Alternative Fast Primes: Voigtländer (made alongside Carl Zeiss SLR lenses)

[Steve Castle]

Some suggestions for some fast MF primes that will fit µ4/3rds cameras like the Panasonic GH1...

Voigtländer has a selection of fast primes (and some very fast primes like the F/1.1) that are relatively affordable that can be mounted on µ4/3rds camera via the Leica M-mount adapter.

These lenses are made by Cosina, the same company that makes the beautiful SLR lenses for Carl Zeiss for Nikon (ZF), Pentax (ZK), Canon EOS (ZE), and M42 screw mounts (ZS).

Keep in mind that the µ4/3rds camera has a 2.0x crop factor, so for instance, a 40mm lens will have an equivalent of around a 50mm lens on a D90 or Rebel (1.5-1.6x crop), and an 80mm lens on a 5DII (1.0x crop).


Alternative fast primes:
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo13/steve_castle/28f2.jpghttp://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo13/steve_castle/40-14.jpghttp://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo13/steve_castle/n-35-14.jpghttp://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo13/steve_castle/3512top.jpghttp://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo13/steve_castle/vm50.jpg

Adapter:
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo13/steve_castle/mft.jpg

[SonicStates]

From pictures I've seen that 40mm looks pretty nice. At 1.4 I think it is going to be my friend for lower light stuff. Thanks for posting this Steve. I really appreciate it.
Cheers

[Jackson Miller]

So these are 35mm lenses?

Approximate price ranges please? 100 bucks? 200? 500?

[Steve Castle]

So these are 35mm lenses?

Approximate price ranges please? 100 bucks? 200? 500?

These lenses are originally built for Leica M rangefinders; so they are full-frame lenses.

The price-range varies between lenses:
Nokton Classic 40mm f/1.4 ~$379.00 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/355977-REG/Voigtlander_45BA246B_Nokton_40mm_f_1_4_M_Mount.htm l)
Nokton Classic 35mm f/1.4 ~$529.00 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/543261-REG/Voigtlander_BA243B_Nokton_35mm_f_1_4_Aspherical.ht ml)
Ultron 28mm f/2 ~$559 (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/Ultron%2028mm%20f/2.0)

The super-fast F/1.1 and F/1.2 are on the expensive side:
Nokton 35mm f/1.2 is $899 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/288040-REG/Voigtlander_45BA236B_Nokton_35mm_f_1_2_Aspherical. html)
Nokon 50mm F/1.1 is still very new, its suppose to cost around $1,100/€1000

Those two fast lenses are a fair price when you consider a Canon 50mm f/1.2 is around ~$1,400 and a 85mm f/1.2 is $1,850. There are also Leica lenses like the 21mm f/1.4 and 35mm f/1.4 but they range in price between $4k-$6k.

[Steve Castle]

I should mention, my main point in recommending these lenses is that most people are probably used to using 50-80mm primes. A 50mm lens on an APS-C sized camera is 75-80mms. However, using a 50mm prime on µ4/3rds camera will result in 100mm equivalency which may be a tad too long for most people.

The problem is that the higher quality Nikon and Canon wide primes can be relatively expensive. The Canon EF 35mm 1.4L is a $1,200+ lens and even the older Nikon 35mm 1.4AIS lenses go for above $800. The Panasonic Leica Summilux-D 25 f/1.4 is also a ~$800 lens.

The cheapest alternative is to go with the Sigma f/1.8s that range between 20mm to 28mms; which cost around $300~600. There is also the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 that is cheap but it has no aperture ring so it may be unsuitable for most GH1 users. Once you are willing to go down to f/2.8 there are a bunch of nice cheap primes, and f/2.8 is good enough for most situations, but having that one really fast prime for your arsenal can be very useful.

Once Panasonic releases the 20mm f/1.7 that may be the lens to go for, but we still don't have a release date.

[Martti Ekstrand]

The Voightlanders indeed look like a very good option for new lenses and it's a pity they don't have any wider Ultron than 28mm. If I get any paying gigs with the GH1 I might pick up that 28. Here's the link to Voigtlander's German lens page: http://voigtlander.de/cms/voigtlaender/voigtlaender_cms.nsf/id/pa_asan6m4e2e.html

For comparison I got hold of a second hand Canon FD 20mm f/2.8 for $175, a 35mm f/2.0 for $115 and a 50mm f/1.4 for $155 (plus VAT) here in Sweden and bet they can be found for less in US. Most US people selling lenses on eBay don't want to ship to Europe though.

As Canon EF lenses lack aperture rings they will stay wide open on GH1 with the passive adapter mounts currently available. I think the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 is available as a 4/3 lens and aperture can be controlled with Panasonic's 4/3 to m4/3 adapter.

[Dalton Boettcher]

Thanks for posting this. I'm looking for some fast primes at 24/28mm, 35mm, and 50mm. Debating between these or some used Canon FDs or Nikons on ebay.

For those interested, an adapter for these Voigtlander lenses can be found at cameraquest (http://www.cameraquest.com/adp_micro_43.htm) for $149.

[Ben_B]

Debating between these or some used Canon FDs or Nikons on ebay.


If you have the money, get these, leave the used Canon FDs and Nikon AIs for us poor, poor people/students.

[J Davis]

Thanks for posting this, these lenses look great, especially the 1.4's at 35mm and 40mm.

I really like shooting with my FD 35mm on the GH1, not found a 40mm to try yet.
Would love for someone to make a fast wide zoom around the 28-50mm range – would be ideal for 4/3 sensor GH1 users.

[J Davis]

Some links to these Voigtlander lenses at B&H

40mm f1.4 LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/355977-REG/Voigtlander_45BA246B_Nokton_40mm_f_1_4_M_Mount.htm l)
35mm f1.4 LINK (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/543261-REG/Voigtlander_BA243B_Nokton_35mm_f_1_4_Aspherical.ht ml)

[theprophe]

Just so you guys know, there has been smearing in the corners with rangefinder lenses, generally under 35mm, the wider, the worse it gets

[Dalton Boettcher]

Just so you guys know, there has been smearing in the corners with rangefinder lenses, generally under 35mm, the wider, the worse it gets
Wouldn't the GH1s 2x crop factor help avoid/reduce problems in the corners of full frame lenses?

[Dalton Boettcher]

If you have the money, get these, leave the used Canon FDs and Nikon AIs for us poor, poor people/students.
:laugh: Well I'm kinda in that poor people/students category. I do have a couple weddings lined up, however, so I'm debating pulling the trigger on these lenses. Anyone have any ideas about the improvement in quality one would see jumping from used Canon FDs and Nikons to these new Voigtlanders?

[theprophe]

Apparently, the problem is the lens is too close to the sensor, so the light doesnt hit the edges of the sensor at perpendicular angles. They are talking about it on www.getdpi.com and on sean reids reviews (pay site)

[Kevin I]

Just so you guys know, there has been smearing in the corners with rangefinder lenses, generally under 35mm, the wider, the worse it gets

True. Rangefinder cameras don't have mirror boxes and so the wideangle lenses do not have to be retrofocus designs to clear the mirror like they do for SLRs -- meaning the back of the lens can be very, very close to the film. This always meant that rangefinder wide angle lenses could be smaller and generally sharper than SLR wide angles.

But this also means that the light hits the film at a very acute angle, which was never a problem for film, but is a big problem for digital sensors... usually resulting in smeared corners and chromatic abberations.

[Kevin I]

Oh, and with non-retrofocus lenses, the wider you go the closer the back of the lens gets to the film -- which exacerbates the problem even more. Here's a page with some good photos of the backs of wide angle rangefinder lenses: http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/RF-Nikkor/RF21mm/index.htm

[J Davis]

Apparently, the problem is the lens is too close to the sensor, so the light doesnt hit the edges of the sensor at perpendicular angles. They are talking about it on www.getdpi.com (http://www.getdpi.com) and on sean reids reviews (pay site)

Good info, good looking out, thanks !

[Dalton Boettcher]

Apparently, the problem is the lens is too close to the sensor, so the light doesnt hit the edges of the sensor at perpendicular angles. They are talking about it on www.getdpi.com (http://www.getdpi.com) and on sean reids reviews (pay site)
Wow. Yeah thanks for the info prophe!

[yslee]

Hi Steve! I remember talking with you about lenses and different camera form factors a couple of months back. Nice to see you recommending the Voigtlanders; they're very nice lenses and rival CZ and Leica lenses for a fraction of the price (somewhat ironic now they're making lenses for CZ).

While the RF lenses will have a problem with corners for digital, I think the interesting lenses for m4/3s are in the 35-75mm range. The wider ones aren't particularly fast, and thanks to the 2x crop factor don't yield very interesting field of view. I think the Panasonic 20/1.7 when out will help with that area quite a bit.

The main lack right now is in the wide angle territory. Mainly something a lens wider than 14mm; something in the 8mm to 10mm area. There's the 7-14/4 but I'm not too keen on another wide angle zoom, and an expensive one at that. Where's that 10/2.8?

[Steve Castle]

Apparently, the problem is the lens is too close to the sensor, so the light doesnt hit the edges of the sensor at perpendicular angles. They are talking about it on www.getdpi.com (http://www.getdpi.com) and on sean reids reviews (pay site)


True. Rangefinder cameras don't have mirror boxes and so the wideangle lenses do not have to be retrofocus designs to clear the mirror like they do for SLRs -- meaning the back of the lens can be very, very close to the film. This always meant that rangefinder wide angle lenses could be smaller and generally sharper than SLR wide angles.

But this also means that the light hits the film at a very acute angle, which was never a problem for film, but is a big problem for digital sensors... usually resulting in smeared corners and chromatic abberations.

These are inherit design issues related to lenses with short focal flange distances (FFD), but let's keep in mind that inherently all µ4/3rds lenses are even closer to the sensor then these Leica M-mounts; being that µ4/3rds lenses have an FFD of 20mms and Leica Ms have FFD of of 28mms. From a one-dimensional logic, µ4/3rds should have much worse smearing and chromatic aberrations(CA) then any of the rangefinder lenses. But it is specious logic to automatically think rangefinder/µ4/3rds lenses will have smearing and CA.

As you've seen smearing, CA, etc have not been an issue with any of the lenses in question. Even the GH1's stock 14-140mm have gotten overall positive impressions (and this is a lens mind you with a mere 20mms between lens and sensor). Relative to context of modern lens design, those old rangefinder deficiencies are not any issue with modern glass (with the possible exception of the 'classic' lenses I've mentioned in the OP). There are also obvious deficiencies and design considerations that need to be made for wide-angle lenses on SLRs, yet in the modern context, those lenses too are extraordinary good.

In fact, there are plenty of examples of photographs taken with these lenses on digital sensors on places like Flickr where you can judge for yourself.


Hi Steve! I remember talking with you about lenses and different camera form factors a couple of months back. Nice to see you recommending the Voigtlanders; they're very nice lenses and rival CZ and Leica lenses for a fraction of the price (somewhat ironic now they're making lenses for CZ).

While the RF lenses will have a problem with corners for digital, I think the interesting lenses for m4/3s are in the 35-75mm range. The wider ones aren't particularly fast, and thanks to the 2x crop factor don't yield very interesting field of view. I think the Panasonic 20/1.7 when out will help with that area quite a bit.

The main lack right now is in the wide angle territory. Mainly something a lens wider than 14mm; something in the 8mm to 10mm area. There's the 7-14/4 but I'm not too keen on another wide angle zoom, and an expensive one at that. Where's that 10/2.8?

Panasonic 20/1.7 is definitely the lens to wait for. However, we have yet to encounter a release date. I think we'll see a 14mm µ4/3rds prime from Oly/Panasonic within the next few years.

[yslee]

I suppose 14 might be wide enough for video, but for stills I still want my 10/2.8...