VoltaicHD One Step Pulldown - GOOD NEWS

[Isaac_Brody]

Last week I got in touch with Justin over at Shedworx and mentioned the desire for filmmakers to have the option to use inverse pulldown in VoltaicHD. They quickly implemented inverse pulldown into VoltaicHD and it will be available in the next few days. So a much easier one step workflow will be available for both Mac and PC with no need for using JES. I've tried it and it works.

Stay tuned. :beer:

[Isaac_Brody]

Reserved for workflow

[Barry_Green]

Does it properly reverse out the chroma from the interlaced 4:2:0 recording?

[Isaac_Brody]

Yes, it properly reverses out the chroma. It doesn't do any chroma interpolation to 4:2:2 like neoscene. I've requested this feature for encoding to prores but don't know yet if they can implement this.

[SonicStates]

Barry, What are you thinking for your work flow in Edius (given that there are lots of exciting developments in transcoding etc)?

Issac, I might have said it before but you are a champ!!!

[Barry_Green]

I'm intrigued by the idea that CanopusHQ can easily remove pulldown, so I might go with that. I haven't played with native 1080/24p-over-60i in EDIUS as-is, so it might already be there from native AVCHD files and I just don't know it.

[AdrianF]

I just put a 50p clip through Voltaic, which was uploaded by QTI http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=171355
Changing the preferences to expert settings and then outputting the clip at 50p ( I went to Photo Jpeg ), gave a perfect slow motion in one step. I had tried this with one of the 60p clips and it seemed to work. I don't know if this is something that anybody else has tried to do yet, but it seems like an alternative way to me, to get slow motion very quickly.

[QTI]

I just downloaded the trial version of Voltaic.

I didn't choose the expert mode or any other mode, and my clip also came out as a perfect slow motion in one step - in fact I can't get a clip in normal speed. What should I do? I have already used 4 of the 10 trials permitted...

[AdrianF]

I didn't choose the expert mode or any other mode, and my clip also came out as a perfect slow motion in one step - in fact I can't get a clip in normal speed. What should I do? I have already used 4 of the 10 trials permitted...

Is this happening to the 1080 clips too? If it's just happening to the 720 clips then maybe try exporting the two types separately. Unfortunately, the only way I can see that this works is by changing the export options in preferences and typing in the frame rate for export along with the codec you choose. I'm just trying this method out, so I could be missing something.

[QTI]

No its only happening to the 720 clips and not the 1080 clips, and I don't know what to change in the export options (I tried setting output to 25fps and the clip became unplayable).

[squig]

I had the same problem, I actually thought it was recorded that slow until I saw this thread. I've used up my 10 conversions so I can't troubleshoot it now. I've noticed that neo scene has been making some changes to the black background of your stormtrooper source file. I've been discussing this with David from cineform. Your file link was down so I've put it on megaupload for the cineform guys to have a look at.

[squig]

the new version of VLC player plays back the mts files on a mac.

[QTI]

Thanks squig

Yes all the links are down as Dropbox stopped them for "excessive usage" so thanks for passing them on to Cineform.

There are visibly more artifacts when the MTS clips are played on VLC than the files converted from Neo Scene which I have also just downloaded to test (which look much cleaner and smoother).

Re slow in Voltaic - may be worth mentioning that only the video was slowed but the sound was played at normal speed.

[squig]

I noticed there's some visible artifacts showing on the back of the macbook lid on the mts source file. I'm interested how it would look if it was shot with mjpeg.

[AdrianF]

the new version of VLC player plays back the mts files on a mac.
Cheers,I will give this a go for playback.

Problems I have had with Voltaic are: Quitting on my MBP when exporting to Pro Res?? I've tried this on another computer and it's no problem. Also with QTI's clips I have seen some major blocking when exporting out to the default AIC, with Photo Jpeg for example it's very clean. The 10 export demo for Voltaic is a bit limiting IMO, I know it's only 40 bucks, but they should really extend this a little more as I feel they've got a good product that deserves a bit more time.

[squig]

yeah I didn't notice I had only 10 exports until I'd used most of them and I'm not done testing. Might be your OS doesn't play well voltaic. I'm running 10.5.6. I'd stick to prores and avoid AIC unless you have a particular need for it.

VLC will play the files but they're not pretty

[timbook2]

yeah I didn't notice I had only 10 exports until I'd used most of them and I'm not done testing. Might be your OS doesn't play well voltaic. I'm running 10.5.6. I'd stick to prores and avoid AIC unless you have a particular need for it.

VLC will play the files but they're not pretty

Good to know that the software follows the requests. Since this baby is going to sell like warm bread, they can all only profit from updating their softw.

I am still waiting for my PAL version to hit the shops in Europe and will thus have no need for pulldown but without this forum I wouldnt be able to make the decisions and know that the workflow of avchd will improve as well.
:beer:

[AdrianF]

Voltaic and Flamingo HD together look like a good alternative to FCP log and transfer if on Mac. It's good to have options, this way you're free to work with whatever you like for editing and post. I'm starting to think that an hdmi real time capture from the camera playback could work and be relatively quick also ( maybe using cineform for the capture codec ). I'm looking at getting the matrox mxo mini, so will have to try this when I finally get the camera.

QTI, for 720 25p, in preferences try this; enable advanced export settings, choose your quicktime codec say pro res, select frame rate at 25, click ok. In the main window open the 720 files you want at regular speed and convert. This worked for me.

[Isaac_Brody]

The new version of VoltaicHD should be up this Tuesday and it has auto pulldown built in so it should work for the GH1, Canons, and other Panasonic flavors of 24P.

[Isaac_Brody]

VoltaicHD for Mac with Pulldown removal just went up. Great low cost affordable solution to pulldown removal.

http://www.shedworx.com/voltaichd

[justin-shedworx]

I had the same problem, I actually thought it was recorded that slow until I saw this thread. I've used up my 10 conversions so I can't troubleshoot it now. I've noticed that neo scene has been making some changes to the black background of your stormtrooper source file. I've been discussing this with David from cineform. Your file link was down so I've put it on megaupload for the cineform guys to have a look at.
I've seen that the demo restriction may be a bit tight for advanced users, so we'll update the demo limit on the next release of VoltaicHD (Mac and PC).

[QTI]

Thanks for the update.

I just downloaded 1.8.5 (just released?). The demo restriction seem to be the same? And I am still having the slow motion problem. Would this be fixed in the next release? After this test I only have 3 conversions left and I don't think I have enough success to decide to buy it. If that's fixed and slow motion (which looks very nice) is a feature than it would be very attractive to me.

[Isaac_Brody]

Hey QTI, I have your footage, what are you trying to do? I can test PAL coversions for you. Are you converting your 1080 footage and it's turning into slomo?

[QTI]

Many thanks Isaac for your help. Just trying to convert 720 50p footage and its turning into slomo using the default options. I tried manually setting it to 25fps in the advanced option and the clip was unplayable.

1080 clips are totally fine.

[Martti Ekstrand]

I've tried a couple of QTI's shots in Voltaic. What happens with the 720 files is that the 50p stream in the AVCHD file is output to the video track as 25p making it slo-mo while the audio track comes out at original duration. I fixed it in FCP by de-linking video and audio, speeding the video to 200% and then re-linking which works but is a tad kludgy. Don't know if that's possible in iMovie.

A radio-button in Preferences to make the re-coding skip every second 50p frame would be good. Guess ditto for 720/60p material, haven't tried how that works. Just for the love of Crom don't make it interlace 50p into 50i / 60p into 30i!

[Isaac_Brody]

Ah, well it sounds like it's actually interpreting the footage correctly right? The 720P setting is slowmotion no? I'll try adjusting some settings under prores.

[Martti Ekstrand]

I guess the absolutely correct way to interpret would be metatagging the resulting QuickTime file's video track with 50 fps, not 25 and thereby keeping the audio in sync.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Yes, it properly reverses out the chroma. It doesn't do any chroma interpolation to 4:2:2 like neoscene. I've requested this feature for encoding to prores but don't know yet if they can implement this.
Isaac am I missing something re not going to ProRes - I just select adanced, QT, options, and ProRes in Voltaic. Is it FauxRes or something due to fake chroma interpolation or something?
Thanks.

[GMC]

Dear Isaac,

I've just downloaded the demo version 2.3 of voltaic HD for PC (Vista), but under "preferences" I cannot find the "remove pulldown" option (as described on the homepage). Is this a restriction of the demo version?

Thanks for your help.

best regards, Gunther

[Isaac_Brody]

Ah, reason being that pulldown removal is only available on the Mac side at the moment. They're adding it to PC. Let me shoot them an email to see when it will be ready.

[justin-shedworx]

We've got the VoltaicHD for PC in beta testing right now with the 24p pulldown (and a few other things). We should have it released later this week.

If you would like to try out the Beta, here it is:
http://download.shedworx.com/voltaicpc/beta/setup_v233.exe


Let us know how you get on

Thanks

[Isaac_Brody]

Thanks Justin.

[GMC]

Dear Justin,

thank you for posting the beta - version. I've tested the conversion today with GH1 1080i60 to 24p and it works very nicely, using "auto detection" in the preferences. Just some observations:

(1) "pixel peeping" through the footage there is some visible quality loss when converting to *.wmv, a bit less obvious when converting to *.avi - it seems that there is some "sharpenig" effect going on which leads to stair stepping / aliasing. Only noticable in regions of high contrast - reminds me of entry level camcorders which try to mimic higher resolution by in - camera sharpening. The original AVCHD footage does not show that. By the way, the already hugely discussed aliasing effect of the GH1 to me seems like a postproduction problem. Again, I don't see it in the original footage.

(2) 720p60 footage is slowed down to 29.97 (only video, not the audio).

(3) Shedworxs homepage states that the converted file size is about four times the original AVCHD file size - at least with the demo version this is not true. My 1080i60 footage converted to 24p in *.wmv leads to ~20% bigger file size, converted to *.avi to ~40% bigger file size. Is this a limitation of the demo version and could this explain the observed quality loss stated in (1)?

(4) In general an option for (a) framerate and (b) desired bitrate would be helpfull, also to avoid the problem stated in (2)

Imported to Premiere CS3 without any problem. Under "preferences" there also was a quicktime option - is this going to be motion - JPG? I could not test it because I ran out of conversions (only 10 - not enough to thorougly test the beta version).

Finally, I think the above observations, especially (1) and (2) seem like easy fixes, hence I will immediately buy your product once everything is fixed.

If you like me to do more tests, I would be happy to do so but at the moment I've used up all 10 conversions.

best regards,

Gunther

[timbook2]

I gotta say that shedworx has made a good converter and is run by a bunch of cool folks!
I got voltaic and my pal footage is being converted correctly, a bit slow but intermediate codec.
I wish it worked ProRes. When I try the advanced options its not working...still testing though....

[justin-shedworx]

I wish it worked ProRes. When I try the advanced options its not working...still testing though....

This is supposed to be all fine using the Advanced options. ProRes should show up as an available codec. We don't actually have Final Cut Pro on our test bench, so have relied on others to test this for us in the past.

[justin-shedworx]

Thanks for taking the time to test all this Gunther.


(1) "pixel peeping" through the footage there is some visible quality loss when converting to *.wmv, a bit less obvious when converting to *.avi - it seems that there is some "sharpenig" effect going on which leads to stair stepping / aliasing. Only noticable in regions of high contrast - reminds me of entry level camcorders which try to mimic higher resolution by in - camera sharpening. The original AVCHD footage does not show that. By the way, the already hugely discussed aliasing effect of the GH1 to me seems like a postproduction problem. Again, I don't see it in the original footage.


We will check the quality settings again to make sure we're getting maximum quality through the conversion.



(2) 720p60 footage is slowed down to 29.97 (only video, not the audio).


Raised this as a bug. We will investigate and ask for a sample.



(3) Shedworxs homepage states that the converted file size is about four times the original AVCHD file size - at least with the demo version this is not true. My 1080i60 footage converted to 24p in *.wmv leads to ~20% bigger file size, converted to *.avi to ~40% bigger file size. Is this a limitation of the demo version and could this explain the observed quality loss stated in (1)?


This is an oversight on our part. We streamlined the PC conversion process and dropped the bitrate, etc. We'll update the site as we re-check bitrates and so on.



(4) In general an option for (a) framerate and (b) desired bitrate would be helpfull, also to avoid the problem stated in (2)


We've been thinking about this also. Its not quite as simple as setting a bitrate, but we can look into a low-medium-high idea for output quality. We will also look at framerate options.

Thanks again for the input. Input from the big end of town helps us make a better product for Pros and consumers alike.

[Orchidthief]

So I gave the demo a try and I'm having a minor problem. Footage I'm getting is either coming out to the wrong framerate or is giving me slow motion. Any ideas why? My footage was shot in 720p60.

[justin-shedworx]

So I gave the demo a try and I'm having a minor problem. Footage I'm getting is either coming out to the wrong framerate or is giving me slow motion. Any ideas why? My footage was shot in 720p60.

Is that on Mac or PC?

If you could send us a sample of the 720/60p MTS file we will have a look

Thanks

Justin

[Barry_Green]

Justin, when can we expect to see GH1 24p pulldown removal in the Windows version of VoltaicHD?

[justin-shedworx]

Justin, when can we expect to see GH1 24p pulldown removal in the Windows version of VoltaicHD?
Hi Barry,

we were going to release it today, but hit a minor audio processing bug during testing. We won't release it until next week now. The Beta link above is for the latest build, which contains 24p pulldown.

[Ken7]

Justin, I think I see the audio glitch you're talking about. Audio is lagging the video in my testing.

[AdrianF]

Justin,
I finally registered Voltaic HD and have started to test it a little more and there does appear to be a timing problem with 720 50 material, as others have said. I have tried exporting using standard settings ( ie: AIC ) and also using advanced settings, both to Pro Res and Photo Jpeg. Each conversion I have tried has resulted in slow mo versions being created, whether I wanted them or not. The only way I have so far been able to get around this, is by setting the framerate in the codec settings window to 12.5fps. This results in the correct speed and look I would expect from 25p, but with the second half of the clip as a freeze frame. Here is what I have tried so far and the results, from a 720 50p.mts:

Pro Res: framerate set to current or 25. Results in a ( nice looking ) slow mo, with the clip being twice the original duration.
Pro Res: framerate set to 50. Results in a 1/4 speed slow mo, of exactly the same duration as the method above, therefore only converting half the clip.
Pro Res: framerate set to 12.5. Speed and motion look correct, but the second half of the clip is a freeze frame. Again the duration of the clip is twice that of the original.
Photo Jpeg: All of the above methods, with the same results.
Advanced settings off: AIC, again creating a slow mo clip
(When I initially tried the software a few weeks ago, I didn't have this problem with Photo Jpeg. I can't remember the settings I used at the time, but think that I left framerate untouched )
No problems at all with 1080 25, converts absolutely fine, just takes a little longer.

As I thought that this could just be connected to the file I was using I tried using Voltaic as a regular converter like streamclip. I exported a 720 25p Photo Jpeg clip to h.264. Oddly when I set the framerate to 25 in the codec settings dialogue, it resulted in a file that played at the same duration as the original, but at twice the speed, with the second half being a freeze frame. When I set to frame rate to current, all was well.

I'd like to make a couple of suggestions too, that I think would make this, combined with Flamingo HD, very useable ( at least for Mac users ).
In Voltaic at the moment, there is no way of changing the export settings of each clip, without going into preferences, which is a global action. If export settings could be changed on a per clip or per batch basis, then it might speed up workflow. For example, say I have a batch of clips to encode with a mixture of 1080 25, 720 50 and 720 50 that I wanted as slow mo. Currently I would have to import only the clips at this stage that I wanted for each export setting, finish this session and then reset preferences to start the next batch. Obviously the same would be true for US/Japanese frame rates.

Also, looking at the details on Flamingo HD, I can't see a method for tagging clips with take notes, reel, keywords etc., which could then form part of a searchable library. This feature, coupled with Voltaic using export settings, could make the duo a really good alternative to FCP/FCE log and transfer, with a much more versatile library management system for camera originals.

Mods: Sorry for hijacking this sticky, please move the post if you think it shouldn't be here.

[321 rollem]

If you want to view your mts files you can always use Splash player located http://www.mirillis.com/

[guva]

Whats the benefits when using Photo-JPEG? I´m not really satisfied with ProRes or AIC when I´m CCing.

[AdrianF]

Now i've had a bit more time to play with this, i've answered one of my questions.

FOR EU/PAL USERS: If you want regular speed 25p from your 720 you need to check faster conversions (experimental) in preferences. This also cuts the encoding time to be at least as fast as FCP log and transfer, if not a little quicker.
I've only tried this going to Photo Jpeg and so far had zero problems and clean looking files. Will try again today with other codecs and will report back if I have any problems.


Whats the benefits when using Photo-JPEG? I´m not really satisfied with ProRes or AIC when I´m CCing.
I use Photo Jpeg a lot as it's very easy to edit on any system and the output from conversion is usually reliable. If you're doing super critical colour work maybe try cineform?

[e-steve]

Would love to see in the beginning of this thread, optimal settings for Voltaic and the GH1 (for 24p and 60p, etc)...

1) Do most people use Advanced Settings and ProRes?
2) Export at 24p checked I assume for 1080p?
3) Inverse Telecine Mode... leave as Autodetect? For my HFS 10 footage I had to use Type 2 for best results.

I probably can look elsewhere in other forums about managing AVCHD footage, but how do people log and manage their files as their filenames are just numbered? Are there any best practices for this (I am new to this workflow coming from having 500 tapes shot on DVX100 and HV20 and logging them in FCP).

Any insights would be greatly appreciated!

As always, this forum has been such a great resource since I began shooting 5 years ago.

[justin-shedworx]

Justin,
I finally registered Voltaic HD and have started to test it a little more and there does appear to be a timing problem with 720 50 material, as others have said. I have tried exporting using standard settings ( ie: AIC ) and also using advanced settings, both to Pro Res and Photo Jpeg. Each conversion I have tried has resulted in slow mo versions being created, whether I wanted them or not. The only way I have so far been able to get around this, is by setting the framerate in the codec settings window to 12.5fps. This results in the correct speed and look I would expect from 25p, but with the second half of the clip as a freeze frame. Here is what I have tried so far and the results, from a 720 50p.mts:

Pro Res: framerate set to current or 25. Results in a ( nice looking ) slow mo, with the clip being twice the original duration.
Pro Res: framerate set to 50. Results in a 1/4 speed slow mo, of exactly the same duration as the method above, therefore only converting half the clip.
Pro Res: framerate set to 12.5. Speed and motion look correct, but the second half of the clip is a freeze frame. Again the duration of the clip is twice that of the original.
Photo Jpeg: All of the above methods, with the same results.
Advanced settings off: AIC, again creating a slow mo clip
(When I initially tried the software a few weeks ago, I didn't have this problem with Photo Jpeg. I can't remember the settings I used at the time, but think that I left framerate untouched )
No problems at all with 1080 25, converts absolutely fine, just takes a little longer.

As I thought that this could just be connected to the file I was using I tried using Voltaic as a regular converter like streamclip. I exported a 720 25p Photo Jpeg clip to h.264. Oddly when I set the framerate to 25 in the codec settings dialogue, it resulted in a file that played at the same duration as the original, but at twice the speed, with the second half being a freeze frame. When I set to frame rate to current, all was well.


Thanks for all the info. We've just found the problem and have a fix in place. We'll send you a Beta to confirm in a day or two. The GH1 actually shoots at 50 fps in 720p mode, whereas the small AVCHD Lite cameras shoot in 50p, which was confusing our detection functions.

Thanks for the FlamingoHD/VoltaicHD suggestions. I've responded to them on the Shedworx forum.

[AdrianF]

Cheers, I look forward to trying it out. I've been using the app quite a bit in place of log and transfer in fcp, and apart from these few issues seems to be working ok.

[Tameside]

Hi, I've just been trying it and the 720p/50 to 25p wmv seems to not work, is there an issue still or has it been resolved, those 10 conversions get used up quick. The quality in pal looks indistinguishable from avc but the timing-sound syn seem a bit all over the place. Has this been resolved becasue I'd like to use it and give it a go.

[Barry_Green]

Shedworx (makers of Voltaic) are asking for suggestions for features to be implemented in a big revision for version 2.0.

If you have feature requests, head on over to their site at http://shedworx.com/vhd-20

[Tameside]

Maybe they could stary by making the existing version work before moving onto another. The existing does not convert 50p to 25p, for me this a bit of a problem as the output is continually 50p or slo-mo. Have downloaded the beta too, honestly voltaic is not that good! pc platform btw.

[Barry_Green]

Be sure to tell them, as only they can fix it.

[justin-shedworx]

Our developers released new betas last week for both versions of Voltaic with the 50fps/60fps fix (amount other things).

While I haven't personally tested the PC version, the output should be 50fps, WMV. Mac version is fine with 50fps Quicktime output.

Here's the link:
http://download.shedworx.com/voltaicpc/beta/

We appreciate the feedback, even if its not always positive :)

[Rabot]

Happy to have buyed Voltaic HD, don't stop making good product.

[menace3000]

unfortunatly Voltaic keeps on crashing on my G5.
Strange, it does convert 720p with slow shutter less than 30 which was shot with a Canon FD, same setup with the kit lens it crashes the moment i start to convert. Tried all sort of settings, nothing helps. Tried the 1.87 beta but still crashing. Any ideas, or well, even alternatives to using Voltaic?
This whole slow shutter thing is bugging me but I need that material to work!
thx

[Tim Joy]

One time, I had a clip that would not convert without crashing, also on G5. Have you tried other clips?

The 1.87 beta has been running flawlessly for me, also on a G5 OS 10.4 latest.


I only wish I could convert the 24p and 60p stuff in the same batch without having to switch prefs. At least you can see in the preview pane which is which by the frame size.

[menace3000]

it does not convert any of the long shutter speed clips i shot with kit lens. fd lens fine.
I can play the clips in camera though. maybe the cam writes some sort of meta-data which confuses voltaic?

[tony240sx]

I am just wondering if I am doing things right. I have the trial version and the first few tests at 1080 to 24p have resulted in a lesser quality image. I first ran the footage through log and transfer on fcp6 into prores. The footage looks sharp and the colors are pretty vibrant but there is horrible interlacing. When I take that footage and run it through Compressor with the settings Issac Brody suggested the footage seems to hold up really well. Colors and sharpness look basically identical but now it is 24p and the interlacing is gone,(although the file size is HUGE).
When I ran the same native clips through Voltaic the final 24p project looks worse. It is less vibrant and definitely softer. Is this normal or is there something I am doing wrong? Anyone else have the same results? I am just wondering if Voltaic is just a simple one step solution but at the cost of image quality. Thanks.

[Tameside]

Did you set to highest quality/ plus what o/p did you get wmv?

Also, give xillisoft a shot too. Lots more options with xillisoft. try the ultimate download

[tony240sx]

I set to the highest quality. I chose output as quicktime movie and under settings, chose Prores HQ.

[trefork]

I am just wondering if I am doing things right. I have the trial version and the first few tests at 1080 to 24p have resulted in a lesser quality image. I first ran the footage through log and transfer on fcp6 into prores. The footage looks sharp and the colors are pretty vibrant but there is horrible interlacing. When I take that footage and run it through Compressor with the settings Issac Brody suggested the footage seems to hold up really well. Colors and sharpness look basically identical but now it is 24p and the interlacing is gone,(although the file size is HUGE).
When I ran the same native clips through Voltaic the final 24p project looks worse. It is less vibrant and definitely softer. Is this normal or is there something I am doing wrong? Anyone else have the same results? I am just wondering if Voltaic is just a simple one step solution but at the cost of image quality. Thanks.
Did you choose Auto for Inverse Telecine? If I do that, I get interlaced output too. I tried all 4 and one of them worked for me (type 2 for Canon HF200).

[Bungess]

I USE VOLTAIC BUT I DON'T USE "ADVANCED EXPORT SETTINGS". AM I MISSING OUT ON USING A FORMAT THAT'LL HOLD UP TO MORE ALTERATIONS IN POST? OR AM I 'DOIN IT RIGHT?'.

I other words, how do you get the best results when using voltaic to trascode MTS files for use in FCP?

I only get good results (for both 1080 and 720) when I leave all the settings alone and simply hit "start" (using "export as 24p).

It pumps out a file format called "Apple Intermediate Format". I have no idea what this format is.

Is this as good as Pro Res 422 that many have recommended to use?

Whenever I use the "advanced settings" in Voltaic, I end up with inferior footage. It's either interlaced (even though the settings claim it'll be progressive) or there are other "wobbly" anomalies.

So, should I keep exporting without using advanced settings? or am I missing out on a format that allows for a more flexible post experience (like pro-res 422)?

thanks!
Scott Jenson

[Bungess]

So I found out that voltaic's output format is like HDV. I'll keep researching to get more answers to my questions.
Taken from their FAQ:

"What is the output format?

The final format is a HDV 1080i formatted Quicktime movie, encoded using the Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC). This is the format used by Apple when dealing with Sony's older HDV format.

Is there any quality loss in the conversion?

No. We have compared out output to Apple's and both look great.

There is a loss in the audio formats though. AVCHD records 5.1 Dolby Digital (6 channels). We have had to drop back to 2 channels (stereo) on the conversion. Be aware that Apple also does this in their AVCHD import."

[justin-shedworx]

Voltaic's default output codec is AIC. This is the preferred codec for iMovie and Final Cut Express.

The preferred codec for Final Cut Pro is ProRes. I'm not a film professional, so I can't tell you the benefits of ProRes over AIC. To my untrained eye, they look the same. I've edited in FCP using AIC and ProRes422 and couldn't tell the difference in editing performance or final transcoding to the destination format (AppleTV for me).

FYI, we have two things on our 'Pro Features' roadmap for after our VoltaicHD 2.0 release:
- 6 channel audio (from 5.1 surround AC3) in the output file
- 4:2:2 choma interpolation for ProRes422 output

Our FAQ is a bit out of date. HDV has nothing to do with AIC! Sorry about that :)

[adys]

Sorry to bump the thread, but it can help other guys too.
Was nice if was sticky like the rest of the pulldown solutions.

I just got the NTSC GH1, and I bought the VoltaicHD version 2.3 revision 0.5.

I am converting and importing to Avid Media Composer 3.

I read the full thread and I can't find all the settings you all talking about. where is the advance setting??

Just want to make sure:
Where is the "pull down" settings?

Are those the settings for pulldown removal in fullhd footage?

http://adyshimony.com/images/v.jpg

Justin, if you can say a few words about the settings, I will be thankful.

The user guide is not updated
http://www.shedworx.com/voltaichd-user-guide-pc#3

Thanks,

Ady.

[ajamils]

The Deinterlacing option is what removes the pull down (export as 24p).

[adys]

Thanks

2 more questions :

1.what is the timeline settings (in avid)?
Should I create a new project for 1080p/24P or 1080/23.976?

2.why when opening my files in VoltaicHD I see that the frame rate of the 1080P files are 29.97? (They are Full Hd Files for sure) is this is cause they are 60i (or to be accurate - 59.94) ?

[justin-shedworx]

Sorry to bump the thread, but it can help other guys too.
Was nice if was sticky like the rest of the pulldown solutions.

I just got the NTSC GH1, and I bought the VoltaicHD version 2.3 revision 0.5.

I am converting and importing to Avid Media Composer 3.

I read the full thread and I can't find all the settings you all talking about. where is the advance setting??

Just want to make sure:
Where is the "pull down" settings?

Are those the settings for pulldown removal in fullhd footage?

http://adyshimony.com/images/v.jpg

Justin, if you can say a few words about the settings, I will be thankful.

The user guide is not updated
http://www.shedworx.com/voltaichd-user-guide-pc#3

Thanks,

Ady.

Thanks for the heads-up. We've updated the user guide now.

The 24p pulldown mode will auto-detect the 24p mode (there are many!) used by your camera in most cases. We have recently updated our 24p algortihm to detect the corect type all of the time, so the options list will disappear in the next release of VoltaicHD for PC.

[adys]

Thanks

So for the output from VoltaicHD Should I create a new project for 1080p/24P or 1080/23.976?

[justin-shedworx]

Thanks

So for the output from VoltaicHD Should I create a new project for 1080p/24P or 1080/23.976?

Good question. Here's the maths behind 24p pulldown...

On the camera 24 progressive frames per second are saved to disk using a 60i signal. 60i means 60 FIELDS per second using the NTSC frame rate of 29.97.

So, 60i is 29.97 frames per second held in 59.94 fields per second. 60i is interlaced, so this is 59.94 half frames per second.

The 24p video is saved into this 59.94 signal as A1:A2:B1:B2:B2 where A is the first frame, B is the second frame and A1 is the first half of frame 1, A2 is the second half of frame 1 and so on.

So we have two frames of 24p stuck in the encoding sequence of A1:A2:B1:B2:B2. You can see from this that 2x24p frames are held in 5 fields running at 59.94 fields per second.

59.94 / 5 * 2 = 23.976

What this means is that 24p shooting using NTSC cameras is really 23.976 shooting.

You should probably set your project to 24p as that is what it is generally known as.

Hope that helps. Here is our 24p article on the Shedworx web site:
http://shedworx.com/hd-information/24p

Justin

[adys]

Justin, thanks for your response.

Actually, in Avid Media Composer there are many kind of projects:

I have 1080/24P and I have also 1080/23.976P.

So I will choose the 23.976.

I am not sure how I am going to bring external sound that recorded on pal, but that is another story...

[d1rockwild]

Just bought Voltaic today. Tried to import 60i24p from my GH1 into Volatiac and got this message:


Error: Unable to parse input file (file path). Please make sure the file is a valid video file.

Could not find a part of the path 'c:\windows\temp\thumbnail'.

These are .MTS files from the GH1. 1080p60i24p.

I've tried re-importing the gh1 footage onto my computer, importing directly from the GH1, clicking and dragging, same message.

Help!

[mojo43]

I am not using Voltaic, but if I were you I would create that folder and make sure that the correct security rights are assigned. Maybe your OS is installed on a different drive other than C: and voltaic doesn't know that?

[d1rockwild]

ha. i changed the temp folder location last night and it worked. You're right, my os is not on the C drive.

But now my footage is very stuttery/jittery in premiere. It's like, visually hicupping and falling out of sync with the audio. What preset are people using to edit with? Because the clips say they are 23.98 fps, and the timeline i have, under the AVCHD format is 23.976. Don't know if that makes a difference.

[Bigmagic]

I bought VoltaicHD yesterday, exported my first 24p footage to Premier looks pretty good. So far I'm impressed.

[PhilJackson]

Yeah, I've been using it for a couple weeks (Windows) and it's worked great so far.

[VeEuzUKY]

I recently got my GH1 and am in the process of figuring out the best workflow for editing. Because this camera shoots 1080/P24 but the files are stored in a 1080/60i envelope and Reverse Telecine is needed to convert the footage from 60i to 24P for editing, this is actually a nightmare.


I run a Windows XP machine and so far I tried NeoScene (that everyone raves about it and it sucks worth of endless interlacing artifacts while the files generated are ridiculously too big), also tried TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress (one of my favorite Windows apps ever made for Video conversion/ basic editing) but I don't seem to get a correct setting for proper 24P output, and finally I tried VoltaicHD 2that many people and reviewers say it's not so good but is BY FAR the best and easiest to use in my opinion.


I have version 2.36 that I get acceptable results and also a trial of 2.5 but need to update my system to .NET Framework 4, which I didn’t do yet because I DREAD updates and my computers all now with NET Framework 3.5 work like a charm. Has anyone tried 2.5 and comment on the actually improvements?


One thing I've noticed is that the files generated from VoltaicHD (into WMV in my case) are actually NOT 24fps but 23.98fps. Is this right? And if so when editing, do I output the project as 24P or 23.98 Progressive? Im extremely confused by the issue of frame rates…



Thanks for the input:):):)

[Chris Light]

you left out one detail. what editor do you use?

23.976 is the exact framerate most "24p" enabled consumer cameras (regardless of 60i package)record progressive footage at. that's a start...

[VeEuzUKY]

you left out one detail. what editor do you use?

23.976 is the exact framerate most "24p" enabled consumer cameras (regardless of 60i package)record progressive footage at. that's a start...
Hey Chris, thanks:)

Im using Sony Vegas Pro 9.0 because its the one running faster and with the best workflow for me, plus it handles AVCHD natively really well.

Currently my workflow is shoot, convert to 24p with VoltaicHD (usually to WMV whcih is what gives me better image quality at high bitrates) and then I edit in Sony Vegas Pro 9.0. If its just basic trimming or sometimes for final Mastering and clean-up (Noise Reduction, resize, etc.) I use TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress which is positively one of the most fabulous video apps ever written.

[VeEuzUKY]

OK, so I made the plunge and actually installed the modded firmware that enables higer bitrate and direct 24p recording, ITS AMAZING!!!

This this is night and day, no more conversions needed, the image is breathtaking. Forget about more conversions and all the 60i to 24p crap.


!

Ill shoot some stuff tomorrow and post some videos:)

[adys]

I am having trouble to convert 720 60P with VoltaicHD in any configuration.

The output file is playing the image 3 times faster and then the pic freeze until the end of the movie (the original clip time).

The sound plays good as the original movie.

in Pal mode (50P) this is not happening.

Any Idea?

[rjk2000]

Hopefully, this hasn't been posted yet (I did a search). I'm using the GH1 hack firmware, filming with 24p in a 60i wrapper (C settings). When doing a custom convert from the settings (converting from MTS to ProRes), the footage looks good, but the audio drifts and goes out of sync eventually, after about say, a minute. The audio was directly from the camera. I don't think the hack should affect using VoltaicHD -- but I'm wondering if using the 60i wrapper, then deinterlacing and removing pulldown in Voltaic to ProRes, is this audio drift "normal"? Is there a setting I'm missing? Thanks.

[reggietelly]

Can someone tell me the advantage of using Voltaic over the traditional Log and Capture in FCP. I usually shoot 720p 50 which can be dropped on a 25p timeline fine. I can also take my 50p file duplicate it and then open in Cinema Tools and convert to 25p. The resulting file when dragged onto a 25p timeline plays in perfect half speed, along with the half speed audio. I have also started to shoot FHD 25p (50i wrapper) and it looks fine when I import into FCP. I haven't ticked native as it always crashes when I do a tripod stress test.

On the site there is no mention of the pulldown from 50i to 25p, it's just 60i to 24p. Is this available in Voltaic HD

So really just need to know what Voltaic brings over Log and Transfer. I guess you might have a larger choice of codecs. Pro res works well for me though

all the best

Richard

[Lynchenstein]

For the recent DVXVillainFest I shot on my un-hacked GH1 using 1080p/24. I used a combination of camera audio with a Rode VideoMic and an h4n - I found both audio sources quite usable.

However, when I converted the AVCHD to WMV/24p using VoltaicHD on my 64-bit Win7 workstation, the audio from the camera was out right from the start on the converted file while it was perfectly in sync on the original file. I noticed that the longer the clip the farther out the sound was. Longer clips were more than a second out. It was a fairly easy fix in Vegas to re-sync the audio (and once re-synced it stayed in sync) but it was rather annoying. The video quality of the converted file was very good.

Is this common? Read through this entire thread looking for an answer, but no luck. Has anyone found this or is it unique to me?

Thanks in advance.

[aresens]

For the recent DVXVillainFest I shot on my un-hacked GH1 using 1080p/24. I used a combination of camera audio with a Rode VideoMic and an h4n - I found both audio sources quite usable.

However, when I converted the AVCHD to WMV/24p using VoltaicHD on my 64-bit Win7 workstation, the audio from the camera was out right from the start on the converted file while it was perfectly in sync on the original file. I noticed that the longer the clip the farther out the sound was. Longer clips were more than a second out. It was a fairly easy fix in Vegas to re-sync the audio (and once re-synced it stayed in sync) but it was rather annoying. The video quality of the converted file was very good.

Is this common? Read through this entire thread looking for an answer, but no luck. Has anyone found this or is it unique to me?

Thanks in advance.

This happens to me as well, always have to resync audio after using voltaichd. I have read of voltaic's forums where other people have complained about this and they just say it works on their end so it must be our problem. Not really the answer I went looking for. Isn't a huge issue as most of the time I have second audio anyway but you're right, it is annoying and time consuming. So I guess I'm just saying yes, happens to me too.