7d - buy ?

[morgan_moore]

OK what are the pros and cons of purchase

I think the crop sensor offeers the perfect DOF for cinematography

The frame rates are superb

Is that all that is needed in a camera

What else will we desire.

To me the cost of all of these camera is pretty cheap - if they are good for a couple of years

Buying a camera every six months does grate a little

What I really want is a FF nikonD4, (CanonDS or scarlet) with XLR , monitored sound and a RAW codec and AF and of course

So its another not quite camera - buy or not?

S

[jls4]

Until you see more tests there's no way to tell. The anti-aliasing filter for one is a big deal. Handling highlights is another. Also HDMI out while not a deal breaker, makes it easier so you can use lcd monitors on a rails rig, so it's easier to see in tight areas. Right now there's a lot we don't know. My eyes are on this cam, but I'll let Kholi and some of the others give it some tests before I buy.

[morgan_moore]

Interestingly if my 5d has 'no value' now it has cost 2k over nine months..

£ 2,000.00 cost
9 months life
270 Days life
£ 7.41 Daily Rental

Worth it IMO

The 'cost' would be even less on this baby

S

[jls4]

Don't worry - how many miles you got on it. I may buy it from you. My wife is a pro photographer and for still images the 5D is still the best camera. Now I'm in the market for a 5D and maybe a 7D LOL

[morgan_moore]

It would be a good stills camera if I had any canon glass and didnt already own a D3 and a HassyH22

This reminds me of the stills period a few years ago when I spooled through nikon D100, D70 and D80 in what felt like a few months, I never bothered with D1x or D2, D2x, because I knew that in the big picture all those cameras where a POS that would only last one year - my stills requirement was 10+mp in a decent body with a sensible RAW buffer - I have that now

The D3 and the H22 are proper tools that even if outdated are still making me very happy

My D90 was superceded in two months !

Of course to an operator with a bit of spare cash the 5d remains the best tool for lowlight, dreamy slo-mo, and a 14 2.8 FOV

S

[Tracey Lee]

Why don't you all go and pre order the 7d at best buy:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9491944&st=canon+7d&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=1218115078883

But seriously, can you pre-order this thing yet? (no idea what's going on over at best buy).

[mhood]

I pre-ordered mine this morning at 8am from Amazon...got confimation and an order number. I've just read that Amazon has pulled the pre-order page. I guess they filled their quota. Shades of GH1 Hell Batman!!!!

[morgan_moore]

Why don't you all go and pre order the 7d at best buy:



not sure why I would buy that is the point of the thread..

For..

Framerate
handle able DOF from super35 sensor

against

have a 5d/EX1
no XLR/monitor/levels
not nikon* (!)
no decent AF
not RAW
5d may IMO get framerate

Some of those things may be sorted in the next three months by another model- its the same old question of bleeding edge vs snoozing/losing

It is my opinion that Nikon will eventually get thier sh1t together (D4) and produce something stunning - as may sony or even Red or a Canon 1DXX

One of those will be 'the final solution' as the D3x is IMO for stills

S

[Nik Manning]

You should quickly purchase this cam before it is back ordered till next year. The price is so low that everyone will try to get one. I think over half of the GH1 orders will be canceled and will preorder the 7D. I just preordered for $1650 after cashback from Bing!

[morgan_moore]

I did make mumblings at my dealer - one of the smaller UK pro shops - Im top of their list

the sort of place canon will want to have stock at , Im not up for internet shopping -maybe getting old or something

Its strange how one gets attached to a lump of plastic (the 5d) its so 1990s to have connection to an item, the modern way is to think about these things costing by the month - thats also tragic in terms of its environmental impact - Id much prefer a digiback for my Nikon F3 and keep my footprint lower in terms of all the fancy materials being pissed up the wall wiuth dumped consumer stuff -im just considering dumping heaps of outmoded technology old CRTs etc that is costing me to store and cost me $1000s to buy

S

[Richard J. Johnson]

I'm buying it. For that price, one could afford to keep their existing set up and learn the 7D.

[Michael Olsen]

Something also to consider, assuming you can float the $2K, is that most retailers have a pretty good return policy. You can pre-order it now assuring you will receive it relatively quickly in October. If things don't turn out well and our beloved DPs find it to be a real disappointment, you can usually either 1) call and cancel your pre-order or 2) return the item undamaged and in original packaging for a full refund.

[KeithAndrews.TV]

I'm one for passing on the 7D. I don't need 8fps, and I don't want a crop sensor. I'd rather have that extra dof control when I want it and just dial it up when I don't. It's true the 7D's APS-C sensor is closer to s35mm, but it's still a bit smaller! When stacked up against 35mm it's even smaller still and when compared to 135, or full-frame it's really really small!

I'm taking this opportunity to pick up a used 5D Mark II at a much reduced price and just shoot 30fps for commercial work. Remember, you can always go down, but you can't always go up! This holds true for both frame rates and sensor sizes as well.

[Zim]

Then if you only wanted the video side the price of the new Panasonic is under $2,000.

AG-HMC40 FEATURES

· HD formats: 1080/60i, 1080/30p, 1080/24p (Native); 720/60p, 720/30p, 720/24p (Native)
· Three newly designed 1/4.1" Progressive 3MOS Imagers for full HD resolution
· 12x Leica Dicomar lens, 43mm filter Ø, zoom range of 40.8 - 490mm* (*35mm equivalent.)
· Extremely slow, smooth zoom for the precise control needed for dramatic sequences
· Time Date Stamp enables shooting Legal Depositions or Surveillance
· Long record time: 3 hours with included battery (7 hours continuous with 5,800mAh Battery)
· Remaining battery time readout in minutes so shooter is warned
· 3-second pre-record function captures the shot from the beginning
· Shooting assist functions: focus expand, focus bar and Face Detection feature in Auto
· Waveform monitor helps with luminance for green screen where lighting has to be evenly distributed
· Professional interface with HDMI out, Component Out (mini D terminal), Composite Video Out and RCA Audio Out
· Additional features include: three user set buttons, Time code (DF, NDF, REC RUN, FREE RUN) and USER BIT, two scene files, auto functions (Auto Focus, Auto White Balance and Auto Neutral Density)
· Connects directly to PictBridge photo printers
· 2.7-inch 16:9 Touchscreen LCD display (Just touch the thumbnail for playback)
· Manual and remote control connection for Zoom, Focus, Iris, Start/Stop functions (similar to HMC150). Focus ring can also be used for Iris and Zoom
· Min. Illumination: 1 lux, (F1.8, Gain: +34dB, Slow Shutter: 1/2 sec.)
· Syncro Scan Shutter, 60i- 1/60-1/250, 30p- 1/30-1/250, 24p- 1/24-1/250
· Selectable Gammas & DRS Dynamic Range Stretch
· Lightweight, yet durable, design with removable handle
· Optional AG-MYA30G Professional XLR adapter available (features audio inputs with +48V Phantom Power, Mic/Line, Attentuation, Ch 1&2 or Ch2, Level Controls and Mic Holder (8 pin push on precision connector)
· Edius Neo 2 edit software included in carton (Through March 2010)
· 3-Year limited warranty (1 year + 2 extra years upon registration)


$1995 LAUNCH PRICE

[morgan_moore]

.. a tiny sensor and a handy cam look?
..no wide angle, no T/S, no 50 1.4



S

[PaPa]

and as usual, the best buy USA site differs from the Canadian site..

Can anyone link me to a site that's taking pre-orders that will ship to Canada? Much appreciated.

[NoxNoctus]

Then if you only wanted the video side the price of the new Panasonic is under $2,000.

AG-HMC40 FEATURES

.....
· Three newly designed 1/4.1" Progressive 3MOS Imagers for full HD resolution
· 12x Leica Dicomar lens, 43mm filter Ø, zoom range of 40.8 - 490mm* (*35mm equivalent.)
· Extremely slow, smooth zoom for the precise control needed for dramatic sequences
· Time Date Stamp enables shooting Legal Depositions or Surveillance

....
$1995 LAUNCH PRICE

If I'm paying 2 grand I want a camera with a bigger sensor than a $500 prosumer camcorder. Pass.

However it would make a good cam for surveillance with that nifty "date/time stamp feature" :grin: It'd be the most dramatically sequenced shoplifting evidence you've ever seen, thanks to the slow control zoom.


.....I jest. Kind of. I'm bored and I've got 7D on the brain.

[cjwolff]

AG-HMC40 FEATURES

· Connects directly to PictBridge photo printers



I assume this means the HMC has direct print capability? This is essential kit for my next pro gig.

[morgan_moore]

Id like to resume the question - to buy or not..

I have an EX1 and a 5d,

Reasons not to get the new canon

For RnGun use
-no sound capablitity
-short record times
-hard to focus
The EX1 is better for RnG

For Art use..
Im going to need to re-lense at the wide end
My 14 2.8 becomes a standard wide and its actually pretty bendy/distorted and cr&p
F2 wides are big bucks
I get a hunch that transitions to blown are not so nice - and transitions to blown are REALLY important to keep light budget down
I get a hunch that lowlight is not so nice

Another thought , filming movies with created scenes and sets one can 'direct for not needing to blur everything out behind'

On lower budgets the ability to throw the background becomes more important - meanin FF =Good

I can do a 'reasonable' reframerate IF a broadcast customer comes along

Tramm may crack the framerate

So the 5d is better for art

For stills
The 5d is FF and better

And of course keeping my cash in my wallet means Im nearer to affording NikonD4v, Scarlet, 1DSMk5 or whatever has..

multiframerate
XLR monitor input
long clips
fullframe stills
AF
bla bla bla

Additionally all my money is in nikon glass so given two equals I would pick nikon

SMM

[Kholi]

Already sounds like you've made your decision, though. Are you looking for someone to tell you something different?

[morgan_moore]

Reasons to buy

All this stuff is desposable, I could flog my 5d and get the 7d it for nearly nothing, (but would need a new wide zoom)

I could stop framerate stress, hit a few more focus marks and get some range without lugging my 400 2.8

S

[Kholi]

Already sounds like you've made your decision, though. Are you looking for someone to tell you something different?


----------- again

[morgan_moore]

Already sounds like you've made your decision, though. Are you looking for someone to tell you something different?

Not at all clear in my head

I actually preordered on the first day and have a buyer for my 5d

interesingly (to me) the 5d buyer is also the guy who has loaned me the 24-105 - so intead of buying that I could get a different wide to normal zoom at no cost

I think that I just am already missing the 14mm fullframe and 50 at 2 that I would lose

[Kholi]

Well, it all comes down to taste. It's true, it's pretty easy to get an Ultra Ridiculous Wide with Full Frame. If you use it often, then go for it.

14mm on the wide end of an APS-C sized sensor is nothing to scoff at, 11mm less so. An 11-16/2.8 Tokina can be had at a fair price and works wonders. The Canon Version would allow you to adjust the aperture manually via electronic controls.

[morgan_moore]

I also shot this at the weekend..

http://www.vimeo.com/6480091

Being an event it was different for me..

I was digging my EX1 on my rig for simplicity and also once the light went even my 5d footage is noisy

My thought at the mo is probably that all these cameras are flawed in some way so I should just move the chess peices to allow me to have the best trade value at the point when a real winner occurs and that means keeping my stuff new

S

[morgan_moore]

Well, it all comes down to taste. It's true, it's pretty easy to get an Ultra Ridiculous Wide with Full Frame. If you use it often, then go for it.



well my lenses are also used for stills on my D3, so going APS (35 1.4 etc) is a PITA

im not a great fan of the 14 apart from it is just occasionally a killer esp in a water housing or tight corner POV

11 X 1.5 is 17 ish - not the same park really

ps cross postings all the way !

S

[Kholi]

I think you probably have to decide whether you want a video camera primarily or a still camera. If you want stills, keep the MKii. I have no interest in the MKii look for video. It's not being closed minded, it just doesn't look right to my eyes.

If it does yours, then there's no reason to argue with yourself. Just keep it.

[morgan_moore]

I have shot 10,000 clips on my 5d,

and one stills shoot where the LV needed for framing and I needed to outresolve my D3

I have a Blad and a nikonD3 for stills

But my lens investment is cross platform where possible for both reasons of finance and portability

using APS one becomes interested in different lenses

eg 35 1.4 instead of 50 1.4 and also different wides

over the years I have been very happy to keep my cash in FF Nikkor glass, even when shooting APS (D1,2) nikon and currently with the canon,

the market was flooded with cr&p nikkor D glass when the D3 came out

---

on your point of " it just doesn't look right to my eyes"

I think as stated above that there is a difference between 'holywood' - simple built and planned sets, even two sides rooms, where a some DOF looks 'right' - every item in the set is used to tell the story

.. and cramped undressed indy sets where the ability to blur out the sh1t is a useful tool (as is the ability to blow highlights in a nice manner) -im most likely to work in the latter !

S

[Kholi]

No matter how much "background blur" you do, it's going to look exactly like what it is: unfunded, unplanned and in serious need of some set design.

No camera is going to save that.

Anyway, for me there's really no question about it. If there was an in-camera window ability (RED) from FF to S35 then it would be a no brainer: have both.

In lieu of the fact that there isn't, an APS-C sized sensor gives me exactly what I know I want out of an image. The 7D is the tool I suggest for cinematic narrative or commercial work. On that note, I skip out.

[ChosenPredator]

and as usual, the best buy USA site differs from the Canadian site..

Can anyone link me to a site that's taking pre-orders that will ship to Canada? Much appreciated.


http://www.henrys.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/PageDisplay?dest=dslrcentre/canon/7d/canon_7d.jsp&storeId=10001

http://www.vistek.ca/store/DigitalSLRs/245749/canon-eos-7d-kit-efs-1585-usm-lens.aspx