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Kholi
05-29-2009, 02:15 AM
I'm looking for some and I think I've found like... what... three? Four examples?

The rest of the footage online falls into "test" categories. Random people, food, animals and some decently shot landscape. That's okay, but seeing this footage is what put me off from the MKii in the first place. Not to mention 30P on top of that and no Manual Controls until now.

Of all the amazing footage I keep reading about, I've only seen a literal handful of clips that really show what this thing is capable of. Elton's stuff, great example, the shooter Ryoni and his model-- incredible footage, so to the point that the 30P only made it BETTER. That's ME saying that.

Matthew Bennet showed a great narrative example, there's also a well lit dinner scene. Odd to me, but well lit.

I can see that there aren't manual controls yet, but there are manual color profiles and manual white balance. Just about EVERY single clip from current users shows pretty bad/off color balance. Skin Tones are looking much too yellow or pink and pasty, or just plain wrong.

The camera's been out sine late last year. What's the deal? Am I looking in the wrong place?

Don't take this as an attack on the Canon because mines is coming in tomorrow. I shelled out money for it just like I said I would if it got manual controls.

Just want to see where all the awesome is coming from if there's like 10 - 15 good clips out of 1000+ on vimeo in a six month release period.

Ryoni's video -- http://www.vimeo.com/2605789

If there were more properly balanced, well shot, NATURAL looking examples like this I don't think anyone would have an issue stating the MKii's case for image win. This looks outright amazing to me. No Hyper shallow or misaimed out of focus clutches, awesome composition and incredible looking skin tones. And it's resolute as hell even for a compressed file.

I can't stop watching it.

PappasArts
05-29-2009, 02:37 AM
I'm looking for some and I think I've found like... what... three? Four examples?

The rest of the footage online falls into "test" categories. Random people, food, animals and some decently shot landscape. That's okay, but seeing this footage is what put me off from the MKii in the first place. Not to mention 30P on top of that and no Manual Controls until now.

Of all the amazing footage I keep reading about, I've only seen a literal handful of clips that really show what this thing is capable of. Elton's stuff, great example, the shooter Ryoni and his model-- incredible footage, so to the point that the 30P only made it BETTER. That's ME saying that.

Matthew Bennet showed a great narrative example, there's also a well lit dinner scene. Odd to me, but well lit.

I can see that there aren't manual controls yet, but there are manual color profiles and manual white balance. Just about EVERY single clip from current users shows pretty bad/off color balance. Skin Tones are looking much too yellow or pink and pasty, or just plain wrong.

The camera's been out sine late last year. What's the deal? Am I looking in the wrong place?

Don't take this as an attack on the Canon because mines is coming in tomorrow. I shelled out money for it just like I said I would if it got manual controls.

Just want to see where all the awesome is coming from if there's like 10 - 15 good clips out of 1000+ on vimeo in a six month release period.

Ryoni's video -- http://www.vimeo.com/2605789

If there were more properly balanced, well shot, NATURAL looking examples like this I don't think anyone would have an issue stating the MKii's case for image win. This looks outright amazing to me. No Hyper shallow or misaimed out of focus clutches, awesome composition and incredible looking skin tones. And it's resolute as hell even for a compressed file.

I can't stop watching it.

I download that like 5 months ago. Man that's old footage. I projected that on a 13ft screen and it is some of the best I have ever seen from a digital camera any where near this price. Excluding Red and SI cameras. Also consider that's just the 720. The 1080 would be even more sweet; just like the girl....


Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms


Anamorphic DSLR Lens Test Images... links:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1638289&postcount=97
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1637705&postcount=84

Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Pappas/573417404
Myspace:
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts

Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }

.

dadoboy
05-29-2009, 02:37 AM
Uhh.. I think its the girl that's mesmerizing - it didn't blow my socks off.

Dramatic narrative filmmaking requires control over lighting and exposure like no other craft. So I'm sure with the advent of the manual control firmware, there will be a pioneer set of filmmakers that use this for full length feature work. Namely, people like you Kholi. Probably would be good publicity too - you know the articles in Filmmaker magazine about someone making a feature with a Canon DSLR of all things.

I personally wouldnt attempt a feature with it myself, too many things still missing like variable fps and HD-SDI, and all those other negatives we know about. But for narrative shorts, trailers and music videos, I'm sure it can rock.

dracalat
05-29-2009, 02:44 AM
Here a series of commercials with 'soccer' star Iker Casillas. They are short, but it is narrative nevertheless. All shot with the 5D. Sorry about youtube's poor quality, couldn't find them on Vimeo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mILg6VIDqzA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u8pIyWfBcg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-5xjOH7EC8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK0Dj-y_2J8&feature=related

If you speak/read any Spanish, here's an article about the production with comments from the DOP:

http://www.cameraman.es/noticia.asp?ref=1222

dadoboy
05-29-2009, 02:49 AM
Ha ha. Good Catch Dracalat. I really enjoyed those spots.
Good handheld work and liked the wide angle lenses. Nice filmic look, even on youtube :thumbup:

Nice rig too! Guess the wides were with the 24mm.

I didnt know Quentin Tarantino acted in Spanish commercials ;).

Rakesh Jacob
05-29-2009, 02:53 AM
I think, perhaps, a lot of it has to do with the fact that the initial user base is a photography one so it really is just a bunch of "video test" compositions. Also look at the proportion of wedding videos on vimeo for this specific cam; I don't think any other camera even comes close; further recognition of a proportionally large photography base.
As time goes on, and I know you allready know this, the filmmaker base is going to overwhelmingly converge on this new paradigm of video DSLRs. And conversely the video DLRs are going to better serve the requirements of filmmakers.
I am in such a state of bliss at the potential of this market! The 5DmkII and GH1 are 2 great tools that have very different and unique strenghts that are going to be found collectively in the next gen vDSLRs. To me they are both very inticing first offerings.

EDIT: Almost forgot one of the biggest driving forces in visual technology, PORN is going to look amazing in the cumming months!

dracalat
05-29-2009, 03:14 AM
EDIT: Almost forgot one of the biggest driving forces in visual technology, PORN is going to look amazing in the cumming months![/QUOTE]

Hahahaha! I imagine there will be a lot of flesh coming in-and-out-in-and-out-in-and-out of focus.

dadoboy, Quentin is a man of many talents...By the way, those adverts prove that professional work can be done with the 5D with the current firmware. You need to fiddle a bit with the camera, but you can work around it. In fact, in this production their biggest headache (besides the narrow dof for the focus puller) was actually in post production, converting from 30p to 25p. It's time-consuming and can lead to motion problems and other issues. I so wish Canon hadn't forgotten about its PAL customers...

morgan_moore
05-29-2009, 03:22 AM
People are not seeing the tautology (self contradiction)

If you are making drama/advertising/serious corporate , closing a street and paying 5+ people then you are spending big bucks

Bucks of the nature that renting a RED is a really small % of the day cost

The 5d works lovely in that 5 person situation - but why use it when there is something better

Now cut the crew down to one and a Red camera rental can be a significant portion of the day rate of the shoot

Trouble is shooting the 5d alone is super demanding with focus and stability issues, creating a good argument for keeping it simple with an EX1 at the cost of look

So there you go, there is no situation where the 5 is the right tool - apart from moving still lives

Whats on the net - moving still lives

I can see places like india/south america/SA where the man cost day of a unit is so much lower the D will be a hit

I can also see serious productions using it for 'interesting angles' - like someone reaching into a fridge, microwave or glove box

S

dracalat
05-29-2009, 03:49 AM
morgan, are you saying the 5D needs 5 people to operate it? It doesn't look that big on the pictures...And the Red only needs 1 person? No focus puller?!! Wow, that's new!!

No offense, but often, reading your comments I feel like you are one big tautology yourself. I really can't see what you are trying to say. The 5D is a wonderful tool for working in controlled environments, provided you treat it like a real camera and work with a focus puller (call it short films, commercials, pop promos...and even dramas once the new firmware is out). However, it is not a very good camera for fly-on-the-wall style documentaries (but still, I'm sure there will people who will have a go and probably achieve great results).

egzplicit
05-29-2009, 03:50 AM
How about this one:

http://vimeo.com/3948960?pg=embed&sec=

I downloaded the file to fix the resize problem and it looks amazing!

morgan_moore
05-29-2009, 04:03 AM
Controlled multi person environments are expensive - red territory

It seems you need a puller, sound boom and camera op at minimum with the 5d irrelevant of its physical size - to be 'serious' in production values

and as you say its not very good for fly on the wall

No tautology in this thinking

Of course Im taking an extreme viewpoint, there are a thousand uses, cheap(er) corporate and cool indy where the cam may be the 'sweet point' tool I think my sheep brings an interesting look to ultra cheap corporate http://www.vimeo.com/4824319

S

squig
05-29-2009, 04:20 AM
If there were more properly balanced, well shot, NATURAL looking examples like this I don't think anyone would have an issue stating the MKii's case for image win. This looks outright amazing to me. No Hyper shallow or misaimed out of focus clutches, awesome composition and incredible looking skin tones. And it's resolute as hell even for a compressed file.

I can't stop watching it.

sounds like a flipflop to me

Finster
05-29-2009, 05:13 AM
This guy is putting together a music video. This is just a "teaser," but I think it looks pretty sweet!

http://www.gmelliottvideo.com/unbornteaser.mov (http://www.gmelliottvideo.com/unbornteaser.mov)

Rakesh Jacob
05-29-2009, 06:41 AM
This guy is putting together a music video. This is just a "teaser," but I think it looks pretty sweet!

http://www.gmelliottvideo.com/unbornteaser.mov (http://www.gmelliottvideo.com/unbornteaser.mov)

Looks like a cheezy prolife fluff piece with good dynamic range

Finster
05-29-2009, 07:41 AM
My intention wasn't to turn this into a political/moral/whatever debate.

I like the DOF. I know he used a 50mm f/1.2 & 85mm f/1.2. I think he may have also used the 24-70mm f/2.8. All natural lighting.

He did a great job with follow focus on some of those shots. (Edit: I think he's using a RedRock rig).

Overall, I think the colors look good, too.

BradM
05-29-2009, 09:51 AM
I think we will see a lot more narrative stuff if (when ) this camera gets 24frame. The 30 frame stuff just looks odd and cheap even when its production value is high because we are so ingrained to the 30 fps video look from years gone by.

I disagree though... there are gads of great nature and travel clips out there that are not just tests. I guess you just have to like traveling to get something out of those.

txsbluesguy
05-29-2009, 09:53 AM
a friend of mine shot this as a test ...... but it is a narrative

http://www.vimeo.com/4658674

we're doing a 48 hour festival in a week or two we'll see then what we get

Jus10m
05-29-2009, 09:53 AM
That footage looked great! Although it would have been great to see some dialogue in there. I know its a music video of some sort, so that's why there isn't any, but like the original topic for this thread, I still haven't seen any heavy dialogue footage coming from the Mark II.

This may be a bit off topic, but could anyone let me in on how people are rigging these things for Follow Focus?
Meaning, are they attaching an external monitor to the Mark II for the puller to use, or are all these videos made with just some very professional focus pullers measuring before hand and hitting their marks?

Thanks!

Kholi
05-29-2009, 10:23 AM
Uhh.. I think its the girl that's mesmerizing - it didn't blow my socks off.

Dramatic narrative filmmaking requires control over lighting and exposure like no other craft. So I'm sure with the advent of the manual control firmware, there will be a pioneer set of filmmakers that use this for full length feature work. Namely, people like you Kholi. Probably would be good publicity too - you know the articles in Filmmaker magazine about someone making a feature with a Canon DSLR of all things.

I personally wouldnt attempt a feature with it myself, too many things still missing like variable fps and HD-SDI, and all those other negatives we know about. But for narrative shorts, trailers and music videos, I'm sure it can rock.


Yeah I think it's this AND the price of the body with no glass or shooting media. That makes a lot of sense.

Hmmm.

dadoboy
05-29-2009, 11:38 AM
Morgan, it's true that on most feature films with healthy budgets, the camera package is a small % of the total budget. In which case the choice to shoot film or with a fully kitted RED package vs a prosumer camera is not a matter of debate.

But there has been plenty of ultra low budget movies, some of them very successful, that have shot on the dvx100, hvx200 and other DV cameras. Its just a matter of time before we start seeing the 5D in that niche - its advantage being the shallow DOF and interesting image characteristics.

I'm pretty conservative on my camera choices for features - too much is at stake and the speed and demands of shooting two and three week features requires a very reliable no hassle gear and workflow. But there's gunslingers out there who will do it as they want the image qualities and yet have to eek out every drop from their budgets.

Kholi
05-29-2009, 11:42 AM
Morgan, it's true that on most feature films with healthy budgets, the camera package is a small % of the total budget. In which case the choice to shoot film or with a fully kitted RED package vs a prosumer camera is not a matter of debate.

But there has been plenty of ultra low budget movies, some of them very successful, that have shot on the dvx100, hvx200 and other DV cameras. Its just a matter of time before we start seeing the 5D in that niche - its advantage being the shallow DOF and interesting image characteristics.

I'm pretty conservative on my camera choices for features - too much is at stake and the speed and demands of shooting two and three week features requires a very reliable no hassle gear and workflow. But there's gunslingers out there who will do it as they want the image qualities and yet have to eek out every drop from their budgets.

Absolutely. The MKii is not just for a one-man show and really has nothing to do with the size of the production. If there is a certain aesthetic or benefit to the camera, it really doesn't matter how large or small it is.

morgan_moore
05-29-2009, 12:49 PM
...
But there has been plenty of ultra low budget movies, some of them very successful, that have shot on the dvx100, hvx200 and other DV cameras. Its just a matter of time before we start seeing the 5D in that niche - its advantage being the shallow DOF and interesting image characteristics.

Those would be the


..thousand uses, cheap(er) corporate and cool indy where the cam may be the 'sweet point'

examples

.. maybe we cross posted

As someone who employs two people I really consider the cost of people - more than a Red a year each - from that perspective the red is a cheap camera and the 5d virtually free - thats the bunsiness perspective I imagine

The title of the thread is 'where is the narrative' - I think the answer is above/below....


I'm pretty conservative on my camera choices for features - too much is at stake and the speed and demands of shooting two and three week features requires a very reliable no hassle gear and workflow..

S

Lee Wilson
05-29-2009, 01:31 PM
People are not seeing the tautology (self contradiction)


Tautology is not 'self-contradiction', it the stating of the same thing twice, but in differing words - ie: 'He gripped the camera by squeezing it with his hand' - where 'gripped' is already understood as to squeeze with the hand.

morgan_moore
05-29-2009, 01:44 PM
I thought a tautology was a bright red green thing

any way

It would appear there are two meanings one from Boolean Algebra (mine) and also a linguistic one (yours)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology

We are both right :) - lets move on..

S

dadoboy
05-30-2009, 01:02 AM
Oh, I must have missed that post Morgan, excuse me.
Yeah, the RED is pretty cheap right now what with no film costs and telecine - everybody is shooting their features with it now. I'm glad I didn't have the money to buy one when it came out though, shooting with just one camera - the same camera - all the time would be a major drag! So nice to have choices :)

morgan_moore
05-30-2009, 01:44 AM
there are gads of great nature and travel clips out there that are not just tests.

When you take your 5d to the turkey market in marakesh at 5 am in glowing morning light you squeeze off a load of footage with a wide open prime of the old boys at the auction haggling

80% of the footage is out of focus or shaky - the remaining 20% looks utterly fantastic - completely amazing

You use that 20% to make your travelogue and impressive it is too

Back home you have to shoot a corporate, the first shot is a grumpy MD arriving in the car park and walking into the office

The guy is paying you and he has only got five minutes before his first meeting - you want to get it in one take

You grab the EX1 sharpish unless you have balls of steel and hands of silk

Thats the difference between travel and narrative

S

Rakesh Jacob
05-30-2009, 02:19 AM
unless you have balls of steel and hands of silk

Thats the difference between travel and narrative

S

That's where I've been screwing up, I've been doing hands of steel and silky balls!!
Who knew :dankk2:

taubkin
05-30-2009, 07:17 PM
I've been shooting some narrative stuff with it for some time, now. This is what I can show so far:

http://www.puntotjet.com.br

http://www.cocacolazero.com.br/prove

(second is in portuguese only, and the compression kind of ruins it, but the originals are looking great... :) )

But, honestly, for narratives, you can just rent a Red or something else... this thing really shines on docs. Small, great lowlight, looks great in ambient light, gives you different framing choices.

taubkin
05-30-2009, 07:31 PM
When you take your 5d to the turkey market in marakesh at 5 am in glowing morning light you squeeze off a load of footage with a wide open prime of the old boys at the auction haggling

80% of the footage is out of focus or shaky - the remaining 20% looks utterly fantastic - completely amazing

You use that 20% to make your travelogue and impressive it is too

Back home you have to shoot a corporate, the first shot is a grumpy MD arriving in the car park and walking into the office

The guy is paying you and he has only got five minutes before his first meeting - you want to get it in one take

You grab the EX1 sharpish unless you have balls of steel and hands of silk

Thats the difference between travel and narrative

S

I've been saying this for some time now, before the 5Ds or D90, back then, when all we had was a Redrock 35mm adapter and a DVX100.

But with manual controls, you can shoot some pretty cool stuff on it, not only b-roll. And be guaranteed that it will work out. There's a production in the company I work for that is using the 5D exclusively for a 6 week doc shoot. And the material is great.

If a shot is out of focus, you can cut to some well focused coverage from that same scene and deal with it, but when a whole scene just looks like crap and you have to use it because it's never gonna happen again, it hurts sometimes more. There is no rule obviously, and there are some pros and cons to every equipment choice, heck, I, sometimes, still shoot tape.

Lammy
06-15-2009, 12:12 PM
You're right Kholi, it's harder to find Canon 5d MkII Narrative pieces than it is dinosaurs...

Jackson Miller
06-15-2009, 02:18 PM
Hmmmm. Can't you just stop down to make it easier to focus? I am starting to get worried. I am just about ready to get one, and now I am reading people think it isn't usable for narratives.

cjwolff
06-15-2009, 03:05 PM
Hmmmm. Can't you just stop down to make it easier to focus? I am starting to get worried. I am just about ready to get one, and now I am reading people think it isn't usable for narratives.

I'd like to know the answer to this as well. Is there any reason I can't expect the following to hold true?

Focal length 18mm
f/5.6 : DOF from 4.44 feet to 40.6 feet
f/8 : DOF from 3.75 feet to infinity
f/11 : DOF from 3.07 feet to infinity
f/16 : DOF from 2.45 feet to infinity
f/22 : DOF from 1.9 feet to infinity

Focal length 28mm
f/5.6 : DOF from 6.01 feet to 11.9 feet
f/8 : DOF from 5.45 feet to 15 feet
f/11 : DOF from 4.82 feet to 23.6 feet
f/16 : DOF from 4.14 feet to 122.4 feet
f/22 : DOF from 3.45 feet to infinity

Focal length 55mm
f/5.6 : DOF from 7.38 feet to 8.74 feet
f/8 : DOF from 7.14 feet to 9.09 feet
f/11 : DOF from 6.84 feet to 9.63 feet
f/16 : DOF from 6.45 feet to 10.5 feet
f/22 : DOF from 5.98 feet to 12.1 feet

Kholi
06-15-2009, 03:11 PM
You can certainly stop down to match DOF characteristics, FOV can be controlled my choosing appropriate lenses.

You just have to be aware of what happens when you stop down, concerning lens abberations, performance, overall changes to image aesthetic, color reproduction, and of course light.

If you have to stop down to match an S35 spec (I would suggest using slower glass to begin with) then it's not all that much "fast" anymore. Of course, you can and will probably use higher ISO's, which now you must reconsider the impact of those on the iimage.

In short, yes you can, but you should find out what it does to your overall image before committing.

William_Robinette
06-15-2009, 03:15 PM
Hmmmm. Can't you just stop down to make it easier to focus? I am starting to get worried. I am just about ready to get one, and now I am reading people think it isn't usable for narratives.

Because currently everyone is super obsessed with strapping on a f/1.4 50mm and shooting WFO.

You don't (normally) shoot that way for narrative. Of course creative decisions aside, if I was shooting a narrative piece (dollys/jibs/actors moving) then I would want to be anywhere from f/4 to f/8, and you have much more room to work with there. This camera seems so sensitive that shooting stopped down isn't a problem.

Also remember a lot of people that will pump out footage from the 5D will probably not have the budgets from great locations or a competent art department. And we all know the simplest solution to these problems is to blur the background out so much so the viewer cannot tell.

cjwolff
06-15-2009, 03:25 PM
This is narrative-ish

http://www.vimeo.com/4605235
http://www.vimeo.com/3995746