Are you guys still waiting on GH1 keeping your eye on the 7D? [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

Martti Ekstrand

08-31-2009, 02:31 PM

It took Canon from the official release of 5DmkII in November last year to May this year to have it available on shelfs in Sweden - prior to that you had to go to a store and be put on a waiting list for months to get hold of one and many asked for a down payment. Don't know how it was in other countries. The rumours saying that it will have 24 / 25 / 30 in 1080 and 50 / 60 in 720 is making several friends of mine who own a 5DmkII here in a PAL land to grind their teeth to the jaw bone but if true, then Canon has removed a major hurdle for me. Still looks like it's a LCD stuck to the back and a mirror box which makes lens choice more limited compared to GH1.

sunburst

08-31-2009, 02:35 PM

price from canon rumors

Pricing Update [CR2]
These are unconfirmed prices I’ve received from a few sources.

In USA: $1699 Body
In Canada: $1999 Body

............... im on fence . I have gh1 preorders that might need to be
cancelled PRONTO!

sunburst

08-31-2009, 02:38 PM

you can get zoom lenses probably for under 200 bucks.

but Im concerned about AUTO focus?

Ben_B

08-31-2009, 02:41 PM

Gh1 preorders that can be canceled pronto so you're waiting on a 7D preorder for just as long and then the GH2 comes out? Fail.

ajamils

08-31-2009, 02:42 PM

price from canon rumors

Pricing Update [CR2]
In USA: $1699 Body
In Canada: $1999 Body

$1700 for just the body. Add GH1 equalant lens and you'll easily surpass $2500. So that makes it even more unattractive.

sunburst

08-31-2009, 02:46 PM

Gh1 preorders that can be canceled pronto so you're waiting on a 7D preorder for just as long and then the GH2 comes out? Fail.

yeah, but i have other cameras. and I realized I have only done MAYBE
only - 2 DAYS of pro level shoots since the original gh1 pre orders _ May 1?

{ yeah, i have done - advanced tourist type - snapping though -lol}

but.......ITS THE CODEC man. With the right codec. this 7d camera might be a
a keeper.

But the gh1 is totally cool. I love the autofocus.

Okay, lets see..........How much to upgrade the gh1 kit to the gh2 body?

when?

stip

08-31-2009, 02:50 PM

In an older (maybe 1 week) rumor I read that 7d's video mode will best 5dmkII's. Now that specs are out, I don't know if just the variable framerates were meant or if there will be more.
If the price rumors for europe are true (1300€ 7D compared to 1500€ GH1), this might be a tough GH1 competitor here considering codecs.

Oh and Nikon is supposed to announce the D700s soon, which will be full frame 1080p dslr...

e-steve

08-31-2009, 04:01 PM

portishead

08-31-2009, 04:09 PM

The 7D looks very promising at least from preliminary specs. No autofocus might be a deal breaker to me since I rely on it a lot (I'm not shooting professional films).

e-steve

08-31-2009, 04:31 PM

This is a good one!
http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/08/31/someones-not-happy-about-the-release-of-the-canon-7d/

Martti Ekstrand

08-31-2009, 04:39 PM

"30p was the new 24p they said!!"

stip

08-31-2009, 05:02 PM

haha

mtan

08-31-2009, 05:13 PM

funny but that hitler video looked like it was shot in 30p to me :)

mcgeedigital

08-31-2009, 05:31 PM

I guess if you have Canon lenses already, it's an easier choice. I have been a Nikon DSLR user for some time, but would consider moving to the 7D (selling my Nikon lenses).

I love my GH1 - but still I love the consistency I still get from my old Nikon D70 still images (which I can't seem to get from my GH1 yet).

It's getting interesting to say the least!

Good God man don't sell the glass! I use ALL of my Nikon Primes with both my 5Dmkii and the RED One that I rent.

Nikon makes kick ass glass, even if their DSLRs suck for video.

yslee

08-31-2009, 05:36 PM

I guess if you have Canon lenses already, it's an easier choice. I have been a Nikon DSLR user for some time, but would consider moving to the 7D (selling my Nikon lenses).

I love my GH1 - but still I love the consistency I still get from my old Nikon D70 still images (which I can't seem to get from my GH1 yet).

It's getting interesting to say the least!
I'm taking an exception with this! I'm finding the GH1 standing well to a D300. The D300's better in many ways, but the GH1 is no slouch. What problem are you having with the still photos?

Martti Ekstrand

08-31-2009, 06:00 PM

Good God man don't sell the glass! I use ALL of my Nikon Primes with both my 5Dmkii and the RED One that I rent.

Nikon makes kick ass glass.

I concur. Get a Nikon F adapter if you go for the 7D.

e-steve

08-31-2009, 08:08 PM

Easy guys! I am not switching to a 7D... I am sticking to my GH1 for now.

I think my stills just aren't as consistently crisp (and in focus) as my D70. It may just be me not being used to the GH1 yet... I tend to be surprised by photos on my computer sometimes when I take them off my GH1, where I am less so with my D70.

Also, I do miss the responsiveness and certainty of the focus with my true D70.

I do get great images out of my GH1...just not consistently. I'm working on it!

I would assume though, that getting a 7D you might not get the "autofocus" with Nikon glass...so you'd want to have at least a good Canon lens to go with it.

I'm sticking to my GH1 for the next year at least, since I think every year these cameras are going to make bigger leaps ahead.

luke stewart

08-31-2009, 08:42 PM

I was going to order a GH1 this month, in order to get the bing cash back, but something kept telling me wait, wait... I had even bought some FD mount glass off ebay in anticipation.

I may still get a GH1 but right now I am heavily leaning toward the 7D. Exciting times!

Boz

08-31-2009, 08:50 PM

Just got my GH1... no regrets. It still has a flip out screen which is immensly useful, along with the killer lens that does smooth auto-focus & auto-exposure (when needed) that no other camera out there can match. Both camera & lens for less than the price of the 7D body alone... sounds like a deal to me. But man, Panasonic REALLY needs to fix the codec! Brutal.

luke stewart

08-31-2009, 09:30 PM

Both camera & lens for less than the price of the 7D body alone...

Wait, where are you getting this info? I thought the price was undetermined so far.

Barry_Green

08-31-2009, 09:40 PM

Some people are saying $1600, some have said $2700 for body alone. We should probably find out tomorrow...

Ozpeter

08-31-2009, 09:52 PM

I guess actual results speak loudest, but the GH1 (with stock lens) is designed for video as well as for stills, while any other DSLR to date is designed for stills with video added on. The 7D has (I imagine) a mirror and a fixed rear screen, and to me that says "tacked-on video functions" rather than the ground-up rethink that went into the GH1 design process.

dcloud

08-31-2009, 09:54 PM

the 15-85 kit lens is alone a great range... (24mm -136mm) im guessing its not as pricey as a 18-200

luke stewart

08-31-2009, 10:02 PM

The 7D has (I imagine) a mirror and a fixed rear screen, and to me that says "tacked-on video functions" rather than the ground-up rethink that went into the GH1 design process.

Maybe they should have rethunk the codec and the bitrate from the ground up too.

ryansheffer

08-31-2009, 10:29 PM

http://gizmodo.com/5349829/canon-7d-dslr-first-hands-on-18-megapixels-24fps-full-hd-video-for-1900?skyline=true&s=i

$1900 with the 28-135mm lens (I own and love). If the lowlight holds up at all, this is my favorite camera ever created.

sunburst

08-31-2009, 10:52 PM

ryansheffer

08-31-2009, 11:22 PM

Not sure about specs for autofocus with 7d. GH1's autofocus is incredible, but IMO its the best part of the camera.

FWIW, I just preordered a 7d and put my GH1 on craigslist. PM if you want a GH1 package, less than a month old. Especially if you're in the Los Angeles area.

The GH1 is an awesome camera, just not for me.

luke stewart

08-31-2009, 11:22 PM

This is so rad, I'm buying one!!! Sucks about the 720p/60fps though. Oh well, that's what twixtor is for.

ryansheffer

08-31-2009, 11:32 PM

7d has 60p.

08-31-2009, 11:37 PM

Video out?

luke stewart

08-31-2009, 11:46 PM

7d has 60p. Oh, sweet! I missed that. Getting sleepy, time for night-night.

ryansheffer

09-01-2009, 12:00 AM

Has video out. Not sure if it is compressed or HD during recording.

Ozpeter

09-01-2009, 01:00 AM

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090105canoneos7d.asp

EOS Movie
The EOS 7D features an improved movie function allowing users to record Full HD movies with full manual control and selectable frame rates. The operation of the movie function has been improved to make it easier to use via direct access to settings with dedicated buttons. AF can now be started by either half pressing the shutter button or using the AF-ON button as before.

The exposure of the movie can be controlled in Manual mode allowing full control of shutter speeds and apertures. It is possible to select frame rates from: 30 (29.97), 25, and 24 (23.976), with 60 (59.94) and 50 available at 720p. ISO can be set automatically or manually in the range (100-6400) and is expandable to 12800. EOS 7D also allows users to trim and cut their movies. LCD only has 30fps refresh, which is half that of GH!??

No built in stereo mic.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page13.asp summarises video features.

Fluke

09-01-2009, 01:04 AM

Oh, for fu-...

If I had waited one month... Not only that but the re-sale on the GH1 has dropped significantly as the price has dropped here in Australia. That and there's not going to be anyone that wants to buy a GH1 if it's essentially just the (much cheaper) G1 with HD video that is (probably) going to be trumped by a competitor.

And I could have stayed with what I know, too: Canon. Bah.

Goddammit.

Ben_B

09-01-2009, 01:13 AM

The 7D does not have an articulating LCD or and EVF and the videos I have seen from it so far don't look nearly as nice as any of the GH1 stuff I've seen...so don't despair. I think the GH1 is still top dog when it comes to those of us using only video functions.

ryansheffer

09-01-2009, 01:16 AM

ryansheffer

09-01-2009, 01:23 AM

http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos7d/

sunburst

09-01-2009, 01:25 AM

Fluke

09-01-2009, 01:38 AM

too bad. well you didnt know.

Sigh. Yeah, there was no way I could have known. And I'd already put off buying a new camera for a while to see how the field played out... But apparently I didn't wait quite long enough.

I think I'm just going to wait to see the price of the 7D in Australia, the quality of the images, and some hands on film making opinions and then weigh up whether the loss I will incur selling the GH1 would be worth it. I'm thinking probably not...

I suppose, after all I still have in my hands a piece of equipment that was taking the video world by storm very, very recently. It's not as if the GH1 has gotten any worse. It's just a pain knowing that I could have stuck with Canon, as they have done me well in the past.

I just hate being superseded. *Grumble*

Ben_B

09-01-2009, 01:41 AM

I would be willing to bet good money that the 7d will overthrow the GH1 in every category but those you mentioned and autofocus.

For most filmmaking the GH1's bitrate and codec just doesn't hold up. Of course thats only an opinion.

At some point you have to have something that's nice to shoot on. Have you shot on a 5D and a GH1? There's no compare. Using the 5D after using the Gh1 is like pushing your car down the street instead of driving it. Sure you'll get to the same place eventually, but doing one is a whole lot harder on your arms and takes a whole lot longer.

The lack of an EVF (not necessarily a bad thing, mirror box is better for photographers) an articulating LCD screen, it's large size, etc, make the 5D a total pain to use and the 7D seems very similar in this regard.

The GH1 really behaves more like a video camera when you're using it and for that I love it.

As long as you can get a great image out of it there's no reason to say it won't hold up and we've been getting great images with it...a whole lot better than the few bits of 7D footage floating around out there.

Martti Ekstrand

09-01-2009, 01:50 AM

http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos7d/

OMG, not even the pro photographer Canon has hired to promote this camera understands to use ND filters to keep shutter speeds down to avoid strobe jerky motion.

It's from a pre-production unit so shouldn't draw too hard conclusions from samples but the paris wheel 1080 Quicktime clip that Gizmodo posted on Vimeo got some pretty coarse aliasing crawling at hard edges and lines plus looks rather softish, a very odd combo. Could be bad re-encoding. Would be interesting to see the camera original clips. And the bug clip on top of the aliasing has several occasions of frame jumps / freezes at light changes that has also been shown in some 5D footage.

Ben_B

09-01-2009, 01:51 AM

Yeah that Gizmodo thing is fail. That footage..well...blows. I'm arguing merits of video DSLRs all up and down that thread to skeptical photographers, using the GH1 as an example of when it's done right.

ryansheffer

09-01-2009, 02:03 AM

I own both a GH1 and a 5d. I wanted to love the GH1 so much that I would sell my 5d. The truth is the I just didn't think the footage held up. The usable dynamic range and the codec are sooo much worse on the GH1. At the end of the day I'm more willing to do workarounds than I am to get a lesser image.

My opinion of course.

Also - for what its worth I just helped produce a web series for the show vampire diaries coming out on the CW. We heavily tested my 5d and GH1 side by side. The DP wouldn't go near the GH1.

ryansheffer

09-01-2009, 02:04 AM

Watch line of sight on the canon japan site.

Ben_B

09-01-2009, 02:06 AM

Do you have your scene settings adjusted on the GH1? Are you shooting contrast -2?

I've found the dynamic range on the 5D to be problematic because it clips everything out with it's high contrast.

Marrti, that video sort of exemplifies how the vDSLR marketing is going:

Panasonic hires Philip Bloom for GH1 promo and puts out a video that looks great, but was shot on $10,000 primes mostly and has little movement in it to hide potential codec problems.

Nikon puts out a video for D300s that is more photos than video.

Canon puts out a video where the operator didn't know the first thing about filming anything.

Ben_B

09-01-2009, 02:09 AM

Watch line of sight on the canon japan site.

I see a lot of rolling shutter, choppy footage, ghosting, and a blocky codec. Seriously. Wow. Not very impressed at all....does the guy who shot this not understand the way shutter speed effects video or the way an NLE handles footage when the framerate changes in a timeline (or is hacked low thanks to slow shutter?)

ryansheffer

09-01-2009, 02:16 AM

I have done all that can be done with the settings of the GH1.

With that said, the out of box image that comes with the GH1 (once the contrast, saturation settings have been made) is much nicer (color wise) than the 5d, however I spent a solid 3 weeks tweaking my settings using picture style editor with the 5d. The final result is amazing compared to where the camera started - especially in terms of dynamic range.

sunburst

09-01-2009, 02:16 AM

I own both a GH1 and a 5d. I wanted to love the GH1 so much that I would sell my 5d. The truth is the I just didn't think the footage held up. The usable dynamic range and the codec are sooo much worse on the GH1. At the end of the day I'm more willing to do workarounds than I am to get a lesser image.
.

well ive been on the fence. I never preordered a gh1 till recently.

I do a lot of post work, so codec is very important. Im leaning hard toward
the 7d now. although ill miss the 43 form factor and auto focus.

ryansheffer

09-01-2009, 02:18 AM

Ben B. wow. We will agree to disagree.

Ben_B

09-01-2009, 02:23 AM

I'm not saying the 7D can't put out a decent image, I'm sure it can, I'm just saying why the hell did they hire a guy that can't shoot video for crap?

I do a fair amount of post work on my stuff and yeah I've seen the codec break down when you hit it too hard with filters, etc. I see where you're coming from on that. It doesn't bother me so much though because I'm used to already dealing with HVX footage which you don't want to smack around too hard in post due to grain.

What's your workflow? I put my stuff into ProRes LT and I've noticed once it's actually in a decent codec in post (10 bit, etc) it seems to handle things a lot better. Are you editing natively because I bet that would suck for doing image work in post.

sunburst

09-01-2009, 02:32 AM

I
What's your workflow? .

well my workflow varies.

but production wise, quite a bit of green screen. I know the 5d has good reports
on this , so the 7d should be at least as good.

I know too, the mud problem seems to effect the green channel badly.
{ what ive read here }. so im thinking the gh1 is NOT a good candidate
for screen work. { sure, the odd shot should be ok }

ryansheffer

09-01-2009, 02:35 AM

For what its worth I am an editor and visual effects artist that edits in final cut. The defacto standard is Prores. I haven't upgraded to 7 yet due to not being in between projects, but I have been working in Prores HQ using Neoscene to convert and then using cinema tools to conform to 29.97 so that the footage will work with my Matrox box.

It kinda blows my mind that you claim to be a post guy and you can't see the problems with the GH1 codec-wise when compared to Canon's H.264. There really is no comparison. I just finished a project that was a two camera shoot, one GH1, one 5d. I literally won't be using most of the GH1 footage because it doesn't hold a finger to the 5d footage.

The real test always comes in post. The 5d image stands up to grading, the GH1 does not. I'm sick of working with such limited formats. Color correcting GH1 footage reminds me of HDV. And your claim of blockiness in the codec is something I have never seen. Three weeks ago myself and a very successful DP did side by side tests with the 5d and GH1, trying to "break the codec" by doing things like running around in front of the camera holding a bright red shirt in the air while shooting at an F11-13. The 5d held up suprisingly well. The GH1 looked horrible. Red blocks everywhere. All I can say is that these are my experiences.

Ben_B

09-01-2009, 02:58 AM

I was referring to how crummy the 7D footage looked, at least what's up right now, especially in the canon videos, not 5D footage.

I shoot 720p almost exclusively, this might be where we're having our disconnect? The 720p on the GH1 holds up a lot better than the 1080p does.

I do a fair amount of color correction on my footage and so far I've been happy with it, reducing contrast, (slightly reducing) saturation, noise reduction, and increasing sharpness a step in camera seems to really allow you a lot more flexibility and let you push things a lot harder before it breaks. I tend to shoot for as low-contrast as I can get and that way when you increase it in post and tweak other things you have a lot of leeway.

The stuff looks pretty darn good to me.

I dunno. Let me know what you think of this: http://www.vimeo.com/6340277 It's pretty heavily graded throughout believe it or not (but with a montage there's not that much consistency shot to shot, wasn't going for a specific look.)

Ben_B

09-01-2009, 03:07 AM

I'd say the shot near the end of the theatre that racks in from bokeh is an example of how the codec can have some problems, especially when grading, but part of the reason was that that was 720p and zoomed in quite a bit to do image stabilization in post. I was running and gunning. For most narrative work I'm going to have a tripod or some other stabilizer.

Ozpeter

09-01-2009, 03:23 AM

I would have thought that if someone launched a video-only camera with no viewfinder and a fixed LCD on the back of it at a high price, it would be regarded as a bit of a joke surely? The fact that it also takes photos isn't the key thing here. I guess if there's live output from the hdmi it could tip the scales a bit, but otherwise, it would be rather restricting in use?

Ozpeter

09-01-2009, 04:49 AM

And....

Max file size per clip 4GB, max duration 29min 59sec, Running time 12 min for 1080P, 12 min for 720P, 24 min for VGA
Hmm, not sure what they mean by "running time", but there do seem to be some odd restrictions here which could affect people doing event stuff.

Ozpeter

09-01-2009, 05:08 AM

And....

• Remote live view using EOS Utility 2.0 (via USB or WiFi/Ethernet using WFT)

according to the DPReview preview report.

Ozpeter

09-01-2009, 05:45 AM

Thinking about this whole live view lcd vs proper viewfinder thing, I just tried pointing the GH1 at the 22" PC monitor at my normal viewing distance, and keeping my other eye open. The size of the viewfinder in my right eye almost exactly overlays the image of the 22" inch monitor in my left eye - in other words, the angle traversed by your eye when going from the left side of the GH1 viewfinder to the right side is the same as it would traverse if looking from the left to right side of a 22" monitor at a normal viewing distance.

In effect, looking in the GH1 viewfinder is the same experience as looking at a 22" monitor.

To get the same experience from its LCD (or that of any other DSLR LCD) you'd have to hold the LCD about four inches from your eye, which in my case is somewhat too close for my eye to focus on.

IMHO a viewfinderless video camera is severely hobbled from the outset particularly for manual focus, even with focussing aids.

J Davis

09-01-2009, 06:19 AM

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090105canoneos7d.asp

LCD only has 30fps refresh, which is half that of GH!??

No built in stereo mic.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page13.asp summarises video features.

Is this definite? (I'm wondering about sync)
If its line-in only is there any info on AGC?

yslee

09-01-2009, 07:05 AM

My goodness we have a Canon fanboy in here, don't we?

My only comment about the camera itself is that Canon finally adopted the nice matte and flat buttons like that on the Nikons. I've never understood how anyone could've put up with those fidgety slippery buttons on a Canon SLR! Canon actually takes pride of it as part of their design trademark for SLRs.

Ben_B, love the comment about marketing. In that same vein, video DSLR technology implementation is similar to how Canon and Nikon implement new stuff. Nikon takes a shot at it (F3AF, D1, D90 for AF, digital, and video respectively), Canon comes and creams them for a bit, and a few years later they come up with very competitive models, either in technical specifications or in the marketplace.

yslee

09-01-2009, 07:09 AM

stip

09-01-2009, 07:47 AM

There's an interesting rumor that Nikon seems to work on a kinda "Raw" Codec for it's video, similar to it's NEF for stills. It's from the same nikon rumors source that talked about a FF 1080p video dslr some weeks ago which appears to be true
Let's hope...

mtan

09-01-2009, 07:53 AM

the 7d is just out of my price range, if it were 1600 with a lens I would go for it. Probably the GH1 for me.

Trankilstef

09-01-2009, 08:35 AM

the 7d is just out of my price range, if it were 1600 with a lens I would go for it. Probably the GH1 for me.

And I really assure you won't regret it if you plan to use it mainly for its video capabilites.... :)

ramdop

09-01-2009, 08:40 AM

gdfoto

09-01-2009, 08:55 AM

" A half-press of the shutter button or a press of the AF-ON button will trigger the AF. AE lock is possible as well."

that mean it has AF in video

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page3.asp

Well, the 5D Mk II has this feature as well, but it isn't quite the same as AF on the GH1. Pressing the button either flaps the mirror up, focuses, and then returns to Live View, or the image gets way bright and wavvy as it live focuses. So... "Yes" there is AF during video, but its not really usable while shooting, only to set focus before shooting. Or at least that is all I have personally managed to find it useful for.

Boz

09-01-2009, 08:58 AM

Hmmm.... I'm really torn here. i JUST bought GH1 this weekend. I have 10 days to return it (store credit) so I could put myself on the list for a 7D... what to do, what to do...

billy fattey

09-01-2009, 09:21 AM

I've had my GH1 for almost a month and it is by far the most fun and useful camera I have ever owned. With old nikkors and tiny little c-mount lenses I feel like I'm walking around with a S16mm camera with an infinite roll of film and no processing fees.

But I pre-ordered the 7D last night as soon as Amazon listed it. Bitrate, bitrate, bitrate. If Panasonic somehow releases firmware soon that increases the bitrate, I'll cancel the 7D. Even with the hassle of reversing pulldown, the GH1 has so many great features for video (c-mount lenses, flipout lcd, great mic for ambient sound) that I didn't know I cared about until I got them.

Luckily, we live in a world where ebay will give us back most of any investment in camera and lenses so we can experiment. I plan to follow whatever camera gives me the highest quality 24 fps images.

chrisccw

09-01-2009, 09:48 AM

Amazing to me that the 7D has 18mpbs--we were told for months that the GH1 17mbps wouldn't hold up with lots of grading. Really? I think not!

Ian-T

09-01-2009, 09:54 AM

Amazing to me that the 7D has 18mpbs--...I'm confused. The video is more like 47Mbps on the 7D.

I think maybe you’re confusing it with having 18 Megapixels and not Mbps. It’s data rate is almost 3 times that of the GH-1.

chrisccw

09-01-2009, 09:56 AM

oops, sorry. corrected!

ajamils

09-01-2009, 09:59 AM

In the released pics, I do not see a stereo mic..........am I missing something ? Also, I'm not to excited about the design....it still looks like all other (ugly as sin) DSLR cameras.

Barry_Green

09-01-2009, 10:02 AM

In the released pics, I do not see a stereo mic..........am I missing something ? Also, I'm not to excited about the design....it still looks like all other (ugly as sin) DSLR cameras.
The 7D has a mono mic. But it has a stereo mic input jack.

Tameside

09-01-2009, 10:12 AM

therefore you can rule the af out as a reason to buy to the gh1! also, most of the best gh1 footage is on a tripod or stabiliser, therefore you can rule the rolling shutter out too, that leaves us with the evf, this could be a reason but you'd need to weigh that up against the size of the 7d against the gh1 too. For many casual users the gh1 is more than enough but I can well believe unless the gh1 bitrate and mud is sorted that many will choose the 7d, and use a remote monitor or custom hood for the lcd.

tony240sx

09-01-2009, 10:15 AM

my gh1 should arrive tomorrow. I am torn a little my this announcement but, I will have something to shoot with tomorrow that from what I have seen produces pretty amazing images in the right hands. I can always sell it for a few bucks loss and buy the 7d down the road if it proves to be the beast it is being made out to be already.
The main problem I hear is the codec issue with the gh1. I already have an hmc150 with avchd so is there a difference between the way the hmc and the gh1 processes the codec or will gh1 footage be the same as my hmc. I am asking because for my needs the hmc footage has held very well for me and I am happy with it. Basically is there going to be a drop in durability of the avchd footage from the gh1 as compared to the hmc?

Barry_Green

09-01-2009, 10:18 AM

There is a difference. The AVCHD implementation in the HMC150 is substantially better than the AVCHD implementation in the GH1.

tony240sx

09-01-2009, 10:21 AM

There is a difference. The AVCHD implementation in the HMC150 is substantially better than the AVCHD implementation in the GH1.

Thanks Barry, although thats not what I was hoping to hear.
At least I can start experimenting with a hdslr tomorrow and I'll see what happens. When the 7d comes out I will probably sell the gh1 for a loss and get it, just in time for some new and improved camera to come out.
Then the cycle begins again.
SELL
BUY
REPEAT

marcosanax

09-01-2009, 10:31 AM

i ordered gh1 today, i feel good with 720p. i waited to see 7d official video specs and quality: codec rate 45/Mbps in 1080 and 720p mode and very good image quality... it's a big gun guys, but no video AF and no flipping lcd...

imaging resource talks about 7D video performance... NO AF WHILE SHOTING!!!

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E7D/E7DVIDEO.HTM

Ben_B

09-01-2009, 10:37 AM

Looking at the Canon footage on this page the codec really doesn't look that good, very fuzzy, blocky, chunky, muddy, dirty, take your pick. (on top of that the filmer doesn't really seem to know what he's doing...I see shutter speed issues, ghosting, and rolling shutter.) For all those currently measurebating I'd say wait till you actually see some good footage out of the thing before you jump ship. But I guess you're probably safe putting in a preorder.

I'm just happy to see video people are stoked on all these cameras, they're getting a bad rap for doing video from a lot of photography elitists on various forums.

Chris Watson

09-01-2009, 10:44 AM

As an event videographer, the 12 minute time limit kills the 7D for me. Who wants to fiddle with the camera during the ceremony or a long toast? I can see if you're doing other kinds of video work that the 7D is a gamechanger. My hope is that it'll translate into resellers lowering their prices for the GH1. Something I can see with the 7D competing for that market segment. Fingers crossed for a $1299 (or lower) GH1 soon!

Boz

09-01-2009, 11:15 AM

Just called the camera store. They will take back my GH1 in exchange for the forthcoming 7D. I have a few days to think about it. Honestly if Panasonic had given ANY indication that they were going to fix their broken codec on the GH1 I'd probably keep it. But with the robust codec, extreme low-light capability, multiple speeds, excellent stills capability, and the ability to use my existing Canon glass on the 7D, it's hard to pass up. Sorry Panasonic you had your chance (I signed the petition and emailed them a half dozen times - never getting a response).

John Caballero

09-01-2009, 11:23 AM

Looking at the Canon footage on this page the codec really doesn't look that good, very fuzzy, blocky, chunky, muddy, dirty, take your pick.

None of the above, both samples from the Canon website look absolutely stunning.

mtan

09-01-2009, 11:36 AM

um, maybe I will pass on the GH1 afterall.

Tim Joy

09-01-2009, 11:45 AM

The 7D footage that's out there now reminds me of what the D90 video looked like, minus the extreme jello and mega stair-stepping of course.

I'll be hanging onto the GH1 till the 7D arrives and weigh the pros/cons then when I can do a side-by-side shootout.

Ben_B

09-01-2009, 11:49 AM

None of the above, both samples from the Canon website look absolutely stunning.

You're kidding right?

Ian-T

09-01-2009, 11:52 AM

Wow….not even close. Which footage did you see? If you are talking about the Vimeo footage…then whoever uploaded that did it in lower res. Check out the footage on Canon’s site called “The Passage”…the D90 comes no where close to that. Like John said..."it's stunning."

stip

09-01-2009, 11:53 AM

Looking at the Canon footage on this page the codec really doesn't look that good, very fuzzy, blocky, chunky, muddy, dirty, take your pick.

I agree with John, I think it's great and very promising considering the footage has obviously not been recorded properly.
And I don't think the codec can be any worse than 500D and 5DII.

ajamils

09-01-2009, 11:53 AM

You're kidding right?

I'm sure he must be cuz all the footage that I've seen so far looks like crap.

Ben_B

09-01-2009, 11:56 AM

I'm watching Line of Sight and The Passage. They both have stuttery terrible shutter speed issues and ghosting caused by the filmer not knowing what they were doing. The codec is really blocky and gross on high movement stuff. Everything is kind of jaggy and falling appart. There is rolling shutter on areas with motion. The last part of line of sight looks decent, but everything else seems really washed out, muddy, and D90esque (and I already thought of D90 footage as kind of like HD cellphone footage with Nikon glass strapped ot the front.)

Maybe some of this can be blamed on the web, maybe not, but as many of us are doing a lot of web work that's problematic. I've noticed with the GH1 that web uploading can actually hide a lot of the problems (especially if you're not watching full screen) rather than aggravating them.

I really think the GH1's codec issues are overblown. The 5D has excellent implementation, but this 7D stuff doesn't look anywhere close to the way the 5D footage does in terms of the way the codec seems to hold up, and so I am highly skeptical of it as a video camera until I see more footage. I bought the Gh1 despite the known issues because people were putting out amazing footage with it, and if this crap is the best that Canon marketing can do (note that the Philip Bloom Joshua tree video made for Panny is often one of the first linked Gh1 videos of a perspective buyer...the videos made to sell the camera should represent the best of what the camera is capable of) then they're in serious serious trouble.

I'm sure the camera is capable of better, but if it's coming out of canon we should be able to see that by now, and we haven't, which gives me pause.

Car3o

09-01-2009, 12:15 PM

Nitsuj

09-01-2009, 12:20 PM

*snicker*

anthonybsd

09-01-2009, 12:22 PM

The 5D has excellent implementation, but this 7D stuff doesn't look anywhere close to the way the 5D footage does in terms of the way the codec seems to hold up, and so I am highly skeptical of it as a video camera until I see more footage.

Not sure about codec performance but sensor seems very capable. Low light from 7D looks on-par or better than 5D which is quite strange to me.

Ben_B

09-01-2009, 12:22 PM

it doesn't matter what camera people buy, because the majority of you's will do just that, just keep buying camera's and talk about how it'll improve your filmmaking. i get a kick out of "doh, i guess I'll have to buy this camera to make me movies better".

True enough. And a new camera coming out doesn't make yours any worse. If it does in your mind than you probably shouldn't have bought the other one in the first place.

Chris Watson

09-01-2009, 12:26 PM

it doesn't matter what camera people buy, because the majority of you's will do just that, just keep buying camera's and talk about how it'll improve your filmmaking. i get a kick out of "doh, i guess I'll have to buy this camera to make me movies better".

Couldn't say it better myself. I'm amazed at all the buyer's remorse going on here. There will always be something better a month to 3 months from now. That's just the march of progress. A thing to keep in mind is that with prices so low for the quality you're getting, there's no need to choose a camera any more. Just get them all. If you got the GH1 and a 7D, you'd still be paying less than if you went for an EX1 with some starter memory cards. Perspective folks.

stip

09-01-2009, 12:29 PM

a camera might not improve your filmmaking but it does influence your final work and also workflow on the set. Of course it matters what camera you buy, especially if it's your own money

Barry_Green

09-01-2009, 12:31 PM

Couldn't say it better myself. I'm amazed at all the buyer's remorse going on here. There will always be something better a month to 3 months from now. That's just the march of progress. A thing to keep in mind is that with prices so low for the quality you're getting, there's no need to choose a camera any more. Just get them all. If you got the GH1 and a 7D, you'd still be paying less than if you went for an EX1 with some starter memory cards. Perspective folks.
EXACTLY!

That's what ebay's for. If your current product is no longer "cutting edge", dump it and get the new one. Assuming, of course, that you NEED "cutting edge". A new product coming out doesn't make your existing product stop working, after all!

Old, old story (well, 3 years old) but my HVX200 was paid off after the first job I got with it. It became "free" from that point on. I could sell it at any time and put the money towards the next thing (which, I eventually did, getting a 170). But it was "free" for almost three years.

People have to remember that an HVX rents for $250 per DAY. So if you use it for a year, then take a $1500 loss when you sell it -- that's a year's use for the cost of six days of rental!

So, if you like what you've got, keep using it. If you're in the business of being hired as an owner/operator and have to have the latest and greatest equipment to keep getting hired, buy the latest and greatest -- $1700 for a 7D isn't a tremendous amount of money to someone who's in business. Look at Philip Bloom, he's got more cameras than just about anyone. Buy what you need, use it, and if you no longer need it or it's no longer doing the job for you, sell it and upgrade.

And get used to that cycle, by the way, because new product introductions appear to be speeding up.

Nitsuj

09-01-2009, 12:54 PM

Technology accelerates and there is no way of keeping on top of it. When I picked up the GH1 I thought was good for me and really have no desire to look at others until I've actually gotten good use out of this one. I would get nowhere if I spent all my time looking at the new features on the latest toys. There are people that collect cameras and have to have all the latest goodies and don't really make anything at all with them. Then there are others that have one camera or maybe have to borrow one and make works of art with it. Neither is bad. There are talkers and there are doers. I always say if there are no talkers then how would the doers know what to do? And if there were no doers what would the talkers talk about? ;)

PhilD

09-01-2009, 01:06 PM

I'm not interested in the 7D now. I want Panasonic to allow me to exchange my GH1 for one that doesn't have streaking and I want them to increase the bitrate. If not then I'll be interested in the 7D.

stip

09-01-2009, 01:19 PM

Canon claims on German site that the Dual DIGIC 4-processors improve lowlight ability considering noise and says that color and luminance noise at 6400 ISO corresponds to ISO 1.600 with DIGIC III processor.

I don't know if this counts for video mode as well though

Boz

09-01-2009, 01:36 PM

I'm sort of in a unique position. I just bought my GH1 this weekend, so it's still returnable. And honestly if Panasonic had given any indication they were going to fix the codec (the weakest of any DSLR as far as I know), then I would probably actually keep it. But since I can return it w/o penalty and the 7D has most of the pluses of the GH1 with only a few minuses, I'm having a hard time not justifying the swap.

Oh, and unlike many others here, I don't do this for $$, I do it as a hobby 'cause it's a blast!

Ian-T

09-01-2009, 01:40 PM

Some would say that since it’s a hobby for you …you should keep your GH-1. But I say…”go for broke.”

Car3o

09-01-2009, 01:58 PM

Boz

09-01-2009, 03:13 PM

you obviously have never done anything with the nikons codec.

You're right, I haven't used Nikon's codec which is why I caveated with 'as far as I know'.

why'd you get the gh1 in the first place? you were adamant for the longest time that the gh1 wasn't for you. you guys flip flop more than John Kerry.

Whatever dude. Cheap shots and labeling aside, the reason I got the GH1 because it was the camera that fit my needs best at the time. Was it perfect? No. But it was the best comprise in my price range. Had I known the 7D was going to have the features it has at the price it is I wouldn't have bothered with the GH1. Now that I see what the 7D has to offer, it's a better fit for me than the GH1. I have a chance to rectify that situation, I just bought the GH1, I can return it for full credit - something I'm sure many here wish they had the chance to do... is that really flip-flopping? Are all the people who are going to sell their 5Dii's to get 7Ds flip floppers as well? And the main reason for getting rid of the GH1 remains consistant with what I've said since day one: GH1 codec = crap. I have never flopped on that.

John Caballero

09-01-2009, 03:20 PM

Everybody keeps saying that the GH1 codec=crap yet there are plenty of great stuff shot with it already. If you are a pro, and I mean it in the sense that you are really good at it, you will get great stuff from the GH1. If you are not really good at it you won't. It is as simple as that.

Barry_Green

09-01-2009, 03:36 PM

That issue should definitely not be overblown -- the GH1 is capable of some *stellar* results. What Jack and I got with Vincent Pascoe down in Texas looks G R E A T. There's nothing at its price point that comes within a hundred miles of the GH1.

stip

09-01-2009, 03:52 PM

There's nothing at its price point that comes within a hundred miles of the GH1.

7d looks like it easily does :(

Car3o

09-01-2009, 03:55 PM

the gh1 body(red) costs $600.00(in Japan) the speculative price for the 7d body is $1600.00...I'd say that's at least a hundred miles.
But i would walk 500 miles...And i would walk 500 more...Just to be the man who walked 5,000 miles...To fall down at your door...la la la..lalala

Car3o

09-01-2009, 03:56 PM

You're right, I haven't used Nikon's codec which is why I caveated with 'as far as I know'.

Whatever dude. Cheap shots and labeling aside, the reason I got the GH1 because it was the camera that fit my needs best at the time. Was it perfect? No. But it was the best comprise in my price range. Had I known the 7D was going to have the features it has at the price it is I wouldn't have bothered with the GH1. Now that I see what the 7D has to offer, it's a better fit for me than the GH1. I have a chance to rectify that situation, I just bought the GH1, I can return it for full credit - something I'm sure many here wish they had the chance to do... is that really flip-flopping? Are all the people who are going to sell their 5Dii's to get 7Ds flip floppers as well? And the main reason for getting rid of the GH1 remains consistant with what I've said since day one: GH1 codec = crap. I have never flopped on that.

sure man, but don't be upset when another camera comes out and you're saying "ah man too bad i got the 7d because the newest camera that just came out is way better". because they way these camera's are churning out, time is irrelevant.

stip

09-01-2009, 04:01 PM

GH1 kit in europe is about 1500€, 7d is 1700€. That's not 100 miles but probably just because in europe everything is smaller ;)

Car3o

09-01-2009, 04:02 PM

because in europe everything is smaller ;)

that's what she said

stip

09-01-2009, 04:07 PM

tz tz...men!

10s

09-01-2009, 04:20 PM

I wish Panasonic would simply take the GH-1 type system tweak better and put it into a HPX 170 form, with audio inputs, selectable gyro stabilizer (with the detachable lens of course), filters, etc... and market that. From what I recall that is what everyone howled about 6 years ago and it has yet to be delivered!

I'm worn out from waiting for the most obvious design to arrive (see old archived material on what we want)... yes, this has gotten really old and basically hopeless... it also proves you can be in business and be clueless.

chrisccw

09-01-2009, 04:21 PM

You guys are just getting a taste of what we video people have been getting screwed with for 25-30 years---you sink your money into one thing, and six months later it's a boat anchor. This DSLR/HD technology is moving so fast you will never be able to keep up with it. Get used to it gentlemen. Game on!

Ben_B

09-01-2009, 04:28 PM

Dan Clark

09-01-2009, 04:40 PM

GH1 kit in europe is about 1500€, 7d is 1700€. That's not 100 miles but probably just because in europe everything is smaller ;)
1700€ WITH a lens? A video-quiet, 10X lens?

Dan.

J Davis

09-01-2009, 04:42 PM

the gh1 body(red) costs $600.00(in Japan)

Can you post a link?
Yodobashi was $1100 for body only when I looked this morning.

Nik Manning

09-01-2009, 04:45 PM

GH1 =$1500 Canon 7D=$1650 (bing 15% cashback)

Yeah Game Over GH1. :( I am sure there will be quite a few GH1's for sale for under $1300 used very soon!

stip

09-01-2009, 05:04 PM

1700€ WITH a lens? A video-quiet, 10X lens?

Dan.

I'd use my own lenses so I didn't count that in :huh:

Martti Ekstrand

09-01-2009, 05:06 PM

Isn't game over for 5dmkII as a video camera?

Dan Clark

09-01-2009, 05:07 PM

GH1 =$1500 Canon 7D=$1650 (bing 15% cashback)

Yeah Game Over GH1. :( I am sure there will be quite a few GH1's for sale for under $1300 used very soon!
What kind of lens do you get for your $1700? Hmmm??? You know... That thing with the glass on the end where light comes in.

Get decent some glass with your 7D that even approaches the range of the GH1's 14-140 lens and you're talking over $3,000. Oh and it has that antique optical view finder and no foldable LCD.

Yep, game over for 7D. Canon loses once more.

Have a nice day.

Dan.

p.s., So you think Canon fans would LOVE the 7D. Right? Check out the Canon SLR forums to feel the 7D love! NOT.

p.p.s., It's a nice cam. But it's still just another DSLR.

stip

09-01-2009, 05:11 PM

What kind of lens do you get for your $1700? Hmmm??? You know... That thing with the glass on the end where light comes in.

Get decent some glass with your 7D that even approaches the range of the GH1's 14-140 lens and you're talking over $3,000. Oh and it has that antique optical view finder and no foldable LCD.

Yep, game over for 7D. Canon loses once more.

Have a nice day.

Dan.

p.s., So you think Canon fans would LOVE the 7D. Right? Check out the Canon SLR forums to feel the 7D love! NOT.

p.p.s., It's a nice cam. But it's still just another DSLR.

uuh...ok??!!

Dan Clark

09-01-2009, 05:13 PM

I'd use my own lenses so I didn't count that in :huh:
That's peachy-keen-wonderful IF you own Canon lenses and IF those lenses will fit the 7D.

Nik should have at least quote apples to apples pricing.

Dan.

stip

09-01-2009, 05:14 PM

relax, no one wants you to buy a 7D.

Ian-T

09-01-2009, 05:15 PM

Wow Dan.... Tell us how you REALLY feel.... :)

Barry_Green

09-01-2009, 05:15 PM

7d looks like it easily does :(
7D is twice its price point, body to body.

Barry_Green

09-01-2009, 05:16 PM

GH1 kit in europe is about 1500€, 7d is 1700€. That's not 100 miles but probably just because in europe everything is smaller ;)
The lenses are nothing alike. It's not fair to compare kit to kit, the GH1's lens is way better. The GH1's lens, alone, is valued at around $900. The 7D's lens is valued at around $200.

Stephen Mick

09-01-2009, 05:17 PM

Game over? Who won?

Oh wait, we all did. Because now we have a multitude of choices, and a range of cameras to fit just about any budget and need.

But as I've said, the images from the 5D look just as nice today as they did yesterday, as do the images from both my GH1 and EX1. Technology moves ahead, but I wouldn't say the HPXs, HVXs, EX3s, HMCs, etc. are obsolete.

I'm taking my GH1 and my EX1 to the jungle next week. Then when my 7D comes in, I'll see how that fits my workflow and needs. If it does, I'll keep it, and my clients will end up paying for it in a few days of shooting.

Just pick a camera (or wait for it to ship), then log out and go shoot something. Talking about cameras doesn't make any of us better filmmakers, only making films does that.

Dan Clark

09-01-2009, 05:17 PM

Wow Dan.... Tell us how you REALLY feel.... :)
Ian,

OK, gimme a chance to build up some steam! :)

Dan.

stip

09-01-2009, 05:20 PM

The lenses are nothing alike. It's not fair to compare kit to kit, the GH1's lens is way better. The GH1's lens, alone, is valued at around $900. The 7D's lens is valued at around $200.

There comes a lens with the 7D?? I thought it's just the body

portishead

09-01-2009, 05:23 PM

Game over? Who won?

Oh wait, we all did.

Seriously. You guys are crazy. We're barely a year into this VSLR business and already some amazing cameras have been produced. They get better with each release. I'm sure the GH2 will be way better than the GH1 with a better codec and better chip, and the 7D mk2 will also improve on the original. I am excited at what the next year will bring. Until I purchase something else, I am perfectly happy with my GH1, even though superior equipment will surely be released.

Dan Clark

09-01-2009, 05:30 PM

...
Oh wait, we all did. Because now we have a multitude of choices, and a range of cameras to fit just about any budget and need.
...
...I'll see how that fits my workflow and needs. If it does, I'll keep it, and my clients will end up paying for it in a few days of shooting.

Stephen,

Well stated.

Many of the folks hustling around posting about the PERFECTION of a new camera are just marketing people trying to make a buck. For the rest of us, nothing is ever perfect and never will be.

The only thing that is important is whether a camera meets our needs. Competition is good in that respect because it forces the camera manufacturers to build better, more robust, more cost-effective cameras that fill our needs better.

I like seeing the new Sony DSLRs, Canon 7D, and Panny GF1. I don't want any of them, but they test the market and put pressure on the manufacturers. And they take potential GH1 customers off the market, making it easier for me to get one. I just wish the fanboys and marketers would tone down the BS just a bit.

Regards,

Dan.

Car3o

09-01-2009, 05:34 PM

Can you post a link?
Yodobashi was $1100 for body only when I looked this morning.

i would, but that means i might not be able to buy it.

Ben_B

09-01-2009, 05:36 PM

It's great to see all the video DSLRs doing what they do for us video people. I'd say the only people left to argue with are the photographers who want the companies to stop putting in video features because they personally don't need them...and yes there are a few out there.

In any case this thread had been devolving into a flamewar Canon vs Panasonic vs Nikon vs AVCHD vs H.264 vs Barry Green vs Body-Only vs Kit Lens vs The Euro vs The Dollar...and it just generally feels really uncomfortable and angsty, full of remorse, dashed hopes and dreams, etc...all totally uncessarily, so I'll just say this:

The thread asks: are you guys still waiting on GH1 keeping your eye on the 7d?

The answer?

Yes.

I see no need for further posting.

Car3o

09-01-2009, 05:38 PM

admin buzz kill

Ozpeter

09-01-2009, 06:14 PM

As far as I can see, the sole advantage (yet to be conclusively proven) of the 7D is the picture quality under certain conditions where the picture quality of the GH1 can be lacking. In every other department it has drawbacks, surely? And isn't it likely that the 7D is going to have its own set of picture quality problems due to focus issues (no AF and a tiny screen to focus with manually)? Perhaps one could say that the D7 will be great at handling transverse movement (eg panning) but the GH1 will shine when handling front/back movement (eg something coming towards or away from the camera). The Imaging Resource review suggests stopping the camera down all the way to handle the focus problem...

chrismagicc

09-01-2009, 06:32 PM

Stu Maschwitz view: http://prolost.com/

looks tasty, but i just got my GH 1 yesterday

Nitsuj

09-01-2009, 06:55 PM

Seems like the primary concern should be "Can I tell a story with this?"
When the primary goal is no longer for entertaining the audience then it is just an ego piece.

To me I'm more impressed with a finished film on a low end camera than I am at the countless unfinished films on a high end camera. And a lot more times I am more impressed with a film on a low end camera with no budget than a lot of high budget junk food movies that come out of Hollywood using gold plated cameras covered in jewels.

I like these forums when it comes to technical details on how to get the most out of your low end camera. It's like a community sticking it to the blockbusters saying "Hey look how cool this is! We made it with a cell phone camera and a flashlight." But after all this new technology coming out it's starting to look like "Oh look, you only have the Model A and not the Model B1000, how cute... noob."

But I guess it is entertaining to read while I render my video from my poor little GH1. ;)

Ian-T

09-01-2009, 07:05 PM

Why are people worried about focus? It does have Auto Focus...maybe not continuous...but AF nonetheless. If you are worried about continuous for sports etc. then maybe a camcorder is the better option. But to tell you the truth I don't care how fast a camera focuses.....it looks terrible for movies. So those of us concerned about using this cam for movies should'nt worry too much. Just do what a pro DP would do. If you don't consider yourself a pro then get a consumer camcorder that has all of those functions. jm2c

stip

09-01-2009, 07:08 PM

But I guess it is entertaining to read while I render my video ...

haha, same here, I'm rendering and I'm bored, love the thread!

But I disagree, what if you have a great story told on a crappy cam when able to tell it on a, still cheap, DSLR that gives a better image? The story is the same, so would it make it worse or better?
I totally understand everybody who's ambitious to get the best out of everything, including equipment.
but I guess you mean those who reduce it to just the equipment anyway.

Ozpeter

09-01-2009, 07:21 PM

Why are people worried about focus?I would have thought it's pretty vital with shallow depth of field. If the slightest movement front/back of the subject puts it out of field, then you've got to try to manage with that little fixed-angle screen to refocus to compensate.

Car3o

09-01-2009, 07:31 PM

haha, same here, I'm rendering and I'm bored, love the thread!

But I disagree, what if you have a great story told on a crappy cam when able to tell it on a, still cheap, DSLR that gives a better image? The story is the same, so would it make it worse or better?
I totally understand everybody who's ambitious to get the best out of everything, including equipment.
but I guess you mean those who reduce it to just the equipment anyway.

all these images are comparable when you put them on a tripod. most of the those who are claiming "if I only had this" are never going to make good stories to begin with. however, if the people using these camera's are for commercial business, then sure, why not get the best out what you can afford. or do the best with what you have.

Car3o

09-01-2009, 07:33 PM

I would have thought it's pretty vital with shallow depth of field. If the slightest movement front/back of the subject puts it out of field, then you've got to try to manage with that little fixed-angle screen to refocus to compensate.

i guess those darn arri 35mm camera's and their depth of field films are screwed.

Mike@AF

09-01-2009, 07:49 PM

Everyone here is just arguing/debating over specs. That's all we have to look at right now. No one actually has this camera to say if it's good or bad, or better or worse than the GH1, D90, or 5DMKII. Wouldn't the ideal thing to do be to wait until people get hold of the camera and post footage from it and we actually see reviews?

You could have the best camera on the planet specs-wise, and it could be the actual worst camera ever made. The specs on the GH1 tell us nothing about the possible streak issues or mud issues. So who knows what, if any, issues there might be with the 7D? No one knows right now. I say hold on to your GH1's. If you really want to get an idea of which is better, buy both and sell or return the one you don't want and keep the one you think is better for you. And better for you is all it is.

Personally, going by specs alone, I think I'll probably stick with my GH1. Not having a flip-out LCD is pretty much the deal breaker for me. I haven't had ANY mud or streak issues with my GH1 (outside of testing where I purposely pushed the camera to learn what I could and couldn't do with it).

Bottom line, it comes down to which camera is the best for you and your needs/wants. No camera is truly better than the other. It's really the user/shooter that makes a camera good or bad, as proven by Canon's own marketing video for the 7D. I'm sure the 7D is a great camera, but it's probably not right for me. Maybe that thought will change when there's actual footage and reviews from owners of the 7D. Until that happens I won't speculate beyond saying I love my GH1 and have no reason to get rid of it.

Ben_B

09-01-2009, 07:53 PM

Mike I agree completely, especially with the last line.

Boz

09-01-2009, 07:54 PM

Mike@AF

09-01-2009, 08:04 PM

Isn't picture quality top dog though? A killer dolly move is far less impressive if viewed through a bunch of skew, noise, or compression. Also, as far as I know, there is no known 'fix it in post' solution for compression errors (I'd love to hear solutions, if there are any).

Not necessarily. Now this applies to mainly movies, but....

To an extent the typical movie-going audience doesn't even know or care what they're looking at. They don't know what camera was used, what codec, or any of that. They just don't care. Why? Because all they want is a good story and an entertaining movie. The point is, it doesn't really matter. Just make it look the best you can with what you have to work with, but make sure your story is good and make sure the actors can act.

stip

09-01-2009, 08:09 PM

Until that happens I won't speculate beyond saying I love my GH1 and have no reason to get rid of it.
I love this thread and have no reason to get rid of it.

Ozpeter

09-01-2009, 08:12 PM

Isn't picture quality top dog though?As Mike said, it's a matter of right tool for right job. If the picture quality is first class, but you're trying to record a 20 minute shot at an event with a device that only records for 12 minutes, then shot length capability comes first (just by way of an example). Of course for moviemaking use, shot length is less important. Different tool, different job.

stip

09-01-2009, 08:14 PM

Not necessarily. Now this applies to mainly movies, but....

To an extent the typical movie-going audience doesn't even know or care what they're looking at. They don't know what camera was used, what codec, or any of that. They just don't care. Why? Because all they want is a good story and an entertaining movie. The point is, it doesn't really matter. Just make it look the best you can with what you have to work with, but make sure your story is good and make sure the actors can act.

oooh, I disagree. I read many comments about "public enemy" where people who have no idea about filmmaking were bothered by the digital footage saying the film looked like home video in some parts. They realized it and they were botherd by it and I agree with them.
And "Public Enemy" is a great story, not to talk about Johnny depp being a great actor.

EDIT: maybe if they had shot it entirely digital, audience wouldn't have bothered because they couldn't notice a difference??

Boz

09-01-2009, 08:18 PM

Bottom line, it comes down to which camera is the best for you and your needs/wants. No camera is truly better than the other. It's really the user/shooter that makes a camera good or bad, as proven by Canon's own marketing video for the 7D. I'm sure the 7D is a great camera, but it's probably not right for me. Maybe that thought will change when there's actual footage and reviews from owners of the 7D. Until that happens I won't speculate beyond saying I love my GH1 and have no reason to get rid of it.

Amen. Yet, I get pummeled here for even suggesting that the 7D might be a better fit for me.

Mike@AF

09-01-2009, 08:24 PM

Maybe I should change it from "typical" to "majority of the". Personally, I haven't heard anyone that's seen the movie and doesn't work on movies say anything negative about the look of the movie. I'm not saying no one has, I'm just saying the people I know and have talked to.

Rory_B

09-01-2009, 08:50 PM

Michael Mann said he was going for a hyper realistic look. He could have easily made the film look more filmlike, but chose not to. I saw the movie and wasn't enthralled with the look, but that's because I was bored by the story. I was hoping to get more of a character study film, but instead it was more superficial. If the story had grabbed me the look would not have mattered.

Just pointing a camera and hoping that the specs will make it look great is absurd.

Zodiac and Benjamin Button both shot digitally look very much like film. Fincher and Mann both love the digital format but have 2 completely different ways of utilizing it.

stip

09-01-2009, 09:09 PM

Michael Mann said he was going for a hyper realistic look. He could have easily made the film look more filmlike, but chose not to.
There's no sense giving a story based in the 1930's a hyper realistic video look of the presence.
He may say he did it on purpose, but I believe there were other reasons.

Funny, we always try to look like hollywood and now hollywood tries to look like us

Fluke

09-01-2009, 09:33 PM

As far as I can see, the sole advantage (yet to be conclusively proven) of the 7D is the picture quality under certain conditions where the picture quality of the GH1 can be lacking. In every other department it has drawbacks, surely?

I guess my buyers' remorse was not from a filmmaker's point of view. I know an EVF is better for video but, I come from a photography background and I enjoy taking photos of live music and concerts. The EVF is a bit of a pain in the ol' ass when it comes to taking photos of fast moving, half lit subjects in a dark, dank room. In fact, it's a bit of a pain for photography in general. It feels and looks wrong.

I would have gone for the 5DmkII but I couldn't justify the extra cost. I was stretching the budget as it was.

Now, heres a VDSLR with a mirror box (even though most of you would consider that a minus point) AND what appears to be (from the spec sheet) very good video implementation. That and I've used Canon's a lot in the past and everyone likes the familiar. This, to me, seems to be the best of both worlds; but then, my wants are different to most of the people here.

The only real reason I'd want to swap for a 7D is because it is going to be a better stills camera.

Ozpeter

09-01-2009, 09:55 PM

Old Australian saying - "Where you are going to depends on where you've come from".

Fluke

09-01-2009, 10:12 PM

Old Australian saying - "Where you are going to depends on where you've come from".

It just feels like I was driving from Perth to Melbourne but turned off too early and ended up in Adelaide.

Bummer.

Jokes on me because I live in Adelaide... sigh.

Nitsuj

09-01-2009, 10:13 PM

Old Australian saying - "Where you are going to depends on where you've come from".

And wherever you go... there you are.

e-steve

09-01-2009, 10:20 PM

All I really meant by posting this initial thread was... if you are salty because you haven't gotten your GH1 yet (that you ordered in May), you might want to take a peek at the 7D, which was announced today, and supposedly is going to be available this month.

Just like with the 5DMII vs GH1, there will be pros and cons for each camera. Someday all of us DVXusers (or FormerDVXusers) will be so wealthy we'll own every new camera that comes out, right? :)

They are all pretty amazing cameras these days.

Uwe Lansing

09-02-2009, 12:38 AM

Take a look at this stuff.

pana gh1:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/DMCGH1/DMCGH1VIDEO.HTM

canon 7d:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E7D/E7DVIDEO.HTM

commanderspike

09-02-2009, 01:18 AM

Take a look at this stuff.

pana gh1:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/DMCGH1/DMCGH1VIDEO.HTM

canon 7d:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E7D/E7DVIDEO.HTM

Joining this discussion late but I am glad the 5D Mark II finally got 24p and a cheaper price :)

Really, the 7D seems nothing all that new, apart from no longer being full frame.

It has all the usability hassles of the 5D Mark II.

Jello will be less than the 5DM2 but low light performance might not be all that special as it no longer has the full frame sized sensor.

If Canon bring out a proper video / stills hybrid with no mirrorbox, THEN the 7D hype would justify my excitement.

Still... it IS exciting. Can't wait to use one at the IFA show in Berlin on Saturday and maybe shoot some footage with it.

ChipG

09-02-2009, 01:47 AM

Commanderspike,

How much are you selling your gh1 for?

Uwe Lansing

09-02-2009, 02:16 AM

...

but low light performance might not be all that special as it no longer has the full frame sized sensor.

I don´t think so. The sensor is smaller but each single pixel is bigger. Maybe the same ability in lowlight...

Can't wait to use one at the IFA show in Berlin on Saturday and maybe shoot some footage with it.Was it difficult to get a hotel room? Usually everything is booked out at that date. I´ve thought about it too (have an old friend from london in berlin), but i suspect you have to wait 1 or 2 hours in line and then you´ll have 4 or 5 minutes or so to capture something (without knowing which button does what) :-(

editman

09-02-2009, 02:58 AM

EVF, swivel display and the fact that you can use any lens will make me stick to the GH1 and wait for the GH2... but I almost jumped on the 7D train.

Uwe Lansing

09-02-2009, 03:13 AM

EVF, swivel display and the fact that you can use any lens will make me stick to the GH1 and wait for the GH2... but I almost jumped on the 7D train.

Yup, it always boils down at the moment to => image vs usability or waiting for something that might have it all...

slinks

09-02-2009, 05:50 AM

uggghhh decisions decisions.....and why doesn't the GH1 have 24p in 720 yet? I signed the petition and emailed too!

The 7d looks promising on paper and since i am also a 40d user I have some lenses for it...buuuuut the gh1 seems to me like an HD dvx and I LOVED LOVED LOVED my dvx until the heads died and my world came crumbling down. *cry face*

I'm still on the fence for this one but I definitely need something for video b4 sept ends for a few gigs :(.

ydgmdlu

09-02-2009, 05:50 AM

It has all the usability hassles of the 5D Mark II.
How so? And you know, the GH1 has its own usability hassles...

Jello will be less than the 5DM2 but low light performance might not be all that special as it no longer has the full frame sized sensor.
If it has lesser low-light performance, it won't be because the sensor is smaller.

Ian-T

09-02-2009, 06:02 AM

Exactly, if anything the resolution might take a hit but the low light performance could actually improve because of bigger pixels.

Martti Ekstrand

09-02-2009, 06:52 AM

I always work on this formula when it comes to my own personal stuff:

creative control > technical specs

For instance due to ergonomics I could not have shot "Closing Time" with 5DmkII or 7D. Being able to shoot handheld and focusing through the viewfinder was essential for it. I wouldn't have managed 15 minutes with holding the camera out infront of me to see the LCD. I do exercise at the gym regularly but thats a grueling position to work in and it wouldn't have been steady enough for watching. Nor would I've been able to focus properly in low light that way. Plus people would have understood I was filming them, not being the slowest still photographer in the world, and simply walked away. Even more so if I had hauled the cam around on a tripod alone in the middle of the night, I might have been mugged even (or rather subjected to a attempt, I can be pretty nasty when somebody is not nice to me).

Same ergonomic problem for "Sthlm Rim Shots" plus the lack of auto focus would have made it... ummm... out of focus a hell of a lot more that it is. Bit like that Venice piece Canon shows - chok'ful of unintended drifting in-out of focus close-ups, what the hell was the editor thinking?

"A Kindling Light" perhaps I could do with 7D, haven't seen specs if such 1/2 second shutter speeds are available in video mode on it. Sure it can be shoot as still photo timelapse but being able to playback the clips in camera to learn and adjust on the spot made it possible to shoot it in one night, not three.

So the only clip I've done so far over this summer since I got my GH1 that I could have done with 7D is "Dark Heavens" - a fairly static and heavily graded 30 sec film. Anybody who says GH1 footage can't be graded isn't as good at neither photography or grading as he think he is.

The 7D do sound enticing for more controlled types of work with a team around and stuff like external monitors and whatnot. I might end up getting one as well but not until I see something more than Canon's own stuff and kludgy Gizmodo/Engadget/whatever samples. BTW due to 30 fps only 5DmkII has always been out of the question as a video tool for me here in a PAL land, re-timing bugs on fast overlapping motion look lot worse than any mud or low colour resolution problems you can find in "Sthlm Rim Shots" as a example. Plus the re-timing render times are not practical in my daily workflow.

But I probably hold out for a GH2 or something like the HVX171 frankencamera potatochop image Ben made since just like editman, I love all the lens options that the m4/3 mount allows. What's that? You don't think something better will come based on GH1? Well, Canon did bring out 7D just now didn't they?

Then I would advice anybody thinking of letting go of a GH1 now to remember that Canon's track record for delivering 5DmkII isn't exactly stellar, don't know how it was in the US but here in Sweden it took nearly half a year between 'release' in November to when it was actually possible to buy if off the shelf. Biggus Dickus codec comparisons don't matter one bit if you have nothing to shoot with. Check that you will actually get the 7D within a reasonable timeframe.

Finally I'm not slamming the 7D, I just don't think it's the end of all things as some people here seem to argue, and neither is GH1. They both have their places, sometimes probably next to each other. And something better will succeed both of them.

ydgmdlu

09-02-2009, 07:12 AM

Then I would advice anybody thinking of letting go of a GH1 now to remember that Canon's track record for delivering 5DmkII isn't exactly stellar, don't know how it was in the US but here in Sweden it took nearly half a year between 'release' in November to when it was actually possible to buy if off the shelf. Biggus Dickus codec comparisons don't matter one bit if you have nothing to shoot with. Check that you will actually get the 7D within a reasonable timeframe.
Funny you should say that, since Panasonic bungled the GH1 release just as badly as Canon did, in case you've forgotten. How many people lurking or commenting in this forum are still anxiously waiting (after months and months already of waiting) to get a GH1? Perhaps your experience in Sweden has been different, but the point is that you can't make sweeping statements designed to appeal to everyone when they are demonstrably misleading.

mtan

09-02-2009, 07:26 AM

this decision is killing me, I really don't know which way I will go, GH1 or 7D. Seems 7D will have more staying power but GH1 is less expensive and easier to use. I don't know how the bitrate and codec issues with the GH1 will effect me. Given that I am not a professional it will probably be fine but is still a lot of money for something that may be lacking. I can't afford new cameras every year or even every 3 years so i will have to live with my choice for a long time.

stip

09-02-2009, 07:33 AM

don't know how it was in the US but here in Sweden it took nearly half a year between 'release' in November to when it was actually possible to buy if off the shelf.

same in germany, a salesman of a big electronics retailer chain similar to B&H recently told me they could still sell almost 3 times as much 5dMKII's than they actually are able to.
Still amazon claims to ship preordered 7D's as soon as official date of appearance which is said to be early october...well, they say.
Shipping times for GH1 are 4-5 days here.

yslee

09-02-2009, 07:36 AM

Martti Ekstrand

09-02-2009, 11:56 AM

Funny you should say that, since Panasonic bungled the GH1 release just as badly as Canon did, in case you've forgotten. How many people lurking or commenting in this forum are still anxiously waiting (after months and months already of waiting) to get a GH1?
Now I haven't forgotten I am well aware of it, that's exactly why I pointed out that Canon should be viewed with caution as well. So nobody again ends up sitting waiting for a camera to shoot with, you know; in all friendliness.

the point is that you can't make sweeping statements designed to appeal to everyone when they are demonstrably misleading.
Oh I'm so so sorry, I forgot to add "either":

Canon's track record for delivering 5DmkII isn't exactly stellar either

There, does this help you untwist your knickers?

Boz

09-02-2009, 01:34 PM

this decision is killing me, I really don't know which way I will go, GH1 or 7D.

Same here... and I have to make my decision by the weekend since I'll have to return my GH1 by then. Ugh!

Seems 7D will have more staying power but GH1 is less expensive and easier to use.

True for the most part, unless you have Canon lenses. Then the GH1 is only slightly cheaper. But I definitely agree... it's really a case of user friendliness vs output. GH1 wins the former, but 7D has a definite advantage in the latter.

I don't know how the bitrate and codec issues with the GH1 will effect me. Given that I am not a professional it will probably be fine but is still a lot of money for something that may be lacking. I can't afford new cameras every year or even every 3 years so i will have to live with my choice for a long time.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I cant afford to be buying a camera (or cameras!) every year, since they don't pay for themselves. So, unlike others who go through cameras like shoes, for me it's a decision I'll have to live with for a few years.

Barry_Green

09-02-2009, 01:45 PM

Same here... and I have to make my decision by the weekend since I'll have to return my GH1 by then. Ugh!
Depends on if you need a camera for the next several months. Pre-orders are being told they won't get their 7Ds until December. If you need a camera, keep it, let the 7D get shaken down and find out what the real deal is, then decide if you want to trade it in.

If you don't need a camera for the next several months, return the GH1. But you probably won't get a 7D for a long time.

ChipG

09-02-2009, 01:49 PM

I'll bet you guys can sell your gh1 in 3-4 months when the 7d's are around for $1,000-$1,200ish. It'll cost you $100 a month in depreciation. Not a bad play to shoot now!

J Davis

09-02-2009, 02:06 PM

Same here... and I have to make my decision by the weekend since I'll have to return my GH1 by then. Ugh!

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. The two cams are essentially the same with minor differences here and there.
I don't think one will make the other depreciate. GH1 will take a wider variety of lenses tho and you won't be able to do timelapse on the 7D with those file size limits.

mtan

09-02-2009, 02:11 PM

Yep I think it is settled for me, I can't wait until December. I will get the GH1 and maybe sell in a year or so and get the 7d after it depreciates some. I don't need to be on the cutting edge.

ajamils

09-02-2009, 02:39 PM

I don't know how can anyone even consider 7D for video recording with its file size limit.

J Davis

09-02-2009, 02:47 PM

THe file size limit is fine by me especially if you are doing narrative work.
The only time I ever need to record an hour+ is on an ENG style gig and in that case I wouldn't want a vDSLR

ChipG

09-02-2009, 02:47 PM

I have shot thousands of clips on my hvx200, maybe 50 are over 12 minutes. If it's the only video camera you'll have and you need long form recording then it's not the cam for you. My hvx has a max recording time of 8 min with a 8 gig card in 1080. I know I'll have a pocket full of CF cards with the 7D.

ChipG

09-02-2009, 02:48 PM

Davis beat me to it.

SLoNiCK

09-02-2009, 02:59 PM

I'll still go for GH1. My thoughts:

1) Sensor. Crop x1,6 vs. x2. 25% of additional size may give a better low-light performance, but it won't be a big step ahead. I'm satisfied with GH1's high ISO performance. But GH1 seems to have faster sensor in terms of rolling shutter effect, besides Canon applied in 720p same downscale/linedrop method as in 500D leading to significant aliasing artifacts. And recording limits are still present.

2) Lenses. Of course, Canon's arsenal is larger in times, both for new and used optics. But it absolutely lacks one thing - kit zoom with AF ability. Yeah, I know, true cinematographers shoot on primes with follow focus, but for "man-and-a-half" crew AF would save lot of time and brain cells. The main advantage of Canon is in more affordable wide-end lenses. Well, I rarely need more then 28 mm wide eq., so I can live with this.

3) Audio. Both are without built-in leveling and monitoring, both have ext. mic input. GH1 built-in mic looks better.

4) Codec. We know that GH1 codec is weak. But is 7D's codec much stronger? As for me - nope. It doesn't fall apart on high speed pans but it gets too soapy for my sense. It gets soapy even on static detail-rich scenes (check imaging-resource.com samples of 7D). I mean, this border of quality loss is very close for both GH1 and 7D, maybe closer on GH1, but still very reachable, and you have to remember about it every time you shoot. I've checked PAL footage from GH1 once again and decided that it's acceptable.

5) Ergonomics. GH1 looks more suitable for video shooting with it's swivel LCD and always-working EVF.

ajamils

09-02-2009, 03:02 PM

THe file size limit is fine by me especially if you are doing narrative work.
The only time I ever need to record an hour+ is on an ENG style gig and in that case I wouldn't want a vDSLR

its not even an hour........ 7D is limited to 12 mins of continuous recording.

So if you are on an assignment where you have to record more than that....you'll either have to tell them to stop after 11 minutes or tell them to wait so that you can run out and get a GH1 :grin:

ChipG

09-02-2009, 03:10 PM

More than likely you'll have an audio recorder running like the zoom h4n so you can cut away while you drop a new cf card in the cam and roll video for another 12 min. I ordered two 7D's so I really don't have to worry about it.

stip

09-02-2009, 03:15 PM

But is 7D's codec much stronger? As for me - nope.
Little early for that conclusion

Boz

09-02-2009, 03:31 PM

Depends on if you need a camera for the next several months. Pre-orders are being told they won't get their 7Ds until December. If you need a camera, keep it, let the 7D get shaken down and find out what the real deal is, then decide if you want to trade it in.

If you don't need a camera for the next several months, return the GH1. But you probably won't get a 7D for a long time.

Great advice. I've been waiting a very long time to upgrade, and I really don't want to wait until December to get a new camera. Especially since over those months I'll still be paying for it (exchanging GH1 for store credit towards 7D). While I wait, I can shoot and improve my skills while the 7D is released and shaken down. Plus, once it's out for a while the costs will start to drop.... Of course by then we'll be looking at a GH2. ;-) Still, Panasonic would certainly make all of our lives easier with a damn codec patch!

J Davis

09-02-2009, 03:51 PM

What may happen is Pana may start selling 'body only' GH1's to compete.
Especially as they missed the boat on so many sales

yslee

09-02-2009, 05:33 PM

Heh, Mud and Soap. Maybe we need to kit bash both cameras together. :P

Pelerino

09-03-2009, 01:35 AM

I bought the GH1 last week it's fantastic; the picture quality easily rivals any Sony hd cam. As for the Canon 7d, I have seen footage from the camera as I worked on the research for it and it is less than impressive. They have basically taken the 500d video, added a mic jack and at the last minute added the frame rates to keep up with the times - very shoddy. Another plus for the GH1 is it's size, much smaller beast and therefore I will use it more often, who wants to be carrying round a heffer these days? Not I, Canon, Nikon you've been great - but see you laters.

jfro

09-03-2009, 06:39 AM

I have a 5D M2 as my primary and GH1 as my B cam. I ordered a 7D & expect I'll get it the first week they release them. I got my 5D in last week of Nov last year and I was late ordering the GH1. but still got it early July.

I don't really need 3 cameras, but not willing to sell the GH1 just yet. I use it at 720p most of the time and uprez it to work with the 5D m2. I like the HD imagery better off the 5D and for stills, they are night and day difference. Canon is excellent and the GH1 is more like my wife's point and shoot.

I'm hoping the HDMI is live on the 7D but I don't hold out hopes as I'm convinced that Canon is holding back features ON PURPOSE. The fixed LCD and no audio control are almost ridiculous missing features.

That being said, I want one camera that can shoot extended times and will keep the GH1 for that if I can't get more than 10-14 minutes on the two cameras. I'm selling off all my HD video cameras (with reservations) knowing that action shots are going to be less than perfect, but what the heck, one only needs a couple cameras.

If the imagery is real sweet on the 7D, but still has the 10-14 minute time limit, I will have a dilemma. Maybe I'll become a 3 camera guy, but hopefully not.

I'm holding off buying more canon lens as I'm interested to see what Nikon or someone else will do. We are getting to the point where the imagery is going to be at a point where they will all be great and features will win the race. Then my 15 year loyalty to Canon will be ended.

I have no direct knowledge, but my gut is screaming that Canon is intentionally leaving off features.

shzr

09-03-2009, 12:09 PM

just curious what are your backgrounds? How do I become a professional videographer and what are my options besides weddings! hehe and can I raise a family w/ the income.

mtan

09-03-2009, 02:40 PM

waiting for the GH2 or when 7d becomes cheaper

09-03-2009, 08:43 PM

I'm in line behind you.

mtan

09-03-2009, 09:47 PM

Actually just preorded the 7d. talked to my wife about and and really played up the taking of great photos of our son. I bought her a couple of new dresses and she is happy. :)

Ben_B

09-03-2009, 09:58 PM

It'll probably be awhile before you get one, good luck!

09-03-2009, 11:12 PM

> talked to my wife about and and really played up the taking of great photos of our son.

I tried that angle, didn't work.

yet.

SonicStates

09-04-2009, 01:47 AM

It just feels like I was driving from Perth to Melbourne but turned off too early and ended up in Adelaide.

Bummer.

Jokes on me because I live in Adelaide... sigh.

Hahaha just saw this...and that's why I live in Japan (from Adelaide too).

FWIW and forgive the platitude, but there is always going to be some new technical piece of wizardry that MUST be had arriving at some point near in the future (*cough* unless it's made by Pana or Canon, then "near" is a relative term). By the time the 7D is here something else will be on the horizon which we ALL (myself included) will just have to have. I get the bug also...you know the one...dreaming of the moment when you unwrap the parcel, heart rate increasing, palms becoming sweaty, gently caressing the...anyway maybe that's another dream.

A suggestion which many have said already deserves a revisit. SHOOT WITH WHAT YOU HAVE NOW!!!! especially in this case. We don't even know how the 7D really performs...when delivery will actually take place (I'm a bit better off on that front because of my location...maybe) or what problems will be present...and there WILL/IS be problems/limitations. Barry's point, as per usual, about letting it (7D) get shaken down is spot on. I can already hear the approaching complaints of (some) new 7D owners...equipment 'upgrades'; truly a vicious cycle!

In the meantime, my wide angle just arrived.....sweaty palms.... I'm off to enjoy the GH-1

Fluke

09-04-2009, 02:44 AM

Hahaha just saw this...and that's why I live in Japan (from Adelaide too).

You escaped! You are one of the lucky ones... Heh.

FWIW and forgive the platitude, but there is always going to be some new technical piece of wizardry that MUST be had arriving at some point near in the future.

Yeah. I'm terrible at this. I do it with cameras, I do it with guitars, I do it with recording equipment, I do it with computers... heck, I'd probably do it with my cereal if I religiously read up on the cutting edge of cereal design.

I've decided that I'm not even going to entertain the thought of a 7D. Especailly after the body only price is looking like it's going to be $3,000 here. Though, I am a little pissed to find that the GH1 price has dropped $800 since I picked mine up last month... Grr.

I'm just going to make do with the decision I made, afterall it's not any less of a camera than it was last week. And, if buying a GH1 is even close to the worst decision I make in the next 12 months, then I think I'm in for a remarkable year, indeed!

SonicStates

09-04-2009, 02:46 AM

I'm just going to make do with the decision I made, afterall it's not any less of a camera than it was last week. And, if buying a GH1 is even close to the worst decision I make in the next 12 months, then I think I'm in for a remarkable year, indeed!

I salute you!

slinks

09-04-2009, 03:58 AM

personally i have a feeling the 7d is a rushed cam and anyways it wouldn't fit my needs.

especially if u do events or plan to shoot anything long . 12 min just will not cut it. 7d definitely has its pluses but it just doesn't cut it for me. If the 7d was full frame and had those modes, I would consider it a lot more especially since I would like to get into more full frame photography., but alas it is not.

MR Fanny

09-04-2009, 06:30 AM

TrueIndigo

09-04-2009, 06:34 AM

As I said in another thread, I'm happy to make this summer my "GH1 summer", to use it, learn from it, and move on. The days of cameras for keeps went out a long time ago (technology brings us the benefits, but the marketing hype takes away our satisfaction with last years products). It would be nice to settle down for a few years with a solid camera, but the march of the machines is unstopable. It's a merry go round I can't get off of (following the latest developments), and I wish I spent as much time perfecting my scripts...

Richard J. Johnson

09-04-2009, 06:40 AM

Actually just preorded the 7d. talked to my wife about and and really played up the taking of great photos of our son. I bought her a couple of new dresses and she is happy. :)

That's funny, I did the same thing and told her we could split the cost. But I started thinking. That means she now would need to take the cam to picnics, work functions, parties and every other event she goes to. damn that. I'll wait.:Drogar-Smoke(DBG):

chrisccw

09-04-2009, 07:39 AM

I'll be content learning with the gh1, build up my experience and lens collection until they properly integrate video into a full frame. this was my justification to sway me from buying a 5dmk2...lol In my opinion the 7d isn't much of an upgrade from the gh1 for me to consider at the moment. Each to their own really.

I have no regrets about the GH1 I ordered and received this week. It is such a pleasure to use. I am blown away by the image of this little camera and the micro four thirds system. I had no trouble importing AVCHD footage into Final Cut. It is gorgeous and clean, and what a joy to have DOF at my fingertips (without a contraption attached to my HD video cameras). The dedicated video camera industry is in big trouble! And I've been a part of it for 25 years. I knew the 7D was coming but thought it had to be a dumbed down version of the 5D for the price: same workflow, same issues, and only 12 minutes record time. I don't see the point of it's rushed release just yet. Except for the price point. I'm happy to enjoy this GH1 and let the dust settle on the next, next, next greatest DSLR. Sony is going to throw their hats into the ring any minute now...and Nikon's follow up to the D300s is in the offing too. Game ON--and it will be good for them to compete for our business! We win!

Tameside

09-04-2009, 08:21 AM

Thing is, after using the GH1, everything else feels big and clumsy! this is the issue with nikon/canon/sony/pentax the form factor is too big! the GH1 is a joy to use, hand-held or on a support, it feels just big enough, not too tiny and not too large. Also the af, for alot of people the stock lens outdoor is a dream, I cant imagine needing anything else, except for getting up close and that beutiful 20 f1.7. This is the point with the GH1 system, small compact, minimal lenses required, af available, and that amazing evf with live histogram. If they can fix that bitrate to constant and add a more sophisticated audio control window, well the new lenses will aid low light and close-up, what mreo do you need? The 7d is big/ and it will not offer useable af with any lense, for me this is a major issue, irrrespective of the improved iq, if I cant get it in focus,(in bright light with an lcd< hmm), I dont think so. 7d, keep it, big clunky and jello-vison.

Viva la Panasonic, GH1.

Tim Joy

09-04-2009, 10:20 AM

I disagree that everything else is too big. The GH1 is too small. Maybe I have big hands, but I'm ALWAYS hitting buttons accidentally on the GH1, and the way I have to hold it to avoid doing so will cramp my hand up like crazy after 30 minutes. I loved the grip on the D90 and will be happy to have something like it on the 7D.

Although, handheld video is useless without a shoulder mount or stabilizer, IMO, so I don't hold the camera much anymore anyway.

Ben_B

09-04-2009, 10:40 AM

At least it's nice and light, for a camera of this form factor that can mean more stable, not less, because you're not getting as tired.

I usually use some handles or a shoulder mount though, not when I'm out and about though, just for real shoots.

PappasArts

09-04-2009, 11:49 PM

I disagree that everything else is too big. The GH1 is too small.

I found it small too; however It's nice to start out that way and if you need more mass around the GH1 body, you build it up. So I modified my GH1 to have a bigger grip the way I like it.

However it's nice to have the option that if you need to get the GH1 in a very tight spot, it naturally has a small foot print.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d94/PappasArts/BWCAM3.jpg

Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
Anamorphic DSLR Lens Test Images... links:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1638289&postcount=97
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1637705&postcount=84
Facebook & Myspace:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Pappas/573417404
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com

Ben_B

09-05-2009, 12:21 AM

I really need to get one of those eye-pieces but I can't seem to find one as big and cooshy as that.

Car3o

09-05-2009, 12:36 AM

I found it small too; however It's nice to start out that way and if you need more mass around the GH1 body, you build it up. So I modified my GH1 to have a bigger grip the way I like it.

However it's nice to have the option that if you need to get the GH1 in a very tight spot, it naturally has a small foot print.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d94/PappasArts/BWCAM3.jpg

Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
Anamorphic DSLR Lens Test Images... links:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1638289&postcount=97
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1637705&postcount=84
Facebook & Myspace:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Pappas/573417404
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com

can you show how you attach the eye piece?

Ben_B

09-05-2009, 12:49 AM

And what model betacam did this come from so I can find the damn thing?

AdrianF

09-05-2009, 02:47 AM

I found it small too; however It's nice to start out that way and if you need more mass around the GH1 body, you build it up. So I modified my GH1 to have a bigger grip the way I like it.

What battery grip are you using and how did you get it to work?

On the mud issue, I recently shot a music video in a woodland (720), using only available light and a lot of the shooting was handheld, including running with the camera and whip pans. I've only managed to find 2 shots with mud artifacts, but only in the most extreme camera movements, I had to step through frame by frame to actually find it.

As others have said over and over again, if you use good shooting practice and set up the camera correctly, this is a very small issue that's been blown out of all proportion. This camera comes at such a good price point which means that a lot of inexperienced users are shooting with it ( probably the reason the mud issue got so much coverage ) so the fact that this camera forces these users to learn good basic techniques could be seen as a positive.