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Digigenic
08-31-2009, 10:11 PM
US/UK Press Release

And yes, it does have 24p.
From DPreview...
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090105canoneos7d.asp


1920 x 1080 (29.97, 25, 23.976 fps)
1280 x 720 (59.94, 50 fps)
640 x 480 (59.94, 50 fps)

Digigenic
08-31-2009, 10:19 PM
Their Hands on Review: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page13.asp
The Link is Set on the Video Page to appear first.
It appears a video sample is going to be provided as well, I believe it's in the process of being uploaded.

Rakesh Jacob
08-31-2009, 10:20 PM
Woooooooooooooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooooooooooo o!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ethan cooper
08-31-2009, 10:22 PM
Review at Gizmodo:

http://gizmodo.com/5349829/canon-7d-dslr-first-hands-on-18-megapixels-24fps-full-hd-video-for-1900

mrmoe
08-31-2009, 10:24 PM
It appears Canon is listening. (MSRP $1,699 estimated) Cheaper than Nikon D300s (MSRP $1,799.95) Very Nice.

@Digigenic Thanks for this.

ProfessorU
08-31-2009, 10:26 PM
"We consulted over 5,000 photographers worldwide and asked them what they most wanted to see from a camera."

This is a perfect example of why DSLRs have taken so long to add a real video feature! The Innovator's Dilemma!

ethan cooper
08-31-2009, 10:28 PM
Mic input? Anyone see a mic input listed?

Looks like 12 minutes max record time in 1080.

Isaac_Brody
08-31-2009, 10:32 PM
Yeah! :)

ryansheffer
08-31-2009, 10:34 PM
Preorder on Amazon already up. This was posted in another thread. Kit for $1899 and body for $1699.

ethan cooper
08-31-2009, 10:36 PM
Any of you fellas feel like giving away your now worthless MkII's? I'll even let you pay me for the trouble of taking it off your hands.

Digigenic
08-31-2009, 10:38 PM
Mic input? Anyone see a mic input listed?

Looks like 12 minutes max record time in 1080.
Scroll down under connections, there is a mic input.
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page6.asp

fates
08-31-2009, 10:42 PM
So there was a line about AF during movie mode, can you auto focus while recording now?

fates
08-31-2009, 10:45 PM
Youtube clips are showing up too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKYt64GpPLM

John Caballero
08-31-2009, 10:46 PM
Oh yeah!

ethan cooper
08-31-2009, 10:49 PM
wait a sec here boys. something smells a little fishy. 24p on a cheaper camera than the 5D? 2 processors on this guy as compared to the one on the 5D? Are they brewing up something else behind the scenes? Possibly something from the actual video department? It just seems odd to me that they'd undercut a higher end product like that without having something else in the wings. I know the 5D is full frame and this is, well whatever it is, but still something just doesn't seem right to me.

sunburst
08-31-2009, 10:58 PM
says: Movies are saved as .MOV files and can be viewed in Full HD with HDMI output.

what codec and bit rate is this?


can this AUTO focus for video?

f64manray
08-31-2009, 11:00 PM
Very nice. After reading the 7D specs, I'm kind of puzzled as to what the 1DIV is going to be outside of just being completely weather sealed. Whatever they have in store for the 1DIV and 1DsIV is going to be a knock out punch if the 7D is their $1,700 price point. I'm not making a move until the 1DIV series is unveiled because I'm starting to think it's going to be pretty incredible.

.... and I think they will get the frame rate sorted out on the 5DII. I just don't think the 7D is going to be more featured at almost $1,000 less than their premiere FF 5DII. It's totally upside down, and I don't think they will allow it. If it happens, I think you'll see a firmware upgrade for the 5DII before the 7D ships and then all will be right in the Canon universe.

Rakesh Jacob
08-31-2009, 11:01 PM
h.264, dont know the bit rate

arroway
08-31-2009, 11:01 PM
codec is the same.

mcgeedigital
08-31-2009, 11:04 PM
Video specification

The 7D offers HD video capture at 1920 x 1080 pixels (1080P) at 30, 25 or 24 frames per second or 1280 x 720 pixels (720P) at 60 or 50 frames per second. The built-in internal microphone captures monaural audio. There is a socket for a 3.5mm external microphone that allows recording of stereo sound. There is also an option to cut the beginning and end of a movie in one second increments in the camera.
Sizes • 1920x1080: 30/24 fps (NTSC), 25/24 fps (PAL)
• 1280x720 (HD): 60 fps (NTSC), 50 fps (PAL)
• 640x480 (SD): 60 fps (NTSC), 50 fps (PAL)
Audio 44.1kHz Mono (Internal Mic), Linear PCM
Format .MOV MPEG-4 AVC, H.264
File size 5.5 MB/sec (1080P), 5.5 MB/sec (720P), 2.8 MB/sec (VGA)
Max file size per clip 4GB, max duration 29min 59sec,
Running time 12 min for 1080P, 12 min for 720P, 24 min for VGA


http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page13.asp

sunburst
08-31-2009, 11:07 PM
Video specification

The 7D offers HD video capture at 1920 x 1080 pixels (1080P) at 30, 25 or 24 frames per second or 1280 x 720 pixels (720P) at 60 or 50 frames per second. The built-in internal microphone captures monaural audio. There is a socket for a 3.5mm external microphone that allows recording of stereo sound. There is also an option to cut the beginning and end of a movie in one second increments in the camera.
Sizes • 1920x1080: 30/24 fps (NTSC), 25/24 fps (PAL)
• 1280x720 (HD): 60 fps (NTSC), 50 fps (PAL)
• 640x480 (SD): 60 fps (NTSC), 50 fps (PAL)
Audio 44.1kHz Mono (Internal Mic), Linear PCM
Format .MOV MPEG-4 AVC, H.264
File size 5.5 MB/sec (1080P), 5.5 MB/sec (720P), 2.8 MB/sec (VGA)
Max file size per clip 4GB, max duration 29min 59sec,
Running time 12 min for 1080P, 12 min for 720P, 24 min for VGA


http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page13.asp



Format .MOV MPEG-4 AVC, H.264
5.5 MB/sec (1080P), 5.5 MB/sec (720P

is this BETTER than gh1?

Im gonna be disappointed if NO AUTO focus in video mode, though

Isaac_Brody
08-31-2009, 11:07 PM
No pulldown removal needed whatsoever. :)

Taylor Rudd
08-31-2009, 11:12 PM
I just want to make sure I have it right...

The 7D's 5.5 MB/sec is better than the 5D's 4.8 MB/sec, no?

I'm sold. Time to whip out the Best Buy credit card and hope they have preorder/no interest financing!

Digigenic
08-31-2009, 11:14 PM
No pulldown removal needed whatsoever. :)
:thumbup:

arroway
08-31-2009, 11:16 PM
I looked for, but could not find, a suicide emoticon.

dadoboy
08-31-2009, 11:18 PM
I think it's only a matter of time before the GH1 forums get consolidated into one, and the Canon XD cameras have many more added to accommodate all the interest.

BradM
08-31-2009, 11:20 PM
Yup... I'm in! woohoooo!!

It's looking (well from what we see here) like the camera the GH1 could have been had it a proper codec. If this anything as good as the 5D's quality then we have a winner.

ethan cooper
08-31-2009, 11:23 PM
It's almost to the point that Canon is the only game in town for decent vDSLRs now. They'll own this segment of the market soon thanks to Nikon being slow or unable to deliver something equivalent to this point. Looks like I bought the wrong company's lenses.

sunburst
08-31-2009, 11:24 PM
did you look at the FOCUSING - hunting - in the flies on plant video?


how is he focusing that?

f64manray
08-31-2009, 11:29 PM
Sorry, but if this camera doesn't have a headphone jack, it ain't sh#$. ...... :-)

BMFM FILMS
08-31-2009, 11:30 PM
Oh gosh, I think I might bite this time around.now checking out footage asap.

Kholi
08-31-2009, 11:31 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

This is the Canon that I fell in love with a few years ago. The cut throat Canon that made smart moves like creating an XH-A1 that was essentialy a better bargain than a more expensive XL-H1.

If they keep this up, it's pretty much over for everyone else.

I'm sad that this has video out and the GH-1 doesn't... what a stupid move by Panasonic...

dadoboy
08-31-2009, 11:33 PM
Double system sound - you know - get out the old clapper which you can buy for $50 at Filmtools. It's way better than any onboard audio to have a dedicated mixer and sound recordist going to hard disk monitoring on set.

Rory_B
08-31-2009, 11:33 PM
Things that make you go hmmmmm.

Where's Arsenio's dog pound.

BMFM FILMS
08-31-2009, 11:34 PM
Why doesn't Nikon pay attention to Canon when it comes to video? Oh well. I just need to see some footage and I think I'm sold.

ryansheffer
08-31-2009, 11:34 PM
Or you can literally just clap. It syncs just fine.

Digigenic
08-31-2009, 11:34 PM
wait a sec here boys. something smells a little fishy. 24p on a cheaper camera than the 5D? 2 processors on this guy as compared to the one on the 5D? Are they brewing up something else behind the scenes? Possibly something from the actual video department? It just seems odd to me that they'd undercut a higher end product like that without having something else in the wings. I know the 5D is full frame and this is, well whatever it is, but still something just doesn't seem right to me.
This has been speculated in advance for some time now.
If you suspect those cameras will better meet your needs, then go ahead and wait for that camera. A lot of people don't want to gamble on waiting. And I can assure you there are some 5DmkII users here who have their own interesting perspective on waiting that they can share with you, especially in light of recent events.

ethan cooper
08-31-2009, 11:39 PM
This has been speculated in advance for some time now.
If you suspect those cameras will better meet your needs, then go ahead and wait for that camera. A lot of people don't want to gamble on waiting. And I can assure you there are some 5DmkII users here who have their own interesting perspective on waiting that they can share with you, especially in light of recent events.


Waiting on buying the right camera won't cost me a dime (or clients). I think I'll wait a little longer.

dadoboy
08-31-2009, 11:40 PM
Sure would be nice to have back focus adjustment. But for $1700 I'll take it!
Oh, and it's probably a really good stills camera too!

BMFM FILMS
08-31-2009, 11:42 PM
Found footage...
http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eosd/eosmovie/index.html

BMFM FILMS
08-31-2009, 11:43 PM
wowowoww@ footage

ChipG
08-31-2009, 11:44 PM
I sold my two GH1's to a production company for a nice profit and was getting ready to put an order in for two more but now the 7D has my attention. All this does is reassure me to invest in nice glass and swap $1600ish vdslr cams out every 6-9 months.

This cam is looking good, can't wait to see all the footage roll in within the next 30 days or so.

ethan cooper
08-31-2009, 11:45 PM
All this does is reassure me to invest in nice glass and swap $1600ish vdslr cams out every 6-9 months.

My thoughts exactly. Stock up on both Canon and Nikon glass and keep swapping bodies while they one up each other. This does assume Nikon will get it right one day.

Kholi
08-31-2009, 11:46 PM
Every day I ponder getting two GH-1's. But you know the only thing that stops me? No live video out.

Canon's really stepped up to the plate here and things are about to get really really bad (good). I can say that the best thing about this is I can finally dump the Mkii and pick up a better camera.

plasmasmp
08-31-2009, 11:47 PM
I'm so excited. Best camera since the original DVX100!

BMFM FILMS
08-31-2009, 11:49 PM
Can anybody confirm that there is manual control across the board?

ethan cooper
08-31-2009, 11:50 PM
I'm so excited. Best camera since the original DVX100!

Well, it might be a little early to say that. Part of the greatness of the DVX100 was that it held up for so many years.

f64manray
08-31-2009, 11:51 PM
Sure would be nice to have back focus adjustment. But for $1700 I'll take it!
Oh, and it's probably a really good stills camera too!

Wait, this camera also takes stills. ....I'm in!

TimurCivan
08-31-2009, 11:54 PM
ARRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!


5DmkII 21.1 fullframe Glory!?????? Or 7D glory 24P Glory!!!!!????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Norbert
08-31-2009, 11:56 PM
Can anybody confirm that there is manual control across the board?It seems so:

When the shooting mode is set to M you can adjust shutter speed and aperture via the control dials and also set the sensitivity manually. In all other modes exposure is controlled automatically.And what's really cool is that PAL-users also has the option of 24p for filmout. :) Really nice move, Canon!
•1920x1080: 30/24 fps (NTSC), 25/24 fps (PAL)

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page13.asp

BMFM FILMS
08-31-2009, 11:56 PM
nevermind about my previous post, theres a huge thread talking about it already... I think D90 is going to wave goodbye soon.

mel4tonin
08-31-2009, 11:56 PM
for what i see in the footage, it seems less less jello than 5D2

Kholi
08-31-2009, 11:58 PM
ARRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!


5DmkII 21.1 fullframe Glory!?????? Or 7D glory 24P Glory!!!!!????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I know that it's going to be some contest for others... but it's hard to say there's even a decision to make

1080/24,25,30 makes it immediately an all around go to camera for any small job
720/60 just ices the cake with slow mo in post.

And the sensor crop means you can shoot wide open all day and only have to deal with what you're used to.

Call me a Day One owner here. The second it hits any store or website I'm getting one.

John Caballero
08-31-2009, 11:59 PM
The Passage footage is just stunning!

ChipG
08-31-2009, 11:59 PM
I just watched the passage video, I'm pre ordering one tonight. Don't really care about all the little details, if it sucks I'll sell it on eBay and lose $200, I don't want to wait 3 months on a waiting list so I'll gamble. Damn, the passage video looks awesome.

Cranky
08-31-2009, 11:59 PM
Is it 50Hz/60Hz switchable? And I hope that "B" stands for bytes, not for bits.

ryansheffer
09-01-2009, 12:01 AM
its bytes because its a big B not a small.

f64manray
09-01-2009, 12:02 AM
Every day I ponder getting two GH-1's. But you know the only thing that stops me? No live video out.

Canon's really stepped up to the plate here and things are about to get really really bad (good). I can say that the best thing about this is I can finally dump the Mkii and pick up a better camera.

Now that just hurts. Lets not forget that the 5DII has a superior sensor to the 1DsIII. I know your source told you if I remember correctly that 24P wasn't coming to the 5DII, but was that the same source that told you that 60P wasn't going to happen on the 7D, but did. I'll still predict that 24P will happen for the 5DII before the 7D ships. Nevertheless, I realize you'll want the crop factor of the 7D. Except for the superior AF and 8fps for stills, I really don't think it's going to be a better camera ....more of a hyped up Rebel.

BMFM FILMS
09-01-2009, 12:03 AM
The passage video was stunning quality, not to mention the footage that was shot at night.

One tidbit I noticed on DPreview was that when shooting at ISO 6400, it's like shooting on ISO 1600 on the DIGIC3 processors, so we're gonna see a leap in lowlight performance...just wow, how can I even debate keeping my nikon, all aboard the canon train!

Kholi
09-01-2009, 12:04 AM
Now that just hurts. Lets not forget that the 5DII has a superior sensor to the 1DsIII. I know your source told you if I remember correctly that 24P wasn't coming to the 5DII, but was that the same source that told you that 60P wasn't going to happen on the 7D, but did. I'll still predict that 24P will happen for the 5DII before the 7D ships. Nevertheless, I realize you'll want the crop factor of the 7D. Except for the superior AF and 8fps for stills, I really don't think it's going to be a better camera ....more of a hyped up Rebel.


Yeah that's absolutely true. He did outright say "No that's a misprint" so now I have to go BACK to wondering if "hey, will the MKii get 24p?". I'll agree, this is a real shocker to me and I'm pretty happy about it.

He was still right on the omney about manual controls.

I just want my 1.6x Crop and In-Camera 24p back. lol

Kholi
09-01-2009, 12:05 AM
I just watched the passage video, I'm pre ordering one tonight. Don't really care about all the little details, if it sucks I'll sell it on eBay and lose $200, I don't want to wait 3 months on a waiting list so I'll gamble. Damn, the passage video looks awesome.


Chip where are you ordering from? Please tell me so I can go and buy.

TimurCivan
09-01-2009, 12:10 AM
Very nice. After reading the 7D specs, I'm kind of puzzled as to what the 1DIV is going to be outside of just being completely weather sealed. Whatever they have in store for the 1DIV and 1DsIV is going to be a knock out punch if the 7D is their $1,700 price point. I'm not making a move until the 1DIV series is unveiled because I'm starting to think it's going to be pretty incredible.

.... and I think they will get the frame rate sorted out on the 5DII. I just don't think the 7D is going to be more featured at almost $1,000 less than their premiere FF 5DII. It's totally upside down, and I don't think they will allow it. If it happens, I think you'll see a firmware upgrade for the 5DII before the 7D ships and then all will be right in the Canon universe.

dont compare thoes cameras form the Video standpoint. The 1DmkIV is a full on high speed DSLR first.

Top end pro stuff.

Remeber these are still cameras.

I will be using the next DSLR i buy as vide camera as well... God im gonna miss Full frame....

Rory_B
09-01-2009, 12:11 AM
go to amazon to pre-order

TimurCivan
09-01-2009, 12:12 AM
I know that it's going to be some contest for others... but it's hard to say there's even a decision to make

1080/24,25,30 makes it immediately an all around go to camera for any small job
720/60 just ices the cake with slow mo in post.

And the sensor crop means you can shoot wide open all day and only have to deal with what you're used to.

Call me a Day One owner here. The second it hits any store or website I'm getting one.

you forget im a fashion photographer too... still capabilities are EXTREMELY important to me....

ChipG
09-01-2009, 12:13 AM
Chip where are you ordering from? Please tell me so I can go and buy.

Amazon right now but I'm callng B&H the minute they open in the morning to see if they wll be taking pre orders.

Kholi
09-01-2009, 12:19 AM
Thanks guys. Preordered. Gonna do some checking around to see who else might get some stock in quick.

entry
09-01-2009, 12:22 AM
Any of you fellas feel like giving away your now worthless MkII's? I'll even let you pay me for the trouble of taking it off your hands.
5D MK II is far superior in still photography, why would anyone sell it if you don't only shoot video?

ethan cooper
09-01-2009, 12:23 AM
Call me a Day One owner here. The second it hits any store or website I'm getting one.

I don't know you personally, just seen you around the forums forever and I can say with all certainty... NOW THERE'S A SHOCKER.

Lee_B
09-01-2009, 12:24 AM
So no hope for a firmware update for the 5D?

This camera sounds amazing by the way.

sblfilms
09-01-2009, 12:24 AM
Not quite the lowlight stud that the 5DMKII is (though hard to tell from a crappy compressed and scaled streaming video), but admirable and a solid step up from my current rig. And the jello did seem to be improved from the 5DMKII. I would guess if you don't shoot a ton of handheld, it probably won't be an issue.

pre-order placed.

f64manray
09-01-2009, 12:27 AM
So no hope for a firmware update for the 5D?

This camera sounds amazing by the way.

No, there's hope.

ChipG
09-01-2009, 12:30 AM
So no hope for a firmware update for the 5D?

Why would they do that? They'll make you buy a new camera.

f64manray
09-01-2009, 12:31 AM
I don't know you personally, just seen you around the forums forever and I can say with all certainty... NOW THERE'S A SHOCKER.

Kholi is always a Day One Owner. He bought a D90 on Day One and put it in a head lock and forced it to do things Nikon never dreamed it could do. I have a feeling that the 7D will be much less of a challenge for him.

Kholi
09-01-2009, 12:31 AM
i don't know you personally, just seen you around the forums forever and i can say with all certainty... Now there's a shocker.

lol whatever man!

bimdas
09-01-2009, 12:32 AM
talk about bang for your buck. this changes everything!

Pirata
09-01-2009, 12:33 AM
fun times ahead

f64manray
09-01-2009, 12:35 AM
Why would they do that? They'll make you buy a new camera.

Yes, but the 7D must co-exist with the 5DII which has only just been released, and the 5DII is the more superior camera in the model line up. It's just wierd that it doesn't have all the frame rates and the 7D does. Sooo ... it needs to be corrected. If it can do 30P I would think it can to 24P.

Kholi
09-01-2009, 12:36 AM
Kholi is always a Day One Owner. He bought a D90 on Day One and put it in a head lock and forced it to do things Nikon never dreamed it could do. I have a feeling that the 7D will be much less of a challenge for him.


You know what I'm looking forward to the most? The long, drawn out sigh I'll emit when I realize that I don't have to worry about jello, mud, video out, stairstep remove, twixtor 30p to 24p and best of all... wrapping my head around Full Frame Cinematography.

A Camera that can be used to achieve the most desired effect, without hassle, is priceless.

dadoboy
09-01-2009, 12:42 AM
Regarding the "Passage" video:

-The use of tilt and perspective lenses from Canon and Nikon (see d300s thread) in their initial demo reels is truly annoying! I want to see what the camera can do in the entire frame edge to edge. It's like someone putting heavy diffusion on the lens or in post - great for real pieces but for a demo it just gets in the way.

-Camera seems to have nice latitude - see the shot where the girl is holding her hand up to her face looking up in the sun. Doesn't seem as crunchy as the first 5Dmk2 demos.

ethan cooper
09-01-2009, 12:48 AM
You know what I'm looking forward to the most? The long, drawn out sigh I'll emit when I realize that I don't have to worry about jello, mud, video out, stairstep remove, twixtor 30p to 24p and best of all... wrapping my head around Full Frame Cinematography.

A Camera that can be used to achieve the most desired effect, without hassle, is priceless.

From the looks of the "Passage" video you might not have to worry about jello, but it seems the camera has been programed to soap opera.

ChipG
09-01-2009, 12:48 AM
Yes, but the 7D must co-exist with the 5DII which has only just been released, and the 5DII is the more superior camera in the model line up. It's just wierd that it doesn't have all the frame rates and the 7D does. Sooo ... it needs to be corrected. If it can do 30P I would think it can to 24P.

Wishfull thinking, it's a business, they will make you buy a new camera, the 5diii or what ever the next model is after the 5d2.

speculator
09-01-2009, 12:51 AM
Anyone know how the jello effect would be compared to the GH1/Red/Ex1? Can anyone confirm if the dual digic processors should eliminate most of the jello effect compared to the 5d and make it comparable to GH1 levels or above?

plasmasmp
09-01-2009, 12:52 AM
From the looks of the "Passage" video you might not have to worry about jello, but it seems the camera has been programed to soap opera.

Not quite soap opera, that would be for *cough* 30p :D At 24p it's programmed for lifetime movie channel.

Not that one is superior to the other...

Kevin Dorsey
09-01-2009, 12:53 AM
Anyone know how the jello effect would be compared to the GH1/Red/Ex1? Can anyone confirm if the dual digic processors should eliminate most of the jello effect compared to the 5d and make it comparable to GH1 levels or above?

I think we should wait until someone can compare them. And you better believe someone will.

Rory_B
09-01-2009, 12:53 AM
Time for a Sally Field MOW

Cranky
09-01-2009, 12:57 AM
The Passage footage is just stunning!
Have they shot some shots with a tilt lens? The bottom part seems to be out of focus while the upper is not. Yet some other parts seem like blurring in post, where the center is in focus while everything around it is not. Some scenes do not look like having natural shallow DOF to me.

Adam J McKay
09-01-2009, 01:00 AM
Anybody read what Jim had to say over at RED... Seems like school yard stuff.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34369

I may have just become a Canon fanboy, can't wait until some proper test footage pops up.

John Caballero
09-01-2009, 01:00 AM
Have they shot some shots with a tilt lens? The bottom part seems to be out of focus while the upper is not. Yet some other parts seem like blurring in post, where the center is in focus while everything around it is not. Some scenes do not look like having natural shallow DOF to me.

They list the lenses at the end. I don't think I saw a tilt lens listed.

f64manray
09-01-2009, 01:10 AM
Wishfull thinking, it's a business, they will make you buy a new camera, the 5diii or what ever the next model is after the 5d2.

...and yet, canon went ahead and did a pretty major firmware uprade to the 5DII and gave it manual controls when they realized they accidently gave the 5DII a world class video (cine) sensor. They have been reconfiguring what this camera is capable of since the month it was released. They did not try to push users into the 7D (which I'm pretty sure they knew was coming) by withholding manual controls on the 5DII, but went ahead and installed the capability to try and satisfy their customers and make the camera even more in demand. Giving the 5DII varying frame rate in no way cuts into 7D sales. they are two different animals. One of them is built for speed (7D) and the other is built for art (5DII).

Not giving the 5DII varing frame rates will damage 5DII sales. That's something Canon is not prepared to do.

John Caballero
09-01-2009, 01:12 AM
John, apparently they did use three tilt-shift lenses: the TS-E90, TS-E45 and TS-E24.

Ok. Thanks for pointing it out. They used a lot of lenses I am sure to showcase all the possibilities. The video is beautiful. You have to also realize the settings, the models, the make up and hair gives it a high production quality. And the post work of course.

bill totolo
09-01-2009, 01:29 AM
its bytes because its a big B not a small.

So if my online Bandwith Converter is correct, Pansonic's 17Mbps data rate is equal to about 2.125 MB (capital B)?

Would love to know how compression stacks up between the two cameras. I've used the Lumix, haven't got my hands on a Canon yet.

Cheers,

f64manray
09-01-2009, 01:35 AM
Anybody read what Jim had to say over at RED... Seems like school yard stuff.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34369

.

It looks like canon struck a chord, LOL. I don't think jannard realizes that canon just stumbled into the VDSLR game, and they've been trying to catch up to themselves since the release of the 5DII. It's not as conspiratorial as he makes it out to be. They didn't realize that this video afterthought would become what it is. They've done a pretty good job trying to step up and do the right thing ie; manual controls ...and for free, Jim.

dadoboy
09-01-2009, 01:38 AM
Can someone with finer eyes than mine (or that is, a finer monitor) tell me if they see a lot of aliasing in any of the sample vids? I take it that to spit out 1080P the 7D is skipping rows like the 5D, but is it too hopeful to think that it's NOT??

ryansheffer
09-01-2009, 01:42 AM
2.125 MB/s is correct. And I can tell you from experience using the 5d mark II and GH1 side by side. The codec is incomparable. The 5d's codec holds up better than most anything this side of RED/uncompressed including Sony's Ex1/Ex3. The GH1's codec is what has caused me to put mine up for sale. The 7d having a slightly better bitrate than the 5d is simply icing on the cake.

xbourque
09-01-2009, 02:19 AM
Can someone with finer eyes than mine (or that is, a finer monitor) tell me if they see a lot of aliasing in any of the sample vids? I take it that to spit out 1080P the 7D is skipping rows like the 5D, but is it too hopeful to think that it's NOT??

I wrote this on cinema5d.com:


Hmm... looking at the blinds in the window @ 1:41... and the pinstripes on his sleeve @ 4:13... seems like aliasing is still a problem though.

Not too bad on this clip though:
http://www.popsci.com/gear-amp-gadgets/article/2009-08/hands-preview-canon-7d-blends-uber-pro-features-enhanced-hd-video-capture

Just count on the good folks at Popular Science to give us a noise sample in... 256 colors GIF format. Way to go guys.

Nik Manning
09-01-2009, 02:37 AM
datarate breakdown
note: The 7D shots 24p instead of 30p so it is 20% less compression than 5D!

HDV =3.13 MB/sec [Megabyte-per-second]
GH1 =2.125 MB/sec [Megabyte-per-second]


7D below
=5.5 MB/sec [Megabyte-per-second]
=44 Mbps [Megabit-per-second]

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 05:05 AM
Anybody read what Jim had to say over at RED... Seems like school yard stuff.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34369

I may have just become a Canon fanboy, can't wait until some proper test footage pops up.

OMFG THAT IS TOO FUNNY!

He really should have stayed out of it imo. The Red One is uber fabulous, it really is, but this is a whole-nother class for a whole another segment. It just gives credence to the 7D :thumbup:
We'll see how this plays out, which ever way it goes, WE FREAKING BENEFIT MOFOs!

EDIT: I was reading further down that thread and seems like people are actually upset that Canon is releasing improved products for lower prices... WTF! I guess since they've been locked in the 10yr product cycle Red seems to be shooting for, they forget other companies make new sh!t ALL THE DAMN TIME. I don;t use a computer for more than 6 months cause I want something better and faster. If YOU don't want to spend the money on it why do I have to stay in the back of the class with YOU!???

Put out some cameras cause those brochures don't seem to shoot very well, OF COURSE YOU DO FIRMWARE UPDATES ALL THE TIME, YOU ONLY HAVE ONE DAMN CAMERA!!!! I really love what I see from the Red One, but the fanboy responses really bunched my panties this morning!

FatDaddy
09-01-2009, 05:14 AM
Did you see the start and stop button? Nice :beer:

Finster
09-01-2009, 05:18 AM
AF in video mode??? Do we have an official word on this?

Lee Wilson
09-01-2009, 05:21 AM
It seems so:
And what's really cool is that PAL-users also has the option of 24p for filmout. :) Really nice move, Canon!

1920x1080: 30/24 fps (NTSC), 25/24 fps (PAL)

What is the difference between 24fps NTSC 1080p and 24fps PAL 1080p ???

ydgmdlu
09-01-2009, 05:29 AM
Isn't there no such thing as 24 fps PAL? That's basically an oxymoron.

Lee Wilson
09-01-2009, 05:47 AM
Anybody read what Jim had to say over at RED... Seems like school yard stuff.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34369

I may have just become a Canon fanboy, can't wait until some proper test footage pops up.

:)

Poor fella'

He's not stupid, it must be dawning on him that these DSLRs are slowly transgressing his once exclusive territory, if the best critique he can level against the 7D is that it is 'unfair' to 5DII owners you know Canon have hit a nerve.

Lee Wilson
09-01-2009, 05:51 AM
What is the difference between 24fps NTSC 1080p and 24fps PAL 1080p ???



Isn't there no such thing as 24 fps PAL? That's basically an oxymoron.


That's what I was thinking ?

dcloud
09-01-2009, 05:52 AM
i dont think its unfair at all.. 5d mk II still works well as a Still cam with Full frame. Its not a dedicated video cam.

Lee Wilson
09-01-2009, 05:53 AM
Jello looks to be better (than the 5DII)

http://vimeo.com/6372689

squig
09-01-2009, 05:59 AM
2.125 MB/s is correct. And I can tell you from experience using the 5d mark II and GH1 side by side. The codec is incomparable. The 5d's codec holds up better than most anything this side of RED/uncompressed including Sony's Ex1/Ex3. The GH1's codec is what has caused me to put mine up for sale. The 7d having a slightly better bitrate than the 5d is simply icing on the cake.

it's quite a bit better if it's pumping out 5.5Mb @ 24p

I'm gonna hold onto my MKII until after the 7D arrives so I can run some aliasing, jello, low light and compression comparison tests if Kholi doesn't beat me to it.

jello should be better with 2 digic IV chips

AdrianF
09-01-2009, 06:04 AM
That's what I was thinking ?

I read it that there might be 2 versions, like the GH1, with the PAL version being 24/25 switchable. That would be great if true.

squig
09-01-2009, 06:07 AM
OMFG THAT IS TOO FUNNY!



I started film school on monday and they have a red that I have free access to but I'd rather shoot everything with the 7D because I know how to get great looking stuff out of the MKII and it's only going to look better with the 7D.

squig
09-01-2009, 06:12 AM
You know what I'm looking forward to the most? The long, drawn out sigh I'll emit when I realize that I don't have to worry about jello, mud, video out, stairstep remove, twixtor 30p to 24p and best of all... wrapping my head around Full Frame Cinematography.

A Camera that can be used to achieve the most desired effect, without hassle, is priceless.

all that and no dropped frames on slow pans would be a kinda nice feature. After much suffering with the D90, MKII, GH1 I think we all deserve a DSLR that actually works.

mhood
09-01-2009, 06:21 AM
No SDHD or dual card support? How dare they!!!! And I've seen a 4GB limit on clips as well as a 12.5 minute maximum...does 12.5 minutes = 4GB? I looked at the footage, was blown away, pre ordered mine from Amazon 10 minutes ago. Thank you Canon!!!!! We're best friends for life now.

ydgmdlu
09-01-2009, 06:23 AM
I think that there's only version of the camera for the whole world. You can switch between PAL and NTSC mode via a menu setting, I'll bet.

Richard J. Johnson
09-01-2009, 06:27 AM
Can it shoot slo-mo in cam? just got on and did not read all the specs yet.

vx1kOrnot
09-01-2009, 06:36 AM
Can it shoot slo-mo in cam? just got on and did not read all the specs yet.

Can the GH1 do that? man the 7D is nuts! 8fps without a GRiP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKYt64GpPLM

mel4tonin
09-01-2009, 06:41 AM
Can it shoot slo-mo in cam? just got on and did not read all the specs yet.

you can record 60Fps at 720P that is a 2,5X slomo

DELTA_Rotary
09-01-2009, 06:50 AM
Anyone know if the HDMI output will stream 1080p while recording? I really want to us a AJA Ki Pro with a DSLR.

Finster
09-01-2009, 06:57 AM
AF in video mode??? Do we have an official word on this?

Still searching. Found this ...

"AF can now be started by either half pressing the shutter button or using the AF-ON button as before."

Not sure if this is an improvement over the 5DM2, though.

Richard J. Johnson
09-01-2009, 07:07 AM
you can record 60Fps at 720P that is a 2,5X slomo

nice. Thank you. I really can't think of too many reasons not to buy this.:grin:

KeithAndrews.TV
09-01-2009, 07:14 AM
(He, he, he. Now that everyone is distracted with the release of the 7D, I'm gonna run my ass over to ebay and pick me up a nice 5D Mark II for cheap! OH NO, THEY'VE HEARD ME!)

manglerBMX
09-01-2009, 07:21 AM
quick question, does amazon bill your card when you order, or when item ships?

ydgmdlu
09-01-2009, 07:25 AM
When the item ships.

squig
09-01-2009, 07:25 AM
Just noticed one potential flaw, looking at the ISO settings there are none of the good lower noise in-between settings like 320 640 etc. But maybe the X00 settings are cleaner than on the MKII?

Lee Wilson
09-01-2009, 07:26 AM
quick question, does amazon bill your card when you order, or when item ships?

I don't know about the US, but here in the UK it is illegal to take money from the card account before the item ships.

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 07:28 AM
(He, he, he. Now that everyone is distracted with the release of the 7D, I'm gonna run my ass over to ebay and pick me up a nice 5D Mark II for cheap! OH NO, THEY'VE HEARD ME!)

LOL yeah I'm waiting for Letus and Redrock to hit the clearence aisles at Wal-Mart.
Seriously the 35mm lens adapter companies need to drastictly reduce prices and get what's left of the 1/3" cameras outfitted or thier gonna be warehousing a bunch of achromats and spinners. Redrock is pretty smart though, they seem to be embracing DSLRs and transitioning to creating products for the emerging segment. :thumbup:

ydgmdlu
09-01-2009, 07:31 AM
Actually, the 1/3 stop ISO increments can be enabled via a menu setting.

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 07:34 AM
I started film school on monday and they have a red that I have free access to but I'd rather shoot everything with the 7D because I know how to get great looking stuff out of the MKII and it's only going to look better with the 7D.

Yeah but where are the firmware updates to the 7D? And don't use the excuse that the camera just came out, everyone knows new firmware=better, new camera models=fail! (I'm trying but I just can't wrap my brain around the way Red fanboys think :()

manglerBMX
09-01-2009, 07:35 AM
so there is kind of a focus assist in live view mode it appears

"Just as in playback mode you can magnify live view by pressing the enlarge button (or back out again with reduce), to reach 5 or 10x magnification. While magnified you can use the multi-controller to move around the live image. Unfortunately as on the 50D you cannot magnify right out to the extreme corners."


http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page9.asp

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 07:37 AM
Yeah it's the same as the 5Dmkii and it's nice to have 5x and 10x to grab critical focus

KeithAndrews.TV
09-01-2009, 07:39 AM
Don't expect a firmware release for the 5D Mark II enabling 24p recording any time soon (if ever) now that the 7D has been announced and is in production. Canon would never do it alongside the release of a new camera with 24p because they know that it would directly influence the sales of the new camera. Why go out and buy a new camera and lens for a couple grand, when you can just download a free firmware update. It won't happen. Especially now that the 5D Mark II has been out for 12 months. They want you to update every year or so. The cameras may be on a 18-36 month cycle, but the technology is closer to a 6-12 month cycle. Also there was talk about a month or so before the manual control firmware release was official and it was released when nothing else was happening in the industry. We haven't heard even a little bit of a whisper from Canon about a possible 24p firmware update.

manglerBMX
09-01-2009, 07:41 AM
just pre ordered from amazon! zing!

squig
09-01-2009, 07:43 AM
Actually, the 1/3 stop ISO increments can be enabled via a menu setting.

I don't see any mention of ISO control in movie mode at all, just shutter and aperture.

rod_ferro
09-01-2009, 07:46 AM
I don't see any mention of ISO control in movie mode at all, just shutter and aperture.

http://vimeo.com/6370832

Take a look at this ;)

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 07:50 AM
I don't see any mention of ISO control in movie mode at all, just shutter and aperture.

Man owning a D90 then a 5Dmkii has made you really skeptical, guess I can't blame you :)

KeithAndrews.TV
09-01-2009, 07:53 AM
Just watched "The Passage" and man that video is really deceptive! I hope people don't think they are going to be able to run out and shoot video that looks like that. There were so many shots in the video that utilized tilt-shift lenses to acheive that soft-edge look that is not associated with the cameras' DOF capabilities.

Richard J. Johnson
09-01-2009, 07:53 AM
When is it gonna hit the shelves? I just called Service Photo here in baltimore and they had no idea what the hell I was talking about when I asked about pre-ordering the 7D. They have plenty 5DMKII's though.

Richard J. Johnson
09-01-2009, 07:58 AM
Just watched "The Passage" and man that video is really deceptive! I hope people don't think they are going to be able to run out and shoot video that looks like that. There were so many shots in the video that utilized tilt-shift lenses to acheive that soft-edge look that is not associated with the cameras' DOF capabilities.

Some of those shots I liked the least actually. I think anyone who has a good Idea what they are doing can achieve video that looks like that. barring the tilt shift-stuff of course.

I don't know about you, but If I can get fantastic images out of a old HVX with a LEX I am confident that with practice I can murder the 7D. :beer:

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 08:01 AM
Just watched "The Passage" and man that video is really deceptive! I hope people don't think they are going to be able to run out and shoot video that looks like that. There were so many shots in the video that utilized tilt-shift lenses to acheive that soft-edge look that is not associated with the cameras' DOF capabilities.

Links? I wanna see!

EDIT: nvm just found it http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eosd/eosmovie/index.html

Osslund
09-01-2009, 08:02 AM
I can see good use of the GH1 in combination with the 7D. GH1 feels more like a videocam but I don't like to take stills with it. Mainly because a lack of great primes.

Some videos of the 7D seams very nice and some screams of washed out details due to overexposure. Question is if the row skipping is gone and we have scaling?

Dave
09-01-2009, 08:04 AM
I don't know about the US, but here in the UK it is illegal to take money from the card account before the item ships.

Amazon only bills when the item ships.

Dave
09-01-2009, 08:05 AM
Not sure if this has been said before but I think it's worth mentioning. Obviously, there will be lots of comparisons between the MKII and any new Canon camera. But I don't think the crop factor can be too easily dismissed. For video, perhaps 1.6 or 1.3 is OK, maybe even preferred. For photography, though, there is no substitute for FF. So it seems completely reasonable to me that the MKII would be geared to the photographers and another camera (e.g. 7D) be geared toward videographers.

Remember that Canon was completely surprised by the positive hoopla regarding the MKII's video capabilities.

Richard J. Johnson
09-01-2009, 08:06 AM
Links? I wanna see!

http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eosd/eosmovie/index.html

Michael Olsen
09-01-2009, 08:06 AM
Couple of questions:

7d allows live monitoring while recording via HDMI? If so, what resolution(s)?

If I've got $2K for one camera that needs to last at least a year, do I get this or the GH-1? Or should I hold off for a couple of days and wait for more hands-on stuff from people like Kholi?

xbourque
09-01-2009, 08:06 AM
Links? I wanna see!

http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos7d/

The Passage and Line of Sight. Both promo videos made in-house by Canon. Rolling shutter seems somewhat under control in the rally and moto stuff.

Why on earth they shot at high noon in Venice is a mystery to me... bad light!

-X

Lee_B
09-01-2009, 08:33 AM
So how wide would my canon 15mm be on this considering the crop? Something like 20mm? A wild guess.

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 08:34 AM
So how wide would my canon 15mm be on this considering the crop? Something like 20mm? A wild guess.

24 or 15x1.6

Richard J. Johnson
09-01-2009, 08:36 AM
I don't understand the crop thing at all.

Voytech
09-01-2009, 08:37 AM
I just looked at the movies again, both from the 7D and the 5DII. Sorry but 5d annihilates the 7D in sharpness and detail.

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 08:40 AM
I don't understand the crop thing at all.

Just geometry, basically the sensor is smaller and uses less of the lenses output compared to full frame sensors. In the case of APS-C the size is 63% of full frame 35mm still so you multiply by 1.6 to get the equivelant focal lenght. There's arguments about what that really means and if it actually works that way but that's the overwhelming consensus

edbarton
09-01-2009, 08:41 AM
I don't understand the crop thing at all.

focal length of your lens x 1.6. That simple.

entry
09-01-2009, 08:41 AM
I don't understand the crop thing at all.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Full-frame_vs_APS-C.svg

Lee_B
09-01-2009, 08:42 AM
24 or 15x1.6

Thanks.

That's not very wide though. Maybe I'll sell my hmc150 and pick up a 7D to go along with my 5D. The only reason I've been keeping it around lately is for the 60p.

Richard J. Johnson
09-01-2009, 08:44 AM
that's easy. Thanks.

Ian-T
09-01-2009, 08:47 AM
I just looked at the movies again, both from the 7D and the 5DII. Sorry but 5d annihilates the 7D in sharpness and detail....ok...keep telling yourself that...:grin:

puredrifting
09-01-2009, 08:52 AM
The cool thing with the 7D is that you can use the EF-S lenses like the 10-22, which will at least get you 16mm FOV on the wide end. Not too bad.

Dan

Everts
09-01-2009, 09:00 AM
I just looked at the movies again, both from the 7D and the 5DII. Sorry but 5d annihilates the 7D in sharpness and detail.


second that !

entry
09-01-2009, 09:01 AM
If you shoot both stills and video, there's no question that 5D is better, but for video only, 7D is the winner.

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 09:08 AM
Raw image quality goes to the 5D no doubt, but we have yet to see this in the hands of cinematographers we know and love... eachother, yay! After all this clips are mostly from still photographers and web masters :)

Finster
09-01-2009, 09:19 AM
7's the key number here. Think about it ... 7-Elevens ... 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby!

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 09:20 AM
The 7D thread that Jannard started at Reduser.net just got deleted...hmmmmmm?
I think it was the right thing to do personaly, it was stupid to knock a camera that is 0.10 the cost of your only product. Creates a really sketchy vibe.

ryansheffer
09-01-2009, 09:33 AM
Thank you Finster for reminding me of what of my favorite scenes ever. Awesome.

Lee Wilson
09-01-2009, 09:36 AM
Love the auto level indicator - handy for setting up level horizons.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/data//1/rec_imgs/3275_7d_lighthouse_02_preview.jpg

ryansheffer
09-01-2009, 09:38 AM
Yea. A small add on, but man, that will come in handy time and time again.

Richard J. Johnson
09-01-2009, 09:42 AM
Raw image quality goes to the 5D no doubt, but we have yet to see this in the hands of cinematographers we know and love... eachother, yay! After all this clips are mostly from still photographers and web masters :)

But is the image quality better than the HVX200/Letus Extreme? I would say absolutely, positively hell yes. :grin:

Couple that with all the lighting headaches I encounter it really seems like a no-brainer BUT My trusted HVX IS a full-on Video camera.
Yet I'm still a little scared to get rid of it since I know it, but that this was also the same feeling I had jumping from Tape to P2 cards.

Man I am so torn right now.:huh:

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 09:59 AM
But is the image quality better than the HVX200/Letus Extreme? I would say absolutely, positively hell yes. :grin:

Couple that with all the lighting headaches I encounter it really seems like a no-brainer BUT My trusted HVX IS a full-on Video camera.
Yet I'm still a little scared to get rid of it since I know it, but that this was also the same feeling I had jumping from Tape to P2 cards.

Man I am so torn right now.:huh:

I just had the same convo with my biz partner. I DON'T WANT TO GET RID OF MY HVX200a!!! I still have 2 DVX100as 1 is still unused in a box, I'm such an OCD pack rat! But if dont find money I told him I would sell the HVX but what if no one wants the HVX and I can't get squat for it, I just bought it 14 months ago!

ropbo
09-01-2009, 09:59 AM
Just geometry, basically the sensor is smaller and uses less of the lenses output compared to full frame sensors. In the case of APS-C the size is 63% of full frame 35mm still so you multiply by 1.6 to get the equivelant focal lenght. There's arguments about what that really means and if it actually works that way but that's the overwhelming consensus

Does that affect the dynamic range ? (smaller sensor compared to full frame sensor)

Richard J. Johnson
09-01-2009, 10:00 AM
Could you edit the footage on Mac PPC G5 with 4 gigs of RAM? If I have to buy a new computer I'm gonna be none-too-happy.

Barry_Green
09-01-2009, 10:02 AM
Does that affect the dynamic range ? (smaller sensor compared to full frame sensor)
Not necessarily, because the 7D has fewer pixels on the chip. It's individual pixel size, not overall chip size, that contributes to the dynamic range.

mcgeedigital
09-01-2009, 10:02 AM
The 7D thread that Jannard started at Reduser.net just got deleted...hmmmmmm?
I think it was the right thing to do personaly, it was stupid to knock a camera that is 0.10 the cost of your only product. Creates a really sketchy vibe.

Canon is doing to the Scarlet market what RED did to digital cinematography.

It hurts to be on the receiving end.

mhood
09-01-2009, 10:05 AM
Yea, I need a workflow thread. Nothing I have will play the demo mov smoothly and PPro thinks it's 2.99 fps. I've got some workflow homework to do before my 7D ships and I sure hope it doesn't include a new computer and a load of new SW.

Richard J. Johnson
09-01-2009, 10:05 AM
....but what if no one wants the HVX and I can't get squat for it, I just bought it 14 months ago!

Suck comes to mind.

I'm still running the ODB.

I have watched a ton of your videos on vimeo and you get a damn fine look out of the A.

bwwd
09-01-2009, 10:08 AM
Thats nice but gh1 has 24p too and ive yet to see some filmic examples with it,so much entusiasm but no effects.:huh:

Lee Wilson
09-01-2009, 10:09 AM
Could you edit the footage on Mac PPC G5 with 4 gigs of RAM? If I have to buy a new computer I'm gonna be none-too-happy.

You just need to convert the footage into something your computer can ingest, like ProRes.

Ian-T
09-01-2009, 10:11 AM
Not necessarily, because the 7D has fewer pixels on the chip. It's individual pixel size, not overall chip size, that contributes to the dynamic range.
So it’s possible, even with a lower pixel count, if the pixels were larger than the Mark ll it could still match its low light ability? I always understood it as ....the more pixels crammed into a sensor the lower its sensitivity to light and the bigger the pixels the higher the sensitivity.

FatDaddy
09-01-2009, 10:13 AM
Crazy that the 7D is actually a little heavier than the 5D.

Barry_Green
09-01-2009, 10:13 AM
Canon is doing to the Scarlet market what RED did to digital cinematography.

It hurts to be on the receiving end.
Not necessarily; Canon (and Panasonic and Nikon) are doing to the *announced* Scarlet specifications. But since Red's "gone quiet" we don't know what the actual intended Scarlet will be.

I put up a big post here a couple weeks ago saying that IMO the 2/3" scarlet is DBA (dead before arrival), but a full-frame or S35 scarlet, priced competitively (i.e., not $8,000 for a brain alone, but maybe $3,000) might still be very much alive, especially with any wonders that they may have devised or implemented between then and now.

But yeah, a fixed-lens 2/3" scarlet at $3750 has lost pretty much all of its appeal in the face of a $1500 (with lens) GH1 or $1700 body-only 7D, each with a sensor at least 4x as large as 2/3".

Clearly the ball is back in Red's court. They would have to do something phenomenal to recapture the momentum. The landscape is very different now than it was back at NAB 2008. I think they've got it within themselves to deliver something phenomenal; they are, after all, exclusively a digital cinema company, and Canon and Nikon are almost exclusively still-camera companies with video "grafted on", so there's still quite a bit of room for Red to really appeal.

But no doubt the rules have changed. It's no longer a case of "forget anything else, just wait for the Scarlet", it's now a case of "I can't wait to see how the Scarlet's going to be competitive, in light of the new options out there."

Funny thing is, everyone was so jazzed initially about Red because they were a small company that could react quickly, but now it's the behemoths (Nikon/Canon/Panasonic) who are innovating and changing things at a furious pace!

Barry_Green
09-01-2009, 10:16 AM
So its possible, even with a lower pixel count, if the pixels were larger than the Mark ll it could still match its low light ability? I always understood it as ....the more pixels crammed into a sensor the lower its sensitivity to light and the bigger the pixels the higher the sensitivity.
It's possible specifically BECAUSE of the lower pixel count, that they could match the sensitivity.

More pixels = worse imagery, except for in terms of resolution. The more pixels you cram onto a sensor, the smaller they must be, and the smaller the pixels are, the less sensitive the sensor will be, the less latitude the sensor will have, and the noisier the images will be.

So it is possible that with fewer pixels, the 7D may indeed match the Mark II for sensitivity and dynamic range, but won't be able to match it for ultimate resolution. In video that shouldn't matter, since 14 megapixels is a whole lot more than the 2mpix video frame. In still photography, yes that'll make a difference and the 5D should be significantly sharper than the 7D.

Everts
09-01-2009, 10:21 AM
thanks for the insight Barry !

sblfilms
09-01-2009, 10:22 AM
I have to say, that was kind of a bitch move on Jannard's part. Not that I care, I will gladly purchase a S35 scarlet in a couple of years :grin:

Kholi
09-01-2009, 10:22 AM
Funny thing is, everyone was so jazzed initially about Red because they were a small company that could react quickly, but now it's the behemoths (Nikon/Canon/Panasonic) who are innovating and changing things at a furious pace!

And the scariest part is that we don't have to see brochures and wonder when they're coming out. The press release says end of September and guess what we can expect from Canon?

End of September before they're in DVXuser hands. They have the power to do this every single time, and now that they're willing to play then everyone else has to relearn how to step it up in the face of major corporation domination.

I do not discount Scarlet, though. If only for the fact that Jim doesn't play nice when he's mad, which means he plays REALLY nice for what we want. For anyone to think that Scarlet is dead in the water is silly, as there are several major advantages that an S35 Scarlet would have out of box that these cameras still have a little ways to go before we see.

Or, well... crap... at the rate that they're changing, if the rumors of a RAW video format in DSLRs smack of truth then...

Oi...

Mirezzi
09-01-2009, 10:33 AM
Am I correct in assuming that with a relatively inexpensive adaptor, I can mount Nikkor lenses to the 7D?

alexdias
09-01-2009, 10:35 AM
RAW video with multiple rates, on a small (fully video intended) camera!
Yeah, the Scarlet can still be very relevant, but as Barry put it the ball is on Mr. Jannard's court.

puredrifting
09-01-2009, 10:50 AM
The Nikon to EOS adapters are all over Ebay and are cheap but the unknown is if the 7D will have a smaller mirror box that the 5D MKII because it is a much smaller sensor. If the area in the mirror box is significantly smaller, I don't know if Nikon lenses would physically fit into the body of this camera. Perhaps someone else knows? My Canon experience is limited to my 5D MKII, all of my cropped sensor cameras are Nikons.

Dan

morgan_moore
09-01-2009, 10:55 AM
which of your nikkors protrude beyond the adapter - I dont think any of mine do

exept maybe my unmodded 50 1.2 manual

it shoudl be worth emphasing that the chip/flange distance must be the same for eos lenses to work

this brings to the fore a scary thought - the camera may not work if it has 'no lens attached' - im waiting for one of the co.s to pull that nasty trick off - needs checking

S

Richard J. Johnson
09-01-2009, 10:58 AM
Christ Barry how the hell do you keep all this stuff in your head?:beer:

alexdias
09-01-2009, 11:09 AM
Barry has HUGE head! :grin:

John Caballero
09-01-2009, 11:15 AM
Barry has HUGE head!

It expands as more info and knowledge gets in!

Richard J. Johnson
09-01-2009, 11:17 AM
It expands as more info and knowledge gets in!

I think he has some sort of serial port behind his ear to offload and upload information as needed.:thumbup:

Tim Joy
09-01-2009, 11:19 AM
I think he has some sort of serial port behind his ear to offload and upload information as needed.:thumbup:

It's the new built-in P2 slot for your brain.

ryan brown
09-01-2009, 12:35 PM
1. Anyone care to paraphrase what Jannard posted? I missed the post, and am curious...

2. How are you guys pre-ordering?? I don't see that option on Amazon. I want one.

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 12:36 PM
I have watched a ton of your videos on vimeo and you get a damn fine look out of the A.

Thnx bro, I've been borrowing 35mm adapters from friends and now for less than the price of a Letus EX or Redrock M2 setup I can get a whole freaking camera!!!! And I can throw that camera in a jacket pocket :grin:
I'm glad I didnt spend the $1970 on the LEX

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 12:42 PM
1. Anyone care to paraphrase what Jannard posted? I missed the post, and am curious...

2. How are you guys pre-ordering?? I don't see that option on Amazon. I want one.

1 (severe paraphrase) he was saying how canon f--ks over it's customers by not giving the 5Dmkii a firmware update and forcing them to buy a new cam. And how he wouldn't do his customers like that. Then all the fanboys chimed in on how much better the R1 is compared to the 5d/7d yada yada.... yada

2 looks like amazon just killed the 7D page, can't search for it anymore, I went back on it in my history and no more preorder, maybe they got overwhelmed?

dadoboy
09-01-2009, 12:46 PM
Any Scarlet, 2/3" or s35 should have clear advantages over a DSLR. First and foremost to me, is that they probably will have a PL and Nikon mounts that you can back focus and adjust.

These Canon DSLR with ebay Nikon adapter solutions will always mean your lens will not be calibrated for the mount/adapter. This also means for any serious focus pulling, you're distance marks will be all off.

It's like saying because the Canons and GH1 are out, the Sony F23 which is a 2/3" will have no appeal. Yes, it won't have appeal to consumers, but for the serious amateur or pro, the 2/3" or s35mm Scarlet should have those critical features most of us are still waiting on.

The 7D looks appealing though, and should be a great interim or low budget option.

What the real threat to RED will be is a Canon Pro video camera with an XL-H1 form factor, XLR, storage options, etc. That looks to be a clear certainty seeing how responsive they have been to this segment of the video enthusiast market.





I put up a big post here a couple weeks ago saying that IMO the 2/3" scarlet is DBA (dead before arrival), but a full-frame or S35 scarlet, priced competitively (i.e., not $8,000 for a brain alone, but maybe $3,000) might still be very much alive, especially with any wonders that they may have devised or implemented between then and now.

But yeah, a fixed-lens 2/3" scarlet at $3750 has lost pretty much all of its appeal in the face of a $1500 (with lens) GH1 or $1700 body-only 7D, each with a sensor at least 4x as large as 2/3".

dcoughla
09-01-2009, 12:49 PM
1 (severe paraphrase) he was saying how canon f--ks over it's customers by not giving the 5Dmkii a firmware update and forcing them to buy a new cam. And how he wouldn't do his customers like that. Then all the fanboys chimed in on how much better the R1 is compared to the 5d/7d yada yada.... yada

2 looks like amazon just killed the 7D page, can't search for it anymore, I went back on it in my history and no more preorder, maybe they got overwhelmed?

I still have an order in my history for a 7D (w/ kit lens -- no laughing, I'm a DSLR newbie and have no lenses :)). Placed at 10:15pm PST last night.

Cranky
09-01-2009, 12:50 PM
Love the auto level indicator - handy for setting up level horizons.
Canon always steals ideas from Sony.

Finster
09-01-2009, 12:53 PM
looks like amazon just killed the 7D page, can't search for it anymore, I went back on it in my history and no more preorder, maybe they got overwhelmed?

Interesting. Mine's still there. Amazon's 7D page now says: "Sign up to be notified when this item becomes available."

They're now listed on B&H as well.

Tracey Lee
09-01-2009, 12:54 PM
I am getting the same message from Amazon. Well you can pre order from Bust Buy:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9491944&st=canon+7d&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=1218115078883

Pirata
09-01-2009, 12:57 PM
I am getting the same message from Amazon. Well you can pre order from Bust Buy:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9491944&st=canon+7d&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=1218115078883

LOL wtf?

Our Price:
$3,999.99

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 12:58 PM
Any Scarlet, 2/3" or s35 should have clear advantages over a DSLR. First and foremost to me, is that they probably will have a PL and Nikon mounts that you can back focus and adjust.

These Canon DSLR with ebay Nikon adapter solutions will always mean your lens will not be calibrated for the mount/adapter. This also means for any serious focus pulling, you're distance marks will be all off.

It's like saying because the Canons and GH1 are out, the Sony F23 which is a 2/3" will have no appeal. Yes, it won't have appeal to consumers, but for the serious amateur or pro, the 2/3" or s35mm Scarlet should have those critical features most of us are still waiting on.

The 7D looks appealing though, and should be a great interim or low budget option.

What the real threat to RED will be is a Canon Pro video camera with an XL-H1 form factor, XLR, storage options, etc. That looks to be a clear certainty seeing how responsive they have been to this segment of the video enthusiast market.

It's not the 5D, 7D, Gh1 customers that are attacking R1, Scarlet, F23, F35. But those higher end camera owner/user/customers sure seem to be defensive... wonder why... (not really but oh well)

ryan brown
09-01-2009, 12:58 PM
I am getting the same message from Amazon. Well you can pre order from Bust Buy:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9491944&st=canon+7d&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=1218115078883

Pre-order for $3999.00!!!! Nah... I think I'll wait...

mhood
09-01-2009, 01:00 PM
I will NEVER buy from Best Buy again! That is shameful gouging. I got mine from Amazon this morning for $1909.11 with the 28-135mm kit lens.

Kholi
09-01-2009, 01:01 PM
It's not the 5D, 7D, Gh1 customers that are attacking R1, Scarlet, F23, F35. But those higher end camera owner/user/customers sure seem to be defensive... wonder why... (not really but oh well)


It's no different than MKii owners constantly making snide remarks about the GH-1 and other people merely passively encouraging them to continue to do so by saying "oh, stop that you dawg!"

This is what it's been for years and what it's always going to be until everyone suddenly learns that they're all flawed in some way, you pick your weapon and aim true.

Taylor Rudd
09-01-2009, 01:13 PM
The Nikon to EOS adapters are all over Ebay and are cheap but the unknown is if the 7D will have a smaller mirror box that the 5D MKII because it is a much smaller sensor. If the area in the mirror box is significantly smaller, I don't know if Nikon lenses would physically fit into the body of this camera. Perhaps someone else knows? My Canon experience is limited to my 5D MKII, all of my cropped sensor cameras are Nikons.

Dan

I've been using a Nikon -> Canon adapter on my 30D SLR for some time now...no conflicts. The 30D is the great grandfather of the 7D.

I opted out of buying the adapters with the superglued chip...didn't want it to break off inside my camera!

el presidente
09-01-2009, 01:21 PM
I truly despair at this crazy circus of must have.

I had to go and console myself by checking footage i filmed over the weekend with my ex1 and letus elite....gosh that looks nice.



all that said...



Still, glad i sold my d90!!!...
7d will be a great tool to enhance my productions. lol

Dave
09-01-2009, 01:50 PM
I will NEVER buy from Best Buy again! That is shameful gouging. I got mine from Amazon this morning for $1909.11 with the 28-135mm kit lens.

With all due respect, why would you pay $200 for a kit lens when you can purchase a 50mm 1.8 lens for $100 or a 1.4 for $360???

Barry_Green
09-01-2009, 01:56 PM
Because the kit lens is a 28-135 zoom, and that's pretty darn cheap for a zoom.

It's lousy slow though.

Dave
09-01-2009, 02:00 PM
It's lousy slow though.

Exactly! 3.5 @ 28mm and 5.6 at 135mm.

eL ProduceR
09-01-2009, 02:10 PM
I was eyeing the Tokina 16-50 2.8 on Ebay with Nikon mount for when the GH1 was available... but now I might consider the same lens with EOS mount... still waiting for second impressions on the 7D

Barry_Green
09-01-2009, 02:11 PM
Oooh, so another couple of things, looking at the spec sheet:

1080p is at proper video speeds! It's not 30.000 fps, like the 5DMkII, it's 29.970, 25.000, and 23.976. Excellent!

And it's a 5K camera. You can record 5K images at 8 frames per second. Take THAT, Red! :) (okay, seriously, it's not gonna be a Red, but ... dang, 5K at 8fps, that's not too shabby!) Of course, it only lasts for 126 frames, so that means about 15-second maximum takes, but... heck, I wanna play with it and shoot a 5K movie at some dreamy/smeary 8fps rate on a $1700 camera...

720p at proper video speeds of 59.94 and 50.000, gives you three options for slow-mo (1080/30p, 720/50p and 720/60p) plus proper "live" video at 720/60p



Recording limitation of 30 minutes. That's not so nice, but it's way better than a 5-minute limit. Plenty enough for most any cinema work, maybe not enough for event/wedding stuff.

Ooh, a minor nicety, you can create new folders on your memory card. You could establish a new folder per scene, etc.

Of course, using CF cards, it'll infuriate Macbook Pro users. Wish it was SD, but that's a minor quibble.

Has a histogram and highlight alert, good; hope the highlight alert can be set to operate during shooting, unlike the GH1 which only shows during playback.

mhood
09-01-2009, 02:12 PM
Also, in the heat of the moment, $200 seemed like chump change... I get crazy like that sometimes. lol

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 02:17 PM
It's no different than MKii owners constantly making snide remarks about the GH-1 and other people merely passively encouraging them to continue to do so by saying "oh, stop that you dawg!"

This is what it's been for years and what it's always going to be until everyone suddenly learns that they're all flawed in some way, you pick your weapon and aim true.

Def agree, but the 5D and GH1 were the only competitors of eachother for the few months they co-existed before the 7D, so it's a more realistic battle as that was the choice many were facing. Where as R1 users being on the defensive and might I add offensive when it came to Jannard's post on Reduser, is funny and speaks more to the strenghts of the DSLR than thier weekness.

Dave
09-01-2009, 02:17 PM
Also, in the heat of the moment, $200 seemed like chump change... I get crazy like that sometimes. lol

LOL! It happens to all of us.

Kholi
09-01-2009, 02:18 PM
Oooh, so another couple of things, looking at the spec sheet:

1080p is at proper video speeds! It's not 30.000 fps, like the 5DMkII, it's 29.970, 25.000, and 23.976. Excellent!

And it's a 5K camera. You can record 5K images at 8 frames per second. Take THAT, Red! :) (okay, seriously, it's not gonna be a Red, but ... dang, 5K at 8fps, that's not too shabby!) Of course, it only lasts for 126 frames, so that means about 15-second maximum takes, but... heck, I wanna play with it and shoot a 5K movie at some dreamy/smeary 8fps rate on a $1700 camera...

720p at proper video speeds of 59.94 and 50.000, gives you three options for slow-mo (1080/30p, 720/50p and 720/60p) plus proper "live" video at 720/60p



Recording limitation of 30 minutes. That's not so nice, but it's way better than a 5-minute limit. Plenty enough for most any cinema work, maybe not enough for event/wedding stuff.

Ooh, a minor nicety, you can create new folders on your memory card. You could establish a new folder per scene, etc.

Of course, using CF cards, it'll infuriate Macbook Pro users. Wish it was SD, but that's a minor quibble.

Has a histogram and highlight alert, good; hope the highlight alert can be set to operate during shooting, unlike the GH1 which only shows during playback.

I'm gonna frame this post, a testament that even Barry can be openly excited about the release of a non Panasonic Camera. Take that, naysayers.

John Caballero
09-01-2009, 02:18 PM
With all due respect, why would you pay $200 for a kit lens

Its a perfect startup lens. You can add the 50 and whatnot slowly and build up your lens package. Nothing wrong with that.

mhood
09-01-2009, 02:19 PM
I'm sure I'll be in the market for a Nifty Fifty very soon....that and a few 16GB CF cards.

Barry_Green
09-01-2009, 02:21 PM
I'm gonna frame this post, a testament that even Barry can be openly excited about the release of a non Panasonic Camera. Take that, naysayers.
Dude, I've got a JVC HD100, a Sony Z1, a Fuji FinePix something-or-other, a Canon PowerShot SD500, and I had (briefly) a Red One, as well as my stable of Panasonic products -- DVX100B, GH1, HMC150, and HPX170... and a newly-ordered 7D on its way... oh, plus a CP16/R, a Filmo 70 (Super-16, even), and a Super35 Konvas 1M that's been modified to take SLR lenses. I think that means that the majority of cameras I own are non-Panasonic... :D

Dave
09-01-2009, 02:29 PM
Its a perfect startup lens. You can add the 50 and whatnot slowly and build up your lens package. Nothing wrong with that.

Fair enough. I'd still go with a $100 1.8 before a $200 3.5/5.6 but that's me. I'm coming from a photo-first perspective and perhaps that's not the same as a video-first perspective. I don't know.

In any case, your point is valid, "Nothing wrong with that".

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 02:33 PM
I'm gonna frame this post, a testament that even Barry can be openly excited about the release of a non Panasonic Camera. Take that, naysayers.

:grin::thumbup:

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 02:39 PM
Its a perfect startup lens. You can add the 50 and whatnot slowly and build up your lens package. Nothing wrong with that.

The 28-135 is a crap range for 1.6x crop though. I would save the 200 and put it towards the new Tamron 17-50 f2.8 that's coming out and get the 50mm f1.8 for now. If you have a the kit lens and then use the 50, I promise you that you are gonna wanna leave the 50 on there and just walk back and forth all night to get your framing LOL
And anyone wondering about the cheap 50mm lens, I've used it a couple times for stills and vid on the 5Dmkii and it's awesome. The sharpest, brightest lens you can find for a c-note!

mhood
09-01-2009, 02:41 PM
I'm also wondering about a cheap ebay adapter and my 28 and 50 Nikon primes...

Tim Joy
09-01-2009, 02:46 PM
Don't know if it was mentioned before, but I found a release date of 'end of September' and the article here seemed to indicate that it would be a 'body only configuration', so maybe ordering the body only will get it to the door faster?

http://www.i4u.com/article26698.html

Dave
09-01-2009, 02:47 PM
And anyone wondering about the cheap 50mm lens... The sharpest, brightest lens you can find for a c-note!

Spot on!! About the only thing better is the 50mm 1.4.

hepabst
09-01-2009, 02:49 PM
I see no one has bothered to compare it to the D300s, I hear the recycle machine grinding up Nikons as I type!

Tim Joy
09-01-2009, 02:50 PM
I'm also wondering about a cheap ebay adapter and my 28 and 50 Nikon primes...

I was wondering too. You can get one shipped to your door for $12, but I'm not sure it's worth it. Found this thread here about it-

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=174250

xbourque
09-01-2009, 02:57 PM
I was wondering too. You can get one shipped to your door for $12, but I'm not sure it's worth it. Found this thread here about it-

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=174250


If you have Nikon glass already, *do* get adapters! I've had no problem with my Nikon -> EOS from Fotodiox (get them on eBay instead of their website, it's cheaper).

Treat yourself to 1 adapter per lens if you have a small collection... swapping gets tedious quickly (the adapters are meant to stay on the lens, not the body of the Canon camera).

Besides the lack of AF and auto aperture (which is no big deal in video mode), I've had great results with an old 35mm f2 and 50mm f1.4.

-- X

Kholi
09-01-2009, 03:01 PM
Dude, I've got a JVC HD100, a Sony Z1, a Fuji FinePix something-or-other, a Canon PowerShot SD500, and I had (briefly) a Red One, as well as my stable of Panasonic products -- DVX100B, GH1, HMC150, and HPX170... and a newly-ordered 7D on its way... oh, plus a CP16/R, a Filmo 70 (Super-16, even), and a Super35 Konvas 1M that's been modified to take SLR lenses. I think that means that the majority of cameras I own are non-Panasonic... :D


LOL. Already ordered one too!? Now I don't feel so bad for being a bleeding edge junky.

mhood
09-01-2009, 03:06 PM
I also wonder about the 7D's ability to "shoot without a lens". I'd hate to hit that brick wall with my Nikon primes.

xbourque
09-01-2009, 03:20 PM
I also wonder about the 7D's ability to "shoot without a lens". I'd hate to hit that brick wall with my Nikon primes.

I've used "dumb" adapters sucessfully with 5D2, 40D and XTi. It would be *extremely* surprising if the the 7D didn't work with third party lenses.

(The only exception... a friend's XSi didn't accept my m42 adapter, but accepted the Nikon adapter. Both were "dumb"/no chip adapters. This one still baffles me!)

If for some really bizarre reason the 7D required to sense a "Canon" lens, you can always get a "chipped" adaptor with electronics to emulate the presence of a lens.

-X

Nik Manning
09-01-2009, 04:11 PM
Hey Barry - Recording limitation of 30 minutes. where did you see that? I am seeing 12 minutes per clip?

Taylor Rudd
09-01-2009, 04:34 PM
30 minutes of recording time when in SD, 12 minutes at 1080

ChipG
09-01-2009, 04:35 PM
I was also told 12 minutes, there could have been an update today or something that was lost in translation. If so SWEET! I have two pre ordered.

Digigenic
09-01-2009, 04:48 PM
:Drogar-Mark-10(DBG)
Hey, I just wanted to let you guys know that while visiting Canon Rumors today, my PC got hit with a virus.
Just wanted to relay the message for others to take precaution before visiting.

Digigenic
09-01-2009, 05:10 PM
...
And it's a 5K camera. You can record 5K images at 8 frames per second. Take THAT, Red! :) (okay, seriously, it's not gonna be a Red, but ... dang, 5K at 8fps, that's not too shabby!) Of course, it only lasts for 126 frames, so that means about 15-second maximum takes, but... heck, I wanna play with it and shoot a 5K movie at some dreamy/smeary 8fps rate on a $1700 camera...
When using twixtor to help transition between the frames, it does have a cool effect. I believe it was here, in the D90 section, somebody used either a D90 or a D300 in that fashion with twixtor and the results were stunning.
Just be mindful of the limited lifespan of the shutter.

Barry_Green
09-01-2009, 05:21 PM
When using twixtor to help transition between the frames, it does have a cool effect. I believe it was here, in the D90 section, somebody used either a D90 or a D300 in that fashion with twixtor and the results were stunning.
Just be mindful of the limited lifespan of the shutter.
At $1600? I'll just buy another body. And another.

Heck, it used to cost $1200 to rent an F900 for a day.

TimurCivan
09-01-2009, 05:27 PM
i think im officially going to buy a 5DmkII AND a 7D....

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 06:01 PM
i think im officially going to buy a 5DmkII AND a 7D....

I don't know bro... right now I would get the 7D, kit it out and wait on February for the 1Dmkiv. It should be better image than 5D, faster processing and most likely up the video features of the 7D.

f64manray
09-01-2009, 06:32 PM
i think im officially going to buy a 5DmkII AND a 7D....

The little demons in my head were telling the same thing. They would complement each other so nicely. They both make up for the other one's weakness nicely: The 7D with its high 8fps frame rate and superior AF system and the 5DII with its supreme sensor and IQ. Johnny cola has a point though. I'm not doing anything until the 1DsIV is unveiled. I'm not sure that the 1DIV is going to have what I'm looking for. I think the real goodies will be with the 1DsIV.

Digigenic
09-01-2009, 06:39 PM
They would be a nice compliment to one another, especially if the 5DmkII was provided with a firmware update to activate 24/25p.

egzplicit
09-01-2009, 06:40 PM
I keep seeing people speaking about the noise on the 7D being higher than a 5D... well, after seeing the samples from http://www.imaging-resource.com I can't spot such a HUGE difference (the 5D Mark II looks a bit sharper in this test, but that's another story).

http://i30.tinypic.com/13zwu9k.jpg

I can also see A LOT of people talking about razor-thin depth of field... in my opinion the depth of field in the latest 5D videos is TOO THIN. Yes, there it is, I said it. Too thin. If you can, it doesn't mean you should. I can't undestand why people shoot with f/1.4 , f/1.2... what's the point? Everybody who owns a 5D Mark II tries to shoot EVERYTHING with shallow depth of field just because they can, not because there is a reason for it. I was looking at Philip Bloom's blog the other day, he's got some nice footage but God he shoots everything at f/-1. Even the stills when showing some piece of gear are shot using 1mm shallow depth of field (example here is an example (http://philipbloom.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/IMG_01531.jpg)).

As others said, RED one is similar to a 1.6x sensor. Also, when shooting film you have the depth of field similar to a 1.6x sensor.. so why do people complain? Oh, I know: you won't feel your footage is good enough if it's got more then than 1mm sharp? :doh:

morgan_moore
09-01-2009, 06:43 PM
Im in agreement on the DOF if you are trying to follow action

The new version should be about right

At the very wide end im not so sure, Im mulling what lens will be the doda -16-35 probably

on a budget nikkor 18mm

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 07:02 PM
can also see A LOT of people talking about razor-thin depth of field... in my opinion the depth of field in the latest 5D videos is TOO THIN. Yes, there it is, I said it. Too thin. If you can, it doesn't mean you should. I can't undestand why people shoot with f/1.4 , f/1.2... what's the point? Everybody who owns a 5D Mark II tries to shoot EVERYTHING with shallow depth of field just because they can, not because there is a reason for it. .. so why do people complain? Oh, I know: you won't feel your footage is good enough if it's got more then than 1mm sharp? :doh:

Director
And... cut, OMG Lindsay that was amazing! THE LOHAN IS BACK BABY!

Cinematographer
(under his breath)
aww damnit!

Director
What... what's wrong?

Cinematographer
I'm sorry dude but I totaly blew that shot.

Director
Wait what? Everyone hold! (aproaching cinematographer) WTF do you mean? That was the one! Dude you have any idea how hard it is to get a recovering-

Cinematographer
-Man I'm really sorry!... But... here I'll play it back. Ok see right there, I do a focus pull from her left eye to her right eye and...

Director
AWWW WTF!? You're focused on her eye lashes. Her iris is all fuzzy looking! She looks like she's shooting up again!

Cinematographer
Dude I'm sor-

Director
-STFU before I get Christian Bale on your ass!
BACK TO ONE! I'm sorry Lindsay... umm... is there any way I can get you take another bite, you can spit right out before your line... we'll cut to an insert

Ian-T
09-01-2009, 07:11 PM
LOL... I need you to write my next film...lol

TimurCivan
09-01-2009, 07:18 PM
the 1D mk 4 is a totally different class of camera.

Its designed for high speed shooting for news and sports.

Its the nearly medium format 21.1MP is what im after with thhe 5D.

The 7D would be my new cinema camera, for jobs too small for RED.

Rakesh Jacob
09-01-2009, 07:21 PM
LOL... I need you to write my next film...lol

LOL no prob! I'm down :beer:

Digigenic
09-01-2009, 11:22 PM
the 1D mk 4 is a totally different class of camera.

Its designed for high speed shooting for news and sports.

Its the nearly medium format 21.1MP is what im after with thhe 5D.

The 7D would be my new cinema camera, for jobs too small for RED.
I believe the reason the 1DmkIV is already being looked to is because it will represent the best of both worlds between the 5DmkII and 7D. It should have a damn near flawless AF system, given the troubles they encountered on the mkIII.
It's possible that the video functionality could further evolve on the 1DmkIV to include a wider array of shooting formats/codecs as well as some improved audio functionality, but I don't anticipate anything ground breaking. The way the 7D already has 5DmkII users acting antsy, it won't compare to the raw impulsive behavior that will arise after the 1DmkIV is announced.

Richard J. Johnson
09-02-2009, 11:08 AM
Man, don't ditch the HVX! You do some amazing things with it!:thumbup:


the 1D mk 4 is a totally different class of camera.

Its designed for high speed shooting for news and sports.

Its the nearly medium format 21.1MP is what im after with thhe 5D.

The 7D would be my new cinema camera, for jobs too small for RED.

Digigenic
09-02-2009, 05:55 PM
I can also see A LOT of people talking about razor-thin depth of field... in my opinion the depth of field in the latest 5D videos is TOO THIN. Yes, there it is, I said it. Too thin. If you can, it doesn't mean you should. I can't undestand why people shoot with f/1.4 , f/1.2... what's the point? Everybody who owns a 5D Mark II tries to shoot EVERYTHING with shallow depth of field just because they can, not because there is a reason for it. I was looking at Philip Bloom's blog the other day, he's got some nice footage but God he shoots everything at f/-1. Even the stills when showing some piece of gear are shot using 1mm shallow depth of field (example here is an example (http://philipbloom.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/IMG_01531.jpg)).

As others said, RED one is similar to a 1.6x sensor. Also, when shooting film you have the depth of field similar to a 1.6x sensor.. so why do people complain? Oh, I know: you won't feel your footage is good enough if it's got more then than 1mm sharp? :doh:
Yeah, I think it's a part of a learning process with the camera and the lens.
Playing with DOF can be fun, but as you suggested, it has its purpose, it doens't need to be used all the time. With the 7D and the appropriate lens/aperture it should be a little easier to achieve a deeper DOF, but given the magnification factor on primes, I still think we'll see a lot of shallow DOF shots, especially when it's while shooting with available light sources.

TimurCivan
09-02-2009, 06:31 PM
Man, don't ditch the HVX! You do some amazing things with it!:thumbup:

thanks brother... but its an aging machine...

Richard J. Johnson
09-03-2009, 05:18 AM
thanks brother... but its an aging machine...

I know, I know.......damn you:Drogar-Dum(DBG): If you do get the 7D please post your findings. I learned almost everything I know about the HVX from your posts here.

When I fist got it I used to type your name in the search box and just read post after post regarding the HVX.

Okay... I'm done being soft.:beer: FOOOTBAAAALL!

Rakesh Jacob
09-03-2009, 08:38 AM
Okay... I'm done being soft.:beer: FOOOTBAAAALL!

Yeah I was about to say, I've heard of bromance before but... J/K of course, Timur is very talented and you can def learn a lot just stalking him appearently :grin:

Richard J. Johnson
09-03-2009, 08:47 AM
Yeah I was about to say, I've heard of bromance before but... J/K of course, Timur is very talented and you can def learn a lot just stalking him appearently :grin:

Johnny, I would appreciate it if you stayed out of my personal affairs.:Drogar-Evil(DBG):

Rakesh Jacob
09-03-2009, 09:13 AM
Johnny, I would appreciate it if you stayed out of my personal affairs.:Drogar-Evil(DBG):

I'm sorry I have boundry issues :)