Zoom mounting options

[J Davis]

How are you all mounting the zoom? Or is everyone planing on a carry bag/sling?

Based on Zacuto's video (LINK (http://vimeo.com/4782593)) I came up with this

$10 Audio Technica Flash Shoe Mount B&H LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68160-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8469_AT8469_Camera_Shoe_Mount.htm l)
$15 Giottos Mini Ballhead B&H LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/221096-REG/Giottos_MH1004_320_MH1004_Mini_Ball_Head.html)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/68160.jpghttp://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/221096.jpg
Saw another way (B&H LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/407099-REG/Rycote_037302_037302_Hot_Shoe_3_8_.html)) but Zoom may be too low and interfere with the controls.

B&H closed today so will try it tomorrow.



EDIT:
Its monday and I just took my GH1 to B&H, the Audio Technica Shoe Mount does not fit in the GH1 shoe socket
so I came up with another solution for same price. See post 11

[mhood]

Manfrotto 482LCK Micro Ball Head with Hot Shoe Mount is what I use with my Edirol HR9.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=0&shs=Manfrotto+482LCD&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=jsp%2Fproductlist.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=submit

[Martti Ekstrand]

I would mount the Zoom on the sound guy - in fact a good sound guy comes with a Zoom or similar device included.

[Tim Joy]

I rigged a mount to my mixer bag, and noticed one thing that you should take into account when mounting the zoom-
The record/ stop/ Fast forward buttons on the face are quite easy to press accidentally, and the lights are impossible to see in bright light. A couple of times I hit a button and stopped recording by accident, just from moving around. The screen is still visible in bright light, but not the red recording light around the buttons.

[J Davis]

i would mount the zoom on the sound guy - in fact a good sound guy comes with a zoom or similar device included.

lol

[paulgandersman]

please report back with the best/cheapest solution for mounting a Zoom to the GH1 if you figure it out, I am definitely thinking about picking one of these up and my primary use for it would be mounted to the top of my cam.

[paulgandersman]

also does anyone know if you can mount the (much cheaper) zoom H4 onto the GH1? and what would be some of the drawbacks of getting this as opposed to the H4n?

http://www.amazon.com/Zoom-ZOO-H4-Handy-Recorder/dp/B000LGA2K6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1245642462&sr=8-3

[Mike@AF]

AFAIK, there's improved sound on the H4N. At least that's what I gathered from my research. And I agree with the above post about the H4N, or any other audio recorder, being with your sound guy. That way the levels could be adjusted when necessary. I also think a device like that would make the camera awkward to handle, but maybe that's just me.

[Jackson Miller]

Yes, well this is for the times that you are wandering around the city and don't have, need, or want a sound guy. And for the times that you have a sound guy, obviously he would have it. But you still will need a way to mount the audio device for when you are just fooling around and flying solo. You can't tell me you don't every plan on shooting fun stuff as it comes and documenting life? Or even just doing test shots?

And final thing, if you have an ACTUAL sound guy, he will have something much better than the zoom. For most people this is just their personal thing for when they can't use something better. Or they are saving up still (like me).

[J Davis]

also does anyone know if you can mount the (much cheaper) zoom H4 onto the GH1? and what would be some of the drawbacks of getting this as opposed to the H4n?

http://www.amazon.com/Zoom-ZOO-H4-Handy-Recorder/dp/B000LGA2K6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1245642462&sr=8-3


I also went with the much cheaper H4 instead of the H4n ($220+tx instead of $350+tx). My reasoning is that for serious situations my shotgun goes to preamp so my audio is going in at line level. The quality would be the same between H4 and H4n.

For run&gun stuff the reviews for H4 in built mics are good so I decided to save on the money.

[J Davis]

So when I was at B&H I found that the Audio Technica shoe mount I mentioned in post 1 doesn't fit in the GH1 shoe.
Its slightly too big and I didn't want to force it so the parts I got were

$22.95 Rycote Hot Shoe Adapter LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/407099-REG/Rycote_037302_037302_Hot_Shoe_3_8_.html)
$5.95 Bogen Female 3/8 to Male 1/4 LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546532-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_015_015_Female_3_8_to.h tml)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/407099.jpg http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/546532.jpg


I also tested with the Giottos mini ball head but the Zoom felt too high up.
The above mentioned parts means the Zoom is low and manageable but you can see and still access all GH1 controls.
Hope this helps you all, glad I can finally give a little info back to the community.

[paulgandersman]

awesome! thank you! will definitely be picking these up when I get my H4!

[J Davis]

So I finally had a close look at my Zoom H4 (never played with H4 or H4n before) and I've noticed a problem. The unit has no shockmount, therefore the handling noise is pretty bad.

I still think its a good piece of kit for recording line level audio off a mixer in a two system setup where it is nowhere near the cam. Most of what I do is with actors and it will be fine for this.

But as for an on camera sound substitute in run&gun situations in its current form it is pretty bad. You would get better results from a Rode video mic going in camera. Sure you get auto gain but handling noise is worse. I am surprised no one here has mentioned it before, has anyone got a solution to this?

[mhood]

The Roland 09HR doesn't have a mount on the unit...it is on the removable leather cover. I also bought a foam wind screen that fits when the leather cover is on the mic. It's not a shock mount but it is probably a little closer than a direct H4N to hotshoe mount.

[Mike@AF]

Yes, well this is for the times that you are wandering around the city and don't have, need, or want a sound guy. And for the times that you have a sound guy, obviously he would have it. But you still will need a way to mount the audio device for when you are just fooling around and flying solo. You can't tell me you don't every plan on shooting fun stuff as it comes and documenting life? Or even just doing test shots?

And final thing, if you have an ACTUAL sound guy, he will have something much better than the zoom. For most people this is just their personal thing for when they can't use something better. Or they are saving up still (like me).

For those situations you mention, I was planning on going with the built-in mic at first to see how it is, then potentially getting the Panasonic or a Rode mic to mount to it instead. Attaching the H4N would just seem too clunky to me for those situations. If the reports come in that it works really well mounted to the camera, then maybe that will change.

[J Davis]

For those situations you mention, I was planning on going with the built-in mic at first to see how it is, then potentially getting the Panasonic or a Rode mic to mount to it instead. Attaching the H4N would just seem too clunky to me for those situations. If the reports come in that it works really well mounted to the camera, then maybe that will change.

The GH1 built in mic is part of the pop up flash unit. It points directly upwards towards your nostrils when the flash unit is down. When the flash is raised the mic points backwards towards your throat.

Pana wants you to record your every breath, pant and gasp while you shoot whomever you are pointing the camera at.

[Mike@AF]

Wow, that's actually pretty poor design. What were they thinking?

[paulgandersman]

J Davis, does the H4 have a screw hole to mount it like the H4n?

[J Davis]

J Davis, does the H4 have a screw hole to mount it like the H4n?

It comes with a hard plastic shell case and velcro straps all together in the box. The unit fits pretty securely in it with zoom's velcro bit it doesn't look as professional as the H4n. There is a 1/4 20 hole in the hard shell case and the hole is positioned in the middle underneath.

If you go to my first post there is a link to a zacuto video on vimeo. The video shows the H4n mounted on top of a 5DM2. The H4 sits in exactly the same position.

come to think of it ... I wonder if the Zacuto unit has a shock mount ...

EDIT
I'm calling Zacuto now ...

[J Davis]

Waiting for Zacuto to call me back. In the meantime I've been messing around with other run & gun solutions. Nothing I like as it feels a bit cumbersome.
This is a NTG2 with shockmount and a samigon flash bracket out the side to hold the zoom h4. Cable gets in my face, and I'm stuck with Zoom's preamps, I don't like it. Hoping Zacuto mount has shockie.

I don't normally do event work but as luck would have it I agreed to do a job in a few weeks. At this rate I will borrow another cam.

[mhood]

Here's my D90's setup: Sign Video XLR-Pro, Roland Edirol 09HR, Manfrotto hot shoe ball mount.

[J Davis]

The kind of stuff I do means that when I have a tripod out my mic is off camera and on a boom. Its the solo hand held work that is the problem.

From the looks of your rig, if you were doing hand held you will have plenty of handling noise too as I can see no shock mount.

[mhood]

A foam pad between the leather sheath and the Edirol. The ball mounts to the leather sheath, not the Edirol unit. It's not a full blown shock mount but it isn't all that bad actually. I get very little camera operation noise either on the tripod or hand held. The XLR-Pro comes with the camera when you go hand held BTW...any off camera boom mic plugs right into the XLR-Pro. It ain't perfect but it ain't bad either. The stereo mics on the Edirol do a decent job close up (i.e., a run and gun corporate interview from across a desk).

[J Davis]

A foam pad between the leather sheath and the Edirol. The ball mounts to the leather sheath, not the Edirol unit. It's not a full blown shock mount but it isn't all that bad actually.

mhood you have me intrigued. Can you take a close up pic for us all to see?

You may have a real gem of an idea because this could be applied to the H4. It would be as simple as placing a foam pad between the H4 and its containing hard plastic shell case. Then I could dispense with the long-ass shotgun / shock mount etc

[mhood]

Sure...happy to:

[J Davis]

Its a great idea mhood, a great idea. I didn't have any foam lying around so I grabbed some bubble wrap to run a test with the H4.

Here are my observations with the H4

- The H4 has a headphone out so monitoring with headphones can't happen with this setup. The movement of the headphone wire goes straight to the zoom body and bypasses the padding.

- The padding has reduced handling noise by about 50% but its still there. however I found that if I took care then I could operate menus on the GH1 without hearing anything. But as far as adjusting the zoom on the kit lens - no good - I could hear the H4 still picked up the noise, focus ring was ok.

I also spoke to someone at Zacuto (not a sales rep, they were busy), she said there is no shock mount or padding in their Zounds Hotshoe. This makes me seriously wonder what they meant by good audio in their video I linked to in post 1.

So I think for top quality audio in a solo run&gun situation, a shotgun in a shock mount on top of the cam with an XLR cable leading to a preamp on my belt and then to the zoom also on my belt is the only solution that I can see. Unless you can afford a wireless, then you are gonna have to deal with an XLR cable in your way.

mhood's solution is good if you are very careful with your handling of the camera, don't need to use headphones to monitor, and don't need to zoom during a shot.

[mhood]

A leather sheath for the Zoom that has the mount would be nice but you would still have the problem of XLR cables in your way with a hot shoe mount. I'm surprised the Edirol HR9 doesn't get more respect...it really sounds clean and combined with the XLR-Pro makes a pretty flexible portable system.

[J Davis]

Found some foam and it works better than the bubble wrap I used in my quick test last night.

I haven't had a close look at the H4n but from product shots it looks like there is no plastic shell case so I don't know if the shock/padding is possible with that model.

Anyway here is some pics, please excuse crappy quality as I'm using a $100 point'n shoot party camera

EDIT - by the way I did a 6 minute sync test with 1080p AVCHD and the zoom H4, it did sync perfectly in FCP, 1hr sync test coming soon

2nd EDIT - these jpegs attached show the height the zoom is at with the parts I used from post 11 (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1670709&postcount=11)

POST 11
$22.95 Rycote Hot Shoe Adapter LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/407099-REG/Rycote_037302_037302_Hot_Shoe_3_8_.html)
$5.95 Bogen Female 3/8 to Male 1/4 LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546532-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_015_015_Female_3_8_to.h tml)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/407099.jpg http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/546532.jpg

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

How are you all mounting the zoom? Or is everyone planing on a carry bag/sling?

Based on Zacuto's video (LINK (http://vimeo.com/4782593)) I came up with this

$10 Audio Technica Flash Shoe Mount B&H LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68160-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8469_AT8469_Camera_Shoe_Mount.htm l)
$15 Giottos Mini Ballhead B&H LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/221096-REG/Giottos_MH1004_320_MH1004_Mini_Ball_Head.html)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/68160.jpghttp://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/221096.jpg
Saw another way (B&H LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/407099-REG/Rycote_037302_037302_Hot_Shoe_3_8_.html)) but Zoom may be too low and interfere with the controls.

B&H closed today so will try it tomorrow.



EDIT:
Its monday and I just took my GH1 to B&H, the Audio Technica Shoe Mount does not fit in the GH1 shoe socket
so I came up with another solution for same price. See post 11
You know I had the same experience and came to the same conclusion. I had a mount like the one you have their laying around and went and purchased something else because I couldn't get mine to fit. BUT - it really did fit. I just had to not be afraid to push it. It's just very VERY snug and I did get it in. So don't be afraid to push it in there.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

....
Anyway here is some pics, please excuse crappy quality as I'm using a $100 point'n shoot party camera
I'll do you one better than your $100 point and shoot quality, here's a pic with my camera phone. :)
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/picture.php?albumid=182&pictureid=1258
what about something like this - uses the mic stand adapter that comes with the H4n, mounted in shock mount, flipped back so the zoom rests behind and slightly above the camera.
(just shipped my camera to Barry G for testsing so don't have it)

[J Davis]

I had thought about a studio shock mount solution as you have pictured but I don't own a studio shock mount and I also didn't want to use something that cumbersome on top of a DSLR

Is that the H4n you have pictured? And if it is, can you tell me if the 1/4 thread hole for mounting is in the zoom body? or in a hard plastic shell case holder attached to the zoom body like in my H4 pics above?

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

It's the H4n and it's in the body.

[J Davis]

it's in the body.

That a bummer .. means you can't use mhoods padding trick

[J Davis]

Maybe you could pick up plastic mounting shell from the original H4 as a spare part from zoom?

[PhilD]

I'll do you one better than your $100 point and shoot quality, here's a pic with my camera phone. :)
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/picture.php?albumid=182&pictureid=1258
what about something like this - uses the mic stand adapter that comes with the H4n, mounted in shock mount, flipped back so the zoom rests behind and slightly above the camera.
(just shipped my camera to Barry G for testsing so don't have it)


This calls for a Vimeo video with your audio setup ;)

[PhilD]

Found some foam and it works better than the bubble wrap I used in my quick test last night.

I haven't had a close look at the H4n but from product shots it looks like there is no plastic shell case so I don't know if the shock/padding is possible with that model.

Anyway here is some pics, please excuse crappy quality as I'm using a $100 point'n shoot party camera

EDIT - by the way I did a 6 minute sync test with 1080p AVCHD and the zoom H4, it did sync perfectly in FCP, 1hr sync test coming soon

2nd EDIT - these jpegs attached show the height the zoom is at with the parts I used from post 11 (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1670709&postcount=11)

Is it just me or you can't use the viewfinder or hold the cam up to your eye? I will try a recorder that has the tripod/hotshoe mount elsewhere than the bottom...

[J Davis]

Is it just me or you can't use the viewfinder or hold the cam up to your eye? I will try a recorder that has the tripod/hotshoe mount elsewhere than the bottom...

You are referring to my current on 'camera setup' (pictured in psot 28)?
If so I've had no problems with LCD or electronic viewfinder, can reach all controls easily.

If you come up with other recorders and mounting options please post them here as I am interested.

As you have probably read, lack of shock mount is a problem. I tried putting the recorder (my zoom) on the side but I didn't like the unbalanced weight with a cam this small. On top keeps it balanced.


BTW ... I don't recommend mics attached to cameras for any serious work at all.
This is purely for times when it has to be solo.

[PhilD]

You are referring to my current on 'camera setup' (pictured in psot 28)?
If so I've had no problems with LCD or electronic viewfinder, can reach all controls easily.

If you come up with other recorders and mounting options please post them here as I am interested.

As you have probably read, lack of shock mount is a problem. I tried putting the recorder (my zoom) on the side but I didn't like the unbalanced weight with a cam this small. On top keeps it balanced.


BTW ... I don't recommend mics attached to cameras for any serious work at all.
This is purely for times when it has to be solo.

Yeah. I've purchased a Zoom H2 on eBay because it didn't seem convenient to me to have half the Zoom H4/H4N towards my head. Sure it keeps the camera balanced but I want to try something else.

In lbs:
H2 is 0.24lbs
H4 is 0.41lbs
H4N is 0.61lbs.

So the H4N is over twice as much weight as the H2

The H2's tripod/hotshoe mount thingie is not placed at the same place as the H4/H4n. Not sure how to explain that in proper English but look at pics on Google Images.

Please not that I'm not taking into consideration sound quality as the basis of my choice, I'm probably going to record only high bitrate MP3 anyway.

[J Davis]

Not to mention that the H2 is cheaper!
I almost went that way myself as I saw a few on craigslist for $90, $100 or thereabouts.
From what I hear the menu is about is a lot easier to navigate with the H2.

[Ben_B]

I just realized my brother has a Zoom H2, doing some tests on it the built in mic isn't great at any kind of range but I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on using it with a little shotgun mic on the camera or rods (it has 3.5mm in.) Recording quality actually seems pretty respectable and I think an H2 with a real external shotgun mic (no phantom power though) would be better than the H4 with its built in mics at the same price...any thoughts?

When I get back to school when the summer is over I'll just check out a Marantz pmd660 or something like it and have another person boom mic it, but for now what do people think of the Zoom H2, as I already have one on hand and would love to shoot a short...has anyone used it and has any notes for me?

[tonydvcoste]

from what i understand the H4n can be used as an audio interface, you can plug a 1/4" guitar jack into it, not only an XLR audio input, and that's important if you need/want to record your own soundtrack, you get a field recorder as well as a home studio in one little package. using a sound guy is a luxury to a lot of people in here i'm sure, so being able to downsize a crew is important, i definitely need to mount my zoom and haven't found a solid solution yet, though the manfrotto looks interesting.

[Eddy Robinson]

Use a shotgun plugged into the H4n (or via preamp into a line input or whatever). For the fixed microphones. Pop the thing on a mic stand either beside the camera or above the talent. Mounting it on the camera and trying to use it like a directional microphone is silly. Besides the practical issues (see below) your audio is going to sound like it has a hole in the middle because an X-Y configuration is designed to provide a wide stereo field. This is not at all what you want for film dialog, although mixing it with a mono signal from a boom will sound awesome.

You can put it on a boom, but even that is a bit silly, plus the various models are really too heavy to be at the end of a boom - the longer the pool, the greater the effective weight on the end of it (because a boom pole is like a lever) and the more handling noise you are going to get from your unfortunate boom operator.

[J Davis]

Mounting it on the camera and trying to use it like a directional microphone is silly.
@Eddy.
Most of us are using the GH1 for two purposes. One is to make narrative drama short films and the like. And for that no one in their right mind would dream of using an on camera mic. Booms, shotguns, lavs and preamps make much more sense.
But the second use of the GH1 is for 1 man work and in some of these situations you do want sound to go along with your image. Whether its running about town, filming the kids or doing a paid gig where you are simply recording talking heads at a location. In all these situations you want sound and the only solution is to mount the damn thing on the camera. Hence the purpose of this thread.