PDA

View Full Version : GH-1/HVX200/HMC150/5D Markii (Best Image + Versatility)



tackleqb
06-04-2009, 10:46 PM
Okay so I know I am going to get a lot of nasty replies to this so try and keep it clean and informative. My question is what overall produces the best image quality out of the four cameras. The ratings are based on color, sharpness, clarity, and movie-like image (because that is basically what I am going to using it for). From what I have read on most of these forums and based on their codecs, CCD resolutions, and sensor sizes I have came up with a list from 1-4, 1 being the best and 4 being last. (I am hoping some of you move the GH-1 to first place because I am buying that camera but I am trying to be as realistic as possible:2vrolijk_08:)

IMAGE QUALITY

1. HMC150 (because it has a higher bit rate then GH-1)
2. 5D Markii
3. GH-1
4. HVX200

Now just to clarify I am rating these by Image Quality NOT versatility. The next category is Versatility. I am basing this on user options (ie. variable frame rates, selectable FPS etc.), low light capabilities, manual controls, etc. I came up with a list base on what I have read.

VERSATILITY

1. HVX200
2. HMC150
3. GH-1
4. 5D Markii

Okay please everyone try and be polite as possible because it does get a little nasty in here at times! Thanks and LET THE RATINGS BEGIN :)

John Caballero
06-04-2009, 10:52 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzz

tackleqb
06-04-2009, 11:01 PM
again. I meant for people to be polite

John Caballero
06-04-2009, 11:04 PM
Oops. Well I personally think the debate is between the DSLRs. I have an HVX 200 and love it, but I'll be resting for a long while after I get my GH1. Between the Mark ll and GH1 my choice is GH1.

If the HVX 200 had the 4/3s sensor with interchangeable lenses it would be awesome. For me it would be a kller cam.

squig
06-04-2009, 11:06 PM
nasty! hehe you should spend some time in the D90 dungeon now that's nasty.

personally I haven't shot with any of them yet so I'll leave it up to the experts to comment erm John! normally you can't shut him up!

tackleqb
06-04-2009, 11:08 PM
HVX200 has way to much noise, I barley even consider it HD cause the resolution is to low and low-light is atrocious, which is why i just sold it. I bet you bottom dollar the DSLR's will beat HVX200 in image quality but then again people wont rate these cameras much cause no one wants to step on anyones toes. however HVX200 has 10 times as many functions as the DSLR's.

John Caballero
06-04-2009, 11:12 PM
I never had a problem with noise with my HVX 200, never. Did you own one? All that talk of noise is nonsense. If you really know how to use it properly it is absolutely no problem. I am talking from my own experience. And the image, great looking. Again, if you know how to shoot professionally.


personally I haven't shot with any of them yet so I'll leave it up to the experts to comment erm John! normally you can't shut him up!

Thanks for the promo squig! LOL.

Daniel L.
06-04-2009, 11:13 PM
This thread is going to be a disaster... It's already starting. Whats the point? All of this has been covered a hundred times by now.

John Caballero
06-04-2009, 11:17 PM
Nah, I'll be fine. Some more drama is Ok. Let's just don't throw nasty looking "mud". Oh! mud!

tackleqb
06-04-2009, 11:17 PM
Yes I know how to shoot professionally. But if you look at resolution, the numbers don't lie: 960 x 540. And yes I did have noise, even with my 1080 HDTV while shooting 1080 I had noise, especially in low light. But I am sure you have had the camera longer then I had so you have worked it out with some fine tuning. But I just don't see how you can say that there is NO noise with this camera (especially in low light) compared to others.

tackleqb
06-04-2009, 11:18 PM
Okay well I was just trying to get an Idea before I bought my GH-1 but I guess people can't handle it. Oh well

John Caballero
06-04-2009, 11:19 PM
tacklegb its Ok. My next cam is the GH1. HVX is so last year anyway. I think is going to be pretty good. I hope!

tackleqb
06-04-2009, 11:21 PM
BTW if you could direct me to the forum were these cameras are rated against each-other, go ahead and send me a link Daniel! Thanks, your right I'd rather not start a whole bunch of drama ugh!

tackleqb
06-04-2009, 11:23 PM
okay John, I am not trying to be mean, I just thought we could have an intelligent (non-argumentative) conversation. I respect you as a filmmaker/artist and I am sure your work is superior to mine. The problem with the market now is these cameras just upgrade in quality so fast it is hard to keep up and I think we both can attest to that.

Nighthawk
06-04-2009, 11:39 PM
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/picture.php?albumid=137&pictureid=1130

All I know is that I'm not as happy with the MKii as I am the GH-1. And I'm sad that this little bad-ass in the center has found a new home.

Here's the pros and cons list again:


GH-1

Pros:

- 1080/24P, 720/60P, 720/30P
* Slow Mo in Post is easier, direct
* 720/60P is robust
* MJPEG Option for instant access
- PAL Support
- 4/3" Sensor
* Vast coverage of lenses in every brand including Cinema Spec
* Easy Focus Pulling, Mark Hitting
- Small and Lightweight: Great for small rigs and setups
- Kit lens: 14-140 w/Silent Focus and OIS
* Automatic Features (great for doc, run-n-gun)
- Flip Out Rotatable LCD (great for run-n-gun)
- IN-Camera Crop Options
- Jello Control in Both 1080 and 720 controlled extremely well.
- Excellent Battery Consumption
* 2 Hours for recording.
* 1 Hour Charge Time for batteries
- No Overheating or intense heat output
- Lengthy Recording Times in all modes. Great for Events, etc.
- Quite cheap for the benefits that come with it.
* MSR: 1500.00 w/Kit Lens

Cons:

- 1080/24P not at its best -- enough of an image hit to warrant caution
* Contained in 60i which needs Pulldown
* Artifacts introduced due to 1080/24P Implementation
- Lowlight performance not as great as MKii
- Not exactly S35mm FOV
- No Video Out Monitoring during recording built-in
- No Audio Metering (dunno if this is really a con, but sure)
- Weak Still Capabilities on a Consumer level
- Aliasing issues in 1080P, 720P TBD but looks better. Needs workarounds


Canon 5D MKii

Pros

- Full frame sensor
* Photographic Full Frame FOV and DOF
* Better low light performance
* High dynamic range
* Live HDMI out while recording
- Robust 1080 Compression. Still worthy video in fact.
- Incredible still images for the money
- Hudson's Participation in the 5D Free Program
* Gui represented Audio Levels
* Adjustable Audio gain
* On screen Zebras for Highlight pretection
* Crop Marks on Screen for Video stay visible
- Live Video out through HDMI or Composite port during recording

Cons

- 30P limitation. No options in-camera to record higher or lower
- Full Frame DOF will cause problems with focusing in Run-N-Gun
- Full Frame limits lens choices, although great glass available that covers it.
- Larger Body than competitors
- No Crop Options at the time, need to crop in post if you want such a thing.
- Battery Drains quickly when Live View is activated
- No Flip-Out LCD. Locked into EVF or Stationary LCD on back.
- Hot Pixels prone to appearing during extended use
- Heats Up: affects not known, outside of hot pixels.
- Aliasing issues need workarounds
- Jello more prevalent than GH-1, but much better than D90
- Price in comparison to competitors
* 2600 + Tax (2800+ in CA) with no kit lens

And similarities

GH-1 and MKii Similarities-

- The Post Workflow requires just as much attention on both sides.
* the MKii at the moment only shoots 30P. Lets be real, most of us want 24p. If you want that then you must go through a process. You can create a droplet for this, but it'll be done. You also have to convert to something you can edit.
* the GH-1 needs a friggin' pulldown. You know the drill. I mean, you get 24P, but you still have to convert/log and transfer. NeoScene makes this a one-step process along with other methods that Isaac Brody has found.

- No Real Onboard Audio
* Metering or not, on boad audio is not here. Both need dual systems which adds to the overall cost of production. even if that cost is low, it's still a cost.

- Both need External Filters
* Slice it how you will. A [good] ND Filter Kit, if not two, will be needed. Puredrifting (Dan) purchased the awesome Singh Ray, a variable ND filter. It also cost about 300+ Retail. I have a set of Hoya ND's that ran me 150.00. You'll also want to have a Polarizer, etc. You overlook this and you'll be wondering why everyone else's footage destroys yours. You must adopt a new kind of mentality: the cinema mentality.

- Support Gear
* We all must find a way to deal with these things. Zacuto, Cinevate, Redrock have all put stuff together but does it work right? This is going to take some getting used to. In exchange for the small size, we now need to find out how to stabilize the cameras in a manner that's cost effective and matches the cost of the camera itself. Did you really gain anything if you have to use a full steadicam rig to get proper motion out of them? No.

- CMOS technology
* no matter which one exhibits the better jello handling, they both have to be tailored to their CMOS limitations. Until someone drops a Global Shutter, they're BOTH inferior to a Global Shutter CCD sensor when dealing with motion, flashes, etc.

- Excellent Storage Capacity
* Beats p2 and SxS cards by a mile, my friends. They both have this advantage, without a doubt.

- Incredible Dynamic Range over Prosumer Video Camera Offerings
* Need I say more? Jack Daniel Stanley made the best point of any posted: they're BOTH better than rocking a 35mm Adapter as far as Dynamic Range and Highlight Handling goes.

- Still Camera Double
* No matter which is better, you still get great stills for the price of both.

- Resale Value
* Welcome to the consumer market. You can keep your glass and sell the camera body when the next one comes up. The ballgame is different here. There are WAY more consumers to sell your gear too than there are Prosumers. Get your use out of it, take care of your gear and sell later to get the next best thing. This is one huge reason why the which-is-better-debates are irrelevant. We will all be better in a year or two.


--- At the end of the day, now having this GH-1 back in my hands... I'm really sorry but the overall winner is the GH-1. I'm not gonna soapbox, but I'm really sad to see it leave and can't wait to get my two US bodies in.


I just thought we could have an intelligent (non-argumentative) conversation.

Hope this helps for the DSLR end. Somewhere in the maze of threads I'm sure the other cams have been mentioned. I don't think people mean to be nasty but much of what you're asking here has been dealt with many times already so enthusiasm level is going to be a bit lame.

John Caballero
06-04-2009, 11:47 PM
I am sure your work is superior to mine

Nope. It is not. Each one of us is and artist and thats what it is. Not better not worse. We all contribute with our work. That wasn't my intention its just that I get a bit upset with the noise issue on the HVX 200. But thats going to become part of the past anyway. The problem with these DSLRs is that they are just in their infancy. More than low price what a lot of people want is that shallow DOF ability that you can't get with the 1/3" cameras by themselves. As time passes they will offer al the bells and whistles of an HVX or HMC 150 and much more. At this moment we have to make the most of what we get. The GH1 seems pretty good for version 1.0 from a company recognized for bettering their products as they go along. With a couple of jobs, video or stills, you should get your money back for the next camera. Its a great time to be part of the world of image making. Enjoy the ride.

squig
06-04-2009, 11:48 PM
don't confuse nastiness with heated debate. we have many debates but it rarely gets personal. we do tend to joke around with each other a lot but it's all in good fun.

Right now the MKII is hard to beat for "filmic" quality. The GH1 is probably more versatile.

John Caballero
06-04-2009, 11:59 PM
enthusiasm level is going to be a bit lame.

You can say that again. I just want my darn camera! Where is my GH1???? I can't wait to whip it around like a madman. Right in the middle of downtown Manhattan! Just throwing mud at everybody that gets in the middle of my crazy panning! I want artifacts and mud created by my very own two hands not somebody elses mud and artifacts!!

squig
06-05-2009, 12:09 AM
lol. you can make it look just like a D90

John Caballero
06-05-2009, 12:12 AM
you can make it look just like a D90

jelloland all over again!

Nighthawk
06-05-2009, 12:17 AM
zzzzzzzzzzzzz


You can say that again. I just want my darn camera! Where is my GH1???? I can't wait to whip it around like a madman. Right in the middle of downtown Manhattan! Just throwing mud at everybody that gets in the middle of my crazy panning! I want artifacts and mud created by my very own two hands not somebody elses mud and artifacts!!

Somebody woke up and, God, don't get me going about 'where's the GH1?'. I'm dyin' here.

squig
06-05-2009, 12:21 AM
looks like they forgot to ship them to canada and aus. I probably would have just bought one if they were available this week.

John Caballero
06-05-2009, 12:23 AM
I probably would have just bought one if they were available this week.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????

Nighthawk
06-05-2009, 12:24 AM
looks like they forgot to ship them to canada and aus. I probably would have just bought one if they were available this week.

I hear ya. Short end of the stick for us. But what's with the price you guys are having to pay? That's seriously nuts.

John Caballero
06-05-2009, 12:27 AM
But what's with the price you guys are having to pay?

I actually heard on Bloomberg Television that Australia is doing very well despite the world recession. They have money to burn!

Nighthawk
06-05-2009, 12:28 AM
I actually heard on Bloomberg Television that Australia is doing very well despite the world recession. They have money to burn!

So, squig. How's your immigration laws?

John Caballero
06-05-2009, 12:31 AM
He could probably hook you up with a nice australian bride and you might be able to become a citizen in no time!

squig
06-05-2009, 12:34 AM
hehe yeah the government just has the printing presses going and they keep throwing money at us instead of at the banks. I can't understand why you haven't lynched your bankers yet.....at least a bit of waterboarding. how do you think I'm paying for the MKII? The GH1 price certainly makes the MKII look much more attractive. Australia is just 6 months behind everybody else, we'll go down with the rest of you but we have more places to hide and lots of sharks and crocs to keep the riff raff out. :2vrolijk_08:

Nighthawk
06-05-2009, 12:34 AM
I'll need a wedding photographer. Know any that hasn't decided on a camera yet?

John Caballero
06-05-2009, 12:37 AM
I'll need a wedding photographer. Know any that hasn't decided on a camera yet?

Maybe you can barter him a camera in exchange for the bride!

Lol!

squig
06-05-2009, 12:37 AM
canadians no problemo we just don't like americans, too uptight :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

squig
06-05-2009, 12:39 AM
I'll need a wedding photographer. Know any that hasn't decided on a camera yet?

don't think I could do it, I'd fall asleep. I didn't even go to my own wedding.

squig
06-05-2009, 12:40 AM
seriously the govt paid for the D90 and another $1000 towards the MKII

John Caballero
06-05-2009, 12:43 AM
Canada's got good money too! Number one supplier of oil to the good old USof A. They should be swimming in mucho dinero!

Nighthawk
06-05-2009, 12:45 AM
seriously the govt paid for the D90 and another $1000 towards the MKII

I've just bought my ticket.

ummm, did we just hijack somebody's thread? and on my 100th post. D'oh.

Nighthawk
06-05-2009, 12:46 AM
Canada's got good money too! Number one supplier of oil to the good old USof A. They should be swimming in mucho dinero!

Somebody is. Sadly it ain't me

squig
06-05-2009, 12:46 AM
yeah but no sharks and crocs to keep out the southerners

John Caballero
06-05-2009, 12:46 AM
Happy 100th anyway. And 101.


yeah but no sharks and crocs to keep out the southerners

Yep. A lot of gringos are thinking of crossing the border.

Nighthawk
06-05-2009, 12:48 AM
I'm a senior. Does that mean I get a discount and want to have dinner at 4:30 in the afternoon?

squig
06-05-2009, 12:48 AM
I've just bought my ticket.

ummm, did we just hijack somebody's thread? and on my 100th post. D'oh.

woohoo party! it seems like just the other day when I hit 1000.....oh yeah it was just the other day. all talk no action.

SonicStates
06-05-2009, 12:49 AM
looks like they forgot to ship them to canada and aus. I probably would have just bought one if they were available this week.

FLIP------FLOP------FLIP------FLOP :)

"hehe yeah the government just has the printing presses going and they keep throwing money at us instead of at the banks."

...And sending money to the deceased

Seriously though, the Aus price is total BS.

Another point: dcloud also told me that there was a rumor that English menu'd GH1s were being sold here now...Called Panasonic - NO English versions for sale and no plans to...loved the reason though..."This is Japan" ahahahaha...people in Japan wanting an English menu (let alone a manual)...Inconcievable!!!!

squig
06-05-2009, 12:51 AM
hmm seniors yeah move to queensland it's a bit like florida. everything is free for seniors.

squig
06-05-2009, 12:53 AM
hehe yeah 16,000 dead people got $900 each. better off dead.

I can get one out of HK for roughly the JPN price. but not today!

Nighthawk
06-05-2009, 12:55 AM
hmm seniors yeah move to queensland it's a bit like florida. everything is free for seniors.

Naw. Senior as in Senior Member status. That's what happens on the 100th post. I got a few years before I'm buckling my pants between my nipples.

squig
06-05-2009, 12:56 AM
oh lol

squig
06-05-2009, 12:57 AM
I'm batting for an innings of 10,000 not out. should have the film done by then

Ian-T
06-05-2009, 05:56 AM
yeah but no sharks and crocs to keep out the southernersHa...I live in Florida. We've got plenty of those.

holyzoo
06-05-2009, 09:16 AM
HVX200 has way to much noise, I barley even consider it HD cause the resolution is to low and low-light is atrocious, which is why i just sold it.

I agree that the noise can suck if not handled properly, and low light is pretty poor compared to the newer crop - GH1 and especially the 5DMkII.

But that being said... rather than all the techno babble, it matters more what you shoot.

http://vimeo.com/3983085 - most of it shot in some of the most horribly low light on an HVX.

Isaac_Brody
06-05-2009, 09:41 AM
But that being said... rather than all the techno babble, it matters more what you shoot.

http://vimeo.com/3983085 - most of it shot in some of the most horribly low light on an HVX.


Bingo. :thumbup:

auvitd
06-05-2009, 10:52 AM
Hope this helps for the DSLR end. Somewhere in the maze of threads I'm sure the other cams have been mentioned. I don't think people mean to be nasty but much of what you're asking here has been dealt with many times already so enthusiasm level is going to be a bit lame.

I'm a fan of this post but just wanna add one important thing. gh1 is 1/2 price of mkii. For me, that's a huge difference. You can save at least $2000 buying gh1 instead of mkii.

tackleqb
06-05-2009, 12:30 PM
I agree that the noise can suck if not handled properly, and low light is pretty poor compared to the newer crop - GH1 and especially the 5DMkII.

But that being said... rather than all the techno babble, it matters more what you shoot.

http://vimeo.com/3983085 - most of it shot in some of the most horribly low light on an HVX.

wow was that 720p or 1080? Please tell me 720p!

Kholi
06-05-2009, 01:39 PM
I agree that the noise can suck if not handled properly, and low light is pretty poor compared to the newer crop - GH1 and especially the 5DMkII.

But that being said... rather than all the techno babble, it matters more what you shoot.

http://vimeo.com/3983085 - most of it shot in some of the most horribly low light on an HVX.


This statement backed 100%.

The only other thing left is just being comfortable with the camera in your hands. The rest just does not matter.

holyzoo
06-05-2009, 02:53 PM
wow was that 720p or 1080? Please tell me 720p!

Was all shot in 720p24N. Need to reiterate this was on an HVX200, not a GH1 - to demonstrate the usability of the HVX despite it's low light high noise infamy.

cjwolff
06-06-2009, 01:28 PM
Iq:
1. 5dm2
2. Ex1
3. Gh1
4. Hpx300

v:
1. Hpx300
2. Ex1
3. Gh1
4. 5dm2

tackleqb
06-06-2009, 02:17 PM
thanks cjwolf for your input. I just hope panny listens to our cries and has a firmware update soon and maybe it might move up on your list.

tackleqb
06-06-2009, 02:19 PM
Iq:
1. 5dm2
2. Ex1
3. Gh1
4. Hpx300

v:
1. Hpx300
2. Ex1
3. Gh1
4. 5dm2

wow I didn't know 5dm2 had a better image then the ex1. Thats like a 3 thousand dollar difference right there!

Daniel L.
06-06-2009, 02:40 PM
v:
1. Hpx300
2. Ex1
3. 5dm2
4. Gh1

Allow me to justify this...

5D has Live HDMI while recording: Means you can use it on a steadicam, camera crane, and other configurations where IMO the GH1 is nearly useless.

5D has automatic audio gain disabled: Making audio capture in camera actually a valid option.

5D has a full frame sensor: Allowing more creative choices in framing and focus selection. *

5D has on screen audio levels: No need to explain more..

5D has a codec that won't break up on pans: meaning your video won't randomly turn to garbage

5D has higher dynamic range: Allowing shooting in more difficult conditions.

5D is more light sensitive: Allowing shooting in more difficult conditions.

5D has zebra: making it easier to adjust exposure.


Sure the GH1 has it's advantages.. 60 fps, reduced rolling shutter, price, etc.. However, both of them have big problems. It's a mater of balancing what is important to you. From my point of view, there is no way the 5D is less versatile than the GH1... How you guys are calculating that is beyond me...

My two cents ;)

* If you don't want hair pin DOF stop the lens down, it's as easy as that. Nobody has to shoot wide open.

tackleqb
06-06-2009, 02:45 PM
thank you Daniel for your input. What are your thoughts on image quality?

Daniel L.
06-06-2009, 02:58 PM
I would rather not comment on image quality, simply because I don't have enough information to base any opinion on. I don't have a GH1 and have never used an HPX300. So it would be just speculation on my part.

I'm hesitant to say the 5D video quality is better than the EX1.. Some say it defiantly is... but... I'm not ready to call that.

squig
06-06-2009, 04:16 PM
v:


5D has Live HDMI while recording: Means you can use it on a steadicam, camera crane, and other configurations where IMO the GH1 is nearly useless.
[

I wouldn't say the GH1 is nearly useless for steadicam work. It has auto focus, less jello, and a swivel LCD. Depending on the mud factor it may be better for stabilized shots than the MKII

tackleqb
06-06-2009, 04:55 PM
so then paul greengrass and Steven Soderbergh type work would definitely not work huh?

cjwolff
06-06-2009, 06:46 PM
I'm hesitant to say the 5D video quality is better than the EX1.. Some say it defiantly is... but... I'm not ready to call that.

You may have already seen this but if not it's worth a look. Absolutely delicious 5DM2 piece by Mr. Bloom.

http://exposureroom.com/members/philipbloom.aspx/assets/f0db86b58d7b4eb09a9a38551d1f7d6c/

HPX300

http://exposureroom.com/members/philipbloom.aspx/assets/dff0a96491094a2fb00e1286775b810a

Daniel, for all of the reasons you mentioned above the 5DM2 is an excellent choice at the price point. To take that image quality and add portability you're going to be in the $10k+ range with the EX3/HPX30X series.

I'm skeptical that Panny is going to make an effort to introduce a higher bitrate code on the GH1 ...yet. In my opinion this is a product differentiation vis-a-vis the EOS60D's rumored auto controls vs the 5D's manual controls. If they made the GH1 all things for all people there would be a lot of money moving out of the Pro Video division...

ryansheffer
06-07-2009, 02:42 AM
5d blows Ex1 out of the water in terms of image quality - especially in terms of codec breakdown and dynamic range. I also strongly strongly prefer the color rendition in the 5d. Its treatment of skin tones is better than any camera I have ever used, including RED.

squig
06-07-2009, 02:51 AM
5d blows Ex1 out of the water in terms of image quality - especially in terms of codec breakdown and dynamic range. I also strongly strongly prefer the color rendition in the 5d. Its treatment of skin tones is better than any camera I have ever used, including RED.

used a D90?

ryansheffer
06-07-2009, 08:52 AM
Yes. And I think it looks great. But, almost everything I shoot is without a tripod. On top of that, most all companies I work for have 1080p shoot/delivery specs.

I do actually prefer the color on the 5d though. I've found that if I bump down the sharpness and contrast a couple of notches, and bump down the saturation slightly, the image I get out of the camera is great to the point that I barely want to do any color correction.

I understand people's love that the D90 looks so "filmic" but I don't see the point of using these cameras to imitate film. They are their own thing.

Another random comment about the 5D that I don't think has been played up enough - It has the BEST on camera lcd that I have EVER used. Granted it doesn't flip out or rotate which is annnoying, but - it is such a great LCD that I don't care. I have had zero focus issues even shooting at a 1.4. It takes a second to focus, but you can absolutely find it solely using the LCD.

squig
06-07-2009, 05:04 PM
I've picked up some "soft" russian lenses that should take the edge off the 5D and make it look more filmic. I have some "film look" filters too. Yeah I've heard the color is better than the Nikons.....can't wait to see for myself.

tackleqb
06-07-2009, 08:02 PM
I've picked up some "soft" russian lenses that should take the edge off the 5D and make it look more filmic. I have some "film look" filters too. Yeah I've heard the color is better than the Nikons.....can't wait to see for myself.

what kind of filters are you using? Can you send me a link of some good ones?

squig
06-07-2009, 10:21 PM
I bought the tiffen DV film look kit. http://www.tiffen.com/displayproduct.html?tablename=filters&itemnum=52DVFLK I got one on ebay for $75. I haven't had a chance to use them yet but I'll shoot some test footage over the next couple of weeks when I get a new camera. I'm also going to get some low contrast filters.

ydgmdlu
06-08-2009, 01:06 AM
tackleqb, I don't understand your rankings. How exactly did you judge the HMC150 to have superior IQ to the 5D Mark II? Even using just the criteria that you listed, I don't see how the 5D doesn't come out on top in every way. The only thing that you say about the HMC150 is that the codec has a higher bitrate than the GH1. The 5D has a far superior codec to all of the other cameras except for the HVX200. 40+ Mbps H.264 should even be superior to XDCAM. Your other criteria can also be evaluated objectively, so long as proper standards are defined. Trying to be as objective as possible, I still don't see how the HMC150's image could be considered better than the 5D's. So please explain your thinking.

Your versatility ranking is dubious because you haven't explained precisely what you mean by "versatile." And camera versatility is a very complicated issue, made even more complicated by the fact that the usefulness of such evaluations is highly subjective. Some people care about certain features and limitations more than other people. Image quality, on the other hand, is far more universal. So what's important to you?

Also, I think that image quality is the most important aspect of the camera. It's what your audience sees. They're not going to know or care much about about what you had to do to get the images that they see. Therefore, to impress them, your goal should be to deliver the best possible images, given your circumstances. Frankly, film cameras would be at the very bottom of your versatility list, yet film still offers the best image overall quality, which is why most indie filmmakers (to say nothing of Hollywood) would prefer to shoot on film if they could afford it and either didn't mind the workflow or could hire someone to handle the workflow difficulties for them.

tackleqb
06-08-2009, 08:45 AM
How exactly did you judge the HMC150 to have superior IQ to the 5D Mark II?

I was just guessing, since I don't own either camera I am not familiar with the image quality. I am only basing my judgment on videos on Vimeo, so it might be possible I haven't looked at the best of what 5DMKii has to offer.


versatility ranking is dubious because you haven't explained precisely what you mean by "versatile."

I think you are over analyzing a bit. I just simply meant to be very general in my definition of versatility so I could leave it up to you guys to reply and come up with your own definitions of versatility and rankings.


I think that image quality is the most important aspect of the camera. It's what your audience sees. They're not going to know or care much about about what you had to do to get the images that they see. Therefore, to impress them, your goal should be to deliver the best possible images, given your circumstances. Frankly, film cameras would be at the very bottom of your versatility list, yet film still offers the best image overall quality, which is why most indie filmmakers (to say nothing of Hollywood) would prefer to shoot on film if they could afford it and either didn't mind the workflow or could hire someone to handle the workflow difficulties for them.

this is why the "image quality" catagory is first! I realize the audience doesn't care much about how I got the image but I am the one filming so I want to buy a camera that is going to be the best fit for me! Thank you for your input :beer:

ydgmdlu
06-08-2009, 08:45 PM
I was just guessing, since I don't own either camera I am not familiar with the image quality. I am only basing my judgment on videos on Vimeo, so it might be possible I haven't looked at the best of what 5DMKii has to offer.
Again, how exactly did you come to that conclusion? I am genuinely curious. What did you see in the footage that persuaded to judge that way?


I think you are over analyzing a bit. I just simply meant to be very general in my definition of versatility so I could leave it up to you guys to reply and come up with your own definitions of versatility and rankings.
No, I'm not over-analyzing. You didn't explain exactly what your definition of or criteria for versatility was, and so you didn't provide much in the way of talking points. It doesn't really help the discussion.

Remember, you asked the question that kicked off the thread. So we're replying to you. Ideally, in order to help you, we should know what you mean when you talk about image quality and versatility.

tackleqb
06-08-2009, 09:50 PM
Again, how exactly did you come to that conclusion? I am genuinely curious. What did you see in the footage that persuaded to judge that way?

I really have kind of changed my mind on this. Since then I have looked at more HMC150 and 5DMKii footage latley and right now I would say that the image quality of both HC150 and the 5DKii are about the same to me. I am basing my image quality judgment on the criteria below. However there are many people that change the image in post when they put their video on Vimeo so again it's sometimes tough to come to a conclusion when rating the cameras together.


Ideally, in order to help you, we should know what you mean when you talk about image quality and versatility.

Okay seems like you are very persistent so I guess I will define my definition of versatility more precisely. I wanted people to rate the camera on how versatile it is when it comes to whether or not it has interchangeable lenses, LCD monitor size (this is of course subjective), Shutter speed range, Input and output connectors ie. XLR pins, headphone jack, mic 3.5 jacks, HDMI out (while shooting), Low light capabilities, how the camera holds up in cold/hot whether, the weight of the camera (subjective), Variable frame rates, number of optional shooting modes ie. 720p, 1080i, or 1080p and whether you have the option of shooting 24p in those modes. And also how the footage holds up in post production ie. how it holds up during pull down. Since I am looking more for a film like image then I wanted your judgments to have more of an emphasis on just that (whether you think film cameras are versatile or not).

As far as image quality I wanted you guys to base your judgment on how sharp the picture is, how much noise you see compared to the other cameras, whether you get a 'mud' effect on panning or the amount of jello you see on some of the DSLR cameras compared to others. Also judge the image quality based on the color (straight from the raw footage). Also have an emphasis on which camera will give me the best filmic type image (whether you like a filmic look or not).

I am not sure what else to tell you as far as being specific, if that isn't really specific enough then i think you are missing the point..

Morpheus_23
06-21-2009, 05:31 AM
Having owned the EX1 and now the 5D Mark ll, I think I can speak about IQ for both. The EX1 is an amazing tool for excellent HD production. There are features that I truely miss. But, I would have to say, I like the IQ more on the 5D. It certainly has some limitations i.e., 30P, focus etc. but honestly, I have owned many cameras but have seen some of the best video (out of the ones I've owned) from the 5D.

http://www.digitalvideoworks.net/Digital_VideoWorks/5D_Mark_ll_Demo.html

All of the cameras discussed in this forum, in the right hands, can turn out excellent IQ. And the 40+ bitrate of the 5D holds up to just about anything I throw at it.

Again, the limitations make the 5D harder to use in many circumstances where the EX1 and others would do well.