.

[J Davis]

Thanks for the history lesson – I owned Pentax film SLR back in '82. ASA not ISO remember?
I do realize its purpose.

Plenty of ppl putting canon lenses on RED's on GH1's etc ... my point is valid ... you don't need the mirror to operate the lens.
I just happen to think that the mirror - as good a design as it was 30 years ago - is now become unnecessary. Canon will probably
move to mirrorless designs in the future.

[ydgmdlu]

Plenty of ppl putting canon lenses on RED's on GH1's etc ... my point is valid ... you don't need the mirror to operate the lens.
But the point is that the existence of the mirror box is not for the operation of the lens. It's there for other reasons. What would removing the mirror box accomplish?

Micro Four-Thirds does without the mirror box in order to reduce the size of the camera. But in reducing the size of the camera, the flange focal distance had to be greatly reduced. The 7D gains nothing by having no mirror box. Its size can't be reduced in the same way, or else it wouldn't be compatible with the EOS system. Canon would then have to create an adapter to transmit the electrical signals between lens and camera.

Furthermore, there are problems with "all live view all the time." Battery life is one issue; you only get between one to two hours of live view on a single charge of the battery. Then there's the potential overheating issues. Also, without the mirror box, the sensor is exposed whenever the lens is not attached. Both the G1 and the GH1 have shown decreased LCD and EVF performance in low-light conditions. You don't have to worry about that stuff with a mirror box and optical viewfinder.

[Kholi]

With video on the 7D, the Mirro box and Optical Viewfinder are useless.

[J Davis]

Hey my apologies .. I'm sorry if I'm stepping on peoples toes. I didn't mean to put down the 7D in anyway. In fact I'm very interested in the cam despite my views on mirrors – RED and GH1 being working examples of mirrorless cams. I'm stepping out of this conv for tonight. Thanks for the info on FD's M42's and nikons!

[ydgmdlu]

With video on the 7D, the Mirro box and Optical Viewfinder are useless.
Indeed, but isn't that true of all video cameras? The 7D is still a stills camera first. That's why the mirror box is there. If it were the other way around, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[xbourque]

m42 glass should be fine with the 7D too.

I tried old m42 Pentax/Takumars on the 5D2 and they looked pretty good. Should work no problem on the 7D.

--X

[dadoboy]

I'm gonna sound old fashioned, but I consider the optical viewfinder on the 7D a great asset. But why not have a pie fight :grin:

I dont care what anyone says, I can tell more about contrast, the qualities of a lens, and lighting through a quality optical viewfinder than on any EVF or LCD I've ever used.

The times I've shot on the RED, their EVF is very nice, but I always wished for an optical viewfinder especially AT NIGHT.

That's one bonus the 7D certainly has going for it. It just needs an orientable optical viewfinder, and extensions. Maybe someone can make that stuff in their shop?

[Kholi]

If you could use it while in Live View mode that would be great.

[roxics]

Indeed, but isn't that true of all video cameras? The 7D is still a stills camera first. That's why the mirror box is there. If it were the other way around, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Which brings up a good point. Maybe Canon should think about introducing a dedicated video camera that uses a 1.6 crop sensor and a removable EOS mount.

Basically I'm talking about an XL-H1 update with a 1.6 crop sensor. Give it 2k resolution, variable frame rates (1-60fps), XLR audio, adobe Cinema DNG and maybe a new mount that takes video EOS lenses with powered zoom and video AF. Then we're all set. EOS adapter sold separately.

Of course that puts them into an entirely new market. Right now they build ENG cameras and still cameras with video bonus features. A camera like I'm talking about above would only have one purpose (cinema).

But you never know, they're sort of dipping their feet in that water right now with these HDSLR's. They just don't have to admit it since they can call them still cameras.

[J Davis]

Indeed, but isn't that true of all video cameras? The 7D is still a stills camera first. That's why the mirror box is there. If it were the other way around, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Threads are buzzing because of its video capabilities not its still capabilities.

Dumping the mirror opens up a wider scope of lenses but the best reason is so the EVF/LCD can show the image at the ISO you are shooting at.

[roxics]

Threads are buzzing because of its video capabilities not its still capabilities.


http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/809801

Keep in mind that you're on a video forum. Photography forums are looking at this camera differently.

I tried to get into a discussion about the 7D's video features with the photographer I work with (I do video, he does photography here) and he sort of shrugged his shoulders and was like "that's cool, nice to have that option" and then went on talking about the 19 point AF and the built in flash.

[daveswan]

And bear in mind 'togs have a deep and abiding hatred for EVFs. Canon aren't going to alienate their core (Despite what people here think) markets by sticking an EVF in a low-number EOS DSLR.
Dave

[Pirata]

I had a feeling Nikon was okay but FD was a no-go.
Thanks you guys.

Keeping the mirror will rule out a whole bunch of other lenses too I guess...
Why on earth did they keep the mirror in there?

Actually there are these FD-EF adapters, they have glass on the back to correct and focus to infinity: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130322306842&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

[Pirata]

Since the mirror flips up, out of the way in live view, I think a new wishlist for Hudson to crack in fw is a new function to be able to keep the mirror flipped up at all times, that way we can stick any lens on there with a proper adapter and not worry about cracking it.

[KeithAndrews.TV]

Did you guys see that the 8fps burst is mechanical and not sensor-based. Pretty impressive in the video. I just worry about the mirror moving that quickly that the wear and tear on the camera would be so much more.

http://cdn.sellpoint.net/canon/EOS_7D_Performance-Strength.html

[Taylor Rudd]

The cameras are built to handle the abuse. I used to shoot sports on the 1D Mk I and Mk II, which shot at 8.5 fps. The Mk III shoots at 10 fps. Within a year there were 50,000 actuations on the camera and it worked just as good as day 1.

If Canon kills the optical viewfinder, they will lose pro photographers. Some things are non-negotiable.



Dumping the mirror opens up a wider scope of lenses but the best reason is so the EVF/LCD can show the image at the ISO you are shooting at.

Agree that you'll be able to use a wider scope of lenses, but the latter is irrelevant. The light meter in the optical viewfinder is faster/more accurate than any EVF you could throw in there.

Photojournalism is all about speed, and a mere millisecond of lag time found on EVFs is enough to "lose" the shot.

Hopefully Canon will do what I've been dreaming of before VDSLRs existed - S35/1.6x crop sensor with EF mount on a video body similar to their XL or XH lines, with robust codec.

It would refine the indy market much the same way the DVX100 did.

[NoxNoctus]

As a photographer as well I'd rather have an optical viewfinder. Toss in AF while videoing and I'll be paying your kids college tuition with returned service no doubt haha