Who's actually building a Monster?

[Kholi]

This is the one major thing that keeps getting stuck in my head: How the hell are you going to build a monster on a tight budget? One that's believable?

This is if you've gone the route of an actual monster. Tentacles or big nasty leathery-skinned ones.

Anyone already trying to figure it out?

[Zim]

You don't build a monster,,,,you create it. Or make it in a lab....

[Kholi]

Quite seriously, though, who's constructing a factual monster? Human in a suit, puppet mechanics, etc.

[Nektonic]

You don't build a monster,,,,you create it. Or make it in a lab....

Well, technically, a robot could be a monster, and that would be something you would build.


Quite seriously, though, who's constructing a factual monster? Human in a suit, puppet mechanics, etc.

I'm still narrowing down what story I want to do for the scriptfest portion of the fest, not yet sure if I'll be able to pull off an actual short version of any of my ideas except for one of three.

I'd love to design a monster and collaborate with a practical effects and makeup/prosthetics expert. I don't know with the time limit and everything, plus I can't afford to break the bank for this one film. We'll see what happens.

[MOVIE MASTER]

why build when you have a mother in law!
http://www.kidreviewer.com/images/2008/feb/cloverfield-monster-head-2.jpg

[Nektonic]

why build when you have a mother in law!
http://www.kidreviewer.com/images/2008/feb/cloverfield-monster-head-2.jpg

Scary mother-in-law, I mean nice monster you have there.

Is that a mask that can be purchased, or did you make it?

This raises another question, can we buy an already made mask for our monster? Or, what if I bought a mask and used it as a template to build upon for the final monster?

For example: in the BTS on the DVD for John Carpenter's Halloween, the Michael Myers mask was an altered Ronald Reagan or William Shatner mask or something like that. In the final film, you would never guess that is what his mask started out as.

[Kholi]

Oi... this was actually a serious question that pertains to production value/quality...

[chriscurl]

Kholi, I am guessing that is still up in the air for alot of people, it is for me, seems to be lots o zombies/human monsters in the movies announced so far, I would guess lots of people are still answering that question for themselves at this point.

[Studio595]

Since i wont really have time to build/ rent anything in VT, im going for a cloverfield feel (kinda, not really). Like chris said, its really up in the air right now.

But if i did have the time, i'd go for a 1950's approach and give it a very interesting feel :)

[Kholi]

Kholi, I am guessing that is still up in the air for alot of people, it is for me, seems to be lots o zombies/human monsters in the movies announced so far, I would guess lots of people are still answering that question for themselves at this point.


That's what I thought it would turn out as. Admittedly, I've wasted a good portion of my brain power the past two days trying to concoct a cheap way to construct a monster that counts.

Cheap is the only reason I can't figure it out. LoL

[Rodney V. Smith]

I'm building my monster.

Fortunately I've done some sculpting in the past and I've worked with latex.. plus I know a Special Effects guy here in Atlanta who's giving some tips on how to make it realistic. I can;t afford to hire him (he's done lots of work for the WWE, Turner Broadcasting and a whole bunch of movies) so I'm utilizing what small relationship I have with him to get a decent looking monster.

So that being said I have to fit my actors with prosthetics for some of the actual monster make up... and for some practical damage.

[Stephen Mick]

Sometimes the scariest monster scenes are the ones where you don't ever see the creature, or if you do, you only see bits and pieces. Leaves a bit more to the imagination, I think.

I guess I'd rather see a really well-made SFX hand/claw than an Ed Wood-esque full-body creature suit.

--SM

[RodThompson]

I am sculpting the "Mangina!"

I'm using single-twisted 18 gauge, steel wire for the skeleton, and flat gray plasticine clay for the body.

Still debating on if it will have eyes or not.

ESPgina!

[RodThompson]

Sometimes the scariest monster scenes are the ones where you don't ever see the creature, or if you do, you only see bits and pieces. Leaves a bit more to the imagination, I think.


A cheat... :banned:

[Rodney V. Smith]

Sometimes the scariest monster scenes are the ones where you don't ever see the creature, or if you do, you only see bits and pieces. Leaves a bit more to the imagination, I think.

I guess I'd rather see a really well-made SFX hand/claw than an Ed Wood-esque full-body creature suit.

--SM

You're completely right, but if you dont have the right shape in the shadows.. you've got something that isn't quite working. its HOW you use the shadows etc that makes it give that punch in the gut "wtf" feeling...

[Rodney V. Smith]

A cheat... :banned:

Oh you're just being a big pussy now Rod. :-P You and that monstrousity of yours.

[Zim]

The couple of ideas I have about a monster will be more for a make up guy to work on. If I build one my budget would allow for some cardboard boxes tied together.

[StillGuerrillaFilms]

We'll be creating real monsters using latex prosthetics, realistic claws & dental distortion teeth that are fairly inexpensive. Also i have a big ole bottle of liquid latex left over from all my other crazy antics. Should be interesting.

[AmyO]

A cheat... :banned:

Then call me a cheater-burger, 'cause that's probably the road I'm taking. If I show anything, it will be a hand and arm. There is a make-up artist in town who offered to help last year for Twilight Fest, but her schedule didn't match up with mine. I'm thinking of asking for her assistance if I go that route.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

A cheat... :banned:If it scares me more than some half baked cheesy homemade monster I'm all for it. :)

Unless of course the latter is done for laughs. Then I'm all for it. :thumbsup:

[ZazaCast]

I'm just casting a real monster! :beer:

[Puckthesane]

My wife?:grin:

[Dingos8mybaby]

If i was doing something for MFest, I'd probably just get an already-available mask and touch it up w/ make-up, latex or modelling wax, etc. Use quick cuts, fast motion, "cool" angles, and creative lighting to work around the crappy parts. FWIW, I remember seeing them film ROBOCOP the TV Series here and half the time, ROBOCOP only had the helmet + shoulder pad 'armor' on, while wearing blue jeans and cowboy boots no less.

Depending on the type of your monster, I think most can use the costume/MU departments to cover lack of SFX expertise/budget. Unless, you're an animator, then the sky's the limit (within the time constraints, of course).

To the poster referencing HALLOWEEN, it was a Bill Shatner mold that Mike Myers wears.

[Kholi]

Guess it's gotta be really creative then. Oi... I hate shorts.

[Jeff Anderson]

This is why I'm going with vampires... teeth I can make... an entire monster... not my thing...

[StillGuerrillaFilms]

My wife?:grin:

You'll pay for this when you least expect it. hahahahahaha :evil:

[J.R. Hudson]

Sometimes the scariest monster scenes are the ones where you don't ever see the creature, or if you do, you only see bits and pieces. Leaves a bit more to the imagination, I think.

I guess I'd rather see a really well-made SFX hand/claw than an Ed Wood-esque full-body creature suit.

--SM


This is true

JAWS, SIGNS, WAR OF THE WORLDS None of these show much of anything until much later in the film.

[Nektonic]

If i was doing something for MFest, I'd probably just get an already-available mask and touch it up w/ make-up, latex or modelling wax, etc. Use quick cuts, fast motion, "cool" angles, and creative lighting to work around the crappy parts. FWIW, I remember seeing them film ROBOCOP the TV Series here and half the time, ROBOCOP only had the helmet + shoulder pad 'armor' on, while wearing blue jeans and cowboy boots no less.

Depending on the type of your monster, I think most can use the costume/MU departments to cover lack of SFX expertise/budget. Unless, you're an animator, then the sky's the limit (within the time constraints, of course).

To the poster referencing HALLOWEEN, it was a Bill Shatner mold that Mike Myers wears.

Yeah, I'm thinking something along the same lines. I've found some appropriate masks online. Some are just masks you can buy, Halloween stuff, etc... but the one I really love that would also fit my film perfectly is not a mask, but a Halloween display prop. I think with the right lighting, angles, sound design, and editing I can make it work out just great. Also, I would just be using it for the head of the monster, and would have to create the body myself. That is if I need a shot that shows the creature's full figure from head to toe.

This would be something that only the mods could answer, namely, if I buy an already made mask and alter it, is that OK? Or, if I buy a mask or prosthetic from the person or company who actually created it, and get their permission is that also OK? Or are we required to create one from scratch with concept art and either make it ourselves or get someone with the proper skills to make our monster for us?

I'm fine with creating one myself or finding a talented prosthetics dude because it is fun to create one from scratch, but if I can find the perfect prop online, it would knock out one of the many things off the list to do. Not to mention, it might help trim the budget down for some of us too.


This is why I'm going with vampires... teeth I can make... an entire monster... not my thing...

I was thinking of vampires or zombies for mine, but there are already several zombie ones, so I figure at this rate I might as well go all out with a non-human creature (alien, orc, troll, werewolf, etc.). I'd love to do a big ass sea monster, but I don't have access to any ships or anything that would work with those types of stories.


This is true

JAWS, SIGNS, WAR OF THE WORLDS None of these show much of anything until much later in the film.

Even though I'm being very picky about my monster, I plan on not showing too much. It is way more effective to hint than to show.

[Kholi]

Creative ways to "show" the monster's all well n'good. Dunno if I could say that it's any scarier or terrifying not seeing it as it is to see it.

War of the Worlds (newer one), you may not have seen the pilots but you saw the PODS and what they could do, that was scary. CLOVERFIELD, you may not have seen the monster right off, but you still saw the entire thing as it progressed.

[DarkElastic]

Creative ways to "show" the monster's all well n'good. Dunno if I could say that it's any scarier or terrifying not seeing it as it is to see it.

War of the Worlds (newer one), you may not have seen the pilots but you saw the PODS and what they could do, that was scary. CLOVERFIELD, you may not have seen the monster right off, but you still saw the entire thing as it progressed.

Shame the pods were the best thing in that movie...
Alien was very scary without seeing the monster, but was still scary when you did. Predator was a similar build up.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

I think it was a blessing that they had so many mechanical issues with the shark in JAWS.

We didn't even see it during the first attack and in my opinion it's probably the scariest part in the entire film.

MAH

[Nektonic]

Shame the pods were the best thing in that movie...
Alien was very scary without seeing the monster, but was still scary when you did. Predator was a similar build up.

Yeah, that's what I meant too. Start with the mystique, but then slowly reveal a little more of the creature as the film goes on. Then, just as Alien, Predator, and Jaws did, finally give the audience a better view of the monster.

To me that is very satisfying, instead of showing it right off the bat.

What Kholi said about the tripods in War of the Worlds works too. For me, when I say it, I never got the impression that they were going for scary, but for intensity and spectacle. The same thing does sort of apply, because I think the audience wondered if they'd see the aliens that were inside the tripods. So there was still a bit of mystique there until later in the film.

Another good example is Jurassic Park. From the get go, the first scene with the velociraptor in the cage, they built up the suspense and mystery by not showing it. All we saw was an eye and maybe a claw. Same thing with the T-rex. The whole thing with the goat, the storm, then the ripples in the water cups, all building up to the reveal.

[Jeff Anderson]

ha now I've got a completely new idea for a monster... ahh if only I could tell...

[jpsheets]

Hmm, I'm wondering how much disfigurement a person would have to physically have to be a monster? Would a scar be enough?

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Hmm, I'm wondering how much disfigurement a person would have to physically have to be a monster? Would a scar be enough?
It would take more than a scar.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/TheElephantManposter.jpg

Even still he wanted to be known as a man, not a monster. :)

MAH

[jeremytuttle]

Where's Peter Murphy at for this one (he did Visting Steve for ZombieFest (I think it was Zombiefest) he'd be perfect for this Fest... haven't seen him around in a while though:(

[Chris_Keaton]

Do you really need to see the monster?

Some of the best monster films never clearly show the monster. Of course this never happens anymore when the huge budgets comes out.

I have a couple scripts where you never really see the monster. I have a couple where the monster is simple and one where the monster will involve work. Some are funny some are creepy. It can all be done. So if you can't 'build' a monster take a story where that isn't needed or even a benefit.

[jeremytuttle]

Like mentioned a lot of movies will hide the "monster" until later in the movie. I would think as long as the monster is hinted at, grotesque arm here, deformed eye ball there, fangy tooth grin over abouts a way, and maybe most of it is just silhouetted against the back ground (maybe a horn or tentacle is part of that shadowy silhouette)... I think as long as people get that it's monster and not just a guy in a shadow it should be fine... but I'm not a mod so... yeah:)

[DarkElastic]

It would take more than a scar.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/TheElephantManposter.jpg

Even still he wanted to be known as a man, not a monster. :)

MAH

Absolutely brilliant movie!!!

[Kholi]

Do you really need to see the monster?

Some of the best monster films never clearly show the monster. Of course this never happens anymore when the huge budgets comes out.

I have a couple scripts where you never really see the monster. I have a couple where the monster is simple and one where the monster will involve work. Some are funny some are creepy. It can all be done. So if you can't 'build' a monster take a story where that isn't needed or even a benefit.

Not seeing a monster, to me, just feels off. You may not NEED to see it but I'd like to place my money on the idea that if you're doing an original monster movie (not sharks, not zombies, not werewolves or zombies) the audience will feel cheated if they don't get the entire monster at some point or another.

Even in SIGNS we DID get to see an entire alien, no matter which way it came about (through a television mostly).

Audiences have matured. I think they'll accept a few hands or feet or tails throughout, but at SOME point-- if this is an original monster movie-- they want to see the entire thing. Take Cloverfield as a prime and most recent example: everyone on the planet was like "WHAT IS IT!?!?!?". Most of the viral campaigning was centered around what this thing was, because we only heard this horrible (it made my stomach turn, no lie) growl and saw glimpses of it.

But they didn't skimp, they showed it.

I guess if you're talking typical monsters or even feral animals, wolves etc, then you're okay because we know what werewolves look like. We also know what Vampires and Zombies and all that look like. In fact, those kinds might need a "you don't see it" treatment to freshen it up a bit.

I would be, and will be, happy with seeing a semblance of something complete even if it's only a complex silhouette.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Watch this all the way through for a very cool monster/transformation.

Not a rickroll.

Monster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fRQ4aODF44)

[ZazaCast]

yeah... that's a good one! (also the biggest bathroom I've ever seen on a plane)

[Nektonic]

I would be, and will be, happy with seeing a semblance of something complete even if it's only a complex silhouette.

That is a good way to do one on a low budget. That way, you just need the basic shape and not all the surface detail, while you still retain a sense of mystery. Things are usually scarier when we don't know everything about them.

Also, another method would be using quick cuts to accomplish the scare factor.

Checkout this clip from the awesome low budget flick Dog Soldiers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixS3elT4dZ0&feature=related

They use a combination of three methods for the werewolves: POV shots, silhouettes, and fast cuts, plus some frenetic camera work. This scene is earlier in the film, pretty much the Act I to Act II turnover, and later in the film they show the werewolves in more detail.

[Kholi]

Watch this all the way through for a very cool monster/transformation.

Not a rickroll.

Monster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fRQ4aODF44)

Then look at the first comment under it posted 2 weeks ago.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Then look at the first comment under it posted 2 weeks ago.Saw that.

Ever hear the saying 'always leave them wanting more'? I think that's exactly what they did with that opening. Fringe is known for their great openings that draw you in.

On a side note, anyone who expects better than that clip in this Fest is probably expecting too much. :)

They showed plenty of 'Monster' and it worked extremely well.

MAH

[Kholi]

Saw that.

Ever hear the saying 'always leave them wanting more'? I think that's exactly what they did with that opening. Fringe is known for their great openings that draw you in.

On a side note, anyone who expects better than that clip in this Fest is probably expecting too much. :)

They showed plenty of 'Monster' and it worked extremely well.

MAH


Setting pretty low standards and expectations for your peers, aye?

There's no single reason why that can't be produced in this fest, and is probably exactly what these fests encourage.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Setting pretty low standards and expectations for your peers, aye?

There's no single reason why that can't be produced in this fest, and is probably exactly what these fests encourage.Yes, Kholi. Everyone here sucks, you read my mind.
Please don't attempt to read into my words any further than what is posted.

Quite the contrary actually, I just don't expect hollywood budget short films. Call me a realist. I have been here long enough to have seen the past horror Festivals. While some are outstanding, none of them touched the level of SFX in the clip I posted. Nor should they be expected to.

Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. You entering this Fest? :happy:

MAH

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

To get back on topic.... if you create a monster that looks fantastic, then show it off! If what you have is less than ideal.... hide it in the shadows, show it quickly and sparingly. Use sound and suspense to help it gain the respect you think it deserves.

I really do hope we see something like what I linked to. I'm ready to be blown away by a low budget short made in a couple of months that can hold it's own with the big budget shows of today. Looking forward to it.

I've actually seen some gems like that on this forum but none were made so quickly. They took many many months of SFX work after shooting had wrapped.

MAH

[Robert Eldon]

It looks like I did a 'MonsterFest' film back when we had 'Horrorfest'. It had a monster in it and I created a monster for the film. The film was titled "Hellebore".

You can see a picture of the monster at the bottom of the first page here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=72762

Kholi, did you see this film, because I don't remember if you commented?

Maybe I can recycle the film or story and do 'Return of Hellebore'! :)

[D_DUB]

Jaws is one of my favorite movies. One of the things I love about it is that for the first 45 minutes of the movie, you never see the shark, but the terror of its presence is easily felt. I think that maybe even the best monster made on an indie budget could easily look fake (like Spielberg's shark). However you could still try to tell the story by only showing limited views of the monster, while focusing on the suspense of its presence.

[Chris_Keaton]

Watch this all the way through for a very cool monster/transformation.

Not a rickroll.

Monster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fRQ4aODF44)

Loved that when I first saw it. Brilliant.

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

This is the one major thing that keeps getting stuck in my head: How the hell are you going to build a monster on a tight budget? One that's believable?

This is if you've gone the route of an actual monster. Tentacles or big nasty leathery-skinned ones.

Anyone already trying to figure it out?


I don't know if I'll be successful in getting the time to enter this fest, but I'm working on the idea of 'part real', 'part CGI'. The Wife decided to get into the vintage typewriter collector world... so I have a large number of typewriters... so I'm trying to think of some sort of monstrosity built out of these things hanging around the house, and sort of in the direction of "Naked Lunch"(1991), but bigger and ugler, or perhaps something like the orgasmatron in "Barbarella"(1964)...

The current working title is "Fisting the Muse: Just when you thought it was safe to write"...

Log line: An old hack writer attempts to break on through to the other side, using drugs and alcohol to spur The Muse in to action. He soon learns not to fuck with Music.

[Matty_g]

I built a monster named Kholi. He runs on donuts and all he does is breakdance.

[Christian Vincent Jung]

Quite seriously, though, who's constructing a factual monster? Human in a suit, puppet mechanics, etc.

Well, my guess is that one of the challenges of low-budgeting is to think in alternate solutions, so instead of coming up with classical monsters that are in need of a lot of special effects / make up / costume, one should come up with monsters that can be scary and effective without the need of 500 layers of latex... and green goo! :laugh:

[klas]

I will not participate in the MonsterFest but have some experience making low budget monsters.

Check out this shaman/monster type of guy (http://odmarden.se/wishyouarebound.mov), shot with a XL1s in front of a bluescreen some years ago so there are 3d backrounds as well.

Latex masks isn't all that expensive. The type of latex i made that mask with is normally used for castings. You paint what ever you want to cast with it and then you peel of the latex, though I painted the inside of my negative plaster copies of my sculpture.
http://www.tlcband.se/fabrik/ShamanLera.jpg


I also made a copy of my finger for the Shaman to use which I did some make up on..
http://www.tlcband.se/fabrik/FingerDrum.jpg


A YouTube Trailer. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuJZ3R2LQek)



edit:
Oh, I've got this still of the shaman too.
http://www.tlcband.se/fabrik/shaman.jpg

[klas]

I have this quicktime version of the trailer too... (http://www.tlcband.se/fabrik/CrowGirlTrailerH264.mov)

[TMerry]

I am sculpting the "Mangina!"

I'm using single-twisted 18 gauge, steel wire for the skeleton, and flat gray plasticine clay for the body.

Still debating on if it will have eyes or not.

ESPgina!

Rod, your film is becoming more disturbing by the minute! LOL!

[TMerry]

My Monster will be a combination of practical and CG.


Klas: your Rune Board is fantastic, great look.

[Mike Manning]

Isn't the HUlk copyrighted?

[RodThompson]

BAH! I was making a mold of my wang for the BIG FIGHT between Mangina and Penitron 5000 and I realized that I didn't by a big enough green screen. LOL.

[Mike Manning]

Zing!

[TMerry]

BaDoom BoW!

[ZazaCast]

BAH! I was making a mold of my wang for the BIG FIGHT between Mangina and Penitron 5000 and I realized that I didn't by a big enough green screen. LOL.

Saw this at the AVN Expo last year....might be just what you need!
http://www.cloneawilly.com/:thumbsup:

[Mike Manning]

wow that's creepy

[Chamber005]

I did a human monster and (sort of) built one for my webseries that I just launched!

www.youtube.com/user/thegreatindependent (http://www.youtube.com/user/thegreatindependent)

[Nitsuj]

Saw this at the AVN Expo last year....might be just what you need!
http://www.cloneawilly.com/:thumbsup:

A scene just popped into my head for some strange reason.

INT. BAR - NIGHT
In walks a guy with a present. He spots a beautiful girl and walks over to her.
GUY
Hello baby. Damn you are like fine wine.
GIRL
Get lost creep.

Guy hands woman a present. It is his cloneawilly.

GUY
I made it thinking of you. Trust me you will be back.

Guy's number is on the present.

INT. GUY'S APARTMENT - NIGHT

Phone rings. Guy answers.

GIRL
We need to talk.

Insert sick and twisted monster flick here.

--------

Don't ask people... Scenes always pop into my head when you are presented with great material.