sdhc bad sectors

[sadude]

Im really concerned about my decision to use SDHC cards with my Sony PMW EX1. I originally decided on purchasing the Sony EX1 over the Sony Z7 which shoots on HDV because i knew the Sony EX1 was true High Definition and that I could Use SDHC cards wih a certain express card reader That i will not mention at this time.

How ever, i have been plaged with problems from the start. I originally lost almost an hours critical footage with using my SDHC Cards and the express card reader. The card just packed up at the end and became unreadable in the camera and in any card reader, so i lost my footage and for the rest of the shoot i was worried about loosing more footage. Then towards the end of the shoot it happened again.

This time it was an important interview. the card just packed up and became unreadable again. the camera couldnt even recongnise it.

I returned the 2 out of 5 SDHC cards and got them exchanged, now i write this after spending the night trying to save an absolutely critical shot that is written on supposedly bad sectors on a SDHC card.

I am starting to see why Sony Charge so much for there SXS cards.

the cards i am using with my expresscard reader are Sandisk Ultra 2 class 4, 16 Gigabyte cards. 15MB/s.

I believe that last part to be important. 15 MB/s, i believe that the SDHC cards are not designed to handle the sony EX1 High Definition at HIgh Quality 50I or 25P modes. And i am not even over cranking.

I read a thread on this site about using these cards and then also later the cards and card reader i bought were advertised as being able to handle shooting in HIGH Quality with the EX1 camera.

Do You know what a bad sector is? I learnt the hard way, your SDHC card is divided up into sectors, when one sector goes bang then you loose whats on that sector. Im Guessing Sony's SXS cards dont have this problem and if they do the extra cost of the card is because they are designed to keep this problem to a minimun.

Whats worse is that the clip with the bad sectors on it can be read still but i can only see the video before and after and inbetween the bad sectors on the clip. So i now need to use a plugin on my SONY CLIP BROWSER that has the ability to use mark in and mark out points. Do you know how much that plug in cost? over $300.

As soon as the clip browser or my PC detect the bad sector the card is instantly ejected from the computer and the conversion is reads error.

I believe the EX1 Camera sends MORE MB/s to the card that the card can handle, and at certain times during filming the MB/s are so high that the SDHC fails whilst recording even when not over cranking (i dont over crank with these cards ever!!!)

[Kenny_G]

You are one very unlucky person. I have used the cheap card as you call them, so many times without any problem. The only thing that gave me problems in the past was the Sony one thousand dollar recorder that had so many restore errors that I am not using it anymore. Waste of money. Another Sony rip-off. None of the SanDisk cards gave me any problem whatsoever. I also have some 16 GB Kingston cards, but they give me restore errors when shooting in HQ-mode not in HDV-mode. For me the cards are not the problem, but the EX3 that malfunctioned more than 4 times. I had to send it in and I am waiting for it to be returned. The lens is vibrating after a while and the picture does the same. I had to buy an EX1 two weeks ago to keep the customer happy. All the SanDisk card work fine in the EX1.

[newtmitch]

I must say that I have a similar experience to Kenny. I have two SDHD adapters and two SDHD cards at this time - a 16G SanDisk UltraII 15Mbps Class 2 card, and a 32G of the same type. I use those for 90% of my recording and have NEVER had a problem writing or reading from either of them using normal 24p, 30p, or 60i modes.

When I need to overcrank, I use my two Sony SxS 8G cards exclusively. I can use my 16G SDHD card for overcranking but haven't tested it out for a super-long extended clip recording to see if at some point it fails - so I go with the SxS cards, which I know work. The 32G SDHD card fails at overcranking nearly immediately, but to be fair, I knew that card was not "blessed" for the adapter when I purchased it. I would get another 16G card when I need to have more storage space.

The EX1 and the HVX200 were my main choices when upgrading to an HD camera several months ago. I don't want to bring up the HVX vs. EX war here, but one of the big "wins" for the EX-1 in my purchasing decision was the cost of media options as there is, to my knowledge, no alternative to P2 cards for the Pannys. However, if there was no third-party option, or if they didn't work for me for some reason, I'd still be okay with the SxS cards because they're priced similarly to the P2 cards.

Have you tried any SxS cards in your camera to see if you have the same problem? That would isolate the SDHD cards as the issue and not the camera - if you have a similar problem with the SxS the camera itself could be the culprit.

[sadude]

Have you tried any SxS cards in your camera to see if you have the same problem? That would isolate the SDHD cards as the issue and not the camera - if you have a similar problem with the SxS the camera itself could be the culprit.

Yes, i have a SXS card 8gig that came with the camera, performs flawlessly. I have done some more research on the Sandisk cards and have found out that they are known for failing with the EX1 camera.




You are one very unlucky person.

That is unlikely, i can see how you may of drawn that conclusion from my post, however, i know im not the only one out there with Sandisk problems. These cards are not the best option for the SDHC and card reader combination. Manafacturing standards are not consistent.

I have had 3 out of 7 cards with faults on them. That is not just unlucky, that says the cards don't work full stop.

I dont ever over crank the cards, i shoot at High quality at 50I. I am considering down grading my setting to Standard quality HDV untill i have a better solution with my cards.

The question is what can i use instead of the sandisk cards? Apparantly the ATP ProMax 150X 16GB Class 6 cards are better and have a higher manufacturing standard, which means they have less chance of having defects or bad sectors.

However now the extra money i am going to spend means that right in the beginning i would of been able to buy a second 8 GIG SXS card. But thats only Half an hours footage for the same price with SDHC i can get 5 hours. Im starting to miss tapes

[Chadfish]

The Hoodman adapter and "RAW" cards have a great track record, and apparently zero failed cards in the field. The RAW card is a class 6, and they cost 100.00. One problem that can happen with SDHC cards is they write slower. YOu need to wait until the LED over the card slot is out of the red and into the green before starting a new shot. It takes slightly longer than the SxS cards. But with these Raw cards, they are designed for photography, and built with higher quality control. The camera is spitting out 35mbps, so a 15mbps class 4 card is not going to cut it on specks alone. Sandiscs are more for the masses and their point and shoot cameras.

Going to a card adapter is already a compromise. I think 150.00 for the Hoodman SxSxSDHC Turnkey Kit 16 gig is an awesome deal at 140.00, vs 800.00 for 2 8 Gig SxS cards. To try to squeeze out even more savings by purchasing cheap Sandisc cards is really taking the compromise into dangerous territory. Sandiscs can work, but they either work or they don't. That's due to quality control. In theory they work, but because they pump out millions of these cards, they have a higher percent of accepted fail rate.

How much does it cost for a days work with talent, employees, your time? 150.00? More? By cheaping out you have cost yourself more money than it would have to just get the 100.00 RAW SDHC card, which of course is still a compromise.

All that being said, I have had "Restore Media" errors with my Raw card - but that was only because I left the camera in overcrank mode. I just turned the camera off, back on, and the "Execute restore media?" came up and I did it, and all shots were there, and I was surprised that I had as much slow motion as I did on the SDHC card. Bottom line - no footage lost. Bigger bottom line - I would much rather have 4 32 gig SXS cards, but I don't have that kind of money.

Anyway that's my take on the thing. I am not shilling for Hoodman, but their cards have a good track record. I have been sloppy with they way I treated the cards and they have done pretty good against my abuse. Mostly just watch for the card to stop writing before you hit record again.

Here's a little review from Adam: http://www.vimeo.com/5213826

Chadfish

[planetweckesser]

Ok - with all the discussion about the SDHC cards on this forum and the "other forum" - I finally decided to bite the bullet and order 2 - 16 GB Sony SxS cards when I found them to be $ 489 each with no shipping or tax and were from a reputable dealer. I already have 2 - 8GB that I got with the camera (and with a special incentive offer) so it is nearly 3 hours recording time. I also have 6 Transcend 16 GB Class 6 cards with MxR adaptors for each and I have never had a problem with them but think I will go with the Sony (at this price) and use the others for really long shoots.

[Chadfish]

planetwekesser

Where did you find 16 gig Sony SxS cards?! I thought they were gone.

[Kenny_G]

There are fake Sandisk memory cards out there. perhaps you got some of them.
By the way Sadude, you are for real or not?
What I mean is that you might be on the Sony paylist to discourage the use of the cheap alternative to the over priced SxS cards. Hope you are not, but having dealed with Sony, everything is possible. If you are for real, please forgive me.

[sadude]

There are fake Sandisk memory cards out there. perhaps you got some of them.
By the way Sadude, you are for real or not?
What I mean is that you might be on the Sony paylist to discourage the use of the cheap alternative to the over priced SxS cards. Hope you are not, but having dealed with Sony, everything is possible. If you are for real, please forgive me.

I assure you i do not work for sony. I run a television company in South Africa. We make documentaries and corporate videos.


There are fake Sandisk memory cards out there. perhaps you got some of them.

My SDHC cards are genuine. They come from a reputable and respected supplier. I find it strange that you would blindly swear your allegance to the sandisk SDHC cards, i could equally ask you if perhaps you have something to gain from punting these as a good candidate for the SDHC and Adapter combo. if you are for real please forgive me.:D

Ive written on this forum before i even bought my EX1 camera, i used this forum extensively for research, to help me decide which camera i should get.

I originally wanted a Z7, but after some long debating and deciding i went for the Ex1. I made this decision based on the idea that it is a good camera to transition into based on its price and because i can get cheap memory cards that can be used successfully.

i Am now in the situation that i have a really cool camera that shoots beutiful images but i have no way of safely storing those images onto card other than the SXS cards. I am sorry if you to have the Sandisk cards and after reading this are worried about your cards also going bang. But i want to write about my experience here so maybe someone can give me another option for SDHC cards or maybe i can help someone else decide about using or not using SANDISK.



The Hoodman adapter and "RAW" cards have a great track record.

thank you i will look into this, the raw card option actually seems like it will be a step up, because i belive it has something to do with the speed at which the EX1 records to the SDHC cards

[sadude]

I found a way to manage to salvage some of my footage from the clip that was written on a bad sector on a SDHC SANDISK card.

The problem i was having is that i could not manage to copy my footage off of my SANDISk SDHC card because as soon as the program i was using to copy with (just windows explorer) as soon as it reached the point on the copying where the bad sector was then it would immediately disconnect the card from the computer and delete what ever footage it had already copied.

Also when using XDCAM Clip browser, the same thing would happen either when i was viewing the footage and it reached the bad sector on my Sandisk SDHC or when i was attempting to make an MXF copy of the footage.

For any one who may be experiencing this problem here is the work around.

The trick is to use mark in and mark out points on your clip that has the bad sectors. Try to avoid viewing over the bad sectors, if this happens and your card gets rejected from the computer then just reload it.
Once you have placed your in and out points either before or after the bad sectors then right click the source clip in the source clip viewer inside the XDCAM clip browser. You will see the options come up to import, export and then below them there is the option "new clip using in/out section. This last option is the saviour it creates a new clip of just what you have chosen, this means you can save whats before and after the bad sectors by just making them into new clips, it also stops the program from scanning the bad sector which causes the card to be ejected.

No need to buy the expensive plugin. oops i shouldnt be saying that because im supposed to be working for sony...not.

interms of using the sandisk card again after it has done this, umm...no. my recommendations is to not use SANDISK SDHC cards for important shots, unless you are feeling lucky, its not that i was unlucky, it that i was not lucky when using these cheap cards:smile:

[planetweckesser]

planetwekesser

Where did you find 16 gig Sony SxS cards?! I thought they were gone.

The "other forum" does not allow you to post links to non-sponsors - forgive my ignorance - is this a sponsored forum and the same rules apply? I would be happy to post the links - it is from what sounds like a "mom and pop" company in Virginia - don't think they would pawn off fake stuff or substitute Sandisk.

BTW the 16GB cards are all over the place - B&HPhotovideo has lowered their prices to $ 540.

[mico]

What specific "certain expresscard reader" are you using?

What firmware is your camera?

[xort]

your sandisc cards are class 4. I am using transcend class 6 with no problems. so far I bought 8 cards and all are good.
perhaps you bought a type of card that is not appropriate for this use?

[nsoltz]

I'll add that I have never had a single problem with SanDisk or Transcend Class 6 cards.

[newtmitch]

I'm using Class 2 Sandisk SDHD cards, per my previous post. I believe since I bought mine they rebranded them "Class 6" (because higher is better, right?) but essentially the same card, from what I understand.

I'm using the MxR adapters.

[Kenny_G]

interms of using the sandisk card again after it has done this, umm...no. my recommendations is to not use SANDISK SDHC cards for important shots, unless you are feeling lucky, its not that i was unlucky, it that i was not lucky when using these cheap cards:smile:

What I am saying is that the so called cheap cards are very reliable and for the money you paid for the SxS, it must be reliable. Even though if money was not a factor (if I am loaded), I would only buy SxS cards of 32Gb and be a good sponsor of Sony. on the other hand, if I was loaded, I would have bought a 2/3" HD cam from panasonic. Though they are also ripping you off with the P2-cards, their service is much better than Sony.

Have you ever thought that the price of the SxS cards is much too high?
It is like making a very attractive car with a reasonable price, but if you want to drive it, you need to buy special SxS gasoline that is ten times the price of normal gasoline. The only differce with the normal gasoline is that the car can drive much faster than we normal drive. To be sure that the car is not working with normal gasoline, you build a fuel analyzer in the carburetor that tells the driver who put normal gasoline in the tank: "Fuel not compatible, refuel with SxS fuel and the egine shuts down.

But luckily for the car owners, the car company made an extra tank that can be fitted inside the car to get extra mileage without refueling. To let this extra tank work, the car company had to disable the analyzer in the carburetor. So one day someone, just by good fortune, put normal gas in the tank and to his surprise the car just work fine.

The car company was very annoyed and they start making commercials telling the car owners how bad the "cheap" gasoline is for the performance of the car.

[sadude]

your sandisc cards are class 4. I am using transcend class 6 with no problems. so far I bought 8 cards and all are good.
perhaps you bought a type of card that is not appropriate for this use?
none of these cards are intended for this use. the card intended for this use is a SXS card. But not all of us want to fork out so much money for the SXS cards that hopefully will be much cheaper in the future

Ive decided to exchange my sandisks for ATP ProMax 150X 16GB
Class 6, does anybody have any experience working with these cards?

[GuyB]

Hi all,

I recently (a week ago) had a case of the Sandisk Ultra II 15Mbps card go belly up on me during recording. I lost all footage on this card. For the most part, this could have been avoided:

You see, while recording to this card, early on (first 5 min...) I recieved a 'Can No Proceed' prompt on the LCD. Normally I see this if say you press a button for a function that does not work at that time (eg clip review while recording) etc but I was sure I didn't press anything. I assumed I had though.

It would appear that the camera somehow new something was wrong, unfortunately it did appear to keep writing to that card as normal. It was only later that the problem was found (the card is not recognised by any standard software.

In this case I was also recording a DVD backup at the same time from the analogue out so no footage was lost, just the ability to offer it in HD.

I will point out though a piece of software everyone should consider. Its called
RecoveryFix (for windows).

This software has saved me on multiple occasions. Even in this case above, where none of my computers would do anything but lock up accessing the SDHC card, this application was able to copy off ALL the data (all 16GB). Unfortuanatley in this case, it was all corrupted, but in the past, in similar situations, with my DSLR & RAW files on a faulty CF card it rescued 16GB worth of RAW files minus about 4 corrupt ones.

I use SDHC and HDD/SSDs with the full knowledge that something might go wrong, much more so than SxS. SxS has its place, but so does SDHC. Filming these dance competitions on the weekend, I would have needed thousands of dollars of SxS. Instead I used 2 HDDs with SxS safely ready to take over in slot 2 should it be needed. It was needed once, with a HDD giving a restore message when recording started, switch, start recording to SxS and fix the HDD later. In the end all I needed to do was remove and replace the HDD card in the camera, no restore was actually needed... 9 hours of footage later...

I use and recommend using alternative media, but you need to use it with the knowledge there may be issues no and again. Test your media well before use too!

[adamr316]

planetwekesser

Where did you find 16 gig Sony SxS cards?! I thought they were gone.

Yeah...so did I. B&H listed them as discontinued a few weeks back but I just checked their site. Apparently the 8GB cards are now discontinued and 16GB are back in production at $530/pop.

[cheezweezl]

My SDHC cards are genuine. They come from a reputable and respected supplier.

this means nothing. i got what i believe to be fake transcend cards from amazon, of all places. so i sent them back and decided to pay a few bucks more for the same cards at abel cine tech. they got a bad batch as well. the fake cards must start at the distributors that supply these retailers or even before that stage...

[planetweckesser]

Yeah...so did I. B&H listed them as discontinued a few weeks back but I just checked their site. Apparently the 8GB cards are now discontinued and 16GB are back in production at $530/pop.

Plus 10 ground postage (total 540). The place in Virginia I ordered from are 489/ea if you buy 2 and free postage (2 day UPS) and, of course, no tax.

[sadude]

Hi all,

I recently (a week ago) had a case of the Sandisk Ultra II 15Mbps card go belly up on me during recording. I lost all footage on this card. For the most part, this could have been avoided:

You see, while recording to this card, early on (first 5 min...) I recieved a 'Can No Proceed' prompt on the LCD. Normally I see this if say you press a button for a function that does not work at that time (eg clip review while recording) etc but I was sure I didn't press anything. I assumed I had though.

It would appear that the camera somehow new something was wrong, unfortunately it did appear to keep writing to that card as normal. It was only later that the problem was found (the card is not recognised by any standard software.

In this case I was also recording a DVD backup at the same time from the analogue out so no footage was lost, just the ability to offer it in HD.

I will point out though a piece of software everyone should consider. Its called
RecoveryFix (for windows).

This software has saved me on multiple occasions. Even in this case above, where none of my computers would do anything but lock up accessing the SDHC card, this application was able to copy off ALL the data (all 16GB). Unfortuanatley in this case, it was all corrupted, but in the past, in similar situations, with my DSLR & RAW files on a faulty CF card it rescued 16GB worth of RAW files minus about 4 corrupt ones.

I use SDHC and HDD/SSDs with the full knowledge that something might go wrong, much more so than SxS. SxS has its place, but so does SDHC. Filming these dance competitions on the weekend, I would have needed thousands of dollars of SxS. Instead I used 2 HDDs with SxS safely ready to take over in slot 2 should it be needed. It was needed once, with a HDD giving a restore message when recording started, switch, start recording to SxS and fix the HDD later. In the end all I needed to do was remove and replace the HDD card in the camera, no restore was actually needed... 9 hours of footage later...

I use and recommend using alternative media, but you need to use it with the knowledge there may be issues no and again. Test your media well before use too!

Hi guy, i want to ask you if you are still as excited about SDHC cards as you were when you first started using them, Maybe now you have come across a few problems with these cards that has made you less optimistic about this option for recording hd. I dont know im just asking.

the reason i ask is because i am in the process of returning my sandisks and i will have to pay in an extra $100 to get a better type of card ATX. Should i cut my losses or upgrade?

[GuyB]

Hi guy, i want to ask you if you are still as excited about SDHC cards as you were when you first started using them, Maybe now you have come across a few problems with these cards that has made you less optimistic about this option for recording hd. I dont know im just asking.

the reason i ask is because i am in the process of returning my sandisks and i will have to pay in an extra $100 to get a better type of card ATX. Should i cut my losses or upgrade?

Yes and no. In many ways SDHC is a godsend, I've rarely used my SxS since getting it but I also know that I have to be more careful with my cards and data. I think what happned to that card of mine was very rare, normally most data could be recovered and quality SDHC cards work just fine, remembering that there have been reports of genuine SxS failing too. It would be an absolute nightmare shooting this shoot with my limited stock of SxS. I'd be as likely to delete my own data copying and formatting cards as have a SDHC card go crook.

What I would like Sony to do is come out with an SxS Express Card based SDHC adaptor! Get rid of that USB bottleneck of the camera and let these cards (SDHC, HDD & SSDs) offer their full potential in capacity and speed. It would also be good if Sony offered an option of redundant recording, recording to both slots at the same time. Sure you couldn't record contineously but with 308min recording to an 80GB HDD it would be very safe long form recording... There are so many things Sony could do, so little they will. In fact, all they need to do is offer an open developers kit into the PCI Express based driver interface and let 3rd pary developers do the rest. Then there is no responsibility back on them... Got to get rid of this silly 80GB partition limit though...

[btdsullivan]

I bought my EX-1 in January, 2010 and here is the way that works for me. I bought 2-32GB SXS-1 cards ($579/each) when I bought the camera. I use these whenever I shoot with the camera. If the project calls for more than that, I will go to the 16GB SXS card that came with the camera. In total that is about 5 hours of HD. I also have bought some generic 32GB Class 6 SDHC cards that I use as back-up cards. I bought them at the local Micro Center for $54.99 each. Whenever I get a chance, I transfer from the SXS-1 card to the SDHC card through an adapter by calling up the clip copy section on the "Others" menu in the EX-1. I currently have numerous projects on SDHC cards as "originals" while I continue to use my my SXS-1 cards. I also transfer to hard drives as well. I have had no problems so far.