PDA

View Full Version : General P2 Workflow



marcell
06-29-2009, 01:45 PM
Hi there,

Some general situations and questions to you about the AVC-Intra Workflow.
There are some Panasonic-cameras in the market between an enorm price range that records avc-intra and this codec will get more famous in future - especially with the delivery of the hpx300.
But what are the tools right now after you got a p2 card out of the camera.

What I really would need is a clear and understanding overview of the workflow tools and their possibilities -

The P2-viewer. I use it on notebook over the years to get a simple control what is on a p2 card folder. So for me this is a very basic tool and is only 32bit. Why and will there be a 64bit Version also?



1. What kind of player else exists for simply viewing the raw files? Is there any?
Is there no way to integrate the codecs into your system to be able to view the raw files of the camera on Mac or PC in already installed players?. For example in VLC , Windows Media Player or something else?

2. What are the ways to convert avc-intra and dvcproHD to any other format?

3. In which applications do you go with your material if your suite does not have the right function you need. (For example you want to grade or stabilize a sequenze in another software).


There are Mainconcept Tools for general conversion and for Premiere cs3 Cs4 I found today. Can anybody say something about this? Does these driver make it also possible to use with After Fx??

4. How do you get your Pana-files into After Fx, Combustion or anything else- edit - and import back to your suite?
impossible to get in/out with avc-intra?...)


a look to som things...


MAC - FinalCut:
AVC-Intra needs to be converted to prores and only works on intel based Macs!
the reason seems that avc intra is a h264 based codec coming not from Mac.
ok...! You are away from AVC!


Mac/Windows - Avid Media Composer
Which (exactly named) Avid-Version supports AVC-Intra in that moment?
How do you work here with AVC-Files in/out of Avid?


Windows / Avid Liquid / Chrome XE
- Supports DVCPro HD via Xreceive Function/Plugin.
But It only runs under Win 32Bit Systems and I am sure people want to use their 64bit Programmes with a Multi Core Machine. Here for example HPīs MultiCore-Machines are certified for that with an Aja Board to capture and play
uncompressed and DVCProHD via SDI.

- capture another source via AjaBoard in DVCPro-HD you get Files in a Quicktime Container. Why?
- Playing that files in Quicktime is only possible by other Software of "third Developers"

People say you cannot expect a further version of Liquid! So...

- no 64 bit
- no AVC-Intra.


Windows - Canopus Edius 5
Tested the 30days free Version and that Impression was the best of all in the current status.
The programm runs under 64bit uses all cores, handles DVDProHD and AVC-Intra very fast and you can also convert any file back to a P2 based
structure.


Windows - Premiere 4
DVC-Pro = yes
AVC-Intra = same question that Avid media Composer
So do the people need extra driver from main concept.


Ok...
I really donīt know what do you use to handle the new AVC-Material and you rock with General P2 so it would be very great to hear your solutions you go with.



All the best,

Marcel Germany

Barry_Green
06-29-2009, 03:38 PM
But where are the tools right now?
Everywhere. What's missing?



Viewing...1. What kind of player else exists for simply viewing the raw files?
P2 Viewer, or Windows Media Player. I can double-click any MXF file and it'll play in Windows Media Player.

On mac, use Raylight or Calibrated's MXF Importer or MXF4QT, and you can view any of the files right in the Quicktime player.


Conversion...2. What are the ways to convert avc-intra and dvcproHD to any other format?
Er, same as any other. What do you want to convert to? And why? On the Mac, Log & Transfer in FCP is pretty much your file convert tool. On Windows, you don't really need to -- Avid, Adobe, Autodesk, Canopus/Grass Valley, Newtek, and (with Raylight) Sony Vegas read the files directly.


3. In which applications and how do you go with your material if your suite does not have the right function you need. (For example you want to grade or stabilize a sequenze in another software).
Again, what do you want to use? Most every tool out there already has full P2 support. Flame, Inferno, Combustion, Flint, they all support P2 and AVC-Intra. Avid, Apple, Adobe, EDIUS, SpeedEdit, and Vegas (w/Raylight) all support P2 DVCPRO-HD, and EDIUS, Apple, Avid and (shortly) Adobe all have AVC-Intra support.

If you really need something else that isn't on this list, Telestream's FlipFactory can convert any P2 file into any format.


There are Mainconcept Tools for general conversion and for Premiere cs3 Cs4 I found today. 4. Can anybody say something about this?
I don't know what MainConcept tools you're talking about. Premiere Pro CS3 and CS4 have native MXF support for P2 files. Just import them directly off the card, or off your hard disk, just like any AVI or .MOV or any other kind of file.


Does these driver make it also possible to use with After Fx??
After Effects already has native P2 support and has had it since version CS3. AVC-Intra support hasn't been implemented yet; latest I've heard is that they will probably have it by the time the IBC show comes around.

So if you want to use P2 with after effects, just plug the card in and import the files. Done.


4. How do you get your Pana-files into After Fx, Combustion or anything else- edit - and import back to your suite?

Just import the files, like any .AVI or .MOV file.


MAC - FinalCut:
AVC-Intra needs to be converted to prores and only works on intel based Macs!
the reason seems that avc intra is a h264 based codec coming not from Mac.
ok...! You are away from AVC!
Use Avid on the Mac, you'll have native AVC-Intra support. Or, forget the goofy "Log & Transfer" window and use Calibrated's MXF Importer, and you'll have native AVC-Intra in all your files.



Mac/Windows - Avid Media Composer
Which (exactly named) Avid-Version supports AVC-Intra in that moment?
Whatever the current version is.


How do you work here with AVC-Files in/out of Avid?
Like you would with any other file.




Windows - Canopus Edius 5
Tested the 30days free Version and that Impression was the best of all in the current status.
The programm runs under 64bit uses all cores, handles DVDProHD and AVC-Intra very fast and you can also convert any file back to a P2 based
structure.
Yes, EDIUS has brilliant AVC-Intra and P2 integration, makes most other editors look primitive in comparison.



Windows - Premiere 4
DVC-Pro = yes
AVC-Intra = same question that Avid media Composer
So do the people need extra driver from main concept.
Adobe hasn't finished their AVC-Intra implementation yet. They demonstrated it at the NAB show. It was effortless and seamless. But for some reason they haven't released it yet; look for it around September.

marcell
06-29-2009, 04:53 PM
Hi Barry,

thanks a lot. These are very helpful tips for me and I will go on and try/use
different things you answered.

You asked for what I wanted to do:
Well, I have a growing project with different DVCPro timelines in Avid Liquid Chrome and (of course) I would like to use the better AVC-Intra for further records in this project but it isnīt supported.
Then I just asked myself
a: to record in AVC, convert the material to dvcpro.
b: keep recording in DVCPro for this project?
c: to setup new timelines in this project in another programm for example in edius?

Just wanted to know here which programm has the best workflow for me when I think to purhase a new one.

Also I want to do compositions in AE mixing pictures, mxf and rendered sequences - and want to get them back to timeline easily as an AVC Intra Stream for example. So you talked about Adobes development I didīt know and Autodesk... I will have a look the next days.

sounds good...Many thanks

Marcel

Barry_Green
06-29-2009, 07:51 PM
If you need something today, EDIUS is unparalleled for P2 integration. But if you intend to be doing a lot of After Effects work, I'd say look strongly at the CS4 suite, with an eye towards the time when they announce AVC-Intra integration.

As far as I know, Avid Liquid is a discontinued product and will not be updated.

kyote80
06-30-2009, 07:38 AM
Mainconcept.com has a plug-in codec for CS3-4 that will convert AVC-intra 50 & 100 to direct import into CS3-4. Right now, it retails for $399. I can't tell you how well it integrates or works.

Ben Digedig
07-07-2009, 02:10 PM
Avid Media Composer 3.5works beautifully with P2 & AVC-I. Straight in (although forget max res on a laptop - use 100MPBPS+ fast access RAID stripes for 100MBPS AVC-I)

Barry may I also applaud your patience!

BD

jjb
07-10-2009, 08:33 AM
Everywhere. What's missing?

[/B]
P2 Viewer, or Windows Media Player. I can double-click any MXF file and it'll play in Windows Media Player.


Barry
I never used the Windows Media Player to view MXF-files. Just tried it but it shows a 960x720 picture (not streched to 1280x720). Any ideas?

Barry_Green
07-10-2009, 10:32 AM
Yep, that's what happens, because DVCPRO-HD is 960x720. AVC-Intra 100 displays properly because it's a square-pixel format.

I don't ever use WMP to view files either, but I mentioned it because a) I was thinking AVC-Intra, and b) yes it's stretched, but at least you can play the file and view it. Not the best solution for DVCPRO-HD, but it's fine for AVC-Intra.