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jambredz
06-20-2009, 06:40 AM
I'm definately not up on the technical aspects of this codec (i shoot with dvx) but at some point i'd wanna get an hmc. i know that its hard to edit and u guys transcode to more editable formats (from reading alot of the hmc forums). I've heard people say its a "consumer" format but not 2 sure what that really means.

Anyway this is the real issue..i have a friend that wants to get a consumer camera that shoots to memory card and the ones she's looked at all shoot avchd. She wants a decent camera that has good quality so she can do some little promo stuff, use to pitch ideas ( she's a producer) but she def cant handle AVChd headache. So i was desuading her from getting it cuz of the headaches i see u guys having . I told her to get the canon hv30 cuz it shoots to tape (and has 24p :D, but thats just for me cuz i'm a dvxer lol).

So whats up? how does it seem that consumers can edit this stuff but the hmc is a headache? itsnt it same AVCHD?? why dont these consumers need a beast of a computer and how are they editing there soccer games?

Pardon my ignorance :)

Barry_Green
06-20-2009, 06:43 AM
With EDIUS, or EDIUS Neo, or Premiere Pro CS4, or Vegas, or Ulead, or Pinnacle, or Nero, you just drag the files onto the timeline and edit. The speed/performance of your editing is related to the speed/performance of your computer; with an nVidia graphics card Premiere Pro CS4.1 makes it as easy as DV editing.

So your question is related to how the footage will be editing, using what program? If using a Mac, yes, transcoding to a different codec is standard operating procedure.

jambredz
06-20-2009, 06:55 AM
hey Barry wsup. just got my dvxbook :)

Anyhoo...i duno if u saw this b4 i modified it...but what i really am interested to know is is there a difference between these consumers cameras that shoot avchd... like sony hdr-cx12e... and the hmc150. Are u saying that all these "soccer moms" have pcs that are capable of editing this stuff and you guys are having trouble and have to transcode? well i know that cant be so that wsa more rhetorical :) . whats the difference? And should i be desuading her from an AVCHD consumer cam.

Barry_Green
06-20-2009, 07:06 AM
I have no troubles with AVCHD footage. Drag and drop onto the Premiere, EDIUS, or Vegas timelines. On Vegas it's a little sluggish but acceptable. On EDIUS it's about real-time or close to it. In Premiere Pro CS4.1 with my laptop's nVidia graphics card, it's just like editing P2 footage, no hassles.

AVCHD is going to be "the new DV", it's a universal format designed and produced by Sony and Panasonic together, and supported by JVC, Canon, Sharp, Samsung, Sanyo, and ... well, everybody. It's designed to replace HDV.

There's nothing particular about HMC150 footage that causes it to be problematical. The only problem I know of is that FCP/FCE don't support the footage natively yet, so they require a transcode, but that's built-in to the log & transfer function. It takes time and creates huge files, but it works.

The only hassle I hear about is for people who are trying to edit 24p from a camera that doesn't record 24pN, so they have to jump through some hoops to strip out pulldown. But the HMC150 isn't that way, it records 24pN.

jambredz
06-20-2009, 07:21 AM
Sorry for my hard "headedness" cuz i def do see what ur saying. But the hmc forums are littered with problems people have editing in this format natively and therefore have to transcode. So i am clearly missing something here. And just recently i'm seeing people praising the fact that Premier came out with that 4.1 version so they can finally edit this stuff. And the cross section of programs used to edit is wide. But ur saying that all these programs (apart from final cut) could edit this and this hasnt been an issue and all thats really the issue is the level/speed of ur pc and graphics card? I'm def missing something

zeroblank
06-20-2009, 08:51 AM
IMO Its still a little time before soccer moms are using or editing AVCHD. But any issues that have come up have been settled fast. Like Barry said it is designed to be the new DV but it will still be a little time before DV is gone. On slower/older computers you will notice that things run a little slow but as we know computers change everyday and within the next year I dont see any one having trouble with it at all.

David Saraceno
06-20-2009, 09:13 AM
If you want to edit AVCHD natively, you will need a fast CPU and a solid GPU and a program that supports it natively.

That's why many transcode to an intermediate editing format -- this increases file size but compensates by providing a relatively smooth, RT edit.

That's the trade off.

jambredz
06-20-2009, 10:10 AM
IMO Its still a little time before soccer moms are using or editing AVCHD. .

I dont deny that... infact thats what i thought. and i agree with all thats been said cuz i read what u guys say about it. but there are seems to be a good amount of consumer cams shooting in this format so I kinda just wanna know how these people ( i'm assuming soccer moms, average joe) that buy these cams edit there stuff if the pros (you guys) have such a hassle sometimes. I dont see soccer moms transcoding stuff lol....then again, times maybe changing, i duno. Nor do i see them figuring out specs of pc's, compatible AVCHD native programs. So thats why i was wondering.

So in the end it looks like i should tell her to get the hv30 instead of say the HFs100 ...cuz she sure as heck aint sitting down transcoding footage. She like's the simplicity of things and really doesnt wanna get all technical about it.

sewolla
06-21-2009, 12:08 AM
Then yes, the HV30 will do fine.

VideoMaker
06-23-2009, 06:42 AM
Barry, is PP CS4.1 optimized specifically for nVidia, or for high end graphics cards in general? I did a search but couldn't find anything regarding PP CS4.1/AVCHD optimization for graphics cards.



With EDIUS, or EDIUS Neo, or Premiere Pro CS4, or Vegas, or Ulead, or Pinnacle, or Nero, you just drag the files onto the timeline and edit. The speed/performance of your editing is related to the speed/performance of your computer; with an nVidia graphics card Premiere Pro CS4.1 makes it as easy as DV editing.

So your question is related to how the footage will be editing, using what program? If using a Mac, yes, transcoding to a different codec is standard operating procedure.

Barry_Green
06-23-2009, 06:57 AM
I don't know what it's optimized for. I know I have a lowly nVidia NVS 140m in my laptop, and I get full-screen realtime playback in CS4, so I know it works with at least nVidias.

Allen Ellis
06-23-2009, 09:17 AM
I have a GeForce 9800 series + Quad-core and with Windows 7 at least it begins stuttering when I make the viewer more than about 480x360. Trying it full-screen (1680x1050) makes my framerate drop to 1-5fps

I saw a hack on Video Copilot for fooling your machine into thinking your card is a Quadro series, allowing applications to accelerate via OpenGL instead of DirectX. I think - I'm not real sure, but I'll give it a try soon and let you know if it actually helps my framerate.

(For the record, this is both with AVCHD native (4.1 patch) and DVCPRO HD transcoded)

Jordan_S
06-25-2009, 09:58 PM
...I have a lowly nVidia NVS 140m in my laptop, and I get full-screen realtime playback in CS4...

May I ask what your other specs are?

Barry_Green
06-25-2009, 10:06 PM
2.4GHz Core 2 Duo laptop (Lenovo R61). NVidia NVX 140m graphics card. 2GB RAM, WinXP SP3.

David Saraceno
06-26-2009, 08:47 AM
At 1080 or 720 Barry? Or both.

Barry_Green
06-26-2009, 09:29 AM
720 full-screen full frame rate even @ 60. 1080/60i still stutters at full screen.