DVX100 vs Canon HV30 / HF100

[Derkoi]

I have a DVX100a & i'm wondering if i should consider changing to one of the HD cameras like the HV30 or HF100 or even the Panasonic HDC-SD20.

I can't afford a HVX200 or anything like that, basically i'd be selling my DVX100a to fund my new camera purchase.

Is it worth the change, will the image be better?

I've already lost one client as i could not provide HD.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated, maybe if anyone can suggest an HD camera i may have missed?

Also does anyone have a comparison of a DVX100 shot vs HD shot from one of these consumer HD cams ?

[Ki-Ki]

HF20. Mark II of the EOS cameras?

[Derkoi]

Do they record sound too?

[Ki-Ki]

They do, but I'd get an external mic - or plug one into the camera. Though the EOS-500D doesn't have a microphone input i think. Just, a built in mic. The HF20 has a plug so you can though.

[Derkoi]

Cool

[Huy Vu]

Showing up with an HV30 to a paying job is going to cost you that job faster than you can say "but it shoots HD!"

I mean, seriously, it's a pain to work with a consumer camera. No manual control, no XLR input, no zoom/focus ring. Keep the DVX.

[Derkoi]

Showing up with an HV30 to a paying job is going to cost you that job faster than you can say "but it shoots HD!"

I mean, seriously, it's a pain to work with a consumer camera. No manual control, no XLR input, no zoom/focus ring. Keep the DVX.

Yeah i know what you're saying, but my clients are mostly bands that pay £300 for a music video or some footage for court evidence etc.

I know the controls are an issue, but i was thinking of getting a 35mm adapter which will then give me all the manual controls i need.

[Huy Vu]

On an HV camera you can't control gain, iris or shutter independently, it's always pick one and let the other two be automatic. That can cause huge problem with adapters because many of them have a shutter or aperture limit. All adapters user uses the camera iris to control exposure in addition to the SLR lenses because of this so your problems doesn't really go away. I've worked with the HV20/HV30 several times and it's always a PITA to make sure that the camera doesn't bump up the gain automatically. There are of course workarounds, but you're paying for it with time on set.

[Derkoi]

Yeah i heard about that, but i thought you could lock the settings down?

I'm just wondering if there's something in the middle of the HV30 and DVX100 in terms of HD and manual controls.

Any ideas?

[Marlon Ladd]

Man, I had a DVX100a and I loved it, but the bottom line is, it's past its prime. This is the HD generation. There's no way I would be trying to do quality work now with 480x720. I just ordered the Canon HV40 and can't wait for it to get here. If you haven't yet seen some footage on these cameras, go to vimeo and compare. The prices on the DVXs continue to drop in worth for one reason only - it's not HD.

[Ki-Ki]

The thing is, no matter who you ask for advice. Everyone will have different opinions.

It'll make your decision harder.

Sure you might find something someone agree's on, but you won't know if you've made the right decision or not until you've actually used it. I've been searching for a couple of months now, and every damn time i think i've found the perfect piece of equipt', something better come's along..

[Peter Mosiman]

I've been searching for a couple of months now, and every damn time i think i've found the perfect piece of equipt', something better come's along..

Ain't technology a bitch. :beer:

[Derkoi]

Man, I had a DVX100a and I loved it, but the bottom line is, it's past its prime. This is the HD generation. There's no way I would be trying to do quality work now with 480x720. I just ordered the Canon HV40 and can't wait for it to get here. If you haven't yet seen some footage on these cameras, go to vimeo and compare. The prices on the DVXs continue to drop in worth for one reason only - it's not HD.

Yeah i agree, that's what i'm feeling now when working with the DVX100, it's past it's prime.


The thing is, no matter who you ask for advice. Everyone will have different opinions.

It'll make your decision harder.

Sure you might find something someone agree's on, but you won't know if you've made the right decision or not until you've actually used it. I've been searching for a couple of months now, and every damn time i think i've found the perfect piece of equipt', something better come's along..

Yeah the HV20 / 30 is a great camera, reviews are very positive.

I guess it's something i'll have to think about. :)

[hepabst]

I have 2 HV20's and now a new HV40. The HV40 I bought new and the HV20's I got used for less that 400.00 each when Circuit City went out of business. I love them. The important thing to ask is how much money do you have to spend. The HV's are the best camera under 1000.00 IMHO.

As far as locking exposure you are just two button clicks from being locked. Manual focus is one button click away.

I also use my HV's with a Letus35 Mini and they work fine.

Yes it doesn't have the standard focus/iris rings but in a few hours you'll understand how the camera works.

Most of my jobs are low budget so people don't mind me shooting with a consumer cam. Plus the image from these cams look great for the price.

[Derkoi]

I have 2 HV20's and now a new HV40. The HV40 I bought new and the HV20's I got used for less that 400.00 each when Circuit City went out of business. I love them. The important thing to ask is how much money do you have to spend. The HV's are the best camera under 1000.00 IMHO.

As far as locking exposure you are just two button clicks from being locked. Manual focus is one button click away.

I also use my HV's with a Letus35 Mini and they work fine.

Yes it doesn't have the standard focus/iris rings but in a few hours you'll understand how the camera works.

Most of my jobs are low budget so people don't mind me shooting with a consumer cam. Plus the image from these cams look great for the price.

Thanks for the reply.

As far as money goes, i'll be selling the DVX100 to directly fund the purchase of the new camera, so i think i'm looking at around £800.

Most of my jobs are low budget too, band videos etc.

An internet friend of mine sent me some raw footage in m2t format for me to play with, the image quality has really sold it to me.

[Chamber005]

Just got the HF200 new in the box for 350 bucks!! I wish I had the internal memory of the HF20, but, I mean, come on, 350 bucks?!

This is my first every venture into the world of tapeless -- and, I gotta say, it is just too cool. The camera even has an HDMI hook-up. 24p (recorded at 60i). I literally JUST got it, so I'll post some footage this weekend.

Extremely happy with it so far. The picture is just ridiculous (EX 1 ridiculous).

[k3vinTran_Dir]

check out my work on the canons hv20

www.youtube.com/k3films

ill be here to answer questions if any :/

[Derkoi]

Thanks, i sold the DVX100 & get a HV30. I feel for me, it was a good move.

[Chris J. Zayachkowski]

I have a DVX100a & i'm wondering if i should consider changing to one of the HD cameras like the HV30 or HF100 or even the Panasonic HDC-SD20.

I can't afford a HVX200 or anything like that, basically i'd be selling my DVX100a to fund my new camera purchase.

Is it worth the change, will the image be better?

I've already lost one client as i could not provide HD.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated, maybe if anyone can suggest an HD camera i may have missed?

Also does anyone have a comparison of a DVX100 shot vs HD shot from one of these consumer HD cams ?

I shot a feature on a Panasonic DVX100 and I am thinking the same too. I no longer have the DVX but want to get a Canon HF200 or the HF S100. I have seen footage shot with these cameras.

I considered the DVX100 (original) to produce washed out colors.

Chris

[benjamin222]

I'd personally go crazy with a camera that didn't have manual zoom and focus rings and the DVX-style form factor.

As far as HD goes, the DVX offers decent results when upscaled.

http://www.vimeo.com/7123040

http://www.vimeo.com/3998687

Also you can check out the new eps of it's always sunny in Philadelphia which is still being filmed with a DVX in squeeze mode and then upscaled for HD broadcast

[Kellar42]

The HFs100 is a little easier to control than the HV series, a little sharper and gets you on a tapeless workflow.

[flinty]

The HFs100 is a little easier to control than the HV series, a little sharper and gets you on a tapeless workflow.

Owning a HV30 and having used a HFs100 thats balderdash.

[Kellar42]

I owned the HV30 till it was stolen, bought an HFs100, and still use a buddies HV30 with it occasionally. So you can disagree, but your having used both cameras doesn't make my thoughts 'balderdash'.

[flinty]

http://vimeo.com/7479006?hd=1
balderdash may not be the correct word but i stand by by saying no cam under 3000£/4000$ takes better footage.

[Huy Vu]

http://vimeo.com/7479006?hd=1
balderdash may not be the correct word but i stand by by saying no cam under 3000£/4000$ takes better footage.

Hmm. Might want to lower the estimate by a lot. The footage isn't bad but it's nothing that you can't do on an HVX, A1, HMC etc.

[flinty]

Hmm. Might want to lower the estimate by a lot. The footage isn't bad but it's nothing that you can't do on an HVX, A1, HMC etc.

But they cant do better .

[Huy Vu]

But they cant do better .

How do you define "better"? Let's be clear: the HV/HF/HG line of cameras produces amazing images for the price, but there's a reason they cost so little. To get decent results with them you have to go through all kinds of methods to trick the camera, whereas with more expensive cameras you don't.

[MiyaDV]

How do you define "better"? Let's be clear: the HV/HF/HG line of cameras produces amazing images for the price, but there's a reason they cost so little. To get decent results with them you have to go through all kinds of methods to trick the camera, whereas with more expensive cameras you don't.
Ermm, what kind of tricks would we have to go through?

I haven't owned an HD camera yet but I'm planning on getting one and it's either a HV30/20 HDV or a HF200/S10/11/12 the lack of viewfinders on the AVCHD one's is discouraging, but the tapeless is a bonus, that HV30 clip looked amazing to me, can the current AVCHD cams from canon do the same/better quietly of that?

I can get the HV30 - 750$
HF200 - 500$
S11/12 1200$ or something

Shouldn't the S11/12 have better image quietly due to their price? And how does the HF200 stand up to the HV30 because 500$ is a pretty sweet deal

[Huy Vu]

Ermm, what kind of tricks would we have to go through?



No dedicated focus ring or iris ring, no way to independently control iris, shutterspeed, gain and ND filter, no XLR jack or phantom power, no way to disable the audio Automatic Gain Control. There are work around for all of this, but it's an unwieldy process that takes up valuable time on set. These camera can generate footage that are as good as their more expensive counterpart, but it's just way more work getting there. That's why it's misleading to judge a camera on image quality alone, there are so many other factors that go into it and at the end of the day you get what you pay for.

[Omari7]

Guys what about the HV40. Is this the best bet out of the lot?

[skital]

But they cant do better .

You can't be serious? That's like saying a Super 35mm could do only as good as 16mm, but not any better. lol. Are you seriously saying an HMC150 couldn't do better? C'mon, man. lol. I love my HV20; It is capable of some great looking footage (at time even amazing or film like), but seriously. Cameras like the HMC150 are on another level and even more capable. That camera produces superior colors, less noise, WAY WAY better low light footage, superior dynamic range, has manual controls and a very clearly sharper image in Cinemode/Cinegamma than the HV series, which photos have proven the HV series loses resolution in cinemode, which is the best mode for the most latitude. The HMC150 would have done better....in the right hands, of course.

Now, will the HMC150 be worlds better? In some shots it may be only marginally better, but it will be better in pretty much every shot if the person knows how to use the camera well. In some shots the HMC150 will look a lot better.

Dollar for dollar the HV20/30/etc are great deals and amazing bang for your bucks that can be comparable to highend cameras. Heck, my best friend saw footage of mine on my HD DLP projector at 110" and said it looked like a movie. That's a huge compliment. However, I know the HMC150 footage would look even better. Sometimes only marginally so and sometimes dramatically so, depending on the scene.

Now, cameras like the 7D and 5D Mark II are capable of destroying the HV20/HV30 in a lot of scenes and they cost anywhere from $1800-$3,500, which fits the price range of cameras you say couldn't do any better. Those two certainly would be able to produce superior images.

[flinty]

You can't be serious? That's like saying a Super 35mm could do only as good as 16mm, but not any better. lol. Are you seriously saying an HMC150 couldn't do better? C'mon, man. lol. I love my HV20; It is capable of some great looking footage (at time even amazing or film like), but seriously. Cameras like the HMC150 are on another level and even more capable. That camera produces superior colors, less noise, WAY WAY better low light footage, superior dynamic range, has manual controls and a very clearly sharper image in Cinemode/Cinegamma than the HV series, which photos have proven the HV series loses resolution in cinemode, which is the best mode for the most latitude. The HMC150 would have done better....in the right hands, of course.

Now, will the HMC150 be worlds better? In some shots it may be only marginally better, but it will be better in pretty much every shot if the person knows how to use the camera well. In some shots the HMC150 will look a lot better.

Dollar for dollar the HV20/30/etc are great deals and amazing bang for your bucks that can be comparable to highend cameras. Heck, my best friend saw footage of mine on my HD DLP projector at 110" and said it looked like a movie. That's a huge compliment. However, I know the HMC150 footage would look even better. Sometimes only marginally so and sometimes dramatically so, depending on the scene.

Now, cameras like the 7D and 5D Mark II are capable of destroying the HV20/HV30 in a lot of scenes and they cost anywhere from $1800-$3,500, which fits the price range of cameras you say couldn't do any better. Those two certainly would be able to produce superior images.

Well i stand by what i said, often what i get from my HV30 looks as good if not better than whats on the hd channel over here.regarding the 7D Its a known fact the picture is less sharp then the HVs, i dont like cine mode it softens the picture and is too orangey for me i just use P mode 25P.
By the way i am only talking about shooting outdoors.

[Huy Vu]

I'll sum it up this way: in the right condition the HV cameras (and other similar consumer cams) can produce images that are equally good as their more expensive brethren, although at considerably more efforts. But it's in the adverse conditions (low light, high dynamic range, fast moving productions on a limited time and budget) that those more expensive cameras going to shine through. That's why they cost more.

[flinty]

Dont argue at all but as long as i get good results like below from a cheap cam i am happy

http://vimeo.com/6937367?hd=1

http://vimeo.com/7479006

http://vimeo.com/6686866