HCM40 and HMC150 alike?

[journalist]

What is really the tech difference between these 2?

jussi

[Duke M.]

1/4" Sensor vs. 1/3"
1080i instead of 1080p (both do 720p)
Shutter speeds only set in menu
40.8mm (35mm lens equivalent) wide-angle setting (i.e. not wide at all)

Also important will be the compression bit rate which don't seem to be mentioned in the specs.

Basically its a consumer camera that's beat by the HV30 for less than half the price.

[matt s.]

Wrong. the 40 does HD formats: 1080/60i, 1080/30p, 1080/24p (Native); 720/60p, 720/30p, 720/24p (Native).

PH mode is 21mbps max 24mbps

Its definitely in a league above the HV30 IMO.

[Philip Goetz]

10.6 megapixel stills!

[Allen Ellis]

It's a step above the HV30 in a number of ways, most noteably I think the XLR option and waveform monitor.

[Cranky]

1/4" Sensor vs. 1/3"
1080i instead of 1080p (both do 720p)
The HV does not do 720p. The HMC40 can record in true 1080p, unlike the HPX170, for example.

[Mark Whalen]

I have an HMC40 on pre-order with Full Compass. It'll be interesting to compare the camera with the HMC150.

Yes, the chips on the HMC40 are certainly smaller than its larger sibling. That said, there are market segments which could benefit from the smaller form factor and quasi-professional features of the HMC40: better audio and timestamp features were just a couple of the criteria I had when choosing to add the HMC40 for legal videography. Lack of immediate access to manual controls on the HV30 and HV40 (other than through menus) also bumped them out of the running.

[journalist]

I guess the diff (picturequality) between 150 and 40 is minimal, at least in good lightning. Myself have hvx 200, 170 and Pana's few years old little proline 1/4" 1AGSU... what so ever. Over web or DVD the is very little difference between these, if you don't have to use enlargening in NLE.

40 seems to have great new details in focusing also. 720 50P is great too.

But those (me included) who need still's also, I still have wait for suitable VDSLR meaning 5mkII & palcountry 25 P video.

[AGMedia]

Unless I missed it -- no one mentioned the (HMC150) CCD vs. (HMC40) CMOS. This is a vast, vast discussion comparing the two -- but in a sentence -- yes, it's a big difference.

The HMC40 is ideal for journalists and vloggers. It's an enhanced version of the top of the line Panasonic consumer model. The HMC40 images will be nice -- but it's a camera designed for a different market than the HMC150. In other words -- if you're a videographer or indy type -- the HMC150 is an ideal way to get the HVX benefits without having to buy into "the P2 workflow," (also, mpeg-4 beats even higher bitrate mpeg-2) -- whereas the HMC40 is PERFECT if you're a reporter for a newspaper that wants web video for the web site, or a pro vlogger who wants better web videos. For event and indy guys -- the HMC40 will have significant limitations, and for journalists and vloggers the HMC150 may be too complex.

Regarding comparing the HMC40 to a Canon HV30 -- for a range of reasons that's the precise equivalent of comparing a Porche to a Volkswagen (codecs, features, 3mos vs 1 cmos, etc.).

[Allen Ellis]

I think that's a fantastic summary comparing the two, AGMedia :)

[Cranky]

the HMC40 is PERFECT if you're a reporter for a newspaper that wants web video for the web site, or a pro vlogger who wants better web videos.
Are you implying that the image from the HMC40 will be not up to TV standards? Come on. There are quite a few TV shows shot with the V1 having 1/4" chips. I really don't think that the HMC40's video will look worse than the V1U's.

[Tibby]

Low light capabilities aside, it stands to reason that the HMC40 could surpass the HMC150 in regards to picture quality. Yes, there is the potential for CMOS skew, but it seems very minimal in the HS300/TM300 cameras.

Personally I'll take a native 1/4.1 1080p chip camera over an uprezzed 1/3 720p chip camera. For that matter I'd take a native 1/4.1 720p cam over a 1/3 uprezzed 720p cam.

[Barry_Green]

it stands to reason that the HMC40 could surpass the HMC150 in regards to picture quality.
Really? I think that remains to be seen. I don't doubt that the HMC40 might surpass the HMC150 in terms of resolution, but there's much more to picture quality than just resolution. Dynamic range, sensitivity, noise performance, contrast, all sorts of things that count more than pixels.

We will see soon enough. The HMC40 is supposed to hit the shelves this month, last I heard.

[Tibby]

Really? I think that remains to be seen. I don't doubt that the HMC40 might surpass the HMC150 in terms of resolution, but there's much more to picture quality than just resolution. Dynamic range, sensitivity, noise performance, contrast, all sorts of things that count more than pixels.

We will see soon enough. The HMC40 is supposed to hit the shelves this month, last I heard.

Like I said, it stands to reason that it "could". Of course there are different variables involved, on that I agree.

The last half of my comment was purely from a standpoint of personal preference.

But, like you said, we'll see how it shakes out in the next month. I'm actually very interested in this camera, and I am very anxious to see some footage from it.

[Arc-en-ciel]

Bonjour Barry,

I'm shure there will be a difference between 40 and 150.
my question: could we use the HMC40 as C cam.?
I have a HVX200 and a HPX170, and use a HMC150 as C cam.
I want to replace the HMC150 by the HMC40.
In fact, it's not exactly that. I want to use the combo HMR10-HCK10 and they
will have the same image quality then the HMC40 I think.
As C cam this combo will give a lot of possibility.
At this moment I am working on a carbon fiber jib.

Merci!

[Barry_Green]

No way to know yet if they will intercut well. My guess is that it will work, Panasonic tries to keep the gamma and colorimetry the same in all their professional camcorders, but we won't know for sure until we try it.

[Arc-en-ciel]

Merci Barry,

I hope it will.
I have seen a TV show, in HD, and they use a Sony HXR-MC1P only for some shots on the drums.
It was not cutting very well, but give interesting angle.
So, now waiting for Pana...

[mcsmooth]

Like I said, it stands to reason that it "could". Of course there are different variables involved, on that I agree.

The last half of my comment was purely from a standpoint of personal preference.

But, like you said, we'll see how it shakes out in the next month. I'm actually very interested in this camera, and I am very anxious to see some footage from it.
True, nobody knows yet, but I am also very interested to see sample footage and comparisons. Since the announcement, I have also been speculating the potential for a much sharper picture in certain environments. Sure there are many variables, and I know the 150 will remain a much better camera overall, but I really want to see what PH 1080p AVCHD can do paired with full raster chips. As we have found out, 1080p on the 150 has bandwidth to spare.

I love the picture on the 150 in so many ways, the only area that leaves a bit to be desired are highly detailed shots, like landscapes. So I have to imagine that Tibby and many others are wanting to see if the hmc40 can possibly fill in on shots like that. Unless something is very wrong, it should certainly be capable of a sharper picture... but as Barry pointed out, that could mean very little if other aspects of the picture are no good. I would not expect the 40 to compare to the 150 on fast motion (ccd vs cmos) and low-light.

For anyone who is considering the 40 as a second cam to the 150... I think the real debate will be if it is worth getting over the GH1. Depending on the application, both may have their own strong points.

[Barry_Green]

Full-raster 1/3" chips on AVC-Intra are definitely way sharper than you'd expect, and every bit as sharp as the 1/2" chips on the EX1/EX3.

But 1/4" is, to me, an unknown, from the aspect that now we're dealing with such tiny pixels that sooner or later diffraction will have a noticeable impact on the image. In general, I would expect the image to be at least as sharp as the HMC150, and the potential exists for substantial sharpness improvements -- but pixels aren't everything, and that's why I say "let's see."

It shouldn't be long now.

[BobDiaz]

According to the specification sheet for the HMC40, "Minimum Luminance: Approx. 1 lx (Gain: +34 dB, Slow Shutter: 1/2 sec.)"

What I get from this is that if we increase the shutter speed to say 1/15, the camera would require 7.5 lx at +34dB Gain. Knock the gain down by say, 18db (+34dB - 18dB = +16dB of gain) and the light requires would be about 60 lx.

This strongly suggests that the camera will likely do very well with good light, but does not appear to be a low light camera.


Of interest is the fact that the camera does record "Interval REC *2: 1 sec. / 10 sec. / 30 sec. / 1 min. / 2 min. / OFF
*2: Records only in PH mode, 1080/24p. The maximum recording interval is 24 hours."


It will be interesting to see the results from this camera....


Bob Diaz

[docrock]

I'm very excited for this cam...Just shot another wedding with 200a and 5d2 (B cam) last weekend and I give up. The 5d2 is the love of my life for stills but I cannot shoot ANY motion video with it at all:) Feel like a rookie learning to manually focus all over again....A $2000 pro video choice is perfect, I came so close to pulling the trigger on the 150 but now it's time to wait it out. My partner is my wife....and for her, 2 pounds for run and gun will be perfect! The 200a is heavy after a while on the wrist...and I avoid low light situations with my HVX anyway...I'm not as concerned with low light performance if it delivers with decent lighting. We have the Canon for high ISO shooting.

Excellent news

Barry...are you going to get a review unit? Does anyone receive units from the Broadcast Division for preliminary reviews?

J

[Barry_Green]

I've requested a review unit. I'm hoping to get one soon.

[burning holmes]

Can u please help me between the ag-hmc150 and ag-hmc-40...i need to get a camera and am deciding which one to go with...final output of media will be short indie films for festivals and local showings in movie theatres in local theatres..i just sold my dvx100b and want a new camera...we shot an indie film on the 100b and played it on the big screen and it looked good enough ...so in that regards which camera would be the best for that again....which camera would mr. barry green go for if he was to buy either of the two sir... TIM HOLMES

[Barry_Green]

I like the HMC150 very much. The 150 is better than the HMC40 in every possible way (except potential sharpness). But it also costs more than 50% more. If money is no object, get the HMC150. If you can't afford the HMC150, then it isn't an option anyway.

But we don't really know how the HMC40 will perform yet.

[Arc-en-ciel]

Bonjour Tim,

I was using some DVX for few years. Now I use a HVX200, HPX170 and HMC150.
I can tell you that you will see a big difference if you switch to the HMC150.
Specially if you work in 16-9.
As Barry said go for the 150,
and as BobDiaz refer to the spec. the 40 will not be topgun in low light.
HMC150 - 3Lx F1.6 +12db 1/25 sec.
HMC40 - 1Lx +34db 1/2 sec.

For the moment the spec show bad news, but we will see. The spec are not always the only thing.
The HVX200 have the same spec in low light than the HPX170, and in fact there is a big difference. You have to go to the HVX200a to have the same result.

hope it's help

[BobDiaz]

I've requested a review unit. I'm hoping to get one soon.


Barry,

Once you do get a unit, test it, and write about it. Will we see the write up in this section of the forum OR will you post it in the Articles section???


Bob Diaz

[Barry_Green]

Probably in the "Articles" section.