Viewing and Editing PAL AVCHD

[nathankw]

I've just got my UK PAL GH1. (I'll post some tests once I've had a chance to play with it a bit).

However, I'm struggling a bit to find a workable way of editing or even viewing the AVCHD files. I thought the included panasonic software was supposed to view movie files but it doesn't even seem to recognise them. Am I missing something obvious?

I imagine the best way to handle these files is to transcode them into a more useable codec. There seem to be quite a few threads on how to do this for NTSC files (with pull down and all). For PAL it presumably should be much simpler.

Is there a simple (and ideally) free way of doing this. Be great to automate it as much as possible (ie be able to take a folder of MTS files and convert them all to a better codec.) What codec would be the best balance of file size / quality / ease of use?

I'm on windows by the way and will mostly be shooing 720/50p.

[Joe Shaw]

Simple - but not free - would be Edius Neo. There is a free converter for it that will conert the AVCHD to Canopus HQ, which is a fantastic codec. There is a free demo of Neo I think, so you could try it for 30 days and see for yourself.

[nathankw]

I'd rather not buy another editing package (I have a few already!)
Is it possible to use the free converter without Edius?

It seems like avisynth ought to be able to do the job but all the scripts I've seen on the forums are based on 60i pulldown. Any UK based avisynth experts out there?

[Joe Shaw]

I think you have to be a registered user to download the converter - but if you don't use Edius, having a Canopus HQ file may not be as useful. Maybe you should look at Cineform NeoScene? I don't know of a free solution at the moment. VirtualDub might have something, but I haven't seen it yet.

[Martti Ekstrand]

If you have Premiere people here has reported that the latest update handles AVCHD. I'm on OSX and VoltaicHD converter works well albeit a bit slow, it's available for Windows. Otherwise the next step up in converters is Cineform which I plan to get once I get the GH1. Both are in stickies on top here. It's a bit strange though because according to the info here you should have the PC only software PHOTOfunSTUDIO 3.1 HD Edition included with the cam.

http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/gh1/creative.html#includedsoftware


AVCHD movies can be transferred to a PC from an SDHC/SD Memory Card or via the USB cable to view or even edit them.

[nathankw]

The editing software I have (Serif Movieplus X3) does handle AVCHD but it's not very useable (plus I want to be able to load the files into other software like blender), so I think the best option is conversion to a easier to use codec.

I'm sure there is a freeware way of doing it but I'm not very experiences with FFMPEG / avisynth scripting etc.

I do have the PHOTOfunSTUDIO software which should be able to view and trim AVCHD, but I can't get it to work. I'll give it another go this evening, but when I look at the card it only recognises the photos. Also, as far as I know you can do basic trimming with it but can't transcode to another codec.

[timbook2]

I am also looking for a solution to transcode AVCHD PAL on OSX to some QT format.

[Isaac_Brody]

Two workable options, VoltaicHD and Neoscene. Voltaic is the cheaper of the two at 35 bucks. I'm using it to transcode PAL footage and remove pulldown with NTSC clips.

[von Mutius]

A very good and free tool for me is avanti, a simple toolset that lets you convert to lots of different codecs of choice. I use it for Canon MKII and let it batch everxthing to MPG2 150mbit. You can choose to embed audio or make waves. You can also decide to make 25fps out of 30fps by the way..
http://forum.videohelp.com/topic343287.html

ciao Matthias

[AdrianF]

I am also looking for a solution to transcode AVCHD PAL on OSX to some QT format.
As well as Voltaic and Cineform, there is of course iMovie, FCE, FCP etc.

[ROne]

I hate to be pushy but Edius (Neo) is a great piece of software.

Almost all of your AVCHD editing problems will go away with it. The way it handles different formats is fantastic.

You can drag n' drop AVCHD files into what ever timeline you want - or as mentioned transcode with the free transcoder.

It's about £99 for the Neo version I believe.

Workflow: 720p/50 with 1/50 shutter for the GH1 - then make your project 1280x720/25 in edius (if you want 25p) - drop the converted footage straight in. Perfect editing.

[nathankw]

Thanks for the Avanti tip. Looks like it might be just what I'm after. It seems to be able to read the MTS files no problem - I need to play with the output options to see what works best.

Edius is tempting. I'll see how much money I have left once I've paid for the GH1 and bought all the accessories I need.

[ydgmdlu]

The problem that I see with AVANTI is that it might not output to a suitable intermediate codec since, after all, it's a front end for FFmpeg. If you do use it, don't output to an interframe codec like MPEG-2. Use something like MJPEG at a very high bitrate.

I'll take a look at my AviSynth script and make a modification for you. I'll post it later today.

[TrueIndigo]

I imported some GH1 mts files to Vegas Pro and dropped them on the timeline, but it does not work. The files seem to just be a sound file or something, though there's no sound and no picture. I have Vegas Pro 8.0b and the format drop-down box includes mts, so why doesn't it work? I know I can't play the files in realtime (the computer is a 3.0 Ghz P4), but I wanted to export certain still frames to examine them in Photoshop. I have never worked with AVCHD files before so I don't know what to expect.

I'm looking for a good video utility to make a copy for editing (an off-line) and possibly still sequences (on-line). One I heard about was AVS Video Converter (haven't tried it yet, anyone used it?).

[timbook2]

As well as Voltaic and Cineform, there is of course iMovie, FCE, FCP etc.

I want to convert from a folder not by attaching the camera to FCP and do logging. I have several cards and need to copy them while the other continues.

So for now I guess Voltaic is my only choice even though they seem to be based on ffmpeg. I tried handbrake, it works, slowly and creates strange AVC files, not apple intermediate codec or better ProRes ( which is what I want) but it works. Of course FCP will transcode it another time :-(

As Barry said ABA anything but apple :crybaby:

I love being with my toes on the edge of technology :Drogar-Love(DBG):

updating imovie now...

[nathankw]

I'll take a look at my AviSynth script and make a modification for you. I'll post it later today.

Thanks - that would be great.
My dream script would be one that will take all the files on a card (which should always be in the same directory with the same filenames) and transcode them all.

[von Mutius]

You need no script for this because avanti has a batch modul where you set once path and compression system and then it does convert all files, one after the other, it basicly keeps the orignal file names just as m2v or avi or mov.

I think doing 150 mbit MPEG2 IBP variable framerate and dualpass encoding is about the same quality as uncompressed I-Frame only. I edit with AVID LIQUID CHROME and there I have a lot of realtime power with those files. BTW with Avanti I can also change a 30fps clip to 25fps. It creates a new clip that plays as 80% slowmotion for PAL or I can let Avanti make 25fps rightaway....
A clip I did for a friend: http://vimeo.com/4928024

It is a mixture of 5dmkII(30fps) HDV-FX1 with a Letus(50i) and SONY XDCAM HD 330 25p and 50i

ciao Matthias:)

[Osslund]

I'm working on an Avid workflow in this manner:

AVCHD SDHC-card struktur->Mainconcept AVCHD to DVCPRO HD conversion -> MXF renaming -> Copy to Avid new Avid Media Files MXF folder -> Use Media tool to drap n drop to bin.

It's a speedy process and you can edit in RT in Avid after this.

[Martti Ekstrand]

I assume you know that DVCPRO HD is a anamorphic (or rather uses rectangular pixels) format so it is 960x720 and 1280x1080 - 59.94i / 1440x1080 - 1080/50i. By using that format you lower the horizontal resolution rather substantially.

[Osslund]

Yes it's one way to do it. Struggled last night to get a workable flow for Avid and this does work and once in the MXF-container it's so easy to copy into Avid Media files and work in realtime.

Tried doing native conversion to different codecs but it was much slower and reduces image quality even more than DVCPRO. Uncompressed is just to heavy and a waste. Avid codecs introduced some artifacts also. But this is just one way, I'll try others along the way.

I'm a pro Avid editor and have over the last 12 years worked on other systems with mixed feelings. It's my firm believe that once material is in the Avid filesystem is a very pleasant system and works in realtime. Even on most laptops.

[Martti Ekstrand]

I want to convert from a folder not by attaching the camera to FCP and do logging. I have several cards and need to copy them while the other continues.

So for now I guess Voltaic is my only choice even though they seem to be based on ffmpeg..

Toast 10 converts AVCHD .mts files to any QuickTime codec you have installed and is pretty fast compared to Voltaic. Also unlike any other option I've found the frame rate can be set to 25 (or 29.97) thereby reducing the converted file size by half. Then just go back and redo those you see you want to do slo-mo on when editing. Just beware it has a tendency to make a few freeze frames of the first frame so you need to slip audio the same amount on the timeline. Oh, it plays previews without glitches or frame drops with a included video player which can be used as stand-alone and works much better than VLC.

[nathankw]

You need no script for this because avanti has a batch modul where you set once path and compression system and then it does convert all files, one after the other, it basicly keeps the orignal file names just as m2v or avi or mov.


Avanti sounds like it should be the perfect (free) solution, but I'm having real problems getting it to work. I can't get the batch mode to work - I'm having to load each file in separately. Maybe I'm being dumb:Drogar-Angry(DBG):
A bit of a step by step guide would really help.

I'm also finding that depending on the codec I use the resulting files won't play. For instance when I make mjpeg (either AVI or MOV) it all seems to work fine but the resulting file is unplayable. The only format I've got to work reliably is mpeg2 in .mpg format. Any tips much appreciated.

Nice film by the way.

[von Mutius]

Hi there, well the first step will be to click on the 123 symbol which opens the job control where you can choose all files to be batched, then as always in avanti press F1 and read the help file ;-) or set your destination path by right clicking in the fields as well as choosing a template. These templates can be from the standard list or you can create your own by setting one in the normal avanti interface. Next in the job control manager save your joblist and hit the process job button. The system will start working....
Because my preferred file system for Avid Chrome is m2v and wav I like avanti very much. I set it to 100.000 kbits and max rate 150.000kbit with a buffer size of 4650. I choose 2-pass encoding and everything else same as source except of Framerate which depends on the fact whether I have important sync sound or not.
with sync I do 25fps without I choose 30fps and change the file to 25fps later letting it be a 80% slowmotion. this can be done with the avanti MPEG/AVI Tool where I use the PAL Re-Flag Tool. Only problem here. this does not work as batch process, or I am to stupid to make a setting for the batch mode...

Ciao Matthias

[nathankw]

After playing around with various options I think I've got a workflow that works (for me anyway). I just couldn't get avanti to work very well, so I decided to go down the avisynth/virtualdub route.

I followed the advice on this thread -
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=171230


It looked a bit daunting but the instructions are very clear. I wasn't sure how to remove the 3:2 pulldown step (not needed for PAL models) so I just changed the number in the line "(width^(v_in^)==1920^)" .
By changing 1920 to 9999 it ensured that step was never activated. Not pretty I know but seems to work!

The result is great. I've done two batch files - one that goes to the right directory on the card and converts all the files there, putting the resulting files on my hard drive (for when I want to transcode the whole card). Another that will just take MTS files in the current directory and convert those (for when I just want to look at a few files).

I could post them up if anyone is interested in them but you're best off following the instructions since they need to be slightly tailored.

I've set virtualdub to use FFMPEG to reencode, so I can set my codec in virtualdub.
I've had best results going to MJPEG with quantisation set to 1. Seems to have very little loss in quality but will play back easily and I can edit them in real time.

This is all trial and error (rather than based on any deep understanding) so I'd be interested in any comments.