Any news on the Tiffen IR filter?

[GuyB]

I keep getting burnt time and time again with IR contamination, it disgusts me when I see it. On Sat I had a wedding with the reception dressed in black and silver, well black to the eye... Shooting a lot of dance performances resulted in a lot of black fabrics appearing dirty brown to dark purple. I'd cringe if someone appeared performing in black, Sony should be disgraced.

I am hanging for this Tiffen filter, anyone know any more on its release?

[JDDalllas]

Actually I called Tiffen today about that very same thing. They said that are still working on it. (But I pressed.., on some sort of time line) And said that they are probably just weeks away. And it will be called T1 (or I) IR filter, available in 77mm round and the usual frame sizes. She said to just keep checking their website for the announcement of it. That's all the re-con I got. "so we wait..."

[Chadfish]

I've been getting burned too when I do green screen work. It's disgusting.

[robfilms]

i shoot alot of talking heads where the interviewee is in front of a black duvateen.

could the original poster or others speak of the ir/solid black problems you are referencing?

thanks in advance

be well

rob
smalltalk productions

[Chadfish]

I have just made a small album of shots from a green screen session I did. One shows the IR contamination, one shows my post correction using the 3-Way Color Corrector in FCP. And one, unexpectedly, shows artifacts I picked up while using the Hoodman SxSxSDHC adapter. I am disappointed about this! I was shooting in a melow environment, with nothing bumping the camera, yet I got a little crap happening in 2 or 3 spots over 10 minutes of footage shot over half an hour. But that's another thread....

Here are all 3 shots:

The IR Contamination
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/picture.php?albumid=257&pictureid=1653

The Color Correction
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/picture.php?albumid=257&pictureid=1652

The SDHC Artifact!!!
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/picture.php?albumid=257&pictureid=1651


I guess the IR thing happens when black stuff is heated somehow? From the lights?

Chadfish

[vcfilms]

Still waiting as well. I cant even stand the idea of shooting under tungsten lights. Sony really should be ashamed of themselves releasing a camera with such a big problem IMO. I mean a lot of us have no choice but to shoot in Tungsten lighting only to experience brutal IR contamination.

[ModernDemagogue]

How often do you see compression issues like than when using the Hoodman SxSxSCHD adaptor? I was going to use that as my primary recording media and just have a couple 8gb cards for overcrank — is this a known problem?

[Chadfish]

How often do you see compression issues like than when using the Hoodman SxSxSCHD adaptor? I was going to use that as my primary recording media and just have a couple 8gb cards for overcrank — is this a known problem?


That was the first time I have noticed it. I have not shot a whole lot of footage with the camera. Maybe an hour of SDHC stuff. I can't say 100% that it was due to the card. I may have started recording before the last shot was done writing, which takes 2x as long on SDHC cards. I just wanted to note that it happened.

[vcfilms]

I use the Kensington Reader with sdhc cards and have never experience anything like that before.

[EIREHotspur]

Is this filter going to take care of this problem once and for all for sure??

Not long to wait now.

[Chadfish]

Is this filter going to take care of this problem once and for all for sure??

Not long to wait now.

I hope so. Though it's a drag if you want a polarizer on, but you are getting IR bleed too. Then you need 2 filters on, and you can't use a lens hood in that situation. LAME.

[GuyB]

if anyone sees them avaliable, please let us all know ASAP!

[MPB]

That was the first time I have noticed it. I have not shot a whole lot of footage with the camera. Maybe an hour of SDHC stuff. I can't say 100% that it was due to the card. I may have started recording before the last shot was done writing, which takes 2x as long on SDHC cards. I just wanted to note that it happened.

What is your method for data transfer? Do you use CRC to confirm your writes?

[Chadfish]

What is your method for data transfer? Do you use CRC to confirm your writes?


I don't know what "CRC" means. I just shoot my footage while trying to pay attention that I don't start a new shot until the red "writing" lite is on. Then I connect the camera via usb and use XDCAM Transfer to put the files on my hard drive.

I'm not sure if this has any bearing on the subject, but I use the "Delete All Clips" command rather than "Format" the cards after every use. Doug Jensen said to do that on his Vortex training video. It keeps you from having to rename the card after every use. Though I am not sure if it could possibly leave fragments on the card that could mess up future writing.

Any thoughts on "Delete all clips" anyone?

[robfilms]

Chadfish-

Thank u for taking the time to assist me in "seeing" the problem.

At first glance, i was trying to see the issue but wasn't sure what I was looking for. I'm screening the web via a mac 20" imac but didn't notice any jaggies, squiggles, moires and then it struck me, the guy's shirt is not black but rather some shade of brown!

Is this a lens issue or a Sony processing issue?

Black isn't black under tungsten?

What makes it IR?

Sorry for my newbie type questions. The EX1/3 is a camera system I would love to invest in but these types of issues worry me, especially because I shoot alot of talking heads before a black, out of focus, piece of duvateen.

I wonder if the Panny HPX300 is beset with similiar issues?

Thanks again for sharing.

Be well

Rob
Smalltalk Productions




I have just made a small album of shots from a green screen session I did. One shows the IR contamination, one shows my post correction using the 3-Way Color Corrector in FCP. And one, unexpectedly, shows artifacts I picked up while using the Hoodman SxSxSDHC adapter. I am disappointed about this! I was shooting in a melow environment, with nothing bumping the camera, yet I got a little crap happening in 2 or 3 spots over 10 minutes of footage shot over half an hour. But that's another thread....

Here are all 3 shots:

The IR Contamination
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/picture.php?albumid=257&pictureid=1653

The Color Correction
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/picture.php?albumid=257&pictureid=1652

The SDHC Artifact!!!
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/picture.php?albumid=257&pictureid=1651


I guess the IR thing happens when black stuff is heated somehow? From the lights?

Chadfish

[Chadfish]

Hi Rob

I'm not exactly sure if the IR contamination only happens under tungsten lights. I shot a guy outside yesterday for a bike race ad, and he had black spandex shorts on. It wasn't too prevalent, but I think his black shorts had a very slight brown cast to them. All I know is that Sony didn't put an IR filter (or at least a good IR filter) in front of the sensor, and we have this issue. I believe the RED cameras have the same issue. It's not a deal breaker, because I can fix it pretty easily with the 3-way color corrector. But buying a 150.00 filter is a drag, as is putting it on and taking it off etc. What if I get a WA adapter? Then I need a bigger IR filter? A drag for sure. I doubt there will be any fix from sony because it's not a firmware thing - it's physical. Sony doesn't look back, only forward to the next model.

[Lucere]

I'm not fully sure what lighting conditions can cause this issue with blacks either, but when I google tungsten I find that that means indoor light bulbs that use a filament, excluding fluorescent. When I shot a Golf Event with my EX1, in strong afternoon Los Angeles sunlight, some of the black clothing turned brown and other black clothing remained black...?

[Chadfish]

I'm not fully sure what lighting conditions can cause this issue with blacks either, but when I google tungsten I find that that means indoor light bulbs that use a filament, excluding fluorescent. When I shot a Golf Event with my EX1, in strong afternoon Los Angeles sunlight, some of the black clothing turned brown and other black clothing remained black...?

It has been noted to happen in bright sun light. It may have something to do with the material. I've seen it on cotton shirts outside late afternoon (orange sun), polyester shirt with indoor studio lights (as shown in my examples), and now spandex bike shorts in bright mid-day sun.

[dpryke]

I use the B&W IR filter and it works fine. No IR problem at all.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475095-REG/B_W_65031976_77mm_486_Digital_UV_IR.html

I shot a band promo last month. All the members were in different shades a black. Put the filter on and no problems. Just make sure to white balance with the filter on.

[Chadfish]

Hi Dpryke

Does that filter fit under the EX1 lens hood?
And
Does it have threads on the outside to add another filter if needed?

Thanks.

Chadfish

[thxdave]

I use the B&W IR filter and it works fine. No IR problem at all.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475095-REG/B_W_65031976_77mm_486_Digital_UV_IR.html

I shot a band promo last month. All the members were in different shades a black. Put the filter on and no problems. Just make sure to white balance with the filter on.

Yep, that's the same filter I'm using and it works well. Here's a link to a short test clip I shot under tungsten lighting and you can see it working. The IR problem is also happening outside in sunlight:

http://vimeo.com/4791723

dave

[dazzdeadmeadow]

Hi there,

That filter has reported green vignetting issues. I don't have one but have heard lots of reports of it on full wide shots. Hence why Tiffen are meant to be bringing out the new one. No green casts!

[basspig]

This may be unconventional, but there are Flare adjustments in the service menu, which might be used to skew the blacks away from reddish casts. From my reading on what flare adjustments do, they seem to compensate for the contrast of the lens when bright light is hitting a portion of the lens. Flare affects how the sensor response to the color cast of the black portions of the image.

Granted, it was not the intent of this flare adjustment to correct IR contamination, but there might be some margin of adjustment that could be done to compensate for the color casts with some black materials. It might be the option to crush some reds that are near-black, and end up with slightly more contrast, but it may suppress some red if done successfully.

Really though, why don't cheap consumer cameras have this problem? My V1U had perfect blacks. So does my Canon HV20. I don't see why the EX should have gross color inaccuracy like this. This is really in the realm of a Sony in-warranty fix with no statute of limitations.

[Chadfish]

My guess is that is a planned obsolescence type thing. Pro's pros will not tolerate the IR contamination, and go for the more expensive model that doesn't have the problem. They can't just give you an EX1 that works perfectly now could they? What would be the reason for buying a more expensive camera?

The same thing happened with point & shoot sensors. Around 2004 you were getting awesome sensors in p&s cameras, which affected the DSLR market. So they reduced the size of the sensor, and uped the MP rating, and instilled noise reduction to clean up the mess somewhat so the armatures were happy, but the pros could see the swirly looking swaths of grass or background detail. This happened with the DSC-H9, a camera with DSLR features but point and shoot handy as far as live LCD goes. Awesome camera - but hobbled chip smaller than previous chips.

It's a bit of a game that Sony plays I believe. And good luck getting them to address any design issue.

[basspig]

Yes, good luck indeed. EX sales are booming, so there's no problem, right? ;)

[vcfilms]

So when is this damn thing coming out? It was supposed to be released at the end of July last time I spoke to Tiffen. How long do they want us to wait?

[Lenilenapi]

I was told by Tiffen its only a matter of weeks now..
Lenny Levy