Best settings to shoot a concert

[Mike@AF]

I'm going to the Nine Inch Nails concert at the Hollywood Palladium on Wednesday. They have a very relaxed camera policy at NIN shows so I was thinking of taking the GH1. I'm not 100% sure I will as I'm worried about something happening to it.

I've seen people shoot video before, and strobe lights and such tend to wreak havoc on the picture, so if I do and since I've never shot a concert before, what would the best settings be as far as shutter, ISO, etc. I don't think I care about 24fps, so I'd probably just shoot it 720p60 just to help avoid mud and jello from handheld use.

Also, do you think the kit lens would be okay, or would I need the 1.4 or 2 aperture of one of my Zeiss ZF primes?

[paulgandersman]

mike,

first off i'm a HUGE NIN fan, so i'm super jealous you get to go! (i was actually one of the editors on the THIS ONE IS ON US project, if you know what that is. i own every halo on cd and i'm collecting them all on vinyl as well hehe :) )

i have shot a small amount of stuff at a concert, but it didn't have nearly the lighting capabilities of a NIN show. I shot it with my GH1 using a 50mm Canon FD 1.8. And I shot at 720p60 at a shutter of 30, i had to get in all the light I could. I wouldn't even try shooting 1080 handheld at a concert, I think the camera would implode! I think 720 is definitely the way to go. (besides you can always bring it into the computer in post and have your 24p there through conversion!)

you might be able to get away with the kit lens because there's a lot of light at NIN shows on stage. BUT it's kind of a crappy situation because while they'll let you come in with a cam, i doubt they'll let you in with a camera bag with multiple lenses. so what you bring, you'll be stuck with. And if you bring a prime, there's no chance at all of zooming in and what not. You might want to bring your stock lens, just so you can zoom in and out, and in a worst case scenario, just pump up the ISO super high.

here is what I shot at a small concert in Austin, tx:

Petals plays "SECRET" (http://bleutuna.com/paulgandersman/archives/315)

[paulgandersman]

p.s. whatever decision you make, I can't wait to see your footage! NIN + GH1 = :D :D :D

[Martti Ekstrand]

I saw Nine Inch Nails last year and the lighting was primarily a big big LED curtain, (some 2 million LED lights the press said) with incredibly quick changes from super bright to total darkness, rolling / cascading patterns and it was strobe flashes galore as well. Doubt any in-camera long GOP encoding could have kept up with all the changes. It was a full-on assault on both visual and aural perception, I was too mesmerized even to lift the still camera I brought once. I say leave the camera at home and enjoy the show full out, your own memory is the best recorder of something like this. And Trent is considering calling it quits on NIN so don't miss it!

[paulgandersman]

this series of shows will not be using the 3 giant led screens like at the LIGHTS IN THE SKY show, it is much more of strobing lights and fog machines now. there are still some led lights in the back, but nothing close to the effect of the LED screens

[Mike@AF]

Hey Paul,

Nice to know there's another NIN fan here. Yeah, I really wanted Echoplex tickets, but that didn't go so well. I was really surprised when Palladium tickets showed as actually available. I might spend Sunday trying to figure out where they're giving tickets away (if they do), and maybe go hang out outside the Echo to see if I can buy a ticket off someone. If you're in the LA area we can go tag-team the ticket giveaway and/or buying outside the Echo and try to score a couple tickets.

I saw that Petals video a few weeks ago. Really good stuff if it was really dark in there. I would have never known it was that dark in there.

My concern with the NIN concert is that in all the footage that was released that I took a look at a lot of times the strobing lights cause the frames to glitch. I was thinking I would need to be at a higher shutter and frame rate to avoid that, no? That's why I was thinking it maybe needed to be 720p60 with a 1/60 shutter, or maybe even go to 1/120 shutter. In which case I may need to set the ISO to maybe 200, 400, or 800 and have a faster lens. I'd definitely only take one lens. Probably the 35mm f/2 or the 50mm f/1.4. I just don't know what I'd end up needing. And I've never been in the Palladium so I don't know how close I'll be able to get to the stage. If the kit lens would work that would be great so I can use the autofocus and OIS, and even take some RAW stills.

BTW, when is "This One Is On Us" going to actually be released? I've been waiting for that and keeping an eye on the site.

[Mike@AF]

Yeah, it's all about the music and the fans with these shows. I'm just concerned about the strobing lights and my camera getting damaged. Standing room only so I imagine there would be a lot of bodies slamming around.

Trent Reznor isn't calling it quits on NIN completely. He's stated that he's taking a break from touring indefinitely, but would still be recording new music. He might tour again in 10 years or something like that, but may never play the current catalog of music live again (or at least nothing before 2000).

[paulgandersman]

yeah, as far as the strobing goes, i don't have a definite answer as I haven't been in that situation before, but you're probably right, a faster shutter will handle better for sure. personally, i'd rather have better looking shots and angles with the ability to zoom than higher quality image. its gonna be a madhouse and a dirty look might add to the effect. who knows. i can see advantages to a prime lens and advantages to the stock lens. it's kind of a flip of a coin.

my part of TOIOU has been done for ages. (i cut the first 20 minutes of the show). I've been told it should be releasing soon, i'm not allowed to say when.... but i think definitely in a month that starts with the letter O. ;) its just been very few people trying to coordinate a whole lot of people for one project. as far as I know, the "gift" dvd has been done for a while (comprised of the footage Trent released to the public) and the "vegas" dvd is what's taking so long (comprised of fan shot footage at the Las Vegas show - last Lights in the Sky show). i'm anticipating it myself! haha.

man, i would LOVE to come ticket hunt in LA with you, but alas, I'm in Austin, TX and don't wanna make the trip for a 'chance' of getting tickets, you know? (unless you got an extra ticket to your show! :P)

and yes, everything i've heard about this series of shows is that its all standing all first come first served. so you'll probably wanna get there super early to have a good spot, it'd be nice to be up against the rail (front) that way if people are pushing you and knocking into you, at least its just up against your back and not your camera!

thanks for the comments on the Petals video. yeah, it was at this place called Stubbs and they were barely lit, i couldn't believe how dark it was. I pretty much pumped everything up on the camera. I can't remember what ISO I shot at, but it was pretty freaking high (MAYBE 1600 even). I was still just figuring out the camera (had only had it for about a week i think).

[Martti Ekstrand]

Count me as a 3rd NIN fan here. If rock'n'roll had been this good back in the 70s when I was a kid I would never have grown up! :evil:

If you do take the GH1 expect a lot of part frame exposures due to rolling shutter and the encoding choking to death. But then again distortion, both audio and visual, is part of the NIN esthetics innit? :Drogar-Evil(DBG):

Paul, good work on the Petals clip! I missed seeing it on Vimeo before, there's a big GH1 group there you migth want to join: http://vimeo.com/groups/gh1

[Mike@AF]

Cool, we're all in good company!

Yep, those are the kinds of issues which make me wonder if it's even worth bringing the camera. The audio probably won't come out well at all either. Maybe I should just take my H4n and at least get the audio. I'm sure there will be plenty of other people shooting video of all 4 shows out here.

[Nick_K]

What do you guys think is a good way to avoid massive audio clipping with the built-in microphone? Vinyl tape + foam over the mic screens? I usually try to take my G9 (Canon p&s) into concerts, but the mic in these things are easily overwhelmed by the levels of a live show, total distortion. I've had okay results covering the mic hole with a finger, but was wondering if there was a standard bootlegger's recipe for this.

Hope you are able to get a few shots with the GH1, and stay clear of the pit.

OT, how can you tell if cameras are allowed into a particular show? The Palladium always says no recording devices as general policy, but enforcement seems unpredictable, I've been to shows where guys around me whip out camcorders, recording the entire event. I'm thinking about bringing the GH1 to the Grizzly Bear gig next month.

[Mike@AF]

I'm beginning to think I won't be taking the GH1 into the concert. I just don't want anything to happen to it, plus the implementation of the codec just may not handle that kind of show. I'm sure there will be others there with cameras shooting HD. I may take the H4n and get the audio though. Problem is I'm taking the metro to the concert, so if they don't let me in with it I'm screwed.

As far as taking equipment into a particular show, in general you can't. However, Trent Reznor started letting fans bring cameras and audio recording devices into NIN shows starting with the last few shows of the Lights in the Sky tour. He made the announcement at that time and has updated the status of that policy as necessary on nin.com. It's his decision, so the venue typically abides by his wishes.

EDIT: Oh and as far as how to go about recording audio at a concert goes, I have no idea. I've never tried it. If I do take the H4n at least it has a level control.

EDIT 2: Just found out they're doing pro filming/video'ing of the final shows. So I'm not taking anything. Just going to enjoy the show.

[paulgandersman]

one thing to think about for audio, im almost POSITIVE someone will be doing an audio recording so you can probably get the audio from someone else online and sync it up to your video. or you could even grab the audio from a different show. they play to a click track so aside from subtle trent singing changes, the music will be the same.