DIY micro35 kit (New Footage!)

[Shaw]

The problem with vibrating ground glass is that it can cause the glass to waver back and forth between the focal plane giving crazy focus effects when you don't want them.

[filmfan222]

Hey guys, long time, first time.

I am interested in purchasing one of these DIY 35 kits for my non A dvx but can anyone recommend a good brand of cheap 35 primes? I know Zeiss and or Cooke are out of the question but could I find a decent set of nikons from 14mm out to 300mm? I come from a computer graphics background so im used to simulating lenses, not actually using them.

any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

[Unix]

I forgot does Redrock's project inverse the image?????
nad has to be inversed again in post or not?
there are like 5 threads on the micro35, sorry I'm to lazy

[fomoDVXpal]

plus does the zoom still function the same?

[Barry_Green]

Zoom would not function at all, no. You are setting your camera to focus on a small ground glass image, and you lock the zoom and focus at that setting.

Then you attach different lenses to the front, and control focus and focal length on THAT lens, never touching the DVX lens again (while the adapter is attached).

[embers.]

Hey guys, long time, first time.

I am interested in purchasing one of these DIY 35 kits for my non A dvx but can anyone recommend a good brand of cheap 35 primes? I know Zeiss and or Cooke are out of the question but could I find a decent set of nikons from 14mm out to 300mm? I come from a computer graphics background so im used to simulating lenses, not actually using them.

any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

[Shaw]

Well there's many definitions of cheap. What's your budget range?

Nikon lenses are good in terms of cost vs performance.

[NickMilo]

Well there's many definitions of cheap. *What's your budget range?

Nikon lenses are good in terms of cost vs performance.

I been looking around for lenses to use, but not sure which one. *I am looking to spend around $200-500. *Any recomendation on which type of lens to get, like the general specifications for the best 'all round' video. *(Yeah, I'm a newbie when it comes to film lenses)

[filmfan222]

I guess Im looking for a set of Primes where I can get a good wide angle, a normal and a pretty good telephoto for under 600-800.

What do you all think about a wide angle, and then a zoom to cover the other primes? do they not carry the optic quality?

[goober542]

Primes give you a better image. You have typically faster lenses when they are primes as well. I say stick with primes unless you have a shot that specifically needs to zoom during it. Thats my 2 cents though. If Barry will chime in on this I am sure he will give you a much better explanation. I do know they will give you a slightly crisper image as well.

[filmfan222]

From what I understand from my limited knowledge is that there is more glass elements etc in a zoom lense and that means more absorption etc....


again I come from computer graphics where we have every lense ever made in any aspect ratio at any time :-)

[Taylor Moore]

You won't get a set of 35mm primes for nothing...
and from my knowledge the term primes only applies to 35mm motion picture terminology.

So instead I think you, me we, are looking for a set of 35mm still lenses.
Well if I was to do it cheap, a set of good old pentax lenses, next a set of Nikon lens, then a PL mount or adapter and rent true motion picture primes.

I think there are also gender bender's too for like Nikon to Canon and Nikon to PL.

Hello Redrock...come in ...over...

[goober542]

Prime just means they are no zoom lenses
so you can have prime still lenses as wel

[Erik Olson]

Perhaps RedRock was injured in a horrid ground glass accident?

;D

[goober542]

No he is just busy I think we will be hearing something quite soon.

[redrock]

Hey guys,

Sorry for the delay!

I finished machining the first set of rails. I'll have the base powder coated this weekend.

www.micro35.com/pics/new_rails_side.jpg

The base is adjustable for different cameras.

www.micro35.com/pics/rails_side.jpg
www.micro35.com/pics/rails_back.jpg
www.micro35.com/pics/adj_base.jpg

The nice thing about this setup is that you can use it without a micro35...

Here's the OCT19 mount that's going to be used on the first Pre-Assembled unit.
www.micro35.com/oct19/side.jpg

And here's a pic of the Mattebox mounted on the rails.
www.micro35.com/oct19/rail_matte.jpg


Almost there!!

[DEATHTOPRINT]

hrrrm... sounds like things are getting further. i guess the question of when the guides will be printed will never be answered. Principal photography is in the next month or so for a serious project of mine.... wish i could know if these guides would be shipping or not soon... ;(

this adapter would put the project on a new level. i just can't wait to get there.
jesus (you're more important than the J Man to me anyways). redrcock, help us please!

[Erik Olson]

Redrock is listening to input from future users and customers during prototyping - that's a very good thing. I'd prefer a delay to a half-hashed product that'll need modifications or upgrades to get it where it should have been on its initial release.

It is good to see the passthrough base and 15mm rods and accommodation for a mattebox using standard hardware.

Looks like that base might be a purchase item, while the rest of the kit will be DIY-able? Once you get into machining, it becomes harder to execute in the average garage!

This project is developing very nicely!

Cheers,

e

[redrock]

Death,
My partner is handling the guides. I believe they're being printed now.

The rails will be sold by themselves for anyone needing them.

The "Pre-Assmebled" micro35 orders will come with the rails!

Thanks for the feedback guys.

[Brett_Erskine]

If the rods are 15mm and have the industry standard spacing between them I'm interested in hearing how much for a complete rail system from you Redrock? Weight?

[redrock]

Hey Brett,
I sent them out for quotes yesterday. I'll let you know as soon as I get it back.

The rods are 15mm and cost 10x the price of a 9/16 rod which is .45mm less than 15mm... Really bites...

I'll keep you posted!

[Erik Olson]

Precision costs, baby! *Are those solid rod? *How about 15mm tube or third party rods? (http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cinemasupplies/cse18irrodon.html)

e

[BajotierraTV]

Here is a link where for the 15mm rods:
http://www.mcmaster.com/

They have all sorts of materials, including aluminum and stainless steel. From what I was able to see a 15mm stainless steel rod would be about $30 bucks (for a 40" one). We would probably find everything we need here.

[Ash-Housewares]

So, when is this guide going to arrive in my mailbox?-An interested and slightly impatient customer. ??? :P

[IncMedia]

Hey you gotta see this

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/35mm/video/The_Adapter_Movie_500kbs.mov

[Mike_E]

I'm getting it now, but your URL is weird, should be

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/35mm/video/The_Adapter_Movie_500kbs.mov

EDIT: HAHAHAHAHA. Thank you IncMedia, that is awesome. *;D ;D I've been following threads on this like all of us and it's so true! ;D I'm going to watch it again. ;D

EDIT EDIT: "Hey, you'd better get that workin' with the FX1 Motherfucker!"

[Kirk Gillock]

IncMedia - That was hilarious! ;D Who made that video? I like the "Optura" line.

Great stuff! Thanks.

[Mike_E]

It was the guy who is made the 35mm adapter for the XL2. http://www.holyzoo.com/content/35mm/

I love that video, because, as I already said, it's so true.

Oh P.K, I'm currently downloading all the movies you have uploaded into a folder called "The PK Collection" (cos I'm a freak haha ;D) And I absolutely love the "rainier" clip. Is that real, looks weird but really nice.

[Taylor Moore]

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/35mm/video/The_Adapter_Movie_500kbs.mov


Man, that was really, really funny....the shot of his final rig was worth the dial-up time to watch.

SO true, so true...how many spinning CD players and badly ground CD's must have been created, to not make a working device. :o

Horray for Redrock...I say patiently.

[Erik Olson]

I just peed my pants. Literally.

e

[JasonFox]

IncMedia - that was hilarious. Would've been even funnier if I didn't have a box of adapter parts sitting right next to me. :P

[Isaac_Brody]

;D

[Shadow]

Lol ;D That holyzoo man is just so funny.

[redrock]

Okay Guys,
I'm back. I've been busy finishing the first Pre-Assmebled unit. Check it out:

www.micro35.com/CRW_6737.jpg

more pics here:
www.micro35.com/lomo.htm

Guide update:
I've got the shipping materials ready to go, just waiting on the guides to arrive.

redrock

[NickMilo]

What kind of follow focus is that?

[taubkin]

Yeah, are the mattebox and follow focus your creations as well?

And do you have a price yet?

[BajotierraTV]

One word... BRAVO!

[amoildani]

i believe he mentioned the mattebox is a Formatt 500....

that is an amazing looking system, what exactly is on that, like the lenses and things.

Id buy it just for the look

[Erik Olson]

Am I the only one getting an error page?

:'(

[redrock]

The matte box is Chroziel. The follow focus is JBK. The lens and mount are LOMO. (Russian).

The glass is very fast. Probably a stop or two at the most!

[smkoch]

Hey Redrock is that the final setup? looks sweet! are we going to see some well lite and laid out shot's as sample's from your final setup soon?

[embers.]

It's so close, i can't wait.

[Erik Olson]

That is one nice looking rig! How about some footage and a price for parts and the guide?

e

[NickMilo]

When are you gonna post the footage that you got when you lent it out for other people to make muisc vid's and shorts?

[gritsngumbo]

Awsome setup. Any idea what the whole package will go for? Pre-assembled and parts to assemble? Thanks.

[amoildani]

didnt he say, $250 for the parts, and $495 for pre-assembled?

or is that changed now?

[dmitriandsnow]

That video was a piece of work only select few can understand. My friend was clueless... Very very funny! Thank you!

[redrock]

Carlos, you are correct. I'm still holding to those prices.

It looks like I'll be offering the standalone rail setup for $250 for everyone building their own adapter. I'll be posting the link soon.

[embers.]

does the 500 for the pre-assembled still include the rail system?

[filmfan222]

this might have been answered but is there anyway to get 16:9 with this monstrous adapter? is the AG 7200 fit on this beast anywhere....or am i just gonna have use of primes at 4:3

[redrock]

Embers, Yep.

Filmfan, I'll have to check that out.

[Barry_Green]

The anamorphic adapter may mount to it, but it's extremely doubtful that it would function at all. Its optical design seems to be optimized for a focal length of around 35mm, and it gets *really* pushed to its limits at 45mm... I don't think it'd be functional at all at longer focal lengths.

[mastermind]

hey redrock, how'd you get the FF unit to work on the lens. Do these lomo lenses have focus gears? Because i would love to attach a follow focus unit but don't know how to pull it off with canon or nikon lenses. if i can go with the lomo lenses then that would be the route for me.

[redrock]

They have gears. You can find them pretty cheap on ebay. Some of them come with the gears.

[mr._guiyotinne]

Redrock are you still thinking on making a follow focus? And what about the program to flipp the image and save to laptop? I´m eager to use it!

i just forgot to ask you if there is a big light stops loss, cos i´m gonna use some 2.8 lens nearly all the time...

[DEATHTOPRINT]

im pretty sure the image already gets flipped w/ redrocks design. He's ten steps years of you if that's what you're talking about.

are you talking about him developing a software program?

[mr._guiyotinne]

ask him ;D

[mgalvan]

Hi,

Would this adapter work for the XL2?

Thanks,

[bvalente]

any chance there is a version that works on 12mm rails, so I can use my century matte box?

[Policar]

I'm hearing more and more good things about using wax instead of ground glass. Much finer grain (virtually no grain) and translucent in much the same way apparently. I don't know if this would be possible, but it might be worth trying.

[bvalente]

As a DVX user I am blessed and cursed - blessed with a great camera, cursed that I know very little of 35mm lenses.

I love the results of the mini35, but don't have any idea where to start for selecting a lens. I would appreciate hearing some recommendations on specific 35mm lenses (used or new is fine) that would make an excellent first choice. Thanks

[bvalente]

Sorry - Let me clarify that. I have read all the previous posts re: lenses, and it gives me something to go on.

It seems like I need to decide on a mount first. Example: I saw a PL-35mm mount adapter on eBay. Should I go PL? It also sounds like the 35mm lens route is about getting a set of lenses rather than a multi-purposes 1 or 2 lenses. Sorry to sound dense, but I don't have photography background (perhaps there are others in my boat as well). Thanks

[goober542]

My knowledge is a bit limited but I am been doing a fair amount of research lately so I will try to give a decent answer.

From what I can tell pl mount could be difficult to deal with and harder to find lenses in a resonable price range. You could end up spending more money on lenses than the mounts. On the up side you can find some faster lenses within this mount compared to the speed of still photo lenses (by speed I mean the f stop/exposure ). Those lenses will run you a good bit of money though. Also these lenses will have the standard gear ratio so you can add a follow focus without any hassle, which is a plus.

With still camera lenses you are still getting the same depth of field unless you have the faster lenses that are wide open at a faster setting than the still lenses. You can still get primes within still photo lenses and you will get a slightly sharper image from a prime as well as they tend to be faster lenses. A large plus to these lenses is that you can build a set of primes up for under a hundred dollars. I built my kit up for around 50 dollars because I got extrememly lucky.

If you go the still photo route I think so far the easiest lenses to mount to the micro are the canon eos lenses, I went the way of older fd mounts but that is just a slight mod on the mount.

I would venture to say you should get a 50mm. That is not the type of lense but the field of view, the higher the number the smaller the field of view or FOV. A 50mm sees ruffly the FOV of the human eye, and has a pretty shallow depth of field.

A 28mm is a good wide angle with a minimal amount of barrell distortion; if any. With the wider lenses of course you get a deep DOF.

With lenses like 135mm you can throw focus all over the place because they are so shallow. I would try to get a 135 with a speed of 2.8 if you can.

really if you are using this to get the shallow look, then get the fastest lenses you can. Who would have thought somone would venture to say they want to look shallow. Don't everyone laugh at once.

[bvalente]

Hey that's definitely a start for what I need! A couple of clarifications -

1. by "fast lens" you mean lower fstops (say 1.8f)?

2. 135mm lens - they are $70 or $300 on eBay. a 135mm is $70, and a 25-135mm is $300. Which type should I consider? I am getting the impression that the preferred approach is more about fixed focal length lenses.

3. FD mount - Several of these lenses advertise an FD mount. I don't know a hoot about all these mounts, but I see FD, HD, EOS, PL. Should I be selecting for a specific mount (given the PL input from above) or should I just simply be aware of the type of mount I am getting? If I purchase an FD mount, does that mean I am officially "only FD" or is it more of a mix-and-match scenario? Thanks - great help to me (maybe to other non-35mmers too :-p )

[Shaw]

Yep, fast would be a lower f#. F1.8 is generally considered to be rather fast. There are some f1.2 etc lenses out there but these are generally really expensive.

The downside of going full open is that the lens tends to have it's worst performance in that state. It's certainly not ideal. Also, I think if we want a true 35mm look then an extreme DOF, like a f1.8 wide open would give, would be far too overbearing. Shallow DOF is used creatively in 35mm film it isn't always f1.8 shallow (in fact hardly ever).

Generally speaking prime lenses (set focal lengths) are sharper and faster than zoom lenses. With these adapters and a standard definition camera you won't notice a difference unless you use really bad glass. Of course, zooms are also slower which means you will need more light.

I don't know much about the canon mounts but nearly all Nikon lenses ever manufactured can fit the same mount. This is great when you need a wide selection of lenses that are cheap, high quality, and compatible.

[bvalente]

ah - the picture becomes more clear. So Prime lenses are fixed length.

It sounds like you are advocating for faster lenses, but perhaps f1.8 is too fast? What would be the ideal? f2-ish.

Regarding the nikon lenses, what type of mount do they use, or is it just "nikon mount"?

Thanks a lot

[goober542]

im not sure the type of mount that a nikon has but I use a 1.8 for my 50mm but I like things shallow.

[Erik Olson]

What mount do the Lomo lenses take? I'm embarrased to say that I've not used their lenses. I'm was going Nikon as the default mount for my Micro35, but now wonder if RedRock is suggesting Lomo for price / performance / availability reasons?

I very much want the option of fitting an Optex PL mount to the M35 as well, though I'll only rent the Zeiss or Arri PL glass when someone is paying me to achieve something a decent piece of 35mm SLR glass couldn't do itself.

I think the human field of view is closer to 52 - 55mm for what it's worth. I consistenly fall back on my Minolta-Rokkor 58mm 1:1.4 glass for its incredible resolving quality and DOF, but it is always just a tad too long!

e

[Shaw]

Oh, buying an f1.8 lens would be perfectly fine. You can adjust the iris to control this usually up to around f22 so an f1.8 would give you the most options (f1.8 being the largest aperture the lens is capable of achieving). You could pick and choose. Definitely go with the fastest lens you can afford. It will give you the most flexibility.

Honestly, on a standard defiition camera, I don't think you would notice the difference between, say, a Nikon lens and an Arri or Zeiss. Perhaps with regard to chromatic aberration (not overly likely) but almost certainly not in sharpness. Contrast would probably be a bit better with a Zeiss lens. I think the real benefit of using cinema lenses (on standard def) is the ability to use a follow focus. It would be interesting to see how these adapters would fare on a high definition camera.

[BajotierraTV]

I have personally used a mini35 with nikon lenses. The 50mm 1.4f lens looked the best, so I would say the faster the lens the better especially because you loose f-stops with these adapters, (at least 2 f-stops with the mini35).

Based on my personal experience with the mini35, I would get nikon lenses for the micro35.

[bvalente]

so just to make sure I'm on the same page, I looked up a "Nikon Nikkor 50mm 1:1.4 lens 5467427 Manual Focus" on eBay and it was running about $85. Are we talking the same lens here? This kind of pricing would sure be welcome compared to nearly $1k for canon XL lenses :)

[Policar]

It's never so simple as that. Lens choice is a complex processes and has a lot to do with the artistic style of the cinematography/director.

50mm is considered the "normal" focal length (closest to that of the human eye) so it's the best lens to start with. 200mm is the pretty extreme side of telephoto, and 25mm or so is wide angle, good for landscapes. That nikon lens is pretty nice, but Canon's f1.4 50mm lens is about as good, too. Both Canon and Nikon have an excellent choice of mid-range lenses, but since most do not have manual aperature adjustment, older manual lenses from ebay are often the best choices if you want good, cheap, glass.

As for the best aperature, the wider open, the shallower the DOF (also, telephoto lenses give very shallow DOF but compress space.) For some shots, a blurred background can hide distracting details. For other shots, you'll want everything in focus to show what's going on in multiple planes. Different apertures are good for different shots. Citizen Kane, for instance, was shot all stopped down quite far to get a wide DOF and it looks AMAZING.

The same goes for focal length. John Woo shoots only extreme wide angle and extreme telephoto for the most part because they distort space is visually striking ways. Citizen Kane was almost entirely wide angle lenses to maximize DOF, except for close ups (I'd assume) since wide angle lenses distort everything pretty badly. Zoom lenses can also "crush" space, meaning that a character running towards the camera as filmed with a 200mm lens will appear to move forward much more slowly. Combined with slow motion, this can give a really nice look. But if you want a location to look larger, a wide angle lens helps.

Really, there are no "best lenses" to use for any situation. Work with the mis-en-scene, see what needs to be in focus, see what you might want to keep out of focus, then see what lenses and lighting set ups will work. From there, make artistic decisions.

I'd probably look on ebay for three cheap manual primes: one 25mm or so, one 50mm, one 200mm. Primes are nice since they usually have sharper images, are cheaper, and their apertures open wider. Unless you need to zoom during a shot, of course, but no one likes that.

[Erik Olson]

A fast 200mm prime glass is going to come in at at least f= 1:3.0 plus a minimum of 1-1/2 stops for the DOF converter.

Shooting at a 5.6 outside isn't the end of the world, but that's a good deal of light to achieve indoors!

e

[Policar]

If you're using 500-1000 watt lights you should be able to shoot at f5.6 no problem, plus, I wouldn't personally use a 200mm lens indoors except very occasionally and f1.4 50mm lenses aren't too hard to come by, but you're right that a 35mm adapter would make any low-light shooting nearly impossible....plus, I'm pretty terrible with cinematography so I always get hideous cast shadows when I use strong lights.

[Erik Olson]

;D

[Shaw]

Then again, we're dealing with a film style adapter so I suspect the setup would be very filmish - lots of setup light.

[bvalente]

policar - understood and I agree. Even a basic understanding is helpful. Like others here I have recognized that shooting the filmic style on DV (read: not transfer to film, but to get the film look, at least that's how I'm approaching things) does require a shallow DOF for certain applications. So a manual 50mm as a starting point is really helpful feedback. I realize a lot depends on style, desired effect, etc. but it's good to have somewhere to start!

Cheers

[Coco Bermudez]

I have absolutely zero understanding about 35mm lenses, primes, etc. etc. yet I have been experimenting with making my own static grain 35mm lens adapter. I am pretty satisfied woth the results I am getting. Sure the image is not clear and clean but the "look" but amazing. i am learning more and more about.

My suggestion is to get out there and experiment. It will open a whole new world to you.

You can follow the thread titled: "35mm Enormous Apparatus / EASY AS HELL!?!?!" found at the HARDWARE section in DVXuser.com. There is a couple of us who are toying with this little adapter.


If you want to check out my experiments results go to:

http://moviegroovy.com/35mmadaptervideo.html

or you can check out more videos at:

http://moviegroovy.com/MovieLinks.html

by the way i am using an old 1969 50mm lens..nothing fancy...just a chinon lens

im out

[bvalente]

Well I fished around eBay for a bit and I found an f1.4 50mm nikon for about $65. One suggestion I have (again - this is for dvx-centric people like me) is to look at manual focus lenses, which tend to carry the primes. example: Cameras & Photo > Lenses & Accessories > Lenses > For 35mm SLR > To fit Nikon > Manual Focus

[bvalente]

[ as you can tell I have insomnia thinking about this and rehasing the sample clips!]

This is such a fantastic development - 24p, anamorphic lens, and now truly cinematic DOF.

But how do we get back to 16:9? If it doesn't work with the anamorphic lens (then again, what DOES work with that lens) how can we produce high quality 16:9 output? How do folks think about this?

I noticed redrock's sample clips are 16:9. Are we back to squeeze mode?

[Double_IT]

Ok so its now March... any updates? Also can a few things be clarified - the 'rails' are what attach the 35 unit to the camera? And these are something that we can not build, but need to buy fom you and they cost $250?? Or have i totally missed something. Also, I dont know much at all about lens, but are most stil camera lens zoom? I hate zooming on video, but how else are we to focus without zooming in to focus on the subject then zooming out/framing? I am trying to weigh the pros and cons to see if it makes sense to use this unit. Finally, if we are to buy this guide for $45 how much money do we need to spend to get a working unit? Assuming we have a lens already, and thats it. No rails our mounts or anything. Thanks, cant wait for this. I just spent 30 minutes reading all 22 pages of this.

Edit - First on page 23!!

[bvalente]

As I understand it, the preassembled kit is targeted at $495. It does require rails to attach (the whole setup is getting pretty heavy so that makes sense), and I get the impression the rails that are provided are actually pretty cheap. you don't require zoom lenses, you can focus using, well, the focus ring, and from what redrock says most of the cost in $495 is labor, not parts. However, you can always spend thousands on the mini35 if you don't like these answers! ;)

[taubkin]

Ok so its now March... any updates? I hate zooming on video, but how else are we to focus without zooming in to focus on the subject then zooming out/framing?

You can open up the iris and check focus by eye or you could measure the distance from the subject, just as everybody does. Film was invented far before the zoom lenses...

[DEATHTOPRINT]

YEAH Double_IT, IT IS MARCH. any news on the guides? It's been over a month since the 500 guides went to the printer. I've got some important stuff coming up I wanted to use the adapter with... but, I dont know how long this will be. Any dates for the guides? cos... I'm dying here. wait. im dead.

[Shaw]

But how do we get back to 16:9? If it doesn't work with the anamorphic lens (then again, what DOES work with that lens) how can we produce high quality 16:9 output? How do folks think about this?

For the moment, yes, squeeze or crop in post are your only options. This will lower your resolution significantly though giving you only about 250 discernable lines of resolution.

I've been working on and off on an anamorphic attachment for these 35mm adapters. Still no date on when it will be finished (I want to make sure everything works perfectly) but if there is enough interest I've thought about making and selling some. The great thing is you can get any aspect ratio you want when you design the lens yourself :D

[bvalente]

Hey Shaw - if you're making then I'm buying. That's been one of the biggest frustrations with the anamorphic lens: It doesnt work with anything else. Not that I don't appreciate the reasons why, but no filters, no matte box (unless I want to drop $1500 for the chrosziel)...

[goober542]

i am in

[bvalente]

Hey shaw - is the idea that this anamorphic adapter sits in front of, behind, or instead of teh 35mm lens?

[goober542]

I think the word is that the new GG and prime lens have no res loss. This is an exciting thing to hear, especiall if this ana thing gets going for the mount.

(r)Yan

[bvalente]

so when you say "the new GG and prime lens have no res loss" you mean "the new rev of micro35 including new GG" plus the prime lens of your choice.... right? (vs. a specific prime lens)

[goober542]

Yeh theoretically but don't quote me. But It should be no loss.

[Shaw]

bvalente: The current design will sit between the 35mm lens and the body of the camera/35mm adapter.

Do you mean inside the 35mm adapter? This could be done but since I do not have access to the production line of these adapters it's something I really don't want to attempt. An attachment that would go in front of the lens could work but it has many more downsides than a rear mounted version. The most problematic being that you would need a separate adapter for every diameter 35mm lens you had (not practical of course!).

There are two ways to appraoch this design and I am currently weighing their benefits and down sides. One would be short but it would increase the focal length of your lens (not good). The other would be longer but would keep the focal length the same. The hard part is making the adapter as small as possible while still retaining good image quality and while maintaining the original focal length. That's the area I'm working on at the moment.

Goober: Did redrock say the new one would have no res loss? I've been away for a while so I may have missed it. I think the tests he has on his site are using the new GG and we're seeing about a 100line loss in res.

[bvalente]

shaw - no, I wasn't advocating inside the 35mm. I think behind is the right approach, since it would allow for any type of lens. So do I take it correctly that you have a working prototype you are testing? I'm curious if you are losing f stops and/or res loss from this adapter. Seems to be the final piece in all this. Cheers

[goober542]

Last word I had from him is that he did some test with primes and had a broadcast production monitor to check the res charts on and he said he was resolving full resolution

[bvalente]

Is that full resolution on anamorphic adapter or full resolution on latest micro35?

[Shaw]

Goober: Interesting. I look forward to hearing from James on this and seeing the results!

bvalente: That would be in reference to the new micro35 GG :). I'm at an interesting stage actually. I have no operational model at the moment. I have been designing the lens with some professional lens design software (takes out a lot of the costly experimenting). Basically I've been "testing" different setups and analyzing the software's response. It gives information on the level of distortion, rough light loss, chromatic aberration etc. All I have to do is settle on a final design :). I'm trying to incorporate as much as possible for the lowest cost. Ideally the adapter will be switchable between 16:9 and 2.35 when complete.

[bvalente]

sounds great - is there a target price range for which you are aiming? personally I don't have a need for switchable. For all the effort in this effort, I'm personally gunning for the magic troika - 24p, 16:9, and shallow DOF.

[Shaw]

Don't know - just trying for the cheapest possible. If it looks like the switchable feature will cost a bit more then I won't go with it. If I can design it correctly though it shouldn't be much more expensive than a static type (if at all). Just a matter of adding an adjustment ring.

[Mike_E]

I, personally, would prefer switchable because I'm a fan of the ol' cinemascope.

[goober542]

you get this thing working before summer I will be glad to test it on this feature I am directing this summer. I am sure my DP would love you.

[DEATHTOPRINT]

im shooting a short film in about 2 weeks. i'd test it out too. that is... if you're looking for testers.

[mastermind]

i'd definately LOVE 2.35:1 anamorphic

[Policar]

I, for one, have no interest in 2.35:1 in an adapter and I think it's a waste of money if it makes the product cost a single cent more.

DVDs support native 16:9 so it's useful to have the extra res for playback on HDTVs. It's nice for film out, too (although this is an issue for just about no one, seeing as using a mini-35 is bad, bad news for film out due to resolution loss, grainiess, etc.)

DVDs support 2.35:1 only through letterboxed 16:9 anamorphic. Thus....the extra res won't help you when you make a DVD. In fact, the conversion process will be a pain. And I don't think too many film transfer houses deal with 720X480 stretched to 2.35:1 and the results would look pretty awful since the resolution would be so incredibly low horizontally. So it's useless for DVDs and film-out. Plus, there's no glass which does that conversion either. Scope stretches by a ratio of 2:1. The ONLY use would be transfer to HD-DVDs and not only is that a long, long, way off, but I doubt the minor resolution benefits would outweight the trouble and cost of such expensive custom glass.

Plenty of programs edit in 16:9 (final cut pro, etc. etc.) but there is no program which edits scope NTSC. It just seems like a completely ridiculous idea to me.

[bvalente]

I WISH I had a need for cinescope! But for now I will content myself with 16:9

[gritsngumbo]

Redrock Sighting?? Anyone see or heard from? Would like to know what's going on.

[Shaw]

You certainly have a point Policar. I'm not sure it would be *useless* for film out. I think it would be of benefit in digital projection and/or film. I've seen deinterlaced video that was shot with an anamorphic projector lens (over the front of the video camera) that looked rather decent. I'd imagine the DVX could do an even greater job.

An example can be seen here:
http://owyheesound.com/owyheesound_production/current_projects/web_hosted_cinema/Photographing_Zombies/photographing_zombies.html

Not the best way to judge due to compression and interlacing but not too bad either.

A good point about the mini35 and film out though. I'd need to run some tests myself just to see how bad things would get and whether it would justify the research into 2.35.

I'm not sure what you mean by there is no glass which stretches by that ratio. I'm going to have to have custom glass made anyway to get the 16:9 aspect ratio correct with the least amount of distortion/aberration anyway. Actually to get cinemascope with a 4:3 camera you would need a magnification factor of about 1.66x. With a 2x expansion you would end up with a 2.66:1 aspect ratio (given the 4:3 nature of the CCDs). So that helps with the resolution problem a little bit. In fact, the video I mentioned that was shot with an anamorphic projector lens had a full 2x squeeze (thus a 2.66:1 ratio) and it looked decent.

Also, it may have a benefit for DVD. A small one perhaps. If you downres your footage with a decent scaler you should be able to eleminate a few digital artifacts from the compression process (assuming you don't add just as many from the downres. You would need a decent downscaler as mentioned).

Of course, as you mention, editing becomes a problem but it's not impossible. Such an adapter would not be of much (if any) use in making SD DVDs - quite right. For projection though it could be of use. Whether this justifies the expense is debateable. I'ts something I've certainly pondered. As I mentioned before, I'm going to see what the expense would be to implement it. If it's a matter of 2$ for a ring to move a lens element back and forth then I think I'll go for it on the outside chance that it proves useful.

In any case I'm doing the project because I'm interested in it. I'm not concerned with research and development costs as I'm not out to make money. Heck, I'll provide the plans free (when available) to anyone who wants them. Saves me some trouble! I'm not in it to make money - I'm just in it for my own curiosities sake. If my curiosity just so happens to help others well then I'll be happy :).

[bvalente]

I'm in it for the interest as well - if I can test anything let me know. Of course, you'll have to wait until I get my micro35!! :D

[smkoch]

I'm just hoping this thing ends up getting released and isn't another (could have been great) idea, no offense to anyone but doesn't it get tiring waiting around hoping for all of these great ideas' that just seem to be around the next corner.

[goober542]

I think you should leave it at 16:9 I think that would make your life and incredible amount easier, as well as I don't see the need for all the hassel in post to shoot cinescope. Are you planning on making this lens for the micro35 or a mini 35 design of your own. I am not quite sure how this would mount to the micro35?

I really would not count this micro out as far as film outs go, I am not one hundred percent sure on this but I hear good things. Don't get discouraged I am sure you guys will hear something soon.

(r)

[goober542]

Oh if you have not ordered the guide yet I would pick it up. It should be coming around soon, and for as cheap as you should be able to build this I think its worth the money.

[bvalente]

well lay it on us - we're ready! ;)

[DEATHTOPRINT]

bvalente, I'll be the first one to "no shit" that last request.

[Erik Olson]

Thinking out loud on the anamorphic questions:

Is there a reason you couldn't use standard anamorphic prime and variable lenses with a Micro/Mini35 with a PL mount? If the image is being focused onto the GG, doesn't it stand to reason that you could shoot spherical or anamorphic?

Would the resulting GG image be squeezed smaller than what the passive imager is focused on? What focal length is the DVX set to against the GG? If it is set at one end of its range - presumably telephoto - then perhaps the focal length could be altered and refocused for use with anamorphic glass?

Seems to me that there is more flexibility and useful range in a built-for-purpose piece of anamorphic glass than what you get in an aftermarket adapter?

e

[bvalente]

With the caveat that I assume pl-mount anamorphic lenses are big $$, for me it defeats the purpose of the micro35. I am assuming the micro comes in around $495 (I don't feel confident I can build my own :o), so plus a $70 35mm lens and (I'm guessing here) a $300 anamorphic adapter, I'm in business. Of course, I hope someone will prove me wrong on the cost assumptions...

[bmcneil2k]

where can u purchase the micro35 kit

[bvalente]

check out www.micro35.com - I don't think they are taking orders for the product yet but you can pre-order the guide

[Shaw]

overland: You could certainly use anamorphic primes on a mini35 type setup. There are, however, several problems that arise:

1) None are 16:9
2) The compression of 35mm anamorphic primes is 2x. This will give a 2.66:1 anamorphic image - quite a bit more stretched than cinemascope.
3) Cost
4) DOF issues. Since most people adopt these adapters for the DOF of 35mm film using a real anamorphic prime will limit your ability to choose aperture, shutter speed etc (for the same reasons as the Panasonic anamorphic adapter).

Not many films are actually shot anamorphic (via anamorphic primes that is) these days. Most everthing is done on super35. Partly due to cost and partly due to the better spherical lenses (and wider range) that you can get. Using a true anamorphic prime would give a look that, while absolutely a 35mm look, wouldn't be something we are used to seeing and to a degree defeats the purpose of the adapter.


I'm just hoping this thing ends up getting released and isn't another (could have been great) idea

Can't tell if this was meant in relation to the micro35 or my anamorphic idea. Again, I have no real estimate as to when I will finish. This is first and foremost an experiment for my interest. If I end up making some to sell (there seems to be some interest at least and it is likely) this will be a secondary concern. My point? This isn't being designed first and foremost as a commercial product.

[quote[Are you planning on making this lens for the micro35 or a mini 35 design of your own. I am not quite sure how this would mount to the micro35? [/quote]

It will work with any 35mm adapter you can get your hands on (including but not limited to Redrocks and the P&S Mini35). The device will sit right behind the 35mm lens and in front of the body. You could even use the adapter for still photography given that you use the same mount. Each end of the device will be customized with a 35mm mount of ones choosing so it will be as simple as snapping it on and off. Just as easy as changing a lens.

The only downside to this is that the adapter could only work with one type of 35mm mount. I'm looking at making the device with interchangable mounting pieces (attached with screws). This way all one would need do is acquire a different mounting set rather than an entirely new adapter for use on a different lens mount.

[bvalente]

I sure wish we'd hear from redrock! (hint hint)

[fomoDVXpal]

I just bought myself some 35mm primes. here are the ad' details:

Canon FD MF Lenses
Canon 200mm f4
Canon 100mm f2.8
Vivitar 25mm f2 Wide Angle
2 x CFE Teleplus MC7

all I need now is a 50mm. looking to buy the Canon EOS EF 50mm f/1.8 II.

does anyone know if the EOS thread is the same as the older FD?

[goober542]

I would stick with one mount type it will be difficult to make different mounts, you would just about have to make 2 seperate front plates for the adapter.

[bvalente]

fomo: I'm curious on why you selected the lenses you did. on the 50mm I found a lot of good 50mm 1.4 on eBay for around $60 USD. Cheers

[jaredalv]

Anyone besides me wondering if they should have just flushed their $45 down the toilet so at least there wouldn't be the disappointment from being taken in a scam?

Hope I'm wrong,
Jared

[bvalente]

Not me - I think there needs to be a fair amount of patience in this process. I am hopeful to see something soon (like all of us, I suspect) but I see this as cutting edge stuff. I always know the mini35 is a web site away if I'm really in need, though there are only a few thousand reasons why I'm not going down that path right now! :P

[goober542]

Trust me you have not been taken in a scam, I know you have no reason to believe me but you have not.

bvalente the reason I went with FD lenses is that I had read that most of the lenses made for fd mount camera's were really sharp lenses especially the canon 50mm. So I went with those primes to keep res up. Once you see how you have to build the mount for FD's I think you will understand why it might be a good idea to use only one mount, but this is an outside perspective you may want ask redrock about the details.

[redrock]

Hey guys,
Sorry for the delay in writing. I've been working my *ss of getting these things ready for production. Things are moving along GREAT!

The guides are coming! Don't give up! And for the big delay, I'm sending everyone that ordered/orders the guide a free GG and micro35 sticker!

As I mentioned above, The Micro35 Project is moving along very fast. It looks like there will be an Indie special coming up on some channel (don't know yet) that will highlight the micro35. There was also a writeup in Studio Monthly about the micro35 as well!

I just received some photos of the Micro35 being used by my buddies over at lunaticfringepictures.com. This is from a feature called "The Ancient". It is produced by Necroscopic Unlimited (www.spellcaster.addr.com) in association with American Movie Works.

www.micro35.com/oct19/micro35meter1.jpg
www.micro35.com/oct19/micro35_tim.jpg

Again, sorry about the delay, and THANK YOU Goober542 for covering for me while I'm running across the globe on business.

Thanks again guys!!

Micro35 is on the move!!!!

redrock

[mgalvan]

I just ordered your guide. Here's to hoping it comes sometime soon ;)



The guides are coming! Don't give up! And for the big delay, I'm sending everyone that ordered/orders the guide a free GG and micro35 sticker!



I'll remember this ;D

[Coco Bermudez]

a free GG? for real....Is this the clear cd plastic or a circular filter glass?

[Coco Bermudez]

pictures looks good...what a monster of a set-up. Something like that would sure impress any client of mine. I am confused though. When the product is ready for sale...what can you purchase from redrock?

Does the micro35 come with matte box, follow focus and all the other goodies...can you purchase it all from him?

confused and salivating

[Shaw]

I think he means the laser etched CD type discs.

[Shaw]

I have a question as well:

What's the highest shutter speed you have tested the device with? I like shooting with 1/250 on some occasions - sometimes more for effect.

Super8: I think, if you order a fully constructed version, it comes with the device itself and the support rods.

[bvalente]

super8 - the micro35 would not come with matte box or follow focus. If you look at the pics on micro35.com there is one or two pics that show just the micro35 adapter. I can't speark for Redrock, but he suggested he would consider building a follow focus as a... uh.. .follow-on project ;)

[reservoir]

Maybe we should start an R & D Fund via paypal for the new *Redrock Follow Focus System*. I'm sure it would be a smash hit for around 500 dollars. Hell less than 1000 even!! Seriously...let's take up a collection!! ~reservoir~

[bvalente]

hey - if someone tells me the specs and rough delivery timeframe, I'll place a pre-order!

[Shaw]

Your post made me just go look some stuff up on the net regarding making a Follow Focus. I'm discovering that it's painfully simple (after thinking about ways to construct the mechanism)... I'm going to try some experiments when I have some spare time.

[reservoir]

Let me know who to make the check out to. ~reservoir~ ::)

[Shaw]

Oh, I'm not even remotely planning on selling that sort of thing! Don't get me wrong! I was just surprised at how easy the project really is once I sat down and started looking at parts etc. Honestly though, the mechanism really isn't all that complex. Just a couple of gears, a motor and a controller board (which can either be purchased or made by hand).

It's amazing that they can get away with charging so much for these simple little things!

[fomoDVXpal]

bvalente,

the reason i haven't bought a 50mm lens is that i haven't found one! that may sound weird but it's true. there have been some Nikons floating around but the Canon deal i got was too cheap (and good) to refuse.

i definitely want a fast 50mm as it'll be the main lens of use.

...i could always do an international order ::)


p.s if it sounds like i got no clue on these matters then it's probably true. i rely on you guys for info.

[bvalente]

shwaw - tell me what you found out about follow focus - I'd love to hear some details on how it works. Also, perhaps someone can lay out a primer on lens mounts. I haven't the foggiest (other than PL= cinema lenses) what they all are or what are the implications of going with x or y type of mount.

[Erik Olson]

Redrock,

Can you give us a timeline for - even if you have to error on the side of delay:

Parts + Guide

Guide + Fancy Sticker and Free GG ;)

Fully Assembled Kits

Cheers,

e

[Erik Olson]

Bump for my man RedRock...

[redrock]

Micro35 Update:

After talking with several printing shops out there (including kinko's), this wait has been totally obsurd. (It didn't take another print shop to tell me that by the way..) I'm pulling the guides from my "friend's" place and I'm sending them over to the place that prints our manuals from my day job. I'm being guaranteed three days. The stickers and new GGs should roll in about that time too.

I've got 25 beta sets of rods (w/base) being produced from my outsource company. This should allow me to test the production line and also fill some orders I've got on hold.

I've got a XL2 & Z1U coming in to get fitted for micro35s. That should add two more "micro35 certified" cameras.

I'll keep you posted!

[SloMocean]

Sounds like things are coming along. I'm losing sleep over the [hopeful] ability to use DOF on my upcoming feature. Any idea if the kits might be available by May, or might it take awhile longer?

Patiently [sorta] waiting ...

Redrock, you are the man

dvx + G5 + redrock35 = oh mama

[bena]

in case anyone cares.. check out this silliness : http://www.eidomedia.com/hdv/

I don't think you would gain any DOF by doing this mod, correct me if I'm wrong thou.

I really hope the New Dvx200 supports mpg 4 adc, cause mpg 2 sux so bad.

[Nick Adams]

it's amazing what people will do

[goober542]

The project is moving along quite well I think you all well be seeing someting soon, and trust me your going to like it

(r)yan

[jaredalv]

What's the status on the manual/overall project?

[goober542]

Manuals should be coming out withing the next week or so if I am not mistaken. The guides are very detailed and whoudl be very helpful to all of you all. I don't think there is anyway you will be disappointed.

(r)yan

[cjoyce]

just finished this whole thread............ Damn!

and $50 lighter.

Do you get a member upgrade too?


cj

[taubkin]

I have a question.

Despite of all my thrill with the project, and my high expectations, I have to ask. If, I buy a Micro35 with, say a nikon mount, and want to do a project with rental lenses, so I get a Zeiss prime kit, do I have to have a different adaptor, or I can just swich the lens mount? I remember working in a production company that had an Arri III and it had differend mount plates, both for Nikon and Zeiss, so the cinematographer could use whatever kit he wanted.

[DEATHTOPRINT]

UM... ANY IDEA OF WHEN THE GUIDES WILL BE SHIPPING? I HEARD SOMETHING ABOUT SWITCHING PRINTERS, BUT NOTHING AFTER THAT... sorry, just can't wait ...

thanks.

[Shawn Murphy]

Hmm, I'm the last person in the world to lose faith, but setting aside paranoid ideas of the scandalous sort, perhaps Redrock met up unexpectedly with a bus in the middle of the street or perhaps he's come down with that Christopher Nolan 'Memento' condition, let's just hope he starts tattooing 'MICRO35' on his chest so he'll see it in a mirror and perhaps figure out what all those contraptions are lying around his house! ;-)

[jaredalv]

See I asked about this a few weeks ago and people told me I was being paranoid. Seems that my paranoia is spreading...

Sincerely Suckered,
Jared

[taubkin]

There is still a lot of movement in DVInfo's forum (wich is now the official micro35 forum...) I'm now convinced it's for real. But it's late, nonetheless...

[Shawn Murphy]

Indeed, I forgot that's even what the micro35.com website mentions: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37830&highlight=micro35

Though apparently you'll still have to exercise patience. And although I truly appreciate the amount of work this takes, setting expectations appropriately does wonders for keeping the level of frustration down, no different than working on any project with a customer, set realistic expectations, create a realistic schedule, add PADDING to the delivery date, and everyone is happy when you deliver early!

March 3rd posting in dvinfo:

"The guides should be going out next week"

Three weeks later I don't think I see anything about the status of the guides, maybe they actually shipped. I'd order one but I don't want to get my expectations (undies) in a bunch! ;-)

Ciao4now

[Nick Adams]

EDIT: I seem to be getting the wrong message across in my postings, some people here really need to pull the stick out of there asses, and I need to remember the smilley's.. :thumbsup:
Hopefull his product comes threw.......

[Shawn Murphy]

Apparently James (Redrock) is actually updating and posting updates/info over at dvinfo, but you have to search through other threads (very odd that they would allow splinter threads for updates on the product..)

From March 23rd:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41000&highlight=micro35

"Daniel,

I'll be back on Thursday afternoon and will get back in the driver's seat the minute my plane lands. So hang in there. A lot of things will start to roll pretty quickly of the next couple of weeks.

The GGs were ready as of Friday of last week. I wanted to personally verify their accuracy before unloading them to everyone. So once I arrive and inspect the ggs, the guides will begin to ship!

I appreciate your patience everyone!

One other thing, everyone that ordered a guide or orders a unit, you will gain access to the member's section of this forum. Here you'll be able to share building experiences with everyone building or have built the micro35 adapter. You will receive an email once the guide has shipped with more information on this member's forum.

Thanks again everyone!

james
www.micro35.com"

[safarijoe]

The stills and footage are beautiful. I want one NOW!!! Let me know when you get a price.

[Daniel Skubal]

James is a busy guy, cut him some slack. I've been browsing dvxuser for a week or so and there's a lot to learn here... but this is the only forum that I have seen get mad at James for not shipping the guides. I'm just as anxious as you to get my hands on the guide but I've emailed him and talked to him on several different forums. He's not trying to rip you guys off. I know I am a new guy in this forum, but I want to say that Nick's graphic is a bit out of hand.

A lot of you have questions about pricing, go to his website and you can get all of the info. 45$ for the guide, 250$ for the guide and prefabricated parts, 495$ for the guide and a premade rig.

Be patient, I have a feeling you'll all be getting some packages in a week or so.

[Shawn Murphy]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one am definitely not questioning James's integrity, perhaps his ability to manage expectations effectively (but that's what program/project managers are for!) ;-) Nonetheless, I am extremely grateful that he (and others) are doing this kind of work.

btw, I can't seem to locate the pricing or ordering info on the micro35.com site as you mentioned, can you point me to the link that gets you there, Thanks.

[Jacques_Meov]

If it's too good to be true, it usually is; then again, it may be, so you go first!

[Daniel Skubal]

Well, I suggest to sign up for the mailing list, but if you don't want to, just click the submit button. It will direct you to a page that tells you about the product and its pricing.

[Nick Adams]

well you never know, and I could definetly be wrong, it is appreciated when people do things that try to better something at a cost affordable to the indie filmmaker, however if your going to say something and tell ever one they'll get it by this date, sorry by this date now, plus I'll throw in stuff, opps it didn't happen but it's coming in soon, so heres some more free stuff... which by the way isn't going out to people since nothings going out... I think it just get's frustrating..... Imagine going to Fantastic 4 and you get to the theatre and they said, sorry the prints didn't arrive? apparantly there was a problem..... I think the distributor would find another printer.....

p.s. although he's not charging what everyone else would be, he's still charging and as a providor of services there really is an obligation especially since payment has been recieved... can't forget the happy face :thumbsup:

[reservoir]

I think it's fair to say that if there is no progress, manuals, pre-built kits, etc. by the end of April...it might turn into vaporware. I mean....I thought redrock HAD a working prototype that's been thoroughly tested. Isn't that what the manuals are *supposed* to based on....his prototype? I understand getting busy and tied up and what not. But taking 5 minutes to post what's going on shouldn't be too much to ask. Personally I'm not gonna bitch about it *too* much even if it takes 6 more months, cause I'd rather have it for $500 bux rather than 10k for a mini35. Just drop us a line with the latest news Redrock!! ~reservoir~

[Wesley_Wong]

question, (I'm getting way ahead now) what would be a good shoulder mount with rails even longer , to support this ???

and I'm not talking about a full size DV rig pro ( I already have a magiqcam ) , so just looking for a run-and-gun light shoulder mount with 2 handles ?

James ? any idea ?

[marctronixx]

caivision has a rig with handles, etc..

[Wesley_Wong]

caivision has a rig with handles, etc..


yo, thanks. I check the website out and find the mattebox for the dvx and the 2 handles. But I dont' think it will have a shoulder brace for real shoulder support shooting and I don't think after we put on the 35mm lenses , the matte box will fit ?

Or am I wrong ?

[Daniel Skubal]

Update: Quoting James:

"Sorry for the delay guys. I've been taking care of the 'Business' side of things over the last several evenings while fixing a few things during the day. Here's some very exciting and interesting updates from the Micro35 camp.

Company Information:
Redrock Microsystems, LLC. will be the company that will manufacture the Micro35, Micro35 Pro, MicroMatte (Mattebox), MicroFocus (Follow Focus), and possibly a shoulder mount. The company will launch a new website within the next two weeks. There will be much more information on the products and services provided by Redrock Micro on the site. You'll be able to purchase the products above online, plus parts and accessories. Before releasing these products to the market, it was important to me to formally setup the infrastructure to develope, manufacture, and support these products and services. There will be plenty of company information on the site once it's released.

The Micro35 Project Guides:
As mentioned before, the guides are ready! The stickers came in, but the were the old logo. The new logos will show up early this week.

And here's the bad news. The latest GGs are terrible. I spent all weekend re-designing the mounting mechanism to support the correct gg. Everything is now back on track (an managed to remove about $10 from the design), but I'm faced with the option of shipping the guides without the GGs or holding them until the new GGs and Mounts are ready (Week or two at the most). I may email everyone and give them a choice.

Pre-Assembled Units:
This is going great! I've got an initial prototype run going now. It's caused me to change up the design some to get them massed produced, but that's part of the game.

The new SLR mounts are freaking awesome. It will immediatly allow you to order systems with Canon AF, Canon FD, Nikon, Pentax, (good for you!) etc. without any design work or testing (Good for us!).

We will begin taking orders on the Pre-Assembled Units in mid to late April. We're expecting the lead times to be two to four weeks initially, and once things are running smoothly, they should ship the next business day.

In case you haven't seen them, here are a few pics:
www.micro35.com/images/hi_view.jpg
www.micro35.com/images/low_view.jpg

We've also made a few design changes based on feedback from our prototypes (Thanks Larry!). Here are a few:
1. Gone to Stainless Steel rods instead of the Aluminum.
2. Using a clamping mechanism instead of a set-screw/knob.
3. Made a 3/8 tap in the side of the mount to attach an Isreali LCD arm.
4. The new GG mount. (This will be available to guide purchasers for building their own adapters.)

Micro35 in the Field:
The Micro35 is being used on several 'big/highly visible' productions in the next few months which will make for a very interesting product launch.

NAB:
We've had many questions regarding our attendance at NAB this year. 2006 will be the year for Redrock at NAB. We'll have most of the products complete by then including the Micro35 Pro.


Again, I'm very excited that we've formally setup the infrastucture to handle these products and services. I believe it will be the key to providing excellent solutions for the indie community for years to come!

James
www.micro35.com"

[reservoir]

Holy mother of frosty goodness!! A micro35 standard & Pro, Mattebox & Follow Focus. That would make all our dreams come true. Now if they will all just be able to work with the new HDX100 as well!?! That would save us all THOUSANDS!! Let's just hope everything listed *actually* materializes over the next few months!! ~reservoir~

[Wesley_Wong]

there's another playa coming into the field ... G35 ?

I wonder, will consumers like us benefit ?

[reservoir]

Whomever reaches *US* the consumers first is likely to win. Unless one is just way overpriced!! But then again, we could always use the mini35 and spend even more. It would appear the micro35 has a huge headstart. We've seen pics, videos, and tons of other info from that camp. All we have from G35 is a website and 2 videos. We'll see.... ~reservoir~

[BajotierraTV]

Redrock,

Any updates on when the guides will be shipping? I know this question has been asked a million times but it seems like the shipping keeps getting delayed. I like many of us here pre-ordered a guide a long time ago. Just would like an update.

Thanks

[Coco Bermudez]

Maybe Santa is delivering it to all of us boys and girls....hey that means we would not be seing it till December! RATS! :)

Is anyone aware that there is already some new video clips from the micro35 being put to use in a movie called the "ancient".

Check it out...i found this on the other posting sites....if this is old news...my apologies.

http://www.americanmovieworks.com/Micro35/micro35clips.htm

[Daniel Skubal]

James said the ground glass situation has been taken care of and that a new website is going up soon... along with pics of the updated mount.

[Sean King]

does anyone sell a homemade/affordable kit that I can buy now? I don't have the time to make one and I must shoot soon.

[Wesley_Wong]

Maybe we are all better off getting film look with real film : http://www.ikonoskop.com/

[Nick Adams]

Does that say that the camera is $6 dollars?, it looks interesting but I wonder when it's cheaper than a disposable 35mm camera

[gkskrishn]

That's basically the same thing I've show above.

I'm currently changing up the spinning design to an oscillating design which will take up less space. I'm also finishing up the errecting functionality which will be handled inside the device.

What is the difference between a spinning gg and an oscillating--are there any more pros rather than just the space that is saved? What are you going to use to oscillate the gg redrock??

[x-angel]

this is my question.....43 pages later...

[GenJerDan]

I'd avoid the oscillating, if only because it would probably be more difficult to isolate it.

[x-angel]

Thats what I was thinking.. I really don't see what the big difference between the two. If you get a fine enough grit on GG then spinning should be fine. Hell just leaving it static should be good too if the grit is fine enough on the glass.

[dan]

I really don't see what the big difference between the two By spinning a screen 10-15 times larger than the frame area, the chances of getting the movement perfectly plane are lower than oscillating a screen size of the frame size. A higher mass will have a higher inertia (the gyroscopic effect). Spinning creates a... hmmm... spinning "pattern" for the grain.
You may not see the individual grains, but the feeling of rotation is there. If the frame is placed at 9:00, it may "enhance" the feeling of motion picture.(vertical from frame to frame....like scratches on the film) Oscillating the screen is another challenge but if done in a circular motion, creates a "random" grain pattern movement (if ever visible, subject to screen brightness/light transmission) Both methods yield somewhat the desired result, subject to taste.

[andrew Powell]

I was curious since I have begun my own cunstruction fromthe red rock's instruction how to "attach" the carmera to the adapter many vague answers have been given but I figured, looking at your desig, you would have a much clearer respons.

[siniarch]

hey andrew. I tried the redrock's DIY booklet and also felt very confused. I pride myself in being handy and I was able to get mine to work. unfortunately, I kind of touched the Ground glass and you could see a line spinning also the drilling a hole through a screw to use it as a mount for the ground glass does not result in a well aligned GG holder (even with a drill press) and after much thought and consideration, I decided to just buy the damn thing. I figured, I rather make a shoulder brace, or other atachment that don't degrade the image. After spending all that money on the cam and everything else I might as well spend some more and get beautiful shots.
the DIY and the RedRock M2 do not attach to the camera. they just attach to a rail system below and the right distance form each other. some people have found a way to attach the M2 to the HVX200 with some step down rings and breaking a polarizing lense. I tried this and it worked. Do a search on this forum for M2 and hard mounting.
Just fyi. the M2 requires very precise machining. the GG must spin perfectly smooth, and if the GG is not mounted perfectly perpendicular to the camera lense, then the edges will be out of focus. Also I found out that for the HVX200 you needed to get the Achromat lense ($395 i think) which lets the HVX focus closer. without it you will get vignetting or not be able to focus on the GG properly.
Hope this all made sense.