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View Full Version : Will we see footage like this 5D MK II footage?



Sheppy52
06-17-2009, 08:00 PM
Okay. I came late to this GH1 conversation but I've never wanted to spend my money faster. I own an HVX200 and understand it won't replace it (will it?) but I have a quick question which might only be answered by time.


I've been looking at footage from the GH1 around the board and have seen a lot of it, but do you think we will see image quality like this commercial shot with the 5D MK II? Insanely awesome and could fool me that it wasn't shot with a $20,000 camera:

http://vimeo.com/5000009

Kiri
06-17-2009, 08:17 PM
I'm new to the game too, but I think what makes that clip you linked to especially nice looking is that it has had a lot of color grading and post-processing done on it.
Also, the f1.4 lens gives it a very shallow DOF which is a nice look.

I haven't seen anything from the GH1 that has been so heavily produced yet. So far I have mostly just seen "samples". But I suspect that the GH1 is also capable of this quality. Just keep in mind that it is going to have a lot to do with the lens and post processing too.

upshot
06-17-2009, 08:22 PM
What exactly is so special about this vid?

Could you shoot something like that with the GH1? Add rooftop, fast 25mm, ND filters and pouting models and Yes I think you could...

(after copious color correction)

Psynema
06-17-2009, 08:36 PM
I think it'll be close, but won't quite match the Mark ii - that sensor is huge.

But put good glass on the GH1 and no reason why you can't get close - Joshua Tree looked great.

Honestly, as good as the mark ii looks, sometimes I think the contrast and DOF are way overkill and fear the look may get dated 5 years from now looking back.

Sheppy52
06-17-2009, 08:51 PM
Maybe I'm just wondering why the Mark 5D costs so much more if the GH1 can produce the same for half the price. I guess that's just the way technology is, but like Psynema says, the sensor is the Mark 5D is larger. I'm just wondering if I can afford it if I should go with the Mark.

I do a lot of spec commercials (would like to do more but the HVX plus M2 combo keeps me from going out and shooting as much as I should. Call me lazy I know. I think the DSLR solution would get me out there more but I want to make sure the quality is good.)

I don't really want to turn this into an Mark 5D vs GH1 thread because I'm sure there are plenty. But, even with all the hype about the GH1 coming out, I guess my question comes down to, which would you buy and use most if money was not an object in the decision and why?

Thanks for humoring me.

John Caballero
06-17-2009, 09:00 PM
The Mark ll has been in the hands of many for a very long time. The GH1 is in the hands of few since the very short time of its realease. I am sure we will see amazing stuff from it as time passes and talented individuals get around to know it well and use it. I too have an HVX 200 and I am keeping it but I won't be using it much as soon as I start using the GH1. I think the Mark ll is a very good camera but I wouldn't get one myself. Its all a matter of taste and needs but for $1500 the GH1 is a great buy.

Kholi
06-17-2009, 09:01 PM
Do you mean can you get incredibly thin DOF with the GH-1 outdoors in daylight? Sure... purchase fast (0.95 - 1.4) glass and plenty of NDs to always shoot wide open.

However, it won't be as easy to get insanely thin DOF with the GH-1. It's more in line with S35 than Vistavision.

Sheppy52
06-17-2009, 09:07 PM
So, Kholi. As a man who owns the Mark and is getting the GH, will the GH be replacing a lot of your needs as far as the Mark goes for video?

Kholi
06-17-2009, 09:09 PM
So, Kholi. As a man who owns the Mark and is getting the GH, will the GH be replacing a lot of your needs as far as the Mark goes for video?

With any luck I'll sell my Mark II right after these two gigs. Still waiting for a shipping confirmation for my two GH-1's, that's for sure.

MKii has a better image, just isn't the better camera for me. If you want the best image @ 1080 then the MKii is the winner.
By the way, I'm interested in the 60D and Samsung NX. Both specifically because they'll be closer to Academy FOV, Canon's producing a great 1080 and an updated technology plus 24P could really be nice in a cheaper 60D body.

And I'd be willing to chop the 60D and mod it to take PL glass because of the price.

Sheppy52
06-17-2009, 09:14 PM
MKii has a better image, just isn't the better camera for me. If you want the best image @ 1080 then the MKii is the winner.


Why is it the better camera for you?

Kholi
06-17-2009, 09:38 PM
Repost from weeks ago:


GH-1

Pros:

- 1080/24P, 720/60P, 720/30P
* Slow Mo in Post is easier, direct
* 720/60P is robust
* MJPEG Option for instant access
- PAL Support
- 4/3" Sensor
* Vast coverage of lenses in every brand including Cinema Spec
* Easy Focus Pulling, Mark Hitting
- Small and Lightweight: Great for small rigs and setups
- Kit lens: 14-140 w/Silent Focus and OIS
* Automatic Features (great for doc, run-n-gun)
- Flip Out Rotatable LCD (great for run-n-gun)
- IN-Camera Crop Options
- Jello Control in Both 1080 and 720 controlled extremely well.
- Excellent Battery Consumption
* 2 Hours for recording.
* 1 Hour Charge Time for batteries
- No Overheating or intense heat output
- Lengthy Recording Times in all modes. Great for Events, etc.
- Quite cheap for the benefits that come with it.
* MSR: 1500.00 w/Kit Lens

Cons:

- 1080/24P not at its best -- enough of an image hit to warrant caution
* Contained in 60i which needs Pulldown
* Artifacts introduced due to 1080/24P Implementation
- Lowlight performance not as great as MKii
- Not exactly S35mm FOV
- No Video Out Monitoring during recording built-in
- No Audio Metering (dunno if this is really a con, but sure)
- Weak Still Capabilities on a Consumer level
- Aliasing issues in 1080P, 720P TBD but looks better. Needs workarounds


Canon 5D MKii

Pros

- Full frame sensor
* Photographic Full Frame FOV and DOF
* Better low light performance
* High dynamic range
* Live HDMI out while recording
- Robust 1080 Compression. Still worthy video in fact.
- Incredible still images for the money. Just look at the raving reviews.
- Hudson's Participation in the 5D Free Program
* Gui represented Audio Levels
* Adjustable Audio gain
* On screen Zebras for Highlight pretection
* Crop Marks on Screen for Video stay visible
- Live Video out through HDMI or Composite port during recording

Cons

- 30P limitation. No options in-camera to record higher or lower
- Full Frame DOF will cause problems with focusing in Run-N-Gun
- Full Frame limits lens choices, although great glass available that covers it.
- Larger Body than competitors
- No Crop Options at the time, need to crop in post if you want such a thing.
- Battery Drains quickly when Live View is activated
- No Flip-Out LCD. Locked into EVF or Stationary LCD on back.
- Hot Pixels prone to appearing during extended use
- Heats Up: affects not known, outside of hot pixels.
- Aliasing issues need workarounds
- Jello more prevalent than GH-1, but much better than D90
- Price in comparison to competitors
* 2600 + Tax (2800+ in CA) with no kit lens and no AC adapter.

This list is based on NOW, not later. Not assumptions or rumors or speculation on either side of the camp. One camera isn't even out yet in the US, the other is already here.

I know a lot of people are going to jump in and start slinging rocks, getting angry. This is my observation from using both cameras.

Both cameras are great, and the important thing to know is that both will produce an incredible image for the price. They come with limitations, and neither are perfect. Far from it.

Pick and Choose your poison. And if I've left something out, please inform me in a respectful manner and I'll be happy to change it.

groveChuck
06-17-2009, 09:47 PM
Meaning you won't be shooting 1080?
Or it's just a matter of FOV?
And no Canon L series glass?

Sheppy52
06-17-2009, 09:51 PM
Thanks for re-posting that. I saw it before. I just was wondering what the dealbreaker is for YOU personally.

Kholi
06-17-2009, 10:15 PM
- Full Frame - Don't really like it. Too Wide, too Shallow. Stop down, I know. Still don't like it.
- Camera Ergonomics Out of the Box - Don't really like them. LCD is a pain in my ass.
- No PL mount - Spoiled, I want the option to shoot with PL Mount anamorphics for fun projects
- 30P - Convert, sure. For inserts it's fine for me, anything more is a pain. No thanks. I'd rather deal with One Step NeoScene Pulldown from AVCHD Material and take the 1080 hit. Or drop 720/60 on a timeline. It's close enough to 24P look for me, personally.
- Jello - This thing's way too jello-fied for me. GH-1 and RED are prime examples of how it should be controlled.

Those are enough to put it on the chopping block after these two projects. Only way I'd end up keeping it is a strand of work requests for it. If it's a requested tool then I generally won't say no. Gotta pay for the feature somehow.

Anyway, don't take it as complaining. I've already solved my problem by keeping the packaging in pristine condition so I can sell it off. But you asked, so I gave ya reasons.

If you want the best 1080 it's the MKii. Consistently proves that it's H264 as far as pixel peeping goes is stout and true. I'm more concerned with being able to use the camera myself, but everyone's different and that's a great thing.

Sheppy52
06-17-2009, 10:34 PM
Thanks for the reply. I'm still leaning toward the GH1.

cheers

AdrianF
06-18-2009, 01:59 AM
What exactly is so special about this vid?

Most of the frame is out of focus, so you don't get see the aliasing

PappasArts
06-18-2009, 02:30 AM
- Full Frame - Don't really like it. Too Wide, too Shallow. Stop down, I know. Still don't like it.



Bugs me too!

I have shot on all large formats; however when it turns to motion, something isn't right about FF for motion vs still. Great example is in those RED vs MKII tests. The MKII just is kinda sucky looking in those test vs the red when FOV is concerned. It's just to damn wide. Then the RED ( basically S35 ) shots with the same 17mm look just right. I dunno know about RED wanting go FF . I now think for narrative, they should stay S35mm size sensor. That's why the GH1 ( close to APS-C ) is in my opinion; a nice size. That or APS-C is fine. Anythings better than that shi*ty 1/3+2/3 look..........


Kholi are you going to order a GH1 USA version? To me this seems much more fun to grab and run than the MKII.



-One Step NeoScene Pulldown from AVCHD Material and take the 1080 hit.


Does NeoScene work with MAC? What do you mean "" take the 1080 hit ""?



.

AdrianF
06-18-2009, 03:02 AM
I now think for narrative, they should stay S35mm size sensor. That's why the GH1 ( close to APS-C ) is in my opinion; a nice size. That or APS-C is fine. anythings better than that shi*ty 1/3+2/3 look..........

That's maybe true, but looking at the clip that the OP posted, going FF for razor thin DOF, does seem like a good choice in those situations, probably the right one for the original brief. For this and ultra low light situations, the 5D and in the future FF RED, probably will become the standard. As for the subtle differences in the aesthetics of the images the 2 cameras produce, I'm leaning towards the GH1, as being more to my taste and some of that may be to do with it being close to a format I'm used to seeing for film.

pailes
06-18-2009, 03:44 AM
http://vimeo.com/5000009

All I see is rolling shutter issues ;)

PappasArts
06-18-2009, 12:14 PM
All I see is rolling shutter issues ;)

Until Global, that's just how it is. Some more , some much less!