What cameras compare to the HPX170?

[davidnssbm]

Long time DVX user here (since it's release in 2002), and I skipped the first generation of HD cameras to let the kinks get worked out. It was fine because I quit freelancing to go to film school but now I'm back in the business world and I feel my DVX is adequate, yet obsolete, and I worry I entered the industry at the wrong time now.

Scarlet is apparently being "released" some time this year, so part of me wants to wait for that. But the other half knows I need something now and this whole Red thing might be hype anyways. My research has lead me to the HVX/HPX. I have alot of respect for Panasonic. Both my DVXs have done me wonders.

The P2 card intrigues the hell out of me, and I would love to leave tapes behind, but it seems pointless unless you have 2 cards and they are just so damn expensive.

So my question is, what are some fair cameras in the price rage that can compete with the HPX170? I've scoured google and all I get is HVX200 vs HPX170.

Is there anything coming soon that I should be weary of? Or is it safe to indulge in the HPX170?

Sorry for the redundancy of my post, I'm sure you've heard it all, but I couldn't find any recent posts like this.

It's just, I feel that at any moment a new camera is gonna be announced to compete with the scarlet or the HPX.

[Richard J. Johnson]

Who the hell knows when the Scarlet is coming out. I would not wait for it if you need a cam. It is totally safe to grab a 170. It is an amazing camera. But there are plenty of other alternatives from Sony, Canon, and Panasonic as well. You just have to find one, research it and see if it fits your needs.

And P2 cards are not that expensive any more. There is a new series out that cost much less operate the exact same way.(E series) And once you go P2 you will NEVER go back to tape.

Hell, THe original HVX200 is still a killer cam.

[Jay Rodriguez]

I second everything he said....

[Jimmy Moss]

I get a lot of business just based on the fact that I own an HVX200a. Lots ask specifically for that camera and others it lets me close the deal because I can bring that cam to the table. So you can say that the HVX reputation and wide use is legendary, and in this biz sometimes buzz is all you need.

I can't say that about any other cameras I have (XH-A1) and I never see any jobs requesting specifically a EX1/3 or GH1 or whatever. This is Nashville but just a tip.

[Barry_Green]

And an excellent tip. If it's rental business that you're looking for, find out what people are requesting in your area. If they want a 200A, there's no point arguing with them about why you think your 170 or EX3 or whatever are better; give 'em what they want.

[Jimmy Moss]

Thats a good point too. I rent out my HVX200a also which makes some pretty good money. I can afford to undercut the local rental houses by $50 to $100 and throw in some stuff like tripod and monitor. Gets me exposure and a little cash.

[davidnssbm]

But as a buyer in this uncertain market, should I be worried about a new panny anouncement any time soon? Or any other camera to compete with the HPX170? Because right now I'm getting that the HPX170 is quick, easy and versatile like the DVX, perfect for my type of shooting.

[Ted Spencer]

Things change *much* more slowly in the professional equipment marketplace. They sell a tiny fraction of the number of units compared to the consumer market. So I wouldn't be holding my breath for a new HPX170 superceder from Panny. Might happen, might not, but likely not for a while IMHO, given the recent-ness of the 170. Remember too that they've been continuing to sell DVX100s for many, many years now...

[groveChuck]

I'm in the same situation as the OP, only with a 2.5 yr old DVX100B.
I too skipped early HD cameras, but have I to the point where DVCPRO HD is semi-obsolete???

I've also had my eye on the 170, but have gotten seriously distracted by the 300 and the MkII.
All REALLY different cameras obviously, especially in form factor, but as we all know, also in image, codec, DoF and other factors.
I know between those three, it's a matter of research and test drives, and I hope to test soon.
And of course, if you go the 170 route, does that mean an adaptor is in my future, vs a MkII?

The 200 is VERY well known at this point, but I am surprised to hear Barry (any others?) say renters (possibly clients, too?) would request the 200 and may be unaware of the 170 being at least the 200s equal.

And I guess my last concern is the P2 newbies concern of not being able to "hand over the tape" on shoot only projects.
(I know, once you go tapeless, you never go back, but what IF a tape is requested???)

Perhaps I'm over concerned about that since the 200 only shoots DV to tape, and maybe i should keep my 100B for DV shoots and use the 170 for HD?
Although it would be nice to put the proceeds from the 100B sale towards a 170.

But I digress... sorry.
Anybody have any trouble convincing folks of the quality of the 170???
All posters so far have the 200A, any 170 folks out there?

thanks!
Chuck

[William_Robinette]

But as a buyer in this uncertain market, should I be worried about a new panny anouncement any time soon? Or any other camera to compete with the HPX170? Because right now I'm getting that the HPX170 is quick, easy and versatile like the DVX, perfect for my type of shooting.

If you need to shoot today then buy today. If you have a job that will cover the cost of the camera buy today.

If not then wait, there will always be a better camera on its way and when you do need to buy one, you will have the best options presented to you.

[NC17z]

And I guess my last concern is the P2 newbies concern of not being able to "hand over the tape" on shoot only projects.
(I know, once you go tapeless, you never go back, but what IF a tape is requested???)



Keep in mind that the HPX170 via a Firewire Cable, has the ability to be a master controller/Camera to a Mini-DV Camera or Deck for recording directly to Mini-DV TAPE and/or to Both P2 and Mini-DV Tape... This is always over looked, when the Tape thing is brought up with the HXV200 or 200a. I bought two Mini-DV Cams for less than $100 bucks, one for Sony Tapes and one for Panasonic Tapes.

[3rdfloorfilms]

Curious which mini-dv cams you got. Want to do the same thing, and would rather choose one that has a good track record with it.

[groveChuck]

Keep in mind that the HPX170 via a Firewire Cable, has the ability to be a master controller/Camera to a Mini-DV Camera or Deck for recording directly to Mini-DV TAPE and/or to Both P2 and Mini-DV Tape... This is always over looked, when the Tape thing is brought up with the HXV200 or 200a. I bought two Mini-DV Cams for less than $100 bucks, one for Sony Tapes and one for Panasonic Tapes.

Great tip!
Thanks.

And do you have the 2 camera/recorders for the wet/dry tapes because clients specifically request Sony or Panny tape?

And I'm still wondering if people (clients/renters) don't consider the 170 to be the equal of the 200.

*** That is, if they ask for a 200, would they refuse a 170??? ***

Thanks!

[TigerFX]

Also check out Panasonic's HMC-150. It's essentially the same camera as the HPX-170 except SD cards instead of P2 (AVCHD) and no Firewire port, for a bit less $$$.

[davidnssbm]

the firewire port is very important to me because of the idea to transfer via firewire to a cheap camera.

It seems HPX170 is right for me, but I'm going to keep researching. Now I'm having problems finding a good deal on the 170, though I guess it's only been out a year.

[3rdfloorfilms]

Also check out Panasonic's HMC-150. It's essentially the same camera as the HPX-170 except SD cards instead of P2 (AVCHD) and no Firewire port, for a bit less $$$.

...and 4:2:0 color space. Which I've used, and liked it, but would rather have the 4:2:2.

And do you have the 2 camera/recorders for the wet/dry tapes because clients specifically request Sony or Panny tape?

And I'm still wondering if people (clients/renters) don't consider the 170 to be the equal of the 200.

*** That is, if they ask for a 200, would they refuse a 170??? ***

Gotten a few jobs from people looking for 200. They usually don't know of the 170, or don't remember the model #.

[Jan_Crittenden]

Also check out Panasonic's HMC-150. It's essentially the same camera as the HPX-170 except SD cards instead of P2 (AVCHD) and no Firewire port, for a bit less $$$.

Hi,

The picture may be equal but the compression engine is not in the same ball park. This is why the HMC150 is less expensive than the HPX170. Keep in mind DVCPRO HD up until December of 2005 was only available on a $65,000 Varicam. The AVCHD codec is for the masses and has never been used at that level. That said it sure beats HDV.

I am fond of saying these days that if DVCPRO HD was good enough for Planet Earth, it is still a strong contender for a great many projects to come. ;-)

Best,

Jan

[groveChuck]

I too would rather avoid AVCHD, and definitely would prefer 4:2:2 and the ability to under/overcrank.
Though the 150 does seem to be a pretty good camera for the money.
Shame you can't get DVCPRO HD on an SD card though.




And I'm still wondering if people (clients/renters) don't consider the 170 to be the equal of the 200.

*** That is, if they ask for a 200, would they refuse a 170??? ***

Gotten a few jobs from people looking for 200. They usually don't know of the 170, or don't remember the model #.

Thanks 3rdfloor

David, hope I'm not hijacking your thread, it seems we're asking similar things!

[3rdfloorfilms]

I too would rather avoid AVCHD, and definitely would prefer 4:2:2 and the ability to under/overcrank.
Though the 150 does seem to be a pretty good camera for the money.
Shame you can't get DVCPRO HD on an SD card though.



Thanks 3rdfloor

David, hope I'm not hijacking your thread, it seems we're asking similar things!

Been using the Under/Overcrank more recently, and when compared to having to do it all in post, it looks awesome. Even using Motion or Shake, it still looks better in cam.

[skipioafricanus]

Keep in mind that the HPX170 via a Firewire Cable, has the ability to be a master controller/Camera to a Mini-DV Camera or Deck for recording directly to Mini-DV TAPE and/or to Both P2 and Mini-DV Tape... This is always over looked, when the Tape thing is brought up with the HXV200 or 200a. I bought two Mini-DV Cams for less than $100 bucks, one for Sony Tapes and one for Panasonic Tapes.
This definitely appears to be a good feature.
What format is actually recorded to the tape in the small camcorder? Is it HD or SD? The reason I am asking is because I thought the 200 and 200a does not record HD to the tape. HD is only recorded to the P2 Card.

Can someone clarify?

Thanks!
SKIP

[NC17z]

Also check out Panasonic's HMC-150. It's essentially the same camera as the HPX-170 except SD cards instead of P2 (AVCHD) and no Firewire port, for a bit less $$$.

NOT!
Someone please explain that the HMC150 is not essentially the same camera... It doesn't have half the features that the HPX has...

[NC17z]

This definitely appears to be a good feature.
What format is actually recorded to the tape in the small camcorder? Is it HD or SD? The reason I am asking is because I thought the 200 and 200a does not record HD to the tape. HD is only recorded to the P2 Card.

Can someone clarify?

Thanks!
SKIP


DV Codec... not HD... This would be the equivilent to every other DV Camcorder - AG-DVX100, a, b... HVX200, a,...

[NC17z]

Great tip!
Thanks.

And do you have the 2 camera/recorders for the wet/dry tapes because clients specifically request Sony or Panny tape?

And I'm still wondering if people (clients/renters) don't consider the 170 to be the equal of the 200.

*** That is, if they ask for a 200, would they refuse a 170??? ***

Thanks!


YES, That is exactly why. I am contracted by a company in the tri-state area that requests Sony DV- Tapes...

I wouldn't dare put a Sony Tape in one of my Panasonic Cameras, so I picked up a few decks at a Pawn Shop.

[groveChuck]

Thanks!